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Stephen Jay Gould’s Contempt for the John Templeton Foundation

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Yesterday Charles Harper issued a press release taking to task Daniel Golden for his piece in the Wall Street Journal in which he suggested that the John Templeton Foundation has been a patron or sponsor of Intelligent Design (for the press release, go here). In that press release, Harper ritualistically underscored just how much money and effort the John Templeton Foundation has spent on critiquing ID. In particular, he noted that

for almost a decade the John Templeton Foundation has been the major supporter of a substantial program at the headquarters of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), one of the chief focus activities of which has been informing the public of the weakness of the ID position on modern evolutionary biology. (see: http://www.aaas.org/spp/dser) This program was founded under the advice and guidance of the prominent evolutionary biologist Francisco Ayala when he was President of the AAAS, and was also supported by Stephen Jay Gould under his Presidency.

For Harper to cite Gould as an ally here is ironic since Gould had nothing but contempt for the John Templeton Foundation. In his book Rocks of Ages, Gould attacks what he calls the “syncretic school,” which embraces “the oldest fallacy of all as a central premise: the claim that science and religion should fuse to one big, happy family, or rather one big pod of peas, where the facts of science reinforce and validate the precepts of religion, and where God shows his hand (and mind) in the workings of nature.” (212)

Worse yet, as far as Gould is concerned, “the spectacular growth and success of science has turned the tables for modern versions of syncretism. Now the conclusions of science must be accepted a priori, and religious interpretations must be finessed and adjusted to match unimpeachable results from the magisterium of natural knowledge! The Big Bang happened, and we must now find God at this tumultuous origin.” (213)

And who is the worst offender here? Who, more than anyone, is responsible for this resurgence in syncretizing science and religion? Read on:

In the summer of 1998, a deluge of media hype enveloped the syncretist position, as though some startingly new and persuasive argument had been formulated, or some equally exciting and transforming discovery had been made. In fact, absolutely nothing of intellectual novelty had been added, as the same bad argments surfaced into a glare of publicity because the J. M. Templeton Foundation, established by its fabulously wealthy eponym to advance the syncretist program under the guise of more general and catholic (small c) discussion about science and religion, garnered a splash of media attention by spending 1.4 million bucks to hold a conference in Berkeley on “science and the spiritual quest.” (214)

Question: Would it help the Templeton Foundation to accept Intelligent Design if a Harvard professor as famous as Stephen Jay Gould could be found to support it?

Follow-up Question: If an equally prominent ID proponent treated the Templeton Foundation with Gould’s contempt, would the Templeton Foundation nonetheless fawn on him and invoke his name to counter less respectable elements in the science-religion dialogue?

Comments
btw. if i sit down and draw a picture, but have no idea what im going to draw...and i finish the drawing and its a big field with a house and some cows, a river in the background. i didnt have a blueprint...abstract or not. yet, no one is going to see my badly drawn picture of a farm scene and think it was undesigned. thered be no doubt. not all designed objects have to start out with a blueprint. it just needs to have some sort of purpose, goal- tho you might not exactly know the details of the end goal, meaning, etc.jboze3131
November 16, 2005
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you say that the wealth of nations is the foundation for modern economic theory, but you also say that the economy is in no way designed, has no blueprint, and simply emerged from no system at all. thats somewhat of a contradiction. if the modern economic theory is based on any book, then its clearly a blueprint of sorts. even if we had no book to look to...when people gather to form ideas, put purpose and meaning into something (which is what theyve done with barter and the modern economy), its called design. people had constant input into the system, information flow that has never really stopped. causes, meaning and purpose- theyre all part of any economic system. my comment was the economy is not an accidental system. you have 2 choices- either it was designed or its an accident. considering its the result of intelligent agents acting on purpose with goals in mind, putting meaning to something...it sure as heck wasnt an accident. so, youre only left with a system that is designed.jboze3131
November 16, 2005
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"i dont think i need to read anything to learn that the economy is an accidental undesigned system…because such an idea is ridiculous." The Wealth of Nations is the foundation of modern economic theory. Do you deny it as well as evolutionary theory?cambion
November 16, 2005
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jboze, Let me give you another example. In all the clear-cut instances of design, there exists some abstract blueprint apart from the physical substantiation of the object. The 'form' of a watch or of a bicycle, detailing their inter-connected parts is conceived of, and then a physical object is made based upon this outside form. Where is the blueprint of the economy? No one sat down and wired it together. The analogy doesn't even make sense in terms of ID.cambion
November 16, 2005
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i dont think i need to read anything to learn that the economy is an accidental undesigned system...because such an idea is ridiculous.jboze3131
November 16, 2005
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bartering just emerged on its own without any guidance, no purpose, etc? im not sure how you get this.jboze3131
November 16, 2005
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"it wasnt just something that happened by accident…" emergent property != accident "…like people don't know about that book…" I wasn't recommending it to everyone. Given jboze's statements I thought he might learn something by reading it...cambion
November 16, 2005
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and how was barter stumbled upon? people put thought and purpose into bartering items. they didnt just drop something and their neighbor dropped something at the same time, and they picked up each others items and exchanged. they put thought into how things would be done, they decided on a plan of action, they acted to create a system that would work for all.jboze3131
November 16, 2005
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how do you gather that the economy isnt designed? its either a bunch of random events and accidents taking place on a daily basis that, by some miracle, overall equals a well run system or its a designed system that took the thought and hard work of many people over the years. when some person acts to make soemthing of purpose, they are in fact creating. the economy is the result of millions of people working toward goals, with purposes in mind- these are, in the very nature, creative acts. acts of creation are acts of designing. people work to keep the economy going, because people before them have designed the system itself. the system didnt just appear from nothing and it didnt evolve without intelligent input and a lot of hard work from some simple system of trade and barter. i dont agree at all that a system with zero rules and regulations would serve the same function as we see today in the US, nor would it end in anything but disaster. less govt regulation- were all for that...but, that doesnt mean the system isnt regulated. i dont think libertarians want a free for all- they want the govt out of it. the system will still be regulated by those within the system. it will still have limits and rules and such in place, but they will come from those in the system. theres no comparion between the subjects here. the economy was clearly a system that was designed. it wasnt just something that happened by accident...it wasnt a fluke, and it wasnt a chance encounter. intelligent agents work daily to put information and purpose and meaning into the system as well.jboze3131
November 16, 2005
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" You should read Adam Smith's “The Wealth of Nations.” He discussed all of this over 200 years ago…" ...like people don't know about that book...Ben Z
November 16, 2005
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jboze3131, You're being entirely too vague by throwing *design* as being "intelligent agents acting in ways to create things." You also say: "the agents involved here didnt just stumble upon the economy, they actively put the traditions, laws, regulations, customs, etc. into place- which is a creative act." This is not true. Barter (which created the world's first economies) was stumbled upon. "but when intelligent agents act together to formulate traditions, regulations, laws and such, as one would with the economy, this is designing and it has the hallmarks of design." I think you missed my point earlier about the libertarians. There can easily exist an amazingly complex economy on which absolutely zero government regulations, laws, or traditions have been placed. One could have a situation where an entire population is in it only for themselves, bartering this service for that product and so on, and a complex economy would devopment stontaneously. You should read Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations." He discussed all of this over 200 years ago...cambion
November 16, 2005
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of course im not saying EVERY act of an intelligent agent equals design. if someone throws a carton of eggs out their window, theyre not designing anything...but when intelligent agents act together to formulate traditions, regulations, laws and such, as one would with the economy, this is designing and it has the hallmarks of design. the economy is clearly designed. intelligent agents acting in ways to create things (such an economies) equals design. so i guess we could say that when intelligent agents think thru issues and form things with goals and purposes in mind, we call THAT design and acts of designing. the economy didnt just evolve from some crude system with no intelligent input into building the system.jboze3131
November 16, 2005
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jboze3131, So then, by your logic, if I go to the beach and drop a bunch of rocks into a pile, then that pile of rocks would be *designed* simply becuase it was the result of the actions of an intelligent agent?cambion
November 16, 2005
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pucksr said: "alright, so if all ID does is suggest that deisgn can be detected in nature why are evolutionists so up in arms"? Sorry to jump in, but that's a great question and here's the answer, because it drives a stake at the very heart of the evolutionary worldview! Which is: At the centre of the universe there is no meaning or purpose - the materials is all there is. So their attack on ID is never based on a serious consideration of the evidence, but on a projection of what they think IDists are up to. Which is of course overturning their beloved naturalism for some sort of theism. Whether they are right or not, ID should be either accepted or rejected based on its own scientific credentials (specified complexity a hall mark of a designing intelligence is evident in biological systems). Science has failed if the perceived philosophical and theological implications of ID stop this plane before we can ever see if it can fly!petro
November 16, 2005
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oh. i should...when you create something, youve actually designed it. youre not going to say i created A and B here yet theyre not really designed. acts of intelligent agents are designs. whether they be good or bad designs, thats a different story, in terms of economies- the socialistic system would be under the bad designs category.jboze3131
November 16, 2005
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"I agree with you completely. The economy is the result of the actions of individual autonomous intelligent agents. I was not trying to argue against this. I was only trying to argue that the economy is not *designed*." there lies the problem. the fact that the economy is the result of the actions of intelligent agents means it is, in fact, designed. what else do you call it when intelligent agents act in the world to carry out activities? you call it creation. the agents involved here didnt just stumble upon the economy, they actively put the traditions, laws, regulations, customs, etc. into place- which is a creative act.jboze3131
November 16, 2005
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One more thing... "how much govt regulation there should be, how to keep prices in check, inflation under control, interest rates are carefully considered and regulated…tariffs are put into place, import and export regulations are enacted." If the libertarians had their way, there would still be an incredibly complex economy, it would just be a different one from our economy with its various regulations.cambion
November 16, 2005
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jboze3131 and geoffrobinson, "no one can reasonably argue that the economy is without guidance and not the cause of intelligent agents." "As for the economy, it is the result of the actions of intellegent agents. So just because on the macro level it is not controlled by an agent…I'm failing to see the impact. That's like saying the activity of a flock of birds, because it has patterns above the individual bird, has nothing to do with birds." I agree with you completely. The economy is the result of the actions of individual autonomous intelligent agents. I was not trying to argue against this. I was only trying to argue that the economy is not *designed*. It is an emergent property of their behavior of many intelligent agents. No one is trying to create an economy when they go grocery shopping...cambion
November 16, 2005
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Geoff Materialism is not Atheism Materialism is a form of Atheism Most Atheistic scientists are probably Naturalists. It is irrelevant because your simply using a form of Atheism to attack all Atheism Maybe you should explain why you choose Materialism as the basis for your attack first, then i will try to reason out your argument.puckSR
November 16, 2005
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Puck, this refers to the belief that the material world is all there is. Not that they listen to Madonna albums and are a material girl. Not irrelevant. If atheists are arguing against ID because it allows for the supernatural, they can't even argue with us unless they presuppose theism. That's an important point. They can't talk about design or randomness or argue using the laws of logic without presupposing theism unknowingly. That's more than interesting. That's huge. As for the economy, it is the result of the actions of intellegent agents. So just because on the macro level it is not controlled by an agent...I'm failing to see the impact. That's like saying the activity of a flock of birds, because it has patterns above the individual bird, has nothing to do with birds. Coordination among people produce patterns through individual agents who have intelligence.geoffrobinson
November 16, 2005
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Why would evolutionists ignore impossible odds, they could still keep their theory, their immoral worldview, and their atheism, all they would have to do is find the "stacking" mechanismpuckSR
November 16, 2005
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Ok wait DaveScot...now im even more confused. "ID says the deck was manipulated in order to defeat the impossible odds but doesn't say when, how, or what did the manipulation." So how does ID propose conducting research differently than current Evolutionist studies? Look for the "Designer"? If the designer is natural, wont they stumble upon it eventually, and with roughly the same speed?puckSR
November 16, 2005
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"businesses take over from lower performing competitors, but not in the same sense…" I fail to see the difference...cambion
November 16, 2005
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alright, so if all ID does is suggest that design can be detected in nature, why are Evolutionists so up in arms Couldn't Darwinian evolution be considered an algorithmic process? Therefore a designer Why do some people want to teach ID as an alternative to Darwin? They dont seem to be in any competition If ID makes no claim to the divine nature of the designer, and makes no real claim about evolution, then how is ID different than current science. The only difference i can see is that current science attributes things to a pattern, while ID claims a designer. The designer however, could be a totally natural phenomenom, such as natural selection, or a newer form of natural selection. Intelligent Design would not add any Theism into the mix, and we would be stuck with the same atheistic science model that we have always had. From what i have been able to gather, ID is simply a re-definition of how we interpret patterns in nature. We say that they are designed, then we try and discover the designer, which would wind up being the exact same thing that current scientific methodology would discover by asking..what created this pattern. I am not seeing the big difference between ID and current science. SorrypuckSR
November 16, 2005
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puckSR "Therefore, couldnt TE simply be claiming that the physical laws that govern genetics and allow for evolution were all designed by the creator?" Yes, but there's more than that. Virtually impossible odds were defeated in the origin of life - like getting dealt 100 hands of royal flushes in a row. The way TE explains it is God stacked the deck. Evolutionists just ignore the impossible odds. ID says the deck was manipulated in order to defeat the impossible odds but doesn't say when, how, or what did the manipulation.DaveScot
November 16, 2005
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"Alright, so if the Intelligent Agent could be purely natural…then the main difference between ID and current science methodology is that ID accepts the possibility of a supernatural power?" No, not really. Why are you trying to make it so complicated? ID posits that design can be detected in nature. Period. That's it. The rest of it is the mechanics of detecting.DaveScot
November 16, 2005
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no one can reasonably argue that the economy is without guidance and not the cause of intelligent agents. everyone involved in the economy is an intelligent agent acting with a purpose and cause and goal. you cannot compare this to evolution. random changes and a mechanism without purpose- if that was the way the economy worked- wed all be screwed. the economy left to itself, in a sense, is still the result of intelligent agents designing a plan of how things should work, how much govt regulation there should be, how to keep prices in check, inflation under control, interest rates are carefully considered and regulated...tariffs are put into place, import and export regulations are enacted. the economy is no way a system of accidents that reaches some miraculous final point when there was no goal to begin with. it might run on its own to a certain degree, but you cant compare this to a system in biology where survival of the fittest means killing off the lower evolved life forms and taking over. businesses take over from lower performing competitors, but not in the same sense...jboze3131
November 16, 2005
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"and of course its designed! the system in place that controls it all is surely designed." We can try to control it a bit, but really it is for the most part beyond our control. Why do you think we have recessions and so on? Design of economies has actually been tried; witness Soviet Russia. Design in this case is bad, it results in far worse solutions than letting a free-market settle things. "the economy isnt a survival of the fittest mentality in any manner." The finch evolves a beak to eat a particular kind of nut because no one else is utilizing that resource. If another species is already in this ecological niche, the finch will not have any advantage to move into it, and hence, will not evolve. It is the same with free-market economies. If there is a shortage of plumbers in town, supply and demand will dictate that pay for plumbers will increase, thus giving incentive for more people to become plumbers. Do you see how the situatins are analogous?cambion
November 16, 2005
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using the economy is nowhere near a good justification against desing but jboze...it does have a survival of the fittest mentality...in the loosest sense of the term Why do we no longer barter goods? Why do we allow government intervention? All of these systems did evolve into the current system to replace less reliable models of economic success. Also..why did communism fail in Soviet Russia? The best suited survived.puckSR
November 16, 2005
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the economy isnt a survival of the fittest mentality in any manner. and of course its designed! the system in place that controls it all is surely designed. and as a whole, its comprised of millions of intelligent agents working in a creative fashion to make an entire intelligently caused system to work. taxes have to be taken...to fund govt projects. these are designed, theyre caused by agents of intelligence, and theyre these govt projects in return make for make capital and more opportunities to spend it. and so on. the economy isnt just a bunch of random acts together to form a coherent system.jboze3131
November 16, 2005
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