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A Materialist Gets It (Almost)

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A recent exchange with Allan Keith illustrates how materialists have allowed their intellect to become literally enslaved to their metaphysical commitments.  Allan proves one can understand the logic fully and even accept the logic.  And then turn right around and deny the conclusions compelled by the logic.  Let’s see how:

We will pick up the exchange where Allan has admitted that we have countless trillions of examples of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity caused by humans.

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Barry:

You admit that we have countless trillions of examples of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity from humans. So far so good.

What is it about humans that enables them to cause those things Allan? Intelligence.

So now we have countless trillions of examples of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity from humans on account of their intelligence.

We have observed exactly ZERO instances of any other cause accounting for functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity.

Put it together Allan. Human intelligence is the only certainly known source of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity.

Therefore, when we see functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity whose origins we do not know, we have a choice:

1 Attribute it to the only cause known with certainty to produce it, i.e. intelligence.
2 Attribute it to causes that have never been observed producing it.

Answer 1 is obviously best.

Allan responds:

Option 1 does not follow from your logic. The logical option 1 would be:  Attribute it to the only cause known with certainty to produce it, i.e. Human intelligence.

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I understand Allan’s metaphysical commitments prevent him from following the logic beyond a certain point, but his response is still very sad.  I wonder if he ever gets tired of wearing those blinkers.

What is wrong with Allan’s reply?  It steadfastly ignores the glaringly obvious fact that intelligence (not the more narrow “human intelligence”) is the causal factor.

In other words, the thing about humans that makes them a special case is not that they are a member of the Animalia kingdom, or the Chordata phylum, or the Mammalia class, or the Primate order, or the Homo genus or the Homo sapiens species.  The thing that distinguishes humans is reflected in the name of the species.  (“Homo sapiens” means literally “wise man.”) The distinguishing characteristic of the species is intelligence.

It is that characteristic and nothing else that accounts for the ability of Homo sapiens to cause functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity.*

Now it is certainly true that the species Homo sapiens is the only species of which we have observational evidence that it causes functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity.  Allan seems to believe that fact compels the conclusion that we can infer only “human design” from an observed instance of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity.

Nonsense.  Not even Allan’s fellow materialists agree with him:

BEN STEIN: What do you think is the possibility that Intelligent Design might turn out to be the answer to some issues in genetics or in Darwinian evolution.

DAWKINS: Well, it could come about in the following way. It could be that at some earlier time, somewhere in the universe, a civilization evolved, probably by some kind of Darwinian means, probably to a very high level of technology, and designed a form of life that they seeded onto perhaps this planet. Um, now that is a possibility, and an intriguing possibility. And I suppose it’s possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the details of biochemistry, molecular biology, you might find a signature of some sort of designer. . . . And that Designer could well be a higher intelligence from elsewhere in the universe.  But that higher intelligence would itself have had to have come about by some explicable, or ultimately explicable process. It couldn’t have just jumped into existence spontaneously. That’s the point

Dawkins understands, as Allan apparently does not, that it is the intelligence, not its instantiation in any particular species, that is important when it comes to inferring design.

UPDATE:

To his credit, Allan now admits the obvious:

Design inference is based almost solely on a comparison to human design. This can certainly be used to infer design in biology . . .

But he cannot resist adding an unwarranted disclaimer:

. . . but with only one known source of intelligence as a frame of reference, the inference is weak. That is statistical reality speaking, not me. But even a weak inference can strengthen support for ID if there were other avenues of examination that support ID.

Why does Allan consider the inference weak?  Because his metaphysical commitments, not logic, compel that conclusion.  Again, here is the logic:

  1. Object X exhibits functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity.
  2. The ONLY KNOWN CAUSE of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity is design by an intelligent agent.
  3. Inferring to best explanation, the only known cause of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity (i.e., intelligent design) is the cause of the functional complexity, semiosis or  irreducible complexity in Object X.

Allan insists the inference is “weak,” even though he admits the inference as to cause is to the only known cause of the phenomenon.  Why?  Statistics.  Nonsense.  It is not a statistical analysis.  It is a logical analysis.

 

 

 

_____________

*Let’s not get bogged down with beavers and bees.  The international space station is obviously different in kind and not merely degree from a beaver dam.  Anyone who denies this disqualifies themselves from being considered serious.

 

Comments
JVL: "Even if that were true (and it’s only a hypothesis) then you haven’t shown the presence of an intelligent agent at the time you claim design was implemented. No designer arounds means there couldn’t have been design." Please, read my previous comment at #10. The presence of an intelligent agent is clearly shown by the designed objects. As there is no other credible explanation for those objects, the scientific approach is to accept design as the best theory. Because design has the explanatory power needed for functional information, and all the rest. To falsify that perfectly viable theory, it's you who should demonstrate that there were "no designers around". At present, that's only the personal belief of some people.gpuccio
March 23, 2018
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EricMH: This is the usual Bayesian objection to the ID inference for biological objects. I remember I debated it long time ago with Mark Frank. But the simple point is: Pr{E|R} is indeed so infinitesimal that it is not a viable explanation at all. Gnomes from the planet Xenon would definitely be preferable to an explanation which is empirically impossible. An explanation that is empirically impossible is the denial of science and of all its principles. It's not a case that "scientists" are recurring to multiverse and similar scenarios as an extreme defense of that ridiculous idea. Now, let's go to the problem of Pr{I}. The simple truth is that no prior probability can be assessed for that hypothesis. Why? Because, as I have said many times, while it is possible that the biological designer(s) acted through a physical body (as we humans do), it is also perfectly possible, and indeed more likely, that the biological designer(s) was some conscious and intelligent agent who has not a physical body, but can interact with physical matter through some form of interface. So, as you can say, this is not any more a problem of prior probability: it is a problem of general worldview. I suppose that you will agree that there are worldviews that have no difficulties at all in admitting the existence of possible conscious agents who have not a physical body, and there are worldviews who deny that possibility. Both types of worldview are widely shared among humans, and have philosophical counterparts. So, you can certainly see that your: Pr{I} is not a prior probability at all: it is just a prior commitment to a specific ideology. Science cannot accept such an ideological bias.gpuccio
March 23, 2018
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The ONLY KNOWN CAUSE of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity is design by an intelligent agent. Even if that were true (and it's only a hypothesis) then you haven't shown the presence of an intelligent agent at the time you claim design was implemented. No designer arounds means there couldn't have been design.JVL
March 23, 2018
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To outside_observer@1, If ID is true then the designer is most likely outside of this universe. And the universe itself is part of the design.Eugene
March 22, 2018
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Eric, Again, the argument is not a statistical one. It not a probabilistic one. It is a logical one. Why is that so hard to grasp Eric?Barry Arrington
March 22, 2018
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John "Dawkins later tried to walk back his position" Of course he did. What else was he going to do after being caught in a moment of honesty?Barry Arrington
March 22, 2018
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To be fair I think Dawkins later tried to walk back his position… But the point remains, until you prove how life first originated by natural causes alone intelligent design is a logical possibility. Dawkins is not the only atheist to discuss the possibility of intelligent design. I discuss that more in the following post. https://uncommondescent.com/origin-of-life/jad-on-self-replicating-machines-and-ool/#comment-654388john_a_designer
March 22, 2018
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@3 groovamos I was not arguing for not believing in God. Quite the contrary. I was trying to illustrate that the materialistic dogma is so determined for there to be no God that it would rather believe in aliens that we have no evidence for than believe in an Ultimate Creator of any kind. Even if Intelligent Design is proved beyond a shadow of a doubt on earth, then the materialistic dodge would be to ascribe it to an unknown alien race in the distant past who someway, somehow, just *must* have evolved from nothing. Because someway, somehow, materialism must be right. And so, in essence they just kick the can down the road, substituting the distant unobserved past of earth, with the distant, unobserved past of an unknown alien planet. But it really brings nothing new to the table. Because, even if there was such a race of beings, we could still argue about whether they were created or whether they were just the product of their own kind of random evolution. OR, maybe the evidence would be so strong that they were the product of intelligent design that we would have to conclude that there was yet ANOTHER race of extraterrestrial beings prior to them that was responsible for their creation. But were they created or did they just come from nothing? And so on and so forth ad infinitum. The point is that, even if there are no options left, the materialist dogma would still rather believe in speculations such as ancient aliens than to believe in an Ultimate Creator.outside_observer
March 22, 2018
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Anything just so long as we don’t have to believe in God. Of course you don't. But your other race of extraterrestrial beings would have to believe in a sort of demigod intellectual figurehead equivalent of Darwin if materialism is true. Have you thought about how you would reconcile their likely rejection of the demigod Darwin in favor of theirs, if you were to meet them? Would you be able to laugh with them at the 19th century non-scientist held out as such a revered figure, sort of like how Mohammed and Darwin are ridiculed by some nowadays? Or would you proselytise for Darwin and get defensive such as materialists always do?groovamos
March 22, 2018
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Allan's point is understandable with probability. Say E is the designed event. I is the intelligence hypothesis and R is the random hypothesis. Obviously, Pr{E|I} >> Pr{E|R}. But, we do not know the probabilities for I and R. Pr{I} and Pr{R} could be such that Pr{E,R} >> Pr{E,I}. In this case, R is actually the best explanation for E. Another way to put it, imagine the explanation that makes computers most likely is outer space gnomes from the planet Xenon. We might then be tempted to explain computers with the gnomes. But, these gnomes cannot exist. Therefore, they are a bad explanation, despite being the explanation that makes computers most likely.EricMH
March 22, 2018
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But that higher intelligence would itself have had to have come about by some explicable, or ultimately explicable process. It couldn’t have just jumped into existence spontaneously. That’s the point
Another instance of the ancient alien fallacy. There is no ultimate creator. Even if ID is true for creatures on earth, it's only because some other race of extraterrestrial beings evolved before us. It doesn't matter that the same challenges of Darwinian evolution that we see on earth would likely apply to them. We can't observe it, so we can just assume it happened. Anything just so long as we don't have to believe in God.outside_observer
March 22, 2018
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