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At Evolution News: Stuart Burgess Informs Evolutionist Nathan Lents on the Design Genius of the Ankle and Wrist

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David Klinghoffer writes:

When engineers educate evolutionists about where their theory falls short, the results can be enlightening and entertaining. Sometimes they are spectacular. That’s the case with distinguished mechanical engineer Stuart Burgess and his presentation at the recent Westminster Conference on Science and Faith. Burgess addresses some claims of forensic scientist Nathan Lents in the latter’s 2018 book, Human Errors: A Panorama of Our Glitches, from Pointless Bones to Broken Genes. As Burgess says, “It should be called Lents’s Errors.”

Professor Lents is a proponent of the “unintelligent design” hypothesis. He looks at engineering marvels like the human wrist and ankle and sees only “blunders,” “pointless bones,” “anatomical errors.” Burgess has studied those wonders of biology more closely than Lents has and explains in detail why they are, in fact, “ingenious” solutions to engineering problems that leave the genius of human engineers far behind. Burgess is simply on fire. You’ve got to watch this:

Evolution News

Comments
AF, acknowledgement of evident fact is not mere arbitrary labelling. Protein synthesis involves use of coded mRNA, to direct start, elongation and stop for AA chains that go on to form the proteins of life. That you are desperate to belittle or dismiss that is strong reason to recognise its powerful significance. KFkairosfocus
September 22, 2022
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AF, First, it is not empty labelling but recognition of character, stepwise, goal directed finite process. But then, you have yet to cogently explain your attempt to dismiss recognition of codes in this process, as say Lehninger notes:
"The information in DNA is encoded in its linear (one-dimensional) sequence of deoxyribonucleotide subunits . . . . A linear sequence of deoxyribonucleotides in DNA codes (through an intermediary, RNA) for the production of a protein with a corresponding linear sequence of amino acids . . . Although the final shape of the folded protein is dictated by its amino acid sequence, the folding of many proteins is aided by “molecular chaperones” . . . The precise three-dimensional structure, or native conformation, of the protein is crucial to its function." [Principles of Biochemistry, 8th Edn, 2021, pp 194 – 5. Now authored by Nelson, Cox et al, Lehninger having passed on in 1986. Attempts to rhetorically pretend on claimed superior knowledge of Biochemistry, that D/RNA does not contain coded information expressing algorithms using string data structures, collapse. We now have to address the implications of language, goal directed stepwise processes and underlying sophisticated polymer chemistry and molecular nanotech in the heart of cellular metabolism and replication.]
KFkairosfocus
September 19, 2022
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BobSinclair Universe from nothing, boom ID defeated ? https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/
:lol:
"With electrons and positrons (or “holes”) being created out of literally nothing, just ripped out of the quantum vacuum by electric fields themselves, it’s yet another way that the Universe demonstrates the seemingly impossible: we really can make something from absolutely nothing!"
Boom , nonsense no. 124654356 of atheists that say that quantum vacuum and electric field is "literally nothing". We wait for the next nonsense. I bet will come soon. :lol:Lieutenant Commander Data
September 19, 2022
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Universe from nothing, boom ID defeated ;) https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/BobSinclair
September 19, 2022
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All processes are already taking place in the cell.
What does your labelling some cellular processes as "algorithmic" add to understanding of those processes?Alan Fox
September 19, 2022
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WitnessFTP
AF @33 Selection is not random
It most certainly is. The vast majority of life is made up of random events. Survival is all about randomness.
Not really. You confound randomness with stochastic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY0d5HTLIBk&t=2120s
Having certain traits (all randomly mutated by the way) can help increase the chance of survival but cannot guarantee survival
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY0d5HTLIBk&t=2505sLieutenant Commander Data
September 19, 2022
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AF @ 49 "Immediate niche..." I think that's an absolutely tautologous concept. There's an interesting chapter in the book "What Darwin Got Wrong" you might like. It's called "Did the Dodo Lose its Niche? Or Was it the Other Way Around?" It's the only chapter that I did not find horrendously opaque. The whole book certainly stimulated thought though.hnorman42
September 19, 2022
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Alan Fox That raises a few questions. Where are these algorithms written and stored until needed? What is the trigger? What does the switching?
:) What I said is not even something new .All processes are already taking place in the cell. It's time for you to learn something new even you probably are 80 years old but you are still young . ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_signaling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptor_(biochemistry) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_switch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_protein-coupled_receptor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_transduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_signalling_pathways https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_silencing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_expression Well, raising questions is the best path to knowledge than to assert nonsense phrases like you did:
Life learns. Play the game of life or die.
Your assertion ("Life learns") explains everything and doesn't rise any question ,right? but my assertion (Layers of preseted algorithms turnes on/off ) rise questions?Lieutenant Commander Data
September 19, 2022
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The theory of evolution by random variation and natural selection? Not heard of that
Doubling down on stupidity by adding even more nonsense. Proposes a theory that ID supports for genetics but is inconsequential for Evolution. Even more support for ID. Still no facts But there’s more.
Cargo cult
Resort to ad hominems is final support for ID. From the person who wanted a reasonable discussion. QED jerry
September 19, 2022
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How did life acquire this property of the ability to learn?
There's a starting assumption (also an observation) for the theory of evolution that entities exist that are capable of self-sustaining (temporarily resisting entropy by using an energy source) and self-replicating. The learning is the modifications that result from imperfect replication and differential reproduction. Genomes store, copy and pass on that learning.
How was life able to not die prior to acquiring this property?
Evolutionary theory does not address where the first self-sustaining self-replicators came from. That is the "origin of life" question, as yet unanswered.
Does the Darwin paradigm describe a Turing Complete environment?
Not familiar with Turing completeness but I would guess not.
What does the Darwin paradigm offer by way of making predictions when initial conditions are known?
Not sure what you are asking. I don't think strict determinism holds for our reality; not for evolution nor for anything else. Unless extinction happens, evolution is a continuous process where change is dependent on the immediate niche.Alan Fox
September 19, 2022
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Having certain traits (all randomly mutated by the way) can help increase the chance of survival but cannot guarantee survival.
Which is an excellent example of selection being non-random.
No, that is an excellent example of selection being random - the key word is chance. So, increasing the chances of survival means decreasing the randomness, but the randomness cannot be entirely eliminated or guaranteed.
Life responds the same as an autopilot. Even if an observer can have the(false) impression of randomness actually nothing is happening randomnly . All life forms ( from simple forms to humans )constitute very complex cybernetic systems that have a preseted purpose and can’t survive responding randomly to random stimuli.
I'm not saying that life responds randomly to random stimuli nor am I saying that all survival is 100% random. I'm saying that random events certainly influence, to a greater or lesser degree, survival. For example: humans can adapt to random events by making conscious decisions (free will). This reduces the random influence but cannot eliminate it. So, despite using our brains, experience, and knowledge, random events (anticipated or unanticipated) can and do thwart our best laid plans.WitnessFTP
September 18, 2022
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Alan Fox: Life learns. Play the game of life or die. I've been think about this lately, and I have a few questions: How did life acquire this property of the ability to learn? How was life able to not die prior to acquiring this property? Does the Darwin paradigm describe a Turing Complete environment? What does the Darwin paradigm offer by way of making predictions when initial conditions are known?Paxx
September 18, 2022
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That raises a few questions. Where are these algorithms written and stored until needed? What is the trigger? What does the switching?
And wouldn’t that suggest that all possible environments were pre-determined?Sir Giles
September 18, 2022
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All algorithms are already written and sleeping until the moment of triggering when will be switched on.
That raises a few questions. Where are these algorithms written and stored until needed? What is the trigger? What does the switching?Alan Fox
September 18, 2022
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Life learns
:lol: Learning is an intelligent action performed by an intelligence. to learn= to gain knowledge or understanding of or skill in by study, instruction, or experience. What life do is to execute complex layers of instructions (already written by an intelligence as functional information). Executing different algorithms is not learning but an automated response to different stimuli . All algorithms are already written and sleeping until the moment of triggering when will be switched on .Lieutenant Commander Data
September 18, 2022
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Life responds the same as an autopilot.
Nope. Life learns. Play the game of life or die.Alan Fox
September 18, 2022
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Having certain traits (all randomly mutated by the way) can help increase the chance of survival but cannot guarantee survival.
Which is an excellent example of selection being non-random.Sir Giles
September 18, 2022
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The best fact is that no one who is anti ID has ever produced a fact to support an alternative.
The theory of evolution by random variation and natural selection? Not heard of that, Jerry? It's evolved since Darwin. Evolved since Dawkins. ID is not an alternative. It's a cargo cult.Alan Fox
September 18, 2022
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:) Life responds the same as an autopilot. Even if an observer can have the(false) impression of randomness actually nothing is happening randomnly . All life forms ( from simple forms to humans )constitute very complex cybernetic systems that have a preseted purpose and can't survive responding randomnly to random stimuli. PS: darwinists can't talk about non-randomness("Selection is not random.") :)) Antonyms for random : methodical (also methodic), organized, regular, systematic, systematizedLieutenant Commander Data
September 18, 2022
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Oh dear! Jerry acknowledges that selection is non-random (but limited) but WitnessFTP says selection is random. Get your stories straight, guys, and get back to me.Alan Fox
September 18, 2022
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Refute my claim with some “Intelligent Design” facts. I dare you! ?
The best fact is that no one who is anti ID has ever produced a fact to support an alternative. You certainly haven’t nor has anyone in the world. I wonder why? Aside: As far as pro ID, start with all the fine tunings. There are literally books on it and lots of videos for the reading impaired. As I said, the claim is one of the stupidest ever made on UD. That’s a fact we all can agree on.jerry
September 18, 2022
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AF @33 Selection is not random It most certainly is. The vast majority of life is made up of random events. Survival is all about randomness. Having certain traits (all randomly mutated by the way) can help increase the chance of survival but cannot guarantee survival. This observation is certainly true about life: “The swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all.”—Eccl. 9:11.WitnessFTP
September 18, 2022
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Come on, Jerry. I can't compete with you. Refute my claim with some "Intelligent Design" facts. I dare you! ;)Alan Fox
September 18, 2022
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One of the stupidest comments ever made on UD.
One of a countless number.Sir Giles
September 18, 2022
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Nobody’s yet presented the facts of “Intelligent Design”.
One of the stupidest comments ever made on UD. Aside: Seversky has been commenting here for over 13 years. He has never responded to the answers he receives. This means he acquiesces to these answers. This does not however, prevent him from asking the same question over and over and receive the same answer. Is that the definition of something?
It amazes me how blithely ignorant folks here are of the non-random process of natural selection.
It’s not natural selection that is thought random, but variation. But even variations may not be random as nothing is truly random. However, natural selection never produces anything but trivial changes that have never real built anything new of consequence in Evolution. Natural Selection leads to dead ends because it leads to loss of gene variation.jerry
September 18, 2022
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There is no point in responding to Seversky. He will never understand no matter how many facts he is presented with.
How do you know that? Nobody's yet presented the facts of "Intelligent Design".
Has anyone noticed how every fossil is of a 100% functional creature?
Do you mean that all fossils are remains of creatures that were once alive? I guess there is no intermediate state for an organism between life and death. Seeds, now. I guess they are 100% functional. Viruses? Animals in deep hibernation? All alive till they're dead, I guess.
Not at all what you would expect from a random process.
Selection is not random
If it were truly random most would be non-functioning carcasses.
Selection is not random.. It amazes me how blithely ignorant folks here are of the non-random process of natural selection.Alan Fox
September 18, 2022
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How appropriate that such an excellent video receives a strong response. There is no point in responding to Seversky. He will never understand no matter how many facts he is presented with. Has anyone noticed how every fossil is of a 100% functional creature? Not at all what you would expect from a random process. If it were truly random most would be non-functioning carcasses. Think of the damage of only having an limb in the wrong position. It would be catastrophic. Yet this is never the case in the fossil record. Just image a factory that produces something with its parts randomly located. The product would never work. To me this is the strongest refutation of evolution - a 100% functional fossil record. I would enjoy seeing an article here on this subject.Peter
September 18, 2022
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A master guitarist does show off the hands, the fingers and the wrists. Yet a favorite of mine to show off the human body and it's coordination is the Argentine tango. You just won't see two prokaryotes moving like this. Enjoy: https://youtu.be/JaEsttvrXkYBlastus
September 16, 2022
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BA77 @ 29 I've never seen a guitar with those diagonal frets. Too weird and cool. JVL, "No Robert Fripp? Adrian Belew?" King Crimson didn't capture me back in the day. I should probably give them some listening time now, though. Andrewasauber
September 15, 2022
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Andy McKee - Guitar - Drifting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfF4QLO-L_4bornagain77
September 15, 2022
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