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Eric Anderson: Why randomness is “the wrong tool for the job”

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Author and design theorist, Eric Anderson, clarifies the limitations of randomness in producing biological novelty.

Randomness is an important topic, true.  But not because it has, in and of itself, some deep substantive value or because it is going to help explain biological form and function.  It is important to the evolution-ID debate, primarily because it has been historically offered by evolutionary proponents as the fodder for change, the grist of the mill from which Darwin’s theory can operate, and we need to point out in the debate that this is a fool’s errand.

What does “random” mean in terms of mutations within evolutionary theory?

Despite the exciting headlines of several recent papers, it has nothing to do with whether there is some non-equal distribution across the genome, whether there are hot spots, or even what the actual cause of these mutations is behind the scenes.  That is not what we are talking about in terms of evaluating “random” mutations for evolutionary theory.

More critically, for purposes of intelligent design, we needn’t get into deep and esoteric discussions or hand wringing about what randomness actually means in some esoteric sense, whether anything in the universe is ever truly random, or even whether there is some underlying order that allows the randomness to be manifest.  And we needn’t all go back to get our PhD’s in mathematics or study number theory in depth in order to understand the issues.

For purposes of ID, the two corollary issues we need to appreciate are very simple:

First, randomness (specifically, random mutations for purposes of evolutionary theory), simply does not have the creative power to generate the biological novelty required to explain living organisms.  This has been discussed extensively in the ID literature….

Second, and more focused on the current discussion, we need to recognize that even if randomness isn’t truly random in some mathematical definitional sense, even if what appears random to us is governed by some underlying larger principles or follows discernible patterns, it still has no ability to generate the biological novelty required to explain living organisms

Law-like processes, by their very nature, are too general and generic to ever provide the specificity required to produce something like, say, the bacterial flagellum.  It doesn’t matter if we’re talking about the four fundamental forces or some underlying “order” to the universe that governs things.  It doesn’t matter how far under the hood you look–law-like forces or processes simply cannot ever provide the creative purchase required for the functional, coherent, information-rich systems we see in biology. 

Therefore, in terms of explaining biological systems, any proposed underlying order or principle or force or process that either produces what we perceive as randomness or that acts as a backdrop against which randomness is manifest, simply cannot explain what needs to be explained.  It is the wrong tool for the job.

—– Lastly, if what someone is really talking about is a guided process, then they are talking about purposeful activity–intelligent design.  Occasionally confusing terminology is put forth, such as guided evolution, or guided randomness, or God working behind the scenes to influence quantum interactions, and so on.  Let’s be clear.  If it is guided, then it isn’t evolution as proposed by Darwin, as accepted within the modern academy, or as defined in the biology textbooks.  If it is guided, then we are talking about design.

Comments
This thread is an excellent take-down of "natural selection" as it is envisioned by Darwinians. Thank you Mr. Anderson.Origenes
September 12, 2022
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Just to move forward, I clip ET's link:
Research published since my 2003 paper4 has vindicated my argument that the main nylon-degrading enzyme did not arise ‘presto’ from a frame-shift mutation. Recent reviews acknowledge that the gene, nylB, that codes for the main nylon-degrading enzyme under discussion (nylB, figure 1) came from an existing gene (nylB’) that codes for a protein that had some existing enzymatic activity for degrading nylon compounds. The enzyme was a carboxylesterase that had a particular [beta]-lactamase fold that could grab hold of and degrade nylon naturally. Because nylon is a man-made fibre, it was thought that no natural enzyme would be able to attack it. However, the basic amide bond of nylon [--> a join of NH2 to COOH, pulling out H2O] is common in living things (figure 3), so it is not surprising that an existing enzyme can degrade nylon to some extent. The popular science media tried to find a way to put an evolutionary spin on this, but the initial explanations, based on incomplete knowledge and evolutionary assumptions, were completely wrong. Even the anti-creationist Wikipedia as early as 29 June 2011 stated: “A 2007 paper that described a series of studies by a team led by Seiji Negoro of the University of Hyogo, Japan, suggested that in fact no frameshift mutation was involved in the evolution of the 6-aminohexanoic acid hydrolase.”5 ________ 4 Batten, D., The adaptation of bacteria to feeding on nylon waste, TJ (now Journal of Creation) 17(3):3–5, 2003; creation.com/nylon. Return to text. 5 See also Truman, R., Nylon-eating bacteria—part 2: refuting Ohno’s frame-shift theory, J. Creation 29(2):78–85. Return to text.
Clips help carry forward the exchange. Especially when suitably annotated. KFkairosfocus
June 9, 2022
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seversky, an article from 2004 does not rebut an article from 2017.ET
June 8, 2022
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Sev, our observational base is life on earth. Science starts with observation. So, it is enough to first address what we observe. Next, the claim that the cosmos as a whole is hostile to life is a misrepresentation. Yes, life sites will be local, in a cosmos mostly vacuum, but the physics of the cosmos, the stellar fusion furnaces, the supernovas, the spiral galactic structures and framework for life hosting sol systems are all setting the stage so cannot rightly be deemed hostile to life in general. Yes, the processes have extremes but so do steel, petroleum, electricity generation etc industries. Do we hold that industrial society is mostly hostile to industrial products? No. So, our thinking needs rebalancing. KFkairosfocus
June 8, 2022
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seversky:
So you are allowing that the originators of life on Earth could have been some form of advanced alien intelligence. That’s fine as far as it goes but who created the alien intelligence and what was the origin of life itself?
You are clearly ignorant of science. One step at a time, duh. And your personal incredulity is not an argument.ET
June 8, 2022
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Relatd/136
https://creation.com/nylonase-update
Nylonase Enzymes Seversky
June 8, 2022
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Kairosfocus/146
The point is, Venter et al put molecular nanotech lab on the table, and that cannot be simply dismissed. The issue becomes whose lab and how it works.
So you are allowing that the originators of life on Earth could have been some form of advanced alien intelligence. That's fine as far as it goes but who created the alien intelligence and what was the origin of life itself?
That takes us to fine tuning and the inference that physics of the cosmos was intended to foster life.
The parameters which allow the cosmos to exist may have been finely tuned but it's hard to see that they were tuned for life to exist given that the Earth appears to be a tiny oasis of life in a Universe that is otherwise overwhelmingly hostile to it.Seversky
June 8, 2022
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PS, overnight, I think 106 is also relevant: KF, 106: >>CD, logic and context. The world of life can plausibly be explained on a molecular nanotech lab as was specifically stated so you are — predictably — setting up and knocking over a strawman. Next, the physics and parameters of the cosmos set it to a fine tuned operating point that enables c chem, aqueous medium cell based life. By basic logic of being the cosmos cannot create itself or come from utter non being and by the supertask it cannot have traversed a transfinite physical, causal temporal past. That requires extracosmic, necessary being designer. And we note you don’t have a cogent substantial reply on the point. In that context taking a lab as a plausible context the issue is who ran it. >> This of course also sets context for relatd's cite from Dembski. The point is, Venter et al put molecular nanotech lab on the table, and that cannot be simply dismissed. The issue becomes whose lab and how it works. For instance a computational, cybernetic facility with depth of knowledge of polymer science and the cell/organism under contemplation could write the d/rna and protein on parallel tracks, then fab them using a built in Drexler nanotech assembler that implements a von Neumann kinematic self replicator. Thus both the chicken and its egg would be coeval. We could imagine a supercomputer based Drexler fab facility, but equally that raises whose lab, and why is our world amenable to life based on such technologies. That takes us to fine tuning and the inference that physics of the cosmos was intended to foster life.kairosfocus
June 8, 2022
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CD, brazen doubling down as you snipped out of my comment to make up and knock over a strawman. Rolling tape: CD: 61 >>chuckdarwin June 7, 2022 at 9:59 am Compare Also, ID does not require the supernatural. with It is a cosmos fine tuned for life in many ways that requires an extracosmic (sic), powerful and capable designer. So, which is it, gentlemen?>> Where, if you clipped out that sentence you surely should have recognised what preceded it: KF, 58 >>just to scotch another barbed talking point, intelligent design is about intelligently directed configuration, detected from observable reliable signs. Evidence supporting design is adequate to hold it plausible a designer was present at relevant points. For life a molecular nanotech lab some generations beyond Venter is enough. It is a cosmos fine tuned for life in many ways that requires an extracosmic, powerful and capable designer. Notice, objectors seldom address fine tuning substantially and cogently, so they are setting up and knocking over strawmen.>> Where, CD, 137: CD, 137: >>For some reason you seem to read much more into some of my comments than is there (and you invariably read in a “strawman” regardless of what my comment says). In this instance, my comment at @61 was simply that ET claims @57 that “ID does not require the supernatural.” In the very next post (58) you claim that ID “requires an extracosmic, powerful and capable designer.”>> In short, you proceeded to do precisely what I spoke of in advance in 58, and now want to pretend that I am reading into the matter what is not there, Brazen. KFkairosfocus
June 7, 2022
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"Dembski notes that atheists use mindless evolution to provide a God-free explanation for life and the universe. Intelligent design checks that move, showing that blind material processes couldn’t have created many things in nature, much less the cosmos itself. Intelligent design is the better explanation. What about the idea that an alien created, say, the first life on Earth (intelligent design without the need for God)? Dembski says that idea–one that some atheists have suggested as a fallback explanation—is a poor explanatory substitute for an immaterial intelligent designer." Source: https://idthefuture.com/1595/relatd
June 7, 2022
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Intelligent design requires neither a meddling God nor a meddled world. For that matter, it doesn't even require there be a God.- Wm. Dembski
“Darwinism does not mandate followers to adopt atheism; just as intelligent design doesn't require a belief in God.” - Guillermo Gonzalez
ET
June 7, 2022
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CD
It is impossible to take seriously a self-proclaimed science in which its devotees cannot even agree upon its most basic tenet.
That would make evolution a self-proclaimed science that is impossible to take seriously.Silver Asiatic
June 7, 2022
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Supernatural is a theologically oriented term that speaks of God.
The Supernatural Order is the ensemble of effects exceeding the powers of the created universe and gratuitously produced by God for the purpose of raising the rational creature above its native sphere to a God-like life and destiny.
Extra-cosmic is a term that physicists use to speak of something outside of the universe but not carrying a theological meaning:
Physicists have proposed extra cosmic ingredients that could explain the faster-than-expected expansion of space https://www.quantamagazine.org/why-is-the-universe-expanding-so-fast-20200427/
In other words, just like ID - they don't identify a designer. They're talking about a "state of being" that is inferred as outside the universe. Just as ID infers an intelligence as the designing agent.Silver Asiatic
June 7, 2022
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ET/138 Well there you have it……..chuckdarwin
June 7, 2022
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Chuckdarwin It is impossible to take seriously a self-proclaimed science in which its devotees cannot even agree upon its most basic tenet.
Look at you , you believe that atoms have magical powers .Lieutenant Commander Data
June 7, 2022
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Well, chuck, Drs Behe and Minnich testified, under oath, that ID does not require the supernatural. And extracosmic does not mean supernaturalET
June 7, 2022
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KF/106 For some reason you seem to read much more into some of my comments than is there (and you invariably read in a "strawman" regardless of what my comment says). In this instance, my comment at @61 was simply that ET claims @57 that "ID does not require the supernatural." In the very next post (58) you claim that ID "requires an extracosmic, powerful and capable designer." I don't see any difference between "supernatural" and "extra-cosmic." So, I'm faced with contrary claims about ID from two of the most vocal ID proponents on this blog. It is impossible to take seriously a self-proclaimed science in which its devotees cannot even agree upon its most basic tenet.chuckdarwin
June 7, 2022
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https://creation.com/nylonase-updaterelatd
June 7, 2022
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And what does nylon resemble chemically?kairosfocus
June 7, 2022
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LCD:
Congratulation, there is no difference between you and materialists!
Telic processes are not reducible to matter or energy. Information is not reducible to matter or energy. Life is not reducible to matter or energy. Materialistic processes did not produce life. Minds are not reducible to physics and chemistry. Clearly there is a HUGE differenceET
June 7, 2022
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I cannot prevent people from believing God did it. Which God? Why yours? I know nature didn't do it- produce life.ET
June 7, 2022
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ET LCD: If nothing natural can account for emergence of life then must be something super-natural. Telic processes. Natural processes didn’t produce Stonehenge, telic processes did. Heck, natural processes only exist in nature and because of that could not have produced it.
:) Congratulation, there is no difference between you and materialists!Lieutenant Commander Data
June 7, 2022
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ET at 130, The point is this: You are not an accident, OK? You are not related to an ape, OK? There are those hovering around here that know some who see the evidence for ID immediately tie in their beliefs. The designer is God. Period. You can say ID and religion/God/beliefs are not connected all day, but some people make the direct connection.relatd
June 7, 2022
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We may never know. Reality dictates that in the absence of direct observation or designer input, the ONLY possible way to make any scientific determination about the who or how, is by studying the design and all relevant evidence. Do you think we could get to the Wright Brothers by studying planes? What would even be the point?ET
June 7, 2022
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ET at 127, If something - anything - was designed, who designed it? So you detected design - who made it?relatd
June 7, 2022
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Great. The moron twins are doing unsightly things to a strawman.ET
June 7, 2022
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Relatd- Intelligent DESIGN is about the- wait for it- DESIGN! We don't even ask about the who or how until AFTER intelligent design has been detected. ID is about the detection and study of [intelligent] design in nature.ET
June 7, 2022
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I'm out for the rest of the day and maybe tomorrow.Fred Hickson
June 7, 2022
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Earth to seversky- How to get at the carbon is all that is needed. Meaning how to break apart chemical bonds to secure the nutrients required, is that forethought involved.ET
June 7, 2022
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Pretty prescient designer who foresaw that the waste-products from nylon manufacture would be a handy food source for bacteria billions of years before bacteria or nylon existed.
And how was the front-loading switched on in 1935? It is a mystery!Fred Hickson
June 7, 2022
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