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Real Time Evolution “Happening Under Our Nose”

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A couple of weeks ago a friend forwarded me a link to this recent article about “ongoing research to record the interaction of environment and evolution” by University of California, Riverside biologist David Reznick. Reznick’s team has been studying adaptive changes in guppies. Reznick’s work focuses on tracking what happens in real-world situations in the wild, rather than the somewhat artificial environments in the lab. As a result, Reznick has gathered some of the more trustworthy and definitive data about changes over time in a real-world environment, largely free from the intervention and interference of the coated lab worker.

The article states:

The new work is part of research that Reznick has been doing since 1978. It involved transplanting guppies from a river with a diverse community of predators into a river with no predators – except for one other fish species, an occasional predator – to record how the guppies would evolve and how they might impact their environment.

In the recent follow-up research, Reznick’s team studied “how male color pattern affected” their differential survival in the environment. Significantly, the team even gathered DNA from the guppies over time to track who their parents were and reconstruct a guppie pedigree to help determine the reproductive success. Without going into all the details, which are interesting in their own right, the key point for my purposes today is that this adaptive change occurred extremely quickly.

Graduate student, Swanne Gordon, noted,

Our research shows that these fish adapted to their new habitats in less than one year, or three to four generations, which is even faster than we previously thought.

Reznick adds,

People think of evolution as historical. They don’t think of it as something that’s happening under our nose. It is a contemporary process. People are skeptical; they don’t believe in evolution because they can’t see it. Here, we see it. We can see if something makes you better able to make babies and live longer.

What Really Happened?

Now normally when my friend forwards a link, I will just review the article, realize it is making claims beyond the data, and move on. But coincidentally, just days earlier I had been reading Chapter 7 of Lee Spetner’s 1998 book, Not by Chance!

Part of Spetner’s argument is that many adaptive changes we see in nature are in fact not examples of a Darwinian process of chance changes + natural selection, but instead the result of specific programming capabilities in the organism to allow it to respond to changes in the environment. Indeed, what caught my eye about the article my friend forwarded is that Spetner had discussed Reznick’s earlier experiments in that very context.

After describing two different predators of the guppies: (i) the cichlid, which prey on large mature guppies; and (ii) the killfish, which prey on small immature guppies, Spetner continues:

Reznick and his team took 200 guppies from the Aripo [river in Trinidad] and put them in a tributary of the river that is home to the killfish but has no cichlids and had no guppies. Changes soon appeared in the newly introduced guppies. The fish population soon changed to what would normally be found in the presence of the killfish, and Reznick found the changes to be heritable.

The full change in the guppy population was observed as soon as the first samples were drawn, which was after only two years. One trait studied, the age of males at maturity, achieved its terminal value in only four years. The evolutionary rate calculated from this observation is some ten million times the rate of evolution induced from observations of the fossil record [Reznick et al. 1997].

Reznick interpreted these changes as the result of natural selection acting on variation already in the population. Could natural selection have acted so fast as to change the entire population in only two years?

Spetner goes on to argue that the adaptive change observed in the guppies is more likely the result of a programmed response to environmental change, and provides several examples of such changes in other species.

Where is the Darwinian Evolution?

Darwinian evolution, as we know, is supposed to work by natural selection weeding out random variation. The Neo-Darwinian model has traditionally gone a step further, suggesting that those random variations are genetic in nature — taking place in the DNA as a copying error here, a misplaced sequence there, an accidental cut-and-paste elsewhere . . .

So the question arises: do the kinds of rapid, adaptive, reversible changes Reznick observed owe their existence to this kind of Darwinian process, or are they the result of a pre-programmed genetic response to environmental changes?

Spetner makes a good argument that we are observing the latter. He goes on to show that even many of the classical examples of Darwinian evolution — you know, the examples of random mutation + natural selection that even most evolutionary skeptics have tended to accept: convergent “evolution” of plants in similar environments, the “evolution” of bacteria to live on lactose or salicin — are not good examples of Darwinian evolution at all. Even that icon of icons, finch beaks in the Galapagos, is likely not a good example of the alleged Neo-Darwinian mechanism of random mutation + natural selection.

All of this prompts me to ask a simple, but pointed, question:

How many good examples are there of Darwinian evolution?

The more research I do the more I come to the same conclusion Spetner did, namely that most adaptive changes are not the result of the random, purposeless changes Darwinian evolution posits as the engine of biological novelty.

Even skeptics of the grand evolutionary claims tend to accept, either specifically or implicitly, that Darwinian evolution can produce all kinds of minor adaptive changes, the so-called microevolutionary changes: variations in finch beaks, insect resistance to insecticides, coloration of peppered moths, and so on. And indeed, the “selection” side of the formula seems to work well, which is simply the somewhat pedestrian observation that if an organism is poorly adapted to its environment it has a poor chance of surviving.

Yet the engine of the novelty, the alleged random variation that is supposed to provide all this adaptive variability on which selection can work its magic, seems stubbornly absent. Even these most common of examples, on closer inspection, do not support the Darwinian claim. Thus the doubts multiply. If Darwinian evolution cannot even claim explanatory credit for things like bacteria being able to metabolize lactose, what can it explain? The more closely we look, the more anemic the Darwinian claim becomes.

Now we could be intellectually lazy and call every adaptive change we observe an example of “evolution.” But the problem with observing a change and claiming that we have observed “evolution” is that (i) we rob the word of explanatory value if it is applied indiscriminately, and (ii) we trick ourselves into thinking we have an explanation for what occurred, when in fact we have have no idea what is happening at the molecular level or the organismal level to produce the change. Claiming that we are witnessing “evolution” in such circumstances becomes then not so much an explanation as a confession of ignorance.

Real Darwinian Evolution

There are no doubt quite a number of legitimate, confirmed examples of random mutation + natural selection producing an important biological effect. For example, I think Behe’s review of malaria/sickle cell trait is a legitimate example of Darwinian evolution in action. And the circumstances of that example are rather telling: (a) large population size, (b) meaningful amount of time, (c) very strong selection pressure, (d) and change that can be caused by one or two single-point mutations.

If we see adaptive change outside of these parameters — small population, short timeframe, an adaptation that requires significant genetic change — we might be better served to suspect that we are witnessing a programmed adaptive response, rather than Darwinian evolution. And rather than being naively impressed with the great power of Darwinian evolution to act more rapidly than anticipated, we should be prompted to look deeper to find what is actually taking place.

Your Turn

In addition to the malaria/sickle cell example, what other examples of legitimate, confirmed Darwinian evolution can you think of?

Comments
Zachriel, Again, this statement is meaningless without excess reproduction, which is NOT the result of evolution. Excess reproduction precedes evolution. Therefore, evolution is a sub-component of design. The random nature of variation is a designed object, that allows organisms to meet any challenge from the environment. The environment puts a pitcher on the mound that throws a mean curve. Organisms respond by changing the lineup with a slew different batters, each using a different batting strategy, at least one of which will hit the ball out of the park BEFORE their 3 outs have been used. Design is the team (and strategy), evolution the scorekeeper (and batboy).
True, however, the claim is not false. When you have replication with variation, you have evolution. Whether adaptation occurs depends on the fitness landscape.
Steve
October 16, 2015
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WD400: post evolution by natural selection — multiple generations of selection acting on heritable variants to create a change such that the most members of the population have a phenotype that no member of the ancestral is likely to have had.
Are you saying that it is likely that this changed phenotype — "that no member of the ancestral is likely to have had" — is due to new genetic or epigenetic information? Or is there no new information at the molecular level? Stop building the suspense already.Box
October 16, 2015
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Well, EA, very briefly. First-year philosophy discussion about what "force" means are about the least interesting thing I can imagine. We call selection, recombination, drift and the rest of them evolutionary forces because they change the trajectories of populations through time. If we want to argue about usage then I'm not interested. If you are interested in experiments about the randomness of mutation then wild populations of animals is not hte place to look. Start at Luria-Delbruk and move on. I still don't know why you think sickle cell is definately a random mutation but think perhaps these fish and see guess what's coming(?) and use some unknown biological process to create adaptive mutation. Of course the the process I'm talking about in that post evolution by natural selection -- multiple generations of selection acting on heritable variants to create a change such that the most members of the population have a phenotype that no member of the ancestral is likely to have had. I you really think Box's infantile "translation" is a a useful contribution then I see now point in carrying on .wd400
October 16, 2015
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Yes, the literature (starting with Charles himself) is replete with people describing natural selection as though it were some kind of natural force.
Well if you're going to offer a designer substitute it darned well better be capable of at least creating the appearance of design!
Coincidentally, I was talking to my son this afternoon about this issue and he wondered whether it was worth the effort to get people to understand natural selection isn’t a force or whether we should just let them keep talking that way.
Is natural selection the cause or the effect? Evolutionists equivocate over this all the time. It's the cause, one says. It's the effect, says another. It both cause and effect, says a third. They all claim to understand evolution though. You can bet on that.Mung
October 16, 2015
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Box @237: Yes, the literature (starting with Charles himself) is replete with people describing natural selection as though it were some kind of natural force. Every rational person doubts that random changes by themselves are up to the task? Not to worry -- tada! Natural Selection to the rescue! Coincidentally, I was talking to my son this afternoon about this issue and he wondered whether it was worth the effort to get people to understand natural selection isn't a force or whether we should just let them keep talking that way. Now I fully realize that most people aren't interested in the nuances, but I think it is important for two reasons: (i) so often the claim of natural selection's power descends into a circular argument (i.e., it becomes logically fatal); and (ii) perhaps even worse, at least in practice, it gives people the false impression that they have an explanation in hand for this or that particular phenomenon -- Natural Selection did it! That is not only useless, it is actually corrosive to discovery and understanding. It impedes knowledge. And, unfortunately, it is pervasive. Thanks for your other thoughts and comments that help clarify these issues.Eric Anderson
October 16, 2015
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Zachriel @195:
Evolution isn’t random, and its trajectory depends on the landscape.
@201:
Variation is random with respect to fitness, but natural selection is not random.
And what, pray tell, produced the landscape? Or, to put it in less theoretical, more concrete, real-world terms: What produced the particular environment in which the creature finds itself? Are you proposing that there is some force that creates a particular environment so that creatures can develop toward a concrete direction? Or can we acknowledge, as we should, that the environment itself is essentially a random result. And what "trajectory" should that organism take once in that environment? Larger/smaller, faster/slower, feathers/scales, and and on. There is no directionality anyone can point to. So we have random variation that is then subjected to random environmental situations. And proponents like to pretend natural selection (again not a force, just a label), somehow "filters" the randomness and provides meaningful direction? Nonsense. It is randomness all the way down.Eric Anderson
October 16, 2015
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Box @149: Exactly. Well said.Eric Anderson
October 16, 2015
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wd400 @147:
Darwinian evolution is selection acting on heritable variants. This is an example of that, as are Darwin’s finches, peppered moths, sticklebacks and papers in your average issue of American Naturalist, Evolution orBehavioural Ecology.
Box has already made some effort to clarify what you are saying, so I apologize for beating a dead horse, but let's press just a bit: First of all, let's be very clear: natural selection is not a force. It is a label. But even accepting that for convenience purposes we were to apply a generalized short-hand label to the results of our observations, the real points we started with remain: 1. Observing that natural selection occurred doesn't tell us anything about how the variation came about in the first place. That is the part of the theory that needs to be supported. If someone loudly proclaims support for their theory when only half of the equation is supported by the evidence, then they can, and should, expect some healthy skepticism. 2. Even in clear cases where the Neo-Darwinian RM+NS mechanism is at play (malaria/sickle cell trait), it doesn't address the concerns that evolution skeptics have raised. Indeed, it confirms them. No prominent evolution critic or ID proponent disputes examples like the malaria/sickle cell trait situation. Yes, congratulations, Neo-Darwinian theory can explain some things. Minor things. Uncontroversial things. Things that, ironically, demonstrate just how anemic the RM+NS mechanism is. 3. That Reznick thinks an example of natural selection on guppies should help convince people of the truth of evolution demonstrates that that either (a) he is reading more into his observations than they merit, (b) he doesn’t understand the points raised by most evolution skeptics, and/or (c) he is conflating very different concepts under a single word “evolution.” Most likely all three of the foregoing.
This study doesn’t simply demonstrate that less fit creatures are less likely to survive and reproduce. It also shows this process can generate substantial phenotypic change in a short time. It is unlikely that any of the fish in the ancestral population had as much colouration as the average fish in the evolved population.
What process? The process of the less fit surviving? Or, again as Box has been trying to clarify, are you proposing that some other genetic or epigenetic effect was at work? If so, what was it? Reznick appears to dismiss the idea that we are dealing with the Neo-Darwinian random mutation process (and I believe you also feel the same way, based on earlier comments above). So what "process" are you referring to? No vague labels please. What do you think was actually going on in individual guppies -- what was occurring at the genetic or the epigenetic level?
And I do think one reason people don’t “get” evolution is that don’t know about nice clean examples of rapid evolutionary change of the sort Reznick describes.
If it is a "nice clean" example, then it is certainly the kind of thing evolution skeptics have no issue with. And it is also the kind of thing that has no bearing on -- and therefore no ability to address -- the issues skeptics have raised. No-one claims nature is forever static. No-one disputes that populations can change. The issue is how and to what extent the minor observed changes can be extrapolated to explain the existence of all of biology. If someone fails to see the difference, they are simply failing at logic.Eric Anderson
October 16, 2015
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I see you are also reading the wrong paper, PaV. FWIW, in this other paper they demonstrate convergent evolution in experimental pools but can't find the same signal in natural populations. The discussion has a long section about why that might be, the implications about that result and which suggests means by which those explanations might be tested. That's pretty typical of any scientific paper. It's also pretty typical that an abstract only briefly mentions results that are discussed more thoroughly in the body on the paper.wd400
October 16, 2015
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wd400: Here's how the abstract to the paper ends: The lack of genetic convergence in the natural populations suggests that convergent evolution is lacking in these populations or that the effects of selection become difficult to detect after a long-time period. How is this anything other than pure rubbish? The "lack of genetic convergence" is explained by "convergent evolution [being] lacking in these populations." IOW: something is lacking because the cause of the 'something' is lacking. But, if the cause of 'something' is lacking, then, of course, the 'something will be lacking. Pure tautology!! And, then: "[O]r, that the effects of selection become difficult to detect after a long-time period." IOW, it's either not there, or, we can't detect it. But, of course, either Santa Claus is not at the North Pole, or, we can't detect him. How is this a statement with any kind of substance to it?PaV
October 16, 2015
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Now that we've seen guppies evolve ie change markings, let's try the experiment on Coelacanth. Bet they evolve ie change markings too. Although color change survival of the fittest evolution can't be confused with arrival of the fittest evolution. The latter is founded on design. Teleological Design or Theistic Design, take a side:)ppolish
October 16, 2015
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Zachriel, It is funny really. Biological evolution is a property of living systems by definition. The limits of evolution are debatable but this is a red herring for this discussion, namely in relation to how life started. Life is more than replication as it also includes metabolism, reaction to stimuli and nobody knows what else. Replication and autonomy are among the properties of living systems. Replication of homogeneous structures is not the same as replication of heterogeneous structures. There is a colossal difference. Irrespective of other functions of life that must all be present and interacting, even taken in isolation, replication of living systems is necessarily irreducibly complex and crucially depends on read/write operations and instruction processing. Reducing life to chemistry is therefore a huge category error. Referring to the start of life as an open question is not a way out because there is already enough scientific knowledge about it to absolutely rule out chance and necessity as key factors behind it.EugeneS
October 16, 2015
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Zachriel
It’s still an open question, but the evidence indicates a natural cause, and there’s no scientific evidence of a designer.
What evidence? Please I'm very curious give us this evidence and I will concede!Andre
October 16, 2015
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EugeneS: The great question for you is not whether evolution occurs but whether you can convincingly explain to us that for life to kick-start you can do away with intelligence. It's still an open question, but the evidence indicates a natural cause, and there's no scientific evidence of a designer. EugeneS: Can you explain how the complex {program+processor} can come about without intelligence. It's still an open question, but there'e no a priori reason to exclude a natural cause. EugeneS: I claim that it is irreducibly complex and infeasible without intelligence. Irreducible structures can evolve naturally in incremental selectable steps. EugeneS: Whether irreducibly complex systems can evolve is a red herring here for this discussion. It's not a red herring when you introduce it as an intrinsic barrier, as you did just now — right now, as in your previous sentence. EugeneS: No matter how many times you repeat a false claim, it remains a false claim. True, however, the claim is not false. When you have replication with variation, you have evolution. Whether adaptation occurs depends on the fitness landscape. EugeneS: I realize I am really close to laughing. We try to be entertaining as well as informative.Zachriel
October 16, 2015
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Zachriel, "That provides all you need to start the process of evolution." No matter how many times you repeat a false claim, it remains a false claim. [I] "already have" [addressed]. You have addressed nothing. Hand-waving and interspersing your sentences with 'maybe' and 'possibly' are not an argument. You know what... I don't know how many people there are under you nick, but for some reason, after talking to you lot, I realize I am really close to laughing. I don't mean to be rude.EugeneS
October 16, 2015
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Zachriel, I thought you were beginning to understand. Was I wrong?! The great question for you is not whether evolution occurs but whether you can convincingly explain to us that for life to kick-start you can do away with intelligence. Do not change your focus. Address the real issue. I repeat it for you: Can you explain how the complex {program+processor} can come about without intelligence. I claim that it is irreducibly complex and infeasible without intelligence. Whether irreducibly complex systems can evolve is a red herring here for this discussion. How can they come into existence without intelligence, is the real issue. Stop your funny claims about mammalian ears. It is really funny because in order to understand what happens at the level of tissue and organs one first needs to have a clear picture about the nano-machines responsible for biological function at the molecular level. There is absolutely no way you can get your head round tissular or organismal functions without first addressing the simplest, i.e. molecular level functions simply because basic molecular functions underpinning life are horrendously complex.EugeneS
October 16, 2015
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OT: LOL, finally proof that atheists are mentally impaired: "Shutting down part of the brain that's responsible for problem solving" causes atheism.
Shutting down part of brain changes views on God, immigrants: study - October 14, 2015 Excerpt: Temporarily shutting down part of the brain that's responsible for problem solving can supress your religious views and prejudices toward immigrants, a new study has found. Researchers out of the University of York, in England, and the University of California, Los Angeles, used magnetic energy to safely and temporarily shut down specific regions of the brain of some study participants. When the posterior medial frontal cortex -- a part of the brain located near the surface and roughly a few inches up from the forehead -- was shut down, participants reported a decrease in their religious convictions and were more positive toward new immigrants critical of their country. http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/shutting-down-part-of-brain-changes-views-on-god-immigrants-study-1.2609612
Mental impairment would explain Zachriel's inability to follow even the simplest of arguments quite well wouldn't it? :)bornagain
October 16, 2015
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EugeneS: It is never enough in principle as for a {program + processor} you need to have intelligence. Molecular replicators act as messenger and enzyme. That provides all you need to start the process of evolution. EugeneS: Before discussing mammalian ears you need to address the hard core issue: the reliance of life on programming and executing instructions. Already have. 'Programming and executing instructions' can possibly evolve from simpler relationships. EugeneS: Mammalian ear is a red herring. No. It shows how irreducible complexity can evolve through incremental selectable steps.Zachriel
October 16, 2015
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Zachriel: "No, a simple replicator and membrane may be sufficient. Certainly, it can’t be rejected in principle as you attempt to do." It may not be enough as you attempt to convince us. It is never enough in principle as for a {program + processor} you need to have intelligence. Even so, I am glad you now recognize reality at least partially because you are now using an "and" in your sentences. So even for you it is already not that simple, because an "and" really means complexity, not incrementality. Ok, Zachriel, you are on the right track. Keep it up. Maybe conversing with people here on this blog is starting to do you good :) Mind you, membranes must be used in a functional metabolizing whole which is programmed to function in a coherent way. But anyway, not too bad as a beginning! Ok, so membranes AND replication. That's a start. The next bit for you, Zachriel, is realize that replicating heterogeneous functional structures is not the same as replicating crystals. I think that you are still avoid addressing the real issue. Before discussing mammalian ears you need to address the hard core issue: the reliance of life on programming and executing instructions. Mammalian ear is a red herring. Until such time as you tackle the real issue, your arguments will not be taken seriously. But anyway, I am glad you started changing your argumentation. Keep it up!EugeneS
October 16, 2015
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Box: Now what is the role of natural selection in all of this? A purely negative one I would say; it constantly removes stuff from Wagner’s imaginary library. Assuming the landscape has positive structure, natural selection makes the exploration tractable. If evolution had to explore every nook and cranny of sequence space, then, indeed, it would be impotent. However, it only has to explore regions near to the 'best so far'. Consider a toy landscape, where the vast majority of the space is death, there are a few distant regions of habitability, but those regions are connected by tendrils. Evolution would quickly travel those tendrils to find those regions. Everything depends on the fitness landscape. We have the history of life on Earth, and many examples of how small changes lead to advantages, such as fins to legs to arms to wings, pathways between regions of fitness.Zachriel
October 16, 2015
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Steve: differential reproduction only succeeds because organism reproduce in excess. Correct! Steve: we can see that not only does excess reproduction guarantee an organism’s survival As the vast majority of species that have ever existed are extinct, it's hardly a guarantee. However, if there is no excess reproduction, then extinction is guaranteed through attrition. With single-celled organisms reproducing through fission, fecundity is intrinsic. Andre: Now natural selection is not only directed, sensitive and make choices but Zachriel says natural selection is also concerned. Well, let us know when you are ready to be serious. EugeneS: you have to start with a program and its processor, memory and symbolic representation No, a simple replicator and membrane may be sufficient. Certainly, it can't be rejected in principle as you attempt to do. EugeneS: It is okay for a hypothesis to pose new questions, but it must help answer at least one. The RNA-world does not. It explains why the ribosome is a ribozyme, indeed, a prediction made a generation before its confirmation. EugeneS: Irreducibility is one of the strongest arguments against evolutionism. We offered to discuss a canonical example of the evolution of irreducibility, the mammalian middle ear, but everyone avoided the topic.Zachriel
October 16, 2015
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Eric Anderson: At another level, though, if we think of “viable” in a broader sense or if we simply acknowledge that some creatures were produced that didn’t end up surviving, then you are quite right: to that extent natural selection is a hindrance to evolution. It removes, it culls, it eliminates, it lessens possibilities.
Andreas Wagner proposes a view of life as a universal library (in a 5000-dimensional cube no less) stuffed with all the innovations that chance has come up with. This is his abstract attempt to explain how evolution can find all those improbable things like proteins. Now what is the role of natural selection in all of this? A purely negative one I would say; it constantly removes stuff from Wagner's imaginary library. The crazy thing is that when natural selection (read: natural elimination) doesn't do its destructive work it receives praise, even by Wagner, who says that "natural selection can preserve innovations". What's seems more important here is that natural elimination can destroy innovations. Some things are left untouched by natural elimination, since when is that "preserving"?
Eric Anderson: If anything, natural selection helps to keep a population within a stable norm, rather than veering off in new and uncharted directions.
If there is something like an evolutionary search for improbable things then NS doesn't help at all. For the evolutionist it's nothing to be cheerful about and certainly no reason to feel intellectually fulfilled.Box
October 16, 2015
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Zachriel: "However, artificial selection doesn’t explain the observed results with guppies or finches not under artificial selection." Exactly the opposite is true. Adaptability can only be explained by intelligent tuning. The guppies had already been preprogrammed to execute adaptation routines under certain conditions. The changed conditions serve as a trigger for those built-in routines. Have you ever solved a real industrial engineering problem in the field? It is all about tweaking and making stuff work. Because things are discrete in the real world, it is a combinatorial problem. The problem of parameter tuning is not amenable to blind search. It may be amenable to heuristically guided search, but that IS a different story. Heuristics encode intelligence. Heuristics are rules stemming from practice of solving similar problems. That is why GAs work and Darwinian evolution does not. However the main problem is not even that. You know what it is. I have repeated it many times now: how to explain naturalistically the existence of {program+processor} in life? That alone ruins all evolutionist thought. It is evolutionism that is scientifically sterile, not the intelligent design hypothesis. Unfortunately, the level of indoctrination in the evo-camp does not allow people to see the real picture. You know what is really disturbing about all this? It is that everybody uses the right hypothesis in practice: that everything is rational, everything should work from first principles up to implementation. Everybody knows this. However, having done what is rational = i.e. assuming intelligence behind all things, evolutionists wrap it up as 'proof of evolution' or 'confirmation of evolution' if you like the latter better than the first. I am amazed by how indoctrinated people like you are. Why is this? I think this is because you have never solved a single real problem in anger. Once you have done it, illusions start disappearing. So far, in your case, there is no sign of it, unfortunately. What membranes are you talking about?! As soon as you are dealing with heterogeneity, you have to start with a program and its processor, memory and symbolic representation, reading and writing. The main problem is this and there is absolutely no way out except recognize intelligent causation. There is no chemical evolution at all: nothing to select from, no autonomous self-sustaining entities. It is all bluff. Take {program+processor} apart and you break it. Full stop. Nothing works. You are wrong in assessing RNA-world as a fruitful hypothesis. It is okay for a hypothesis to pose new questions, but it must help answer at least one. The RNA-world does not. Why? Because it does not stand the test of reality. The reality is, you need control, i.e. intelligence guiding the synthesis to get to decent size RNAs. Plus you need an irreducibly complex translation system. Irreducibility is one of the strongest arguments against evolutionism. And it is a very good argument because it reflects reality. No wonder you don't want to recognize the fact. The challenge for evolutionism remains: how to 'explain away' the need for intelligence in the presence of instructions and their processing at the heart of life. No make believe will help evolutionists until they radically change the approach from sterile hypotheses to something that reflect how things are in the real world.EugeneS
October 16, 2015
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Holy crud what a great post Steve. But could you change "Nothing is left to chance" to "Not anything is left to chance". "Nothing" is part of the Design, as is chance. Awesome Design!ppolish
October 15, 2015
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Now natural selection is not only directed, sensitive and make choices but Zachriel says natural selection is also concerned. Is Zachriel talking about a loving God here?Andre
October 15, 2015
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This is all just trivialities, Zachriel. The elephant in the room is that differential reproduction only succeeds because organism reproduce in excess. Excess reproduction is a designed object that ensures life's continuation. Meaning evolution is subsumed under a designed system and is impotent absent design. Not only that, we can see that not only does excess reproduction guarantee an organism's survival, it by the way of contributing to the food chain, ensures the survival of other organisms as well. The random nature of inherited traits is built into the system to ensure than the organism leaves viable progeny no matter what the environment throws its way. Nothing is left to chance. That is design in action; a much clearer, easy to grasp, succinct explanation that is far and away superior to the disconbobulated blob that is the modern synthesis.
Zachrie said: Fitness is specific to the characteristics of the organism and the environment. An organism may be perfectly viable, but leave fewer offspring on average due to differences in traits. When we connect the differences in traits to differences in reproductive success, then that is called natural selection. The result is a change in the mixture of traits that make up the population, and that is called adaptive evolution.
Steve
October 15, 2015
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Mapou: Ban them all. That’s what I would do. Having them here allows thinking people to access their flawed arguments and see them for what they are.mike1962
October 15, 2015
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While no one knows how translation originally arose, the argument from irreducibility is not a valid argument.
Not an argument. The argument from irreducible complexity is no different than the argument from signs of work. Both have only one known source.Virgil Cain
October 15, 2015
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You could start with Darwin’s Origin of Species, but it is a bit dated. http://darwin-online.org.uk/Fr....._1859.html You could check out an encyclopedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution Or you could take a class at your local university. http://evolution-textbook.org/
Darwin's wasn't a scientific theory. Wikipedia doesn't reference a scientific theory of evolution and neither does the textbook. Evos have to be the most dishonest people ever.Virgil Cain
October 15, 2015
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However, artificial selection doesn’t explain the observed results with guppies or finches not under artificial selection.
And natural selection doesn’t explain the observed results with guppies or finches not under artificial selection.
Darwin coined the term based on a parallel with artificial selection,
Except there isn't any parallel.
Natural selection refers to differential reproductive success due heritable traits.
That is incorrect. Natural selection refers to differential reproductive success due heritable traits that are due to happenstance variation.Virgil Cain
October 15, 2015
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