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Stephen Jay Gould’s Contempt for the John Templeton Foundation

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Yesterday Charles Harper issued a press release taking to task Daniel Golden for his piece in the Wall Street Journal in which he suggested that the John Templeton Foundation has been a patron or sponsor of Intelligent Design (for the press release, go here). In that press release, Harper ritualistically underscored just how much money and effort the John Templeton Foundation has spent on critiquing ID. In particular, he noted that

for almost a decade the John Templeton Foundation has been the major supporter of a substantial program at the headquarters of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), one of the chief focus activities of which has been informing the public of the weakness of the ID position on modern evolutionary biology. (see: http://www.aaas.org/spp/dser) This program was founded under the advice and guidance of the prominent evolutionary biologist Francisco Ayala when he was President of the AAAS, and was also supported by Stephen Jay Gould under his Presidency.

For Harper to cite Gould as an ally here is ironic since Gould had nothing but contempt for the John Templeton Foundation. In his book Rocks of Ages, Gould attacks what he calls the “syncretic school,” which embraces “the oldest fallacy of all as a central premise: the claim that science and religion should fuse to one big, happy family, or rather one big pod of peas, where the facts of science reinforce and validate the precepts of religion, and where God shows his hand (and mind) in the workings of nature.” (212)

Worse yet, as far as Gould is concerned, “the spectacular growth and success of science has turned the tables for modern versions of syncretism. Now the conclusions of science must be accepted a priori, and religious interpretations must be finessed and adjusted to match unimpeachable results from the magisterium of natural knowledge! The Big Bang happened, and we must now find God at this tumultuous origin.” (213)

And who is the worst offender here? Who, more than anyone, is responsible for this resurgence in syncretizing science and religion? Read on:

In the summer of 1998, a deluge of media hype enveloped the syncretist position, as though some startingly new and persuasive argument had been formulated, or some equally exciting and transforming discovery had been made. In fact, absolutely nothing of intellectual novelty had been added, as the same bad argments surfaced into a glare of publicity because the J. M. Templeton Foundation, established by its fabulously wealthy eponym to advance the syncretist program under the guise of more general and catholic (small c) discussion about science and religion, garnered a splash of media attention by spending 1.4 million bucks to hold a conference in Berkeley on “science and the spiritual quest.” (214)

Question: Would it help the Templeton Foundation to accept Intelligent Design if a Harvard professor as famous as Stephen Jay Gould could be found to support it?

Follow-up Question: If an equally prominent ID proponent treated the Templeton Foundation with Gould’s contempt, would the Templeton Foundation nonetheless fawn on him and invoke his name to counter less respectable elements in the science-religion dialogue?

Comments
Atheists can use the laws of logic, know morality, induction (laws of physics stay the same), understand happiness, etc. But they can't account for these things because they are either illusions if God doesn't exist (morality) or are immaterial (laws of logic, numbers, etc.) or in the case of induction, inexplicible. Atheists getting through life on borrowed theistic capital. Everytime they argue, notice a color, or know the difference between right and wrong (getting upset about ID for example) they showing how they can't break the bonds of theism. They aren't consistent. And that's my point.geoffrobinson
November 16, 2005
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Absolutey correct Mentok, that is why the inherent Atheism of Darwinism is irrelevent. You argue, however, that Atheism is bad, therefore people should not believe it. Are you honestly suggesting that Atheists should drop the "A" to make the world better? Are you suggesting that it is possible for them to do this?puckSR
November 16, 2005
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cambion you wrote: "It seems you are affirming thesism primarily out of personally pragmatic reasons. The core argument seems to be: ‘theism makes you happy, therefore you should believe in God.” I, myself, think there are much better reasons to believe in God than personal comfort" That wasn't my "core argument". My point was that it is morally indefensible to try to destory peoples faith in God for personal or political or philsophical reasons. People believe in God because they come to that conclusion naturally. You can't believe in something by choosing to believe in it. You believe in something because you believe in it.mentok
November 16, 2005
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Mentok: You have severly misunderstood me. Earlier when i was commenting on Darwinism. The point which i was attempting to make was completely missed. I was simply stating that your characterization of Darwinism as baseless had to be false. There must exist some base for so many people to believe it. This is the same point i was trying to make on the topic of religion. You may have very strong evidence of why your religion is right and someone else's religion is wrong, but their religion must at least have some reasoning behind it, or it wouldnt have so many followers. Theism is not a word for the belief in God. Theism is a word for the belief in some form of divinity. ID has to make some form of comment on theism, otherwise from what i have read it is no different than Darwinism. I know..I know The Intelligent Agent could be a human. The fact of the matter is that whoever the Intelligent Agent is, he obviously created us, and helped create the Universe. Therefore, he would be god-like at least from our level of understanding. He may not be the Supreme Being, but he is obviously the superior being. He also still takes an active interest in the workings of the Universe, therefore it would be wise to try and get his favor. Therefore, ID is making at least a weak Theological statement. You missed my point on Christianity...you could substitute any religion that believes in an after-life for Christianity. The point is still valid, they have no interest in making a "Heaven on Earth". They are simply preparing for the afterlife. I am trying to simplify this conversation a great deal. I always try and simplify statements. It makes it easier to understand. BTW Hell is much different than prison. Hell, if we believe religious texts, is a place of permanent "torture". The reasons for going to hell are fairly obscure, and no one is certain of their final destination. This would "idea" would torment the hell outta me. Oh, and as to your concept of corporeal hell, consider this. You are suggesting that your soul simply is simply kicked back to try again. You retain no memory of your past life, and therefore have no better chance of making the right decision. Therefore, you are suggesting that "being good with God" is a matter of chance. If this is the case, why would God bother to send you back at all? Use the same logic you used earlier to dismiss the existence of a spiritual hell, and you will notice it deducts your concept of hell as well.puckSR
November 16, 2005
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Every complex system bears the hallmarks of "design." The economy must surely be designed. A tornado must surely be designed. The fact that random (scientific sense) mechanisms can create complex systems is not controversial. I wonder if Dr. Demski finds the economy to be a matter of specified complexity?jmcd
November 16, 2005
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puck you wrote: "Christianity in particular introduces 2 concepts to the mix. Heaven and Hell. While an atheist might gain a great deal from believing in Heaven, he would also suffer a great deal psychologically believing in Hell." Almost all religions posit a heavenly realm as the final destination. Different varieties of hell are taught as well. By using your logic we should eliminate all laws and punshiment. Why? Threat of prison causes suffering to people psychologically. Hell is here on earth if you break the law and are caught. Does that mean that we should eliminate all laws and punishments because people may fear that? As long as you obey the law you will have no fear. Personally I don't believe in an eternal hell as some religions teach. I see no value in it from Gods point of view. I reject the idea that humans are more compassionate and loving then God. Humans would not send their own children to hell for eternity if those children made mistakes and broke the law. I see no reason to believe that God would be any less of a compassionate person. But clearly there is a dichotomy when we look at the various lives that people lead. Some people seem to be more favored by God then others. Some people are born into varities of suffering and other may be born into pleasurable and happy circumstances. Some people live lives of security, health, wealth, and love. Others lead lives of misery, and others lead lives of a mixture of the two. What does this imply for a theist? That there must be a reason for the discrepancy in peoples lives. The only logical deduction which doesn't posit a cruel God is the concept of Karma and reincarnation. Hell is being born again on earth or an earth like planet and then undergoing suffering, the kind we see all around us in the world. That is my belief about hell from a theological viewpoint. You also wrote: "Theism makes no promise of heaven. ID may indicate that a greater being does exist, but since it makes no claims about the greater being, then there is still the very real possibility that the greater being does not have a “heaven” waiting for you when you die." Theism is a word which describes the belief in God. Therefore it makes no promises because it is simply a word for belief in God. The nature of peoples theology varies. But most people who believe in God believe in an afterlife because it is a logical deduction and almost all religions promise that. ID is not a theological theory. It is a scientific theory solely based on empiricism. Therefore ID makes no doctrine concerning theological beliefs of whatever variety. Then you wrote: "As far as his behavior being lesser because he does not believe in Eternal life..i dont know if i trust your logic on this. An atheist believes that this is his only life, therefore he would not want to do anything that could ever possibly come back to hurt him. He would want to have the greatest society possible, in the hope that he would be able to live in that Utopia. A Christian on the other hand, views this existence as temporary. The only concern a Christian would have is how to best please Jesus. Therefore he may commit acts that are harmful to the society, if they help his personal chances of eternal salvation" I didn't say anything about behavior. Re read what I wrote. I am not a Christian but I do know that there are numerous religions under the heading of "Christianity". Each religion has their own unique beliefs. "How best to please Jesus" in almost all Christian religions is done by helping others. Christians generally believe that they are saved by simply having faith in Jesus. "Harmful acts to society" are not the sole province of Christians or believers. You try and make a complex issue into one of black or white. You promote atheists as if they are the example of all that is good. That is a very unrealistic viewpoint. One need look no furthur then the last 100 years with the rise of communism to see the deadly totalitarian road that atheists can take.mentok
November 16, 2005
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Side Note: from the BBC Radio Show "In Our Time" (in Real Audio). "Chance & Design" w/ Simon Conway Morris. Description reads in part: "Who were the original proponents of the idea of a grand design? Were they deliberately setting out to find a scientific theory that could sit alongside religious faith? On the other hand, can the concept of contingency – or the randomness of evolution - be compatible with a belief in God?" http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20030213.shtml "Lamarck & Natural Selection" w/ Simon Conway Morriss. Description reads in part: "Who was Lamarck? How did Natural Selection escape from his shadow and gain acceptance from the scientific establishment? And has any evidence emerged that might challenge the elegant simplicity of Darwin’s big idea?" http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20031226.shtml "Origins of Life" w/ Richard Dawkins http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20040923.shtml I haven't listened to these yet so I apologize if they're of no use... lpadronlpadron
November 16, 2005
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Geoff: Have you ever casually conversed with an Atheist? I get the distinct impression that the only strong Atheists you met, you immediately accused of horrendous acts of inhumanity. You are suggesting that an Atheist cannot know happiness. Im sorry, your going to have to clarify this position.puckSR
November 16, 2005
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Templeton's son is an evangelical Christian who is in the process of completely taking control of the organization. Perhaps the direction will change after Sir John moves on. DanDan
November 16, 2005
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Actually Bombadill you crossed that line when you posited that the designer had to be a Who...rather than a What.puckSR
November 16, 2005
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"If you infer design in the universe then you have not made a scientific claim." I disagree. Inferring design is logical in light of the latest scientific data. Therefore the inference is scientific. What is unscientific is positing who the designer is. Because then you have crossed the line of demarcation between science and theology/philosophy.Bombadill
November 16, 2005
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My point wasn't so much about randomness, but the very idea of randomness, etc. Atheists can't account for immaterial ideas like "red" or the law of non-contradiction, or purpose, or happiness.geoffrobinson
November 16, 2005
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"They are “sellouts” because they attack ID in the name of scientific integrity when the fact is there is absolutely no basis for that claim." If you believe that a flagellum is irreducibly complex and that said belief is based on science then your brand of ID can indeed be attacked in the name of scientific integrity. If you infer design in the universe then you have not made a scientific claim. Either way it is not something that belongs in science.jmcd
November 16, 2005
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Bombadill, I guess wasn't very clear. "I believe that theism is rooted in facts. One does not have to check one’s brains at the door before entering the house of faith." That's basically what I was getting at. It seemed to me that mentok was advocating belief in God for mainly reasons of psychological comfort.cambion
November 16, 2005
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Not to beat a dead horse but I am not counting on an afterlife and that really doesn't bother me. If anything it makes my time on Earth all the more precious.jmcd
November 16, 2005
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That was somewhat of a blatant plug I went to the website...and it seemed to have a lot of papers about "attack" I didnt really see a clear definition of biological ID, nor the biologists algorithm for determining ID. I have never been a huge fan of statistics in Philosophy, which may explain my distaste for Pascal.puckSR
November 16, 2005
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puck you wrote: "correct me if im wrong but…many people believe in evolutionthe idea that evolution is entirely baseless would seem incredibly misleading.There must exist some evidence for evolution if so many people accept it." Why? Is that some kind of new axiomatic proof I haven't heard of. Since when does popular belief equate with actual truth? People who believe in evolution are of two varieites. The first is the person who has studied all of the science which evolution draws upon. The second is those who accept argument from authority. Very few people have studied all the science. 99% of the people who believe in evolution know nothing or next to nothing about the details. Their opinion is invalid. The people who know the science believe in evolution not because there is any actual proof for evolution. There is no proof. It is a theory in search of proof. By proof I mean data that unequivocally proves evolution to be factual, no such proof exists. So why do people who know the science have such firm faith in evolution? It's because they summarliy reject the only alternative. They accept evolution in some form or another because they see it as the ONLY possible explanation for our existence. Therefore any problems with evolutionary theory they can ignore quite easily because they believe that it is simply a matter of time and research until the whole theory is proven, or a new variation of it will be proven. They have a mental bloc against a non materialistic potential in the universe. Which is absurd. At every moment they experience a non materialistic reality. Our mind and consciousness are not comprised of matter. Our mind and consciousness is a non materialistic reality which defines our own sense of existence. We are conscious entities residing in human bodies. What is consciousness and mind? Can you weigh them or measure their size? They exist in a different dimension then the three we see all around us. So that simple fact of life should be a something which proves that a purely materialistic ontological paradigm is insufficient to explain all natural phenonema. We are living proof of that. You then wrote" "Similiar argument in the world of religionYou obviously think Christianity is the way. But Islam must at least have some something to it if it is so popular. Characterizing a belief as ridiculous simply because you do not share that belief seems prideful and blind." I never said I was a Christian. I embrace all religions which free people from their suffering and despair. I believe there is truth to varying degrees in almost all religions. But any theistic religious belief is healthier for you then no faith in God. Some beliefs are ridiculous regardless if I believe in them or not. If I believe that the sun revolves around the earth because that is how it appears, then that is a ridiculous belief. I don't have that belief because I am prideful or blind, it's because I know the truth. Then you wrote: "So perhaps instead of being “sellouts”, they just do not see your point of view?Ever consider that someone is wrong without condemning them?" They obviously don't agree with my point of view. They are "sellouts" because they attack ID in the name of scientific integrity when the fact is there is absolutely no basis for that claim. Therefore their attack on ID is a sellout and a spiritual and ethical fraud.mentok
November 16, 2005
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puck, please read: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0830823751/qid=1132167656/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-0130323-5794457?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 It will answer all of your questions regarding the design inference, probabilities, etc... Also, read thru the papers at: http://www.designinference.com cambion, I believe that theism is rooted in facts. One does not have to check one's brains at the door before entering the house of faith. Rather, there is compelling evidence which supersedes subjective personal experience and build's a rather cogent case for the existance of God.Bombadill
November 16, 2005
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mentok, Just playing devil's advocate here... I'm no communist, but your statements remind me of Marx's "Religion is the opiate of the masses." It seems you are affirming thesism primarily out of personally pragmatic reasons. The core argument seems to be: 'theism makes you happy, therefore you should believe in God." I, myself, think there are much better reasons to believe in God than personal comfort...cambion
November 16, 2005
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bombadill: You are misunderstanding me. Science simply claims that patterns and highly unlikely chances occur. ID claims that they have a purpose. This is absolutely fine, but now you have to quantify all of the terms like "highly unlikely" and "intelligent patterns". If a bunch of rocks are laying in a straight line...is that an "intelligent pattern"? Is it "highly unlikely"? I was not claiming that patterns and chances in the Universe do not exist, and i am fully of the belief that they indicate a Creator. I was simply pointing out the rather difficult problems of definition that arise when trying to consider these beliefs scientifically.puckSR
November 16, 2005
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My personal belief is that the designer is the God of the Bible. But I arrive at this conclusion based on historical facts + subjective personal experience, not science. But I know people who are fully agnostic and ID proponents.Bombadill
November 16, 2005
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Mentok...you are forgetting something in your mention of religion. But very interesting argument Blaise Pascal Theism makes no promise of heaven. ID may indicate that a greater being does exist, but since it makes no claims about the greater being, then there is still the very real possibility that the greater being does not have a "heaven" waiting for you when you die. Christianity in particular introduces 2 concepts to the mix. Heaven and Hell. While an atheist might gain a great deal from believing in Heaven, he would also suffer a great deal psychologically believing in Hell. A true atheist does not believe that he will suffer anything after death. It will end, and he will cease to exist. This may be heaven for some, and hell for others. Therefore he should not be effected by his lack of an afterlife. As far as his behavior being lesser because he does not believe in Eternal life..i dont know if i trust your logic on this. An atheist believes that this is his only life, therefore he would not want to do anything that could ever possibly come back to hurt him. He would want to have the greatest society possible, in the hope that he would be able to live in that Utopia. A Christian on the other hand, views this existence as temporary. The only concern a Christian would have is how to best please Jesus. Therefore he may commit acts that are harmful to the society, if they help his personal chances of eternal salvation. Just my thoughts on the subjectpuckSR
November 16, 2005
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Well, it is glossing things over to simply say that "patterns exist". It runs a tad bit deeper than that. What we are talking about are things like: digitally coded sequential information at the core of the cell, cellular machinery which requires advanced engineering principles to even begin to understand and which is also purposefully arranged, fine-tuning of the physical laws of our planet and it's position that are set to an impossibly small tolerance for supporting organic life, etc... Things that just don't gel very well with the notion that life and matter were produced by purposeless natural mechanisms.Bombadill
November 16, 2005
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I had thought previously that the approach was thus: Science..patterns exists...that is it ID....patterns exists...something/someone must have created these patterns. I had always leaned towards the scientific approach, because the ID approach requires one to justify which patterns are intelligently designed and which are not. This leaves a great deal of subjective interpretation out of the mix.puckSR
November 16, 2005
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And ID can be congruent with common descent, but the ID proponent who embraces common descent will tell you that blind, unintelligent, natural mechanisms are/were insufficient to produce the species changes. I personally, reject common descent as an ID proponent.Bombadill
November 16, 2005
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jmcd you wrote: "I am a man of no great faith in God yet I see humanity and the universe we live in as a wonderful awe inspiring creations. It is ridiculous to imply that without religion there can be no happiness or joy in the world. I provisionally believe in evolution but it has not brought me hell and death. You would prpobably say that without religion there can be no morality. This is equally untrue." You need to read more carefully. I didn't say there is no happines nor any joy in the world without religion did I? And I would never say that without religion there can be no morality. What I did say or mean to convey is that for the atheist they believe they have one short infinitesimal amount of time to live their life and then they enter into eternal death. Their psychological ontological mindset is nihilistic and leads towards death and darkeness. They see no hope for living beyond the death of the body. They live in deep psychological trauma which they have learned (or not) to block out of their mind. That is inevitable if you are sane. If you see nothing but death and darkness for eternity as your future then you will be deeply affected in a negative sense by that even if you don't realize it. Despair is the only end of that road. Let's contrast that with people who have firm faith in God and the eternality of the soul or consciousness. They view life as eternal. They view their future after the death of the body as a continuing existence on into forever. They live in the light of expectation of eternal bliss. That expectation brings joy. Wouldn't you be joyful if you firmly believed that you will live forever in a heavenly world? You say evolution has not brought you hell or death. You misunderstood the symbolic language I used. All atheists live in a mindest of knawing despair due to belief that with death comes the end of existence. That is hell my friend. People who have never had firm faith in God don't understand what a difference a positive ontological outlook has on the human psyche. I do know. I was born and raised an atheist. When I gained total and absolute faith in God it was like being let out of prison, the prison of my own misconceptions. I went from death row to heaven in a snap of the fingers. I know how atheists view themselves and their relationship with reality. It brings great psychic pain and deep trauma to all atheists and even to a lesser extent agnostics. Because they learn to suppress that pain when they are growing up they don't realize they have it, it's become a part of them. I'm not talking about faith in religion. I'm talking about faith in God, belief in God's existence. Religion is generally a philosophical-theology school of thought defining a particular concept of God and reality. The best thing in peoples lives is faith in God. nothing else can give their lives true meaning. Everything in this world for us is temporary and ends in old age and death. Without hope for a brighter future then eternal death, you live in hell even though you may not realize it. Trying to destroy peoples faith in God due to misguided belief that religions are to blame for all the bad things in the world is foolish and ignorant. Atheists need to grow up and be the moral ethical people they so loudly claim to be these days. If you destroy peoples faith in God send them to the dark.mentok
November 16, 2005
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jmcd: "If that is true then does irreducible complexity go beyond the realm of ID?" Irreducible complexity is basically a generic concept that long predates ID theory (in which it was originally applied by Michael Behe). Mathematically, it is related to descriptive and algorithmic incompressibility, i.e., Kolmogorov and computational complexity. In the fully generic sense, it applies to any structure or process that cannot be collapsed to a part of itself while holding certain properties invariant. Accordingly, it is ubiquitous in mathematics, engineering, and the empirical sciences, and became unpopular only when incorporated, at the prescient suggestion of Charles Darwin himself, in a challenge to evolutionary theory. Every structure and system in the universe has an "irreducibly complex" core with respect to any given combination of applicable properties ... a core system that cannot be further reduced while maintaining the properties in question. However, the concept must be handled with extreme care; while it is not always true that a system exhibiting IC with respect to a set of functional properties "cannot evolve", it is often the case that the evolution of an IC system appears vanishingly improbable within the overall evolutionary context. Hence, the obvious improbability of many of the just-so stories concocted for the purpose of explaining how such a system might have evolved "randomly".neurode
November 16, 2005
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Well said, Bombadill!Benjii
November 16, 2005
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I don't think this has to be so complicted. ID is, quite modestly, the study of patterns in nature that are best explained as the result of intelligence. As opposed to blind purposeless natural mechanisms. Does it have theistic implications? Sure. But the implications are the byproduct of the science, not the science. Don't conflate the two. The implications of ID are no more philosophical/theological than the implications of Darwinian Evolution. Both imply things about our purpose, or lack thereof.Bombadill
November 16, 2005
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I do not believe that ID is truly a "novel" concept, in any of the incarnations that you have mentioned. The laws of logic require Theism...wait are we speaking of the laws similiar to those governing Boolean Algebra? I am almost sure that those require NO theism. Please explain what you are talking about. You then mention design and meaning....how do the concepts borrow from Theism? I assume your referring to the more grandiose terms of design and meaning. I thought the current argument was over the atheistic nature of Science? So how is Science inherently Theistic? What God do scientists believe in?puckSR
November 16, 2005
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