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At Evolution News: Günter Bechly repudiates “Professor Dave’s” attacks against ID

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Günter Bechly, Senior Fellow of the Center for Science and Culture, addresses the off-base accusations made against ID and the Discovery Institute.

Dave Farina is an atheist American YouTuber who runs a channel called Professor Dave Explains with almost two million subscribers.

The clichés and misrepresentations Farina recycles about intelligent design are beyond tired. Still, those new to the debate might find it helpful to see Farina’s false claims debunked.

Farina seems more interested in caricaturing those he disagrees with than understanding them.

Three Major Problems 

Farina also thinks that intelligent design theory “cannot be validated as real science because it does not explain or predict anything.” Here are three major problems with this statement:

Who defines what qualifies as “real science”? It is certainly not Dave Farina. It is not judges in court rooms. And it is not even the scientists themselves who define “science.” Reasonably, it is philosophers of science who address this question. But Farina seems to be totally ignorant of the fact that there is no consensus among philosophers of science about a demarcation criterion that could reliably distinguish science from non-science. Any criterion yet suggested, including Karl Popper’s criterion of falsifiability, either excludes too much (e.g., scientific fields like string theory or evolutionary biology) or includes too much (e.g., homeopathy or parapsychology).

Of course, intelligent design has explanatory power. Otherwise, we could not even explain the existence of Romeo and Juliet by the intelligent agency of William Shakespeare. There is no doubt that the designing activity of an intelligent agent is a perfectly valid explanation for complex specified patterns. The only question under debate is whether such patterns are confined to the realm of human cultural artifacts or if they are also found in nature. But this question should not be decided by dogmatic a priorirestrictions of certain worldviews that do not allow for design explanations whatever the evidence might be, but should rather follow the evidence wherever it leads. It is an empirical question to be decided by the data.

It is simply false that intelligent design does not predict anything. Indeed, this is yet another common stereotype that has been refuted so many times by ID proponents that any further use of this argument can be based only on a total ignorance of the facts (or perhaps deliberate lying, but I prefer not to apply that interpretation). Stephen Meyer (2009) included in his book Signature in the Cell a whole chapter with a dozen predictions inspired by intelligent design theory. These are often very precise and easily falsifiable, for example: “No undirected process will demonstrate the capacity to generate 500 bits of new [specified] information starting from a nonbiological source.” Just write a computer simulation that achieves this, without smuggling the information in through a backdoor, and you can claim victory over a core prediction of intelligent design.

Evolution News

Dr. Bechly addresses numerous additional misfires attempted by Professor Dave. With such a voluble spray of baseless accusations coming from someone like Professor Dave, it can be helpful to be reminded of the proverb, “Like a sparrow in its flitting, like a swallow in its flying, a curse that is causeless does not alight.” (Proverbs 26:2)

Comments
FH at 870, I'm an individual not a parrot. No boilerplate on me. Get over it, Fred. Your political ideology drives you. It's time to examine some ridiculous statements and call them ridiculous.relatd
July 8, 2022
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"The codons and anticodons match due to stereochemistry, not syntax." You're confused. The code is the matching between codons/anticodons and amino acids, not between codons and anti-codons. Look up a genetic code table. Again, stereochemistry has nothing to do with it because there's not even any physical contact between the anti-codon of the tRNA and the amino acid when they bind to the aaRS. You keep insisting that the explanation of the code lies in stereochemistry, this is simply wrong and has been known for ages.Jblais
July 8, 2022
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. Relatd, you can take it from here. Bye to all.Upright BiPed
July 8, 2022
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JVL at 868, Why do you answer the question? Why bother asking me? If you don't believe in God that's up to you. Some of the greatest scientists gave God credit for their discoveries but that's ignored. Science has become god for some. 'Show me God. If you can show me God I might believe in him.'relatd
July 8, 2022
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I have to say, Relatd, that is the ID boilerplate argument clear and unadorned. I commend you for your straightforward clarification.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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UB: A language system is an identifiable physical organization. It has distinct parts with physical and organizational criteria that are well known. There are two places that the physical sciences can document this organization; one of them is in written language and the other is in the gene system. Fred can deny this as he chooses, but his denial won’t change the facts recorded in the literature over the past 50+ years. Fred: Well, that’s vague enough to be undeniable. So what? UB: Fred does the gene system utilize a rate-independent medium, where the spatial orientation of objects within a finite set of symbol vehicles (codons) is used to distinguish one referent from another? Is the end result of the process contingent on memory (description) of a set of constraints that establish the relationships between the codons and their referents? If so, please provide an example of another system known to the physical sciences that uses that architecture – one that does not entail language. Fred: The genetic code and how it functions with DNA and RNA and aaRSs relies at all points on stereochemical affinities UB: All physical objects obey physical law, that is hardly the question. Are you able to provide an example of another system known to the physical sciences that uses that architecture – one that does not also entail language – or are you not able? It was your claim, so support it. Fred: Tell you what Upright Biped. You choose whatever answer you would like and proceed from there. It’s boring playing gotcha with you.
The answer is the one I gave at the top, as stated in the literature.Upright BiPed
July 8, 2022
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Relatd: Miracles are investigated by the Congregation for Saints Causes. In case after case, including an investigation involving Naval personnel that included clear evidence of impossible things happening, the only conclusion they could draw was that they had no scientific explanation. That still doesn't answer my question: Can we do science with God? In other words: can we check a God-based prediction and repeat that If not that's fine. I'm happy if you say no, we can't do God-based science.JVL
July 8, 2022
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The Language of DNA https://www.crigenetics.com/blog/the-language-of-dna Each codon designates an amino acid. For example, the codon TAT codes for the amino acid Tyrosine. If we continue our analogy, this makes each codon a “word.” But words alone aren’t enough to convey meaning. You need to string words together to form sentences. In the same way, amino acids combine together through DNA translation to form proteins. To continue the metaphor of language, sentences aren’t the only part of a written document. Writers clump similar sentences together into paragraphs. And the same is true for proteins. Individual units of protein may come together to form something larger than themselves.Silver Asiatic
July 8, 2022
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FH at 864, Back to mindlessly quoting from the Leftist handbook, Behaviors and Characteristics of ALL Conservatives? Wake up Fred. Are people individuals? Do the police arrest everyone at the scene of a crime? While Leftists promote TOTALLY idiotic concepts like non-binary, you think all Conservatives are cookie-cutter copies of each other? WAKE up - now. From the moment I saw candidate Trump, I had two thoughts: This man is rude and uncivilized and two, he is not suitable to be the President of anything, much less a country.relatd
July 8, 2022
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JVL at 861, Even the Catholic Church understands what science does. How it works. However, it's evident that some scientific claims cannot be demonstrated. Like the origin of a digital code in DNA. Miracles are investigated by the Congregation for Saints Causes. In case after case, including an investigation involving Naval personnel that included clear evidence of impossible things happening, the only conclusion they could draw was that they had no scientific explanation. So it is clear that there is an area beyond science where it can see evidence of the impossible but not know what it means. The Catholic Church can provide the rest of the story, the full answer. Man, for example, cannot be explained in purely scientific terms.relatd
July 8, 2022
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Hey. Don’t take out your anti-Catholic rage on me. Checks notes. I was right. I cannot appoint anyone to the Supreme Court. So leave me alone.
I'll let you off if you didn't vote for Trump.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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I suggest you translate everything you write into plain English.
You should tell that to UB.
That way, there can be no translation errors or definition errors. People, average people, do not use stereochemistry or syntax in everyday conversations.
Absolutely correct, Relatd. What time is it?Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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FH at 859, Hey. Don't take out your anti-Catholic rage on me. Checks notes. I was right. I cannot appoint anyone to the Supreme Court. So leave me alone.relatd
July 8, 2022
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Relatd: My answer, and the answer of the Catholic Church regarding the identity of the designer is God. Can we do science with God? Can we test a God-based prediction? I'm happy for your faith and will defend to the death your right to hold it. But that doesn't make it science. Science is about predictable and repeatable phenomenon, independent of the observer(s). I've heard that God works from known and understood moral standards so you'd think you could provide a predictable, God-based outcome. But I've yet to see such a thing. Not saying it doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen one.JVL
July 8, 2022
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FH at 856, I suggest you translate everything you write into plain English. That way, there can be no translation errors or definition errors. People, average people, do not use stereochemistry or syntax in everyday conversations. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/stereochemistryrelatd
July 8, 2022
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Well your Catholic Supreme Court is doing just that, Relatd. And don't get me started on Tuam.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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FH at 857, Oh no! I have not committed the SECULAR sin of "imposing." Cut the crap, OK? Everybody writes what they want, but the moment I mention God or religion, I'm imposing on others? Crap.relatd
July 8, 2022
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My answer, and the answer of the Catholic Church regarding the identity of the designer is God.
That's fine, Relatd, and you are entitled to make that choice for you but not impose it on others. There do seem a lot of Catholics here at Uncommon Descent.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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@ Jblais Apart from anything else, the genetic code doesn't have any linguistic rules. The codons and anticodons match due to stereochemistry, not syntax.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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FH at 845, DNA is a digital code. There is no evidence of natural processes producing anything like this. Anything with this level of complexity. Evolution, as advertised in Biology textbooks, is false. Design is the correct answer. Whoever did the designing was intelligent. In other words, the opposite of blind, unguided chance. My answer, and the answer of the Catholic Church regarding the identity of the designer is God.relatd
July 8, 2022
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Yes, Jblais, I certainly don't confuse a language with a code. In discussing both concepts, there may be an overlap. I sometimes use coded language with my wife. But they not the same thing.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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"You are as capable of citing definitions as I am." Indeed, I define both languages and codes as systems of symbolic representation involving syntax and semantics. You must define them differently I guess.Jblais
July 8, 2022
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Tell you what Upright Biped. You choose whatever answer you would like and proceed from there. It's boring playing gotcha with you.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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. So, no answer. Okay.Upright BiPed
July 8, 2022
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It was your claim, so support it.
What was my claim? Can you cite it? Quote my exact words, perhaps?Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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But that doesn’t answer the question.
You are as capable of citing definitions as I am.
Why exactly do you think there’s a difference ?
Why? Why anything! There is no ultimate answer to why, other than your Creator (then why a Creator!) or I don't know.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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UB: Fred does the gene system utilize a rate-independent medium, where the spatial orientation of objects within a finite set of symbol vehicles (codons) is used to distinguish one referent from another? Is the end result of the process contingent on memory (description) of a set of constraints that establish the relationships between the codons and their referents? If so, please provide an example of another system known to the physical sciences that uses that architecture – one that does not entail language. Fred: The genetic code and how it functions with DNA and RNA and aaRSs relies at all points on stereochemical affinities
All physical objects obey physical law, that is hardly the question. Are you able to provide an example of another system known to the physical sciences that uses that architecture – one that does not also entail language - or are you not able? It was your claim, so support itUpright BiPed
July 8, 2022
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Querius: “I can see that I’ve won the argument by your resorting to abuse.” I think one warning should be sufficient. Tell that to ET.JVL
July 8, 2022
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Kairosfocus @804,
Q, the just above shows one of the problems with the ignore the trolls model, giving them free rhetorical kicks at goal and undermining the force of the points we have to make.
You may be right. Also consider what the hierarchies of goals of a typical troll. They could include a. To waste the time and energy of serious contributors. b. To create a hostile, confrontational, and intimidating environment. c. To disrupt or sidetrack a conversation.
Instead, I think we can first treat objectors as reasonable people.
Yes, absolutely!
Those who resort to rhetorical stunts, misrepresentations and fallacies can be exposed.
I think identifying rhetorical stunts, etc. is better than responding to them directly. As Proverbs warns, "Do not answer a fool according to his folly lest he become wise in his own eyes" and "Answer a fool as his folly deserves." Not in the Bible, but also one of my favorites is, "Don't wrestle with a pig. You both get muddy and the pig likes it."
Those who become snide, we can further expose for their evasions, distractions and toxic tone. Beyond a certain point, we can point out that they have been definitively answered, with links; the repeating the failed arguments game is thus exposed.
I like this stratified approach.
Those who cross the line into abuse, get banned. In the case of FH, by his own words, he has been banned several times, of course he wants to suggest that we are censoring what we cannot cogently answer [hence the reply just above, demonstrating the contrary for record], but there is reason to believe that overwhelmingly banning from UD has been for cause. KF
Yes, good. A common expression in the UK, is/was something like "I can see that I've won the argument by your resorting to abuse." I think one warning should be sufficient. Thanks, -QQuerius
July 8, 2022
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Relatd, What point are you making with the link to that article which at first glance seems uncontroversial?Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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