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Real Time Evolution “Happening Under Our Nose”

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A couple of weeks ago a friend forwarded me a link to this recent article about “ongoing research to record the interaction of environment and evolution” by University of California, Riverside biologist David Reznick. Reznick’s team has been studying adaptive changes in guppies. Reznick’s work focuses on tracking what happens in real-world situations in the wild, rather than the somewhat artificial environments in the lab. As a result, Reznick has gathered some of the more trustworthy and definitive data about changes over time in a real-world environment, largely free from the intervention and interference of the coated lab worker.

The article states:

The new work is part of research that Reznick has been doing since 1978. It involved transplanting guppies from a river with a diverse community of predators into a river with no predators – except for one other fish species, an occasional predator – to record how the guppies would evolve and how they might impact their environment.

In the recent follow-up research, Reznick’s team studied “how male color pattern affected” their differential survival in the environment. Significantly, the team even gathered DNA from the guppies over time to track who their parents were and reconstruct a guppie pedigree to help determine the reproductive success. Without going into all the details, which are interesting in their own right, the key point for my purposes today is that this adaptive change occurred extremely quickly.

Graduate student, Swanne Gordon, noted,

Our research shows that these fish adapted to their new habitats in less than one year, or three to four generations, which is even faster than we previously thought.

Reznick adds,

People think of evolution as historical. They don’t think of it as something that’s happening under our nose. It is a contemporary process. People are skeptical; they don’t believe in evolution because they can’t see it. Here, we see it. We can see if something makes you better able to make babies and live longer.

What Really Happened?

Now normally when my friend forwards a link, I will just review the article, realize it is making claims beyond the data, and move on. But coincidentally, just days earlier I had been reading Chapter 7 of Lee Spetner’s 1998 book, Not by Chance!

Part of Spetner’s argument is that many adaptive changes we see in nature are in fact not examples of a Darwinian process of chance changes + natural selection, but instead the result of specific programming capabilities in the organism to allow it to respond to changes in the environment. Indeed, what caught my eye about the article my friend forwarded is that Spetner had discussed Reznick’s earlier experiments in that very context.

After describing two different predators of the guppies: (i) the cichlid, which prey on large mature guppies; and (ii) the killfish, which prey on small immature guppies, Spetner continues:

Reznick and his team took 200 guppies from the Aripo [river in Trinidad] and put them in a tributary of the river that is home to the killfish but has no cichlids and had no guppies. Changes soon appeared in the newly introduced guppies. The fish population soon changed to what would normally be found in the presence of the killfish, and Reznick found the changes to be heritable.

The full change in the guppy population was observed as soon as the first samples were drawn, which was after only two years. One trait studied, the age of males at maturity, achieved its terminal value in only four years. The evolutionary rate calculated from this observation is some ten million times the rate of evolution induced from observations of the fossil record [Reznick et al. 1997].

Reznick interpreted these changes as the result of natural selection acting on variation already in the population. Could natural selection have acted so fast as to change the entire population in only two years?

Spetner goes on to argue that the adaptive change observed in the guppies is more likely the result of a programmed response to environmental change, and provides several examples of such changes in other species.

Where is the Darwinian Evolution?

Darwinian evolution, as we know, is supposed to work by natural selection weeding out random variation. The Neo-Darwinian model has traditionally gone a step further, suggesting that those random variations are genetic in nature — taking place in the DNA as a copying error here, a misplaced sequence there, an accidental cut-and-paste elsewhere . . .

So the question arises: do the kinds of rapid, adaptive, reversible changes Reznick observed owe their existence to this kind of Darwinian process, or are they the result of a pre-programmed genetic response to environmental changes?

Spetner makes a good argument that we are observing the latter. He goes on to show that even many of the classical examples of Darwinian evolution — you know, the examples of random mutation + natural selection that even most evolutionary skeptics have tended to accept: convergent “evolution” of plants in similar environments, the “evolution” of bacteria to live on lactose or salicin — are not good examples of Darwinian evolution at all. Even that icon of icons, finch beaks in the Galapagos, is likely not a good example of the alleged Neo-Darwinian mechanism of random mutation + natural selection.

All of this prompts me to ask a simple, but pointed, question:

How many good examples are there of Darwinian evolution?

The more research I do the more I come to the same conclusion Spetner did, namely that most adaptive changes are not the result of the random, purposeless changes Darwinian evolution posits as the engine of biological novelty.

Even skeptics of the grand evolutionary claims tend to accept, either specifically or implicitly, that Darwinian evolution can produce all kinds of minor adaptive changes, the so-called microevolutionary changes: variations in finch beaks, insect resistance to insecticides, coloration of peppered moths, and so on. And indeed, the “selection” side of the formula seems to work well, which is simply the somewhat pedestrian observation that if an organism is poorly adapted to its environment it has a poor chance of surviving.

Yet the engine of the novelty, the alleged random variation that is supposed to provide all this adaptive variability on which selection can work its magic, seems stubbornly absent. Even these most common of examples, on closer inspection, do not support the Darwinian claim. Thus the doubts multiply. If Darwinian evolution cannot even claim explanatory credit for things like bacteria being able to metabolize lactose, what can it explain? The more closely we look, the more anemic the Darwinian claim becomes.

Now we could be intellectually lazy and call every adaptive change we observe an example of “evolution.” But the problem with observing a change and claiming that we have observed “evolution” is that (i) we rob the word of explanatory value if it is applied indiscriminately, and (ii) we trick ourselves into thinking we have an explanation for what occurred, when in fact we have have no idea what is happening at the molecular level or the organismal level to produce the change. Claiming that we are witnessing “evolution” in such circumstances becomes then not so much an explanation as a confession of ignorance.

Real Darwinian Evolution

There are no doubt quite a number of legitimate, confirmed examples of random mutation + natural selection producing an important biological effect. For example, I think Behe’s review of malaria/sickle cell trait is a legitimate example of Darwinian evolution in action. And the circumstances of that example are rather telling: (a) large population size, (b) meaningful amount of time, (c) very strong selection pressure, (d) and change that can be caused by one or two single-point mutations.

If we see adaptive change outside of these parameters — small population, short timeframe, an adaptation that requires significant genetic change — we might be better served to suspect that we are witnessing a programmed adaptive response, rather than Darwinian evolution. And rather than being naively impressed with the great power of Darwinian evolution to act more rapidly than anticipated, we should be prompted to look deeper to find what is actually taking place.

Your Turn

In addition to the malaria/sickle cell example, what other examples of legitimate, confirmed Darwinian evolution can you think of?

Comments
WD400: How many times to I have to say that this is an example of evolution by natural selection, acing on standing variation.
I take it then, that by "standing variation", you simply mean to say that the 'selected' gene variant was already present in the ancestral population. In other words, there is no novelty at the genetic level. Why don't you admit that? When asked, why don't you simply answer: "I'm talking about option (iii), mr. Anderson"?
Eric Anderson: (iii) there was no novel genetic change that arose and no epigenetic change that arose,* and so all we are dealing with is a shift in the population due to “natural selection.” In this case (a) the first part (the important part) of the evolutionary story is missing and unsupported, (b) no prominent evolution skeptics have an issue with the idea of differential survival anyway, (...) * For the love of clarity and to help put this to rest, please do not refer to a shift in gene frequencies in the population as a novel genetic change. We’re talking about actual novel change arising within an organism or organisms here, not some fluctuation in a statistical measure across a population. If you think the genetics existed in at least one organism in the original pool in the first place, then you are in (iii).
Box
October 17, 2015
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What Popperian assumes here is robustness of all sorts of “primitive replicators”. What the materialist routinely fails to take in account is that a robust organism — an organism that doesn’t fall apart — is something that their position cannot explain at all.
Again, low fidelity replicators would not be well adapted for the purpose of replication. They are like the rock Paley finds in a field, which serves a purpose but does not need the same sort of explanation as the watch. They do not exhibit the appearance of design as clarified William Paley. From the paper The constructor theory of life
The second point is that natural selection, to get started, does not require accurate self-reproducers with high-fidelity replicators. Indeed, the minimal requirement for natural selection is that each kind of replicator produce at least one viable offspring, on average, per lifetime - so that the different kinds of replicators last long enough to be “selected” by the environment. In challenging environments, a vehicle with many functionalities is needed to meet this requirement. But in unchallenging ones (i.e. sufficiently unchanging and resource-rich), the requirement is easily met by highly inaccurate self-reproducers that not only have no appearance of design, but are so inaccurate that they can have arisen spontaneously from generic resources under no-design laws - as proposed, for instance, by the current theories of the origin of life [11, 31]. For example, template replicators, such as short RNA strands [32], or similar “naked” replicators (replicating with poor copying fidelity without a vehicle) would suffice to get natural selection started. Since they bear no design, they require no further explanation - any more than simple inorganic catalysts do.(11)
Popperian
October 17, 2015
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How many times to I have to say that this is an example of evolution by natural selection, acing on standing variation. If you want direct tests of the randomness of mutation there are plenty of studies for that. If you accept mutation is random then if follows the standind variation is the result of a random process. If you think these are not random mutations then you are left to explain how these fish are inducing mutations that will be adaptive in a future environment they don't know they are being transported to. You seem to be confused about what mutations are in the other comment -- instead of playing games do you want to say what non-random genetic changes (that aren't mutations?) do you have in mind?wd400
October 17, 2015
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wd400: What's this "other paper"? Do you have a link?PaV
October 17, 2015
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wd400: A tautology is a tautology. It doesn't matter what the paper is, or what they propose to do next. It is an error in logical thought.PaV
October 17, 2015
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wd400 @264: Let's cut to the chase. This is very simple. There are only three possibilities: (i) a novel genetic change arose within 1-2 years, in which case we are not dealing with random, Neo-Darwinian evolution; (ii) there was an epigenetic change that arose within 1-2 years, in which case we are not dealing with Neo-Darwinian evolution; (iii) there was no novel genetic change that arose and no epigenetic change that arose,* and so all we are dealing with is a shift in the population due to "natural selection." In this case (a) the first part (the important part) of the evolutionary story is missing and unsupported, (b) no prominent evolution skeptics have an issue with the idea of differential survival anyway, and (c) even if we give away the store and assume a Neo-Darwinian origin for the genetics in the first place, the observations still do not demonstrate the larger claims of "evolution," which are the real issue. Please tell us, which is it -- (i), (ii) or (iii)? ----- * For the love of clarity and to help put this to rest, please do not refer to a shift in gene frequencies in the population as a novel genetic change. We're talking about actual novel change arising within an organism or organisms here, not some fluctuation in a statistical measure across a population. If you think the genetics existed in at least one organism in the original pool in the first place, then you are in (iii). Update: I see that Box already tried pinning this down multiple times. Please do read his question @274 carefully. Thanks,Eric Anderson
October 17, 2015
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wd400 @266:
I forgot to reply to the question about randomness of mutations. There is no evidence that mutations are anything other than random with respect to fitness, despite many experiments on this topic.
Thanks. I will do a brief post on this (hopefully within a week or two). Just so that we are clear and you don't later try to squirm out of what you wrote above, let me remind you what the question was. It was not about "mutations" it was about "genetic change." We can easily define a "mutation" as something non-purposeful, unexpected, random by definition. As I said, I don't have a problem with that viewpoint of a "mutation" and am happy to agree that mutations are random with respect to fitness. The question is: "Are you saying that no organisms are known to make non-random genetic changes in response to environmental change?"Eric Anderson
October 17, 2015
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Natural selection is a result. And as a result of natural selection allele frequencies change.Virgil Cain
October 17, 2015
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Oops. Wrong attribution above. Mung: Is natural selection the cause or the effect? Something can be both cause and effect. Natural selection is the effect of fecundity and differential reproductive potential. Natural selection causes changes in the distribution of traits in a population.Zachriel
October 17, 2015
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Zachriel:
We can also observe natural selection and adaptation.
Evidence please.
There is nothing known about a living organism which is contrary to physical theory.
The genetic code is contrary to physical theory as there aren't any physical processes that can produce a code. Also life is not reducible to physical processes.Virgil Cain
October 17, 2015
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Andre: What evidence? You could start here: http://molbio.mgh.harvard.edu/szostakweb/ EugeneS: Biological evolution is a property of living systems by definition. Sure. The scientific endeavor is to unify theories of biology and chemistry. EugeneS: Life is more than replication as it also includes metabolism, reaction to stimuli and nobody knows what else. Extant life includes many features that may have emerged after life began. Eric Anderson: First of all, let’s be very clear: natural selection is not a force. It is a label. 'Air pressure is not a force. It's a label for the effect of stochastic motion of gas molecules.' Eric Anderson: Observing that natural selection occurred doesn’t tell us anything about how the variation came about in the first place. That is the part of the theory that needs to be supported. That's right. Darwin pointed to artificial selection to show the amount of novel variation that is possible. Eric Anderson: Neo-Darwinian theory can explain some things. Minor things. Epidemiology is hardly a minor thing, at least to humans. Eric Anderson: What do you think was actually going on in individual guppies — what was occurring at the genetic or the epigenetic level? See Ghalambor et al., Non-adaptive plasticity potentiates rapid adaptive evolution of gene expression in nature, Nature 2015. Eric Anderson: And what, pray tell, produced the landscape? At least part of that landscape is due to basic physics; fusion on the Sun, rotation and revolution of the Earth, the collection of water in basins, rain, snow, ice, the formation of land, etc. Other aspects of the environment are biological organisms themselves, including competitors. Eric Anderson: Are you proposing that there is some force that creates a particular environment so that creatures can develop toward a concrete direction? Light comes from above. Eric Anderson: Or can we acknowledge, as we should, that the environment itself is essentially a random result. The environment is hardly random. While chaotic, it's highly structured. Light comes from above. Eric Anderson: And what “trajectory” should that organism take once in that environment? Larger/smaller, faster/slower, feathers/scales, and and on. There is no directionality anyone can point to. Grow upwards little tracheophyte, grow upwards! Eric Anderson: Every rational person doubts that random changes by themselves are up to the task? Not to worry — tada! Natural Selection to the rescue! 'Every rational person doubts that random molecular motions by themselves are up to the task of filling the corners of a vacuum chamber. Not to worry — tada! Gas pressure to the rescue!' Eric Anderson: Is natural selection the cause or the effect? Something can be both cause and effect. Natural selection is the effect of fecundity and differential reproductive potential. Natural selection causes changes in the distribution of traits in a population. Steve: Again, this statement is meaningless without excess reproduction, which is NOT the result of evolution. Excess reproduction is a natural consequence of binary fission. Eric Anderson: Recombination and drift are real processes. We can also observe natural selection and adaptation. Box: A bag of chemicals with countless chemical interactions, which remains dynamically robust (stable) is incomprehensible from the point of view of physics. There is nothing known about a living organism which is contrary to physical theory.Zachriel
October 17, 2015
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Poperian:
The first primitive replicators do not need to exhibit highly accurate replication when starting out because they only have to compete with other low accuracy replicators.
What "first primitive replicators"? Please be specific and show your work.Virgil Cain
October 17, 2015
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wd400:
I forgot to reply to the question about randomness of mutations. There is no evidence that mutations are anything other than random with respect to fitness, despite many experiments on this topic.
Random with respect to fitness is a nonsense phrase. With evolutionism all mutations are HAPPENSTANCE, ie accidents, errors and mistakes. Also James Shapiro has produced evidence that organisms initiate the mutations. Work that was started by Barbara McClintock. The SOS response is such and initiated response. Transposition is also initiated by the organism to repair damaged DNA. The bottom line is people who say "random with respect to fitness" are either ignorant or dishonest.Virgil Cain
October 17, 2015
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Popperian: The first primitive replicators do not need to exhibit highly accurate replication when starting out because they only have to compete with other low accuracy replicators.
What Popperian assumes here is robustness of all sorts of "primitive replicators". What the materialist routinely fails to take in account is that a robust organism — an organism that doesn't fall apart — is something that their position cannot explain at all. I already addressed this point in #64, but it is very important IMO. Allow me to quote Barham again.
How can living systems be so robust (dynamically stable), when they consist of thousands of chemical interactions that must all be coordinated precisely in time and space? From the point of view of physics, cells (not to speak of more complex organisms) should not exist, and yet they do. How is that possible? The only suggestion Darwinism has to offer is chance: those systems that just happened to be stable are the ones that we see today.
A bag of chemicals with countless chemical interactions, which remains dynamically robust (stable) is incomprehensible from the point of view of physics. Why doesn't it fall apart, while it does not contain one single part which, of itself, is interested in the continued existence of the bag of chemicals? Only occasionally materialists give some indication that they are aware of the problem.
Dawkins: But, however many ways there may be of being alive, it is certain that there are vastly more ways of being dead, or rather not alive. You may throw cells together at random, over and over again for a billion years, and not once will you get a conglomeration that flies or swims or burrows or runs, or does anything, even badly, that could remotely be construed as working to keep itself alive. [my emphasis]
It's not entirely clear, but Dawkins seems to be (also) talking about the basic ability of "not falling apart", which is far more miraculous than being able to fly, swim and so forth. Out of the enormous collection of bags of chemicals that do fall apart chance has to find ones that don't. By definition, chance does so unaided by natural selection, since natural selection only acts on bags of chemicals that don't fall apart; before they replicate. Only after chance has found a few of these improbable bags of chemicals that don't fall apart, natural selection extends a "helping hand" by eliminating most of them.
(...) it has been estimated that 99.9% of all species that have ever lived on Earth are now extinct.
The assumption of an easy to find sheer endless variety of robust forms is critical to the Darwinian concept of a constructive natural selection. If one takes into account that robustness is a miracle and extremely hard to find, then one must conclude that natural selection is a tremendous hindrance to evolution.Box
October 17, 2015
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WD400: You’ve already been told that the guppies example has been shown to be a genetic change.
By "genetic change" do you mean: 1) a genetic change in the fish population as a whole, in the sense that, due to natural selection, there has been a numerical change towards more individual orange guppies. However there is no new DNA code produced. 2) a genetic change in the sense that we find (or expect to find) new code in the guppy DNA. New code that was not present in any of the members of the ancestral population.Box
October 17, 2015
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Popperian What other low accuracy replicators? Care to show them or are you again speculating?Andre
October 17, 2015
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Popperian What primitive replicators? Care to show us these primitive ones or are you just speculating?Andre
October 17, 2015
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@EugeneS The first primitive replicators do not need to exhibit highly accurate replication when starting out because they only have to compete with other low accuracy replicators. Furthermore, while Pailey's solution ruled itself out, he did clarify what it means for something to exhibit the appearance of design. Low accuracy replicators are not well adapted for the purpose of replication. They are like Pailey's rock, which does not exhibit the appearance of design. As such, they do not need the same kind of explanation as the the watch.Popperian
October 16, 2015
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@Eric Anderson#260
This is not a philosophical discussion. The usage of terms goes to the heart of what is being claimed, particularly when a term is regularly thrown out as some kind of explanation for this or that observation. Recombination and drift are real processes. We can observe them, even calculate and map them to some extent. The other one you threw in there — “selection” — is not a process. I would be happy to avoid a usage discussion if people would stop using the term as though it is a force, as though it is a cause, as though it imparts some directionality to what would otherwise be a random process.
Actually, it a philosophical discussion. Popper's theory of the universal growth of knowledge is Darwinian in nature. Specifically, knowledge is variation controlled by criticism. And it's universal in that it refers to the growth of knowledge in books, brains and even genomes. Nor is it limited to knowing subjects. In the case of biology, natural selection plays the role of criticism. One thing that Paley clarified was what it means for something to have the appearance of design. Specially, the rock can serve many purposes, but is not well adapted to do so. It can be a paper weight, building material, a weapon, store heat, etc. And it could still serve those purposes just as well even if it was modified significantly. However the watch is a rare configuration of matter. If its key parts are modified even a little it would perform the purpose of keeping time significantly less well. It is not a raw material. Nor could have it have always been lying there in its current state. It is well adapted to serve a purpose. As such, it requires a different kind of explanation than the rock. But how does it get well adapted? From a comment in another thread...
the features of organisms are the result of a set of instructions which describe what transformations of raw materials should occur to bring them about when a copy is made. We might not understand exactly how those instructions interact with each other due the complex way they are mediated by other instructions, but it's those instructions that bring about those particular features none the less. IOW, the concrete biological features of organisms are the result of the kind of transformations that occur when the requisite knowledge is present there. So the origin of those features is the origin of those instructions. Right? That's what needs to be explained.
The appearance of design can be explained because the growth of human knowledge, which human beings use to solve design problems, can be explained. This is in contrast to assuming design is an immutable primitive that cannot be explained, or the philosophical idea that knowledge comes from authoritative sources, which we've already rejected in the vast majority of spheres. For example, we have discarded the idea of the divine right of kings to rule. What we are really concerned with ideas people hold, not their sources. I can exhibit the intent to create a drug for the purpose of curing cancer, but unless the requisite knowledge of how to actually kill just cancer cells without killing the patient is actually present, the problem will remain unsolved. "That's just what some designer must have wanted" is insufficient because it doesn't explain the origin of that knowledge.Popperian
October 16, 2015
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Amazing Natural selection has all the attributes we would assign to a concious being. Direction, sensitivity, desicion making... Are you guys confusing nothing with something?Andre
October 16, 2015
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wd400:
There is no evidence that mutations are anything other than random with respect to fitness, despite many experiments on this topic.
So?Mung
October 16, 2015
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DNA sun protection: Researchers observe one of the world's fastest chemical reactions for the first time - October 16, 2015 Excerpt: Our DNA contains the bases adenine, guanine, cytosine and thymine. The chemists used ultra short blasts of light to shoot base pairs guanine and cytosine which were stimulated with UV light. They were only able to reveal the protective molecular mechanism using this method of femtosecond spectroscopy, because the process happened within a few quadrillionths of a second. During the so-called electron-driven proton transfer process (EDPT), a hydrogen atom is displaced within the molecular compound. The base pair, however, immediately returns to its original starting structure from the same procedure. "Nature uses the reaction to strengthen the DNA's resistance to light by orders of magnitude -- it is sort of a sun protection for DNA,",, "The DNA building blocks themselves thereby relieve, (the work load on), the cells' hugely complex and very slowly active repair mechanisms using enzymes. The discovery of these enzymes this year was awarded the Nobel Prize for Chemistry. Without the passive processes we observed, the cells' active repair mechanisms would be completely overloaded," http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151016084856.htm
bornagain
October 16, 2015
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I forgot to reply to the question about randomness of mutations. There is no evidence that mutations are anything other than random with respect to fitness, despite many experiments on this topic.wd400
October 16, 2015
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wd400:
Selection very obviously imparts directionality too.
No, it doesn't. Direction is direction towards something or some outcome. It is end directed. It is teleological. Darwinian selection is non-teleological. Therefore it does not and cannot impart directionality.Mung
October 16, 2015
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I can't imagine a definition of force that includes drift by excludes selection. Selection very obviously imparts directionality too. You're own comment sure make it sounds like you are interesting in the randomness of mutation
serving that natural selection has taken place and triumphantly pronouncing that we are witnessing “evolution” is but an exercise in equivocation. We can’t just ignore the critical first part of the RM+NS equation.
You've already been told that the guppies example has been shown to be a genetic change. That you and the rest of the choir above keep going on about this paper (that you haven't read) is pretty clear evidence that skeptics do have a problem with this sort of result, I would have thought.wd400
October 16, 2015
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wd400:
What prevents non-designed systems from reproducing at above the replacement rate?
The fact that non-designed systems capable of reproduction don't actually exist might pose a barrier. Do you have some evidence for these non-designed reproductive systems?Mung
October 16, 2015
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wd400:
Apart from this particular hang up you seem to be OK with evolution as explained by mainstream evolutionary biology?
If "mainstream" means "Darwinian" then no. Is Darwinism no longer mainstream?Mung
October 16, 2015
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Mutations are magically random.Mung
October 16, 2015
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wd400 @256:
First-year philosophy discussion about what “force” means are about the least interesting thing I can imagine. We call selection, recombination, drift and the rest of them evolutionary forces because they change the trajectories of populations through time. If we want to argue about usage then I’m not interested.
This is not a philosophical discussion. The usage of terms goes to the heart of what is being claimed, particularly when a term is regularly thrown out as some kind of explanation for this or that observation. Recombination and drift are real processes. We can observe them, even calculate and map them to some extent. The other one you threw in there -- "selection" -- is not a process. I would be happy to avoid a usage discussion if people would stop using the term as though it is a force, as though it is a cause, as though it imparts some directionality to what would otherwise be a random process.
If you are interested in experiments about the randomness of mutation then wild populations of animals is not hte place to look. Start at Luria-Delbruk and move on.
What makes you think I disagree with the randomness of mutations? I am more than happy to assume that mutations are random (largely, speaking). There is a lot of interesting research pointing to non-random genetic change, but I'm happy to treat "mutations" as essentially random.
I still don’t know why you think sickle cell is definately a random mutation but think perhaps these fish and see guess what’s coming(?) and use some unknown biological process to create adaptive mutation.
Two things. First, with sickle cell we can point to a couple of single point mutations, coupled with the other characteristics I have outlined above. I am willing to agree, willing to stipulate, that Neo-Darwinian evolution can produce an effect like the malaria/sickle cell situation. But by all means, if it turns out not to be a case of random mutation, then we have even fewer cases of the already shrinking examples of legitimate Neo-Darwinian evolution. (I've been asking for other clear examples, but haven't had any takers yet.) Second, if there was a functional change in the guppies at the genetic level in the course of a year or two, we are likely not talking about random genetic change, and therefore not Neo-Darwinian evolution. Furthermore, if there was no genetic change, but there was an epigenetic change, then, again, this does not reflect Neo-Darwinian evolution, but rather an epigenetic response to the environment. Finally, if the genetics were there all along and all we had was some "natural selection" going on, then it isn't anything particularly controversial nor interesting. I take it, although you seem to be avoiding Box's question, that you think the latter, namely that the genetic variation was already there in the population at the outset. Fine. Then what Reznick has is a case of run-of-the-mill differential survival in a new environment. Interesting observations to be sure. But nothing that confirms the RM part of the evolutionary claim, nothing that evolution skeptics would object to in the first place, nothing that demonstrates the broad truth of "evolution" as Reznick thinks. ----- (BTW, you seem to be very skeptical about non-random genetic change. Are you saying that no organisms are known to make non-random genetic changes in response to environmental change?)Eric Anderson
October 16, 2015
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Again, this statement is meaningless without excess reproduction, which is NOT the result of evolution. Why do you think this? What prevents non-designed systems from reproducing at above the replacement rate? What do you think would happen in to an allele for increased reproduction in a population where all individuals not carrying that allele where simply replacing themselves? Apart from this particular hang up you seem to be OK with evolution as explained by mainstream evolutionary biology?wd400
October 16, 2015
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