Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Berlinski’s Question Remains Unanswered

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

In a recent post I asked the following question.

I have a question for non-ID proponents only and it is very simple: Is there even one tenet of modern evolutionary theory that is universally agreed upon by the proponents of modern evolutionary theory?

Then I waited for the answers to come in. I was not disappointed, and I would like to express a hearty “thank you” to the proponents of modern evolutionary theory who participated in the exercise.

I have gone through the comments, and the proponents have nominated the following list as tenets on which all proponents of modern evolutionary theory agree:

1. Common descent

2. Modern organisms descend from very ancient ones.

3. The differences among related lineages have accumulated over many generations of change.

4. The basis of (some of) the differences among individuals is heritable.

5. The relative success of those heritable traits is the basis of evolutionary change.

6. Selection is an important evolution force.

7. Populations connected by gene flow evolve together absent very strong selection pull each population in different directions.

8. Selection is important (I am not sure how this is different from 6).

9. Drift exists.

10. Allopatric speciation is possible.

11. Most speciation processes fit somewhere between the extremes of sympatric speciation and allopatric speciation.

12. All of modern life shares common ancestry, HGT and orphan genes notwithstanding.

13. The following mechanisms of genetic change cause change in lineages, with a bias against reversal:
Mutation (point, indel, duplication and rearrangement)
Gene Conversion
Recombination (several mechanisms including HGT)

14. A parallel process of concentration/dilution of such variant alleles occurs (concentration of one is inevitably dilution of the other), by both sample error (drift) and systematic bias (selection).

15. Only frequency-dependent selection can oppose the progress of such an allele through to the fixation of one variant and elimination of the other. This is rare, so origin-fixation is the norm, long-term. [Later withdrawn]

16. Iterated occurrences of such fixations inevitably change lineages.

17. Isolated gene pools diverge.

18. Species differences are fundamentally due to the tendency of this divergence to proceed beyond the point of interfertility (isolation through prezygotic and postzygotic mechanisms).

19. Higher taxa result from ongoing divergences of historic species.

20. Transition-transversion biases in substitution are due to a biochemical tendency increasing yields of one product over the other.

21. Codon position biases occur and are due to the relative effects of selection and drift on synonymous vs nonsynonymous sites.

OK then. Let’s take a look at this list. They seem to fall into the following five categories.

Category 1: Who doesn’t believe that?

Pretty much everyone on the planet would agree with the following proposition: Animals and plants are different now than they were in the past. Thus, the proposition – while at some trivial level a tenant of modern evolutionary theory – is not that which sets it apart from other theories and accounts for its unique purported explanatory power. Even young earth creationists believe it. Therefore, these propositions cannot be the basis for any claim that the theory (as opposed to some other theory) is true. From the above list the following fall into this category: 1, 2, 3, 7, 9, 10, 12, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 21.

Category 2: Trivial

4. The basis of (some of) the differences among individuals is heritable.

Yes, all evolution proponents agree that genetics exists.

Category 3. It is simply not true that all evolution proponents believe it

It is simply not true, for example, that all evolution proponents believe that natural selection plays more than a non-trivial role in the process. It is also not true that all proponents believe sympatric speciation occurs. 5, 8 and 11 fall into this category. See here and here.

Category 4. I Don’t know what claim is being made

13. The following mechanisms of genetic change cause change in lineages, with a bias against reversal:
Mutation (point, indel, duplication and rearrangement)
Gene Conversion
Recombination (several mechanisms including HGT)

Is the proponent of this claim stating that genetic change and only genetic change causes change in a lineage? If so, it is clearly not the case that all proponents of the theory agree with this; indeed most of them would dispute it. Is the proponent claiming merely that genetics change occurs and somehow that gets fixed in a species? If that is the case, it would fall under category 1.

Catategory 5. Withdrawn: claim 15.

CONCLUSIONS

My suspicions have been confirmed. Proponents of modern evolutionary theory all agree on a set of propositions that even most fervent young earth creationist would also agree on. And nothing more as far as I can tell.

What I was really trying to get at was this: Is there any “core” proposition on which all proponents of modern evolutionary theory agree. By “core” proposition, I do not mean basic facts of biology that pretty much everyone from YECs to Richard Dawkins agrees are true. I mean a proposition upon which the theory stands or falls, and, as I said above, sets it apart from other theories and accounts for its unique purported explanatory power

I have in mind a proposition that would answer David Berlinski’s famous question:

I disagree [with Paul R. Gross’ assertion] that Darwin’s theory is as “solid as any explanation in science.” Disagree? I regard the claim as preposterous. Quantum electrodynamics is accurate to thirteen or so decimal places; so, too, general relativity. A leaf trembling in the wrong way would suffice to shatter either theory. What can Darwinian theory offer in comparison?

Indeed. What does modern evolutionary theory offer in comparison? How can the theory ever hope to be as “solid as any explanation in science” when its proponents cannot seem to agree on a single tenet, the falsification of which would, in Berlinski’s words, shatter the theory?

UPDATE:

In the comments eigenstate pulls Haldane’s famous “rabbit in the Cambrian” out of his hat. I will address that here:

Everyone knows there are no rabbit fossils in the strata that have been labeled “Cambrian.” First, eigen’s sputtering to the contrary notwithstanding, the primary reason a stratum would be called “Cambrian” in the first place is because of the absence of rabbit fossils.

Set that aside for the moment and consider this. The fact that there are no rabbit fossils in the Cambrian strata is a datum. It is a datum for evolutionary theory; it is a datum for young earth creationists; it is a datum for ID proponents. It is a fact on the ground in the same way that people are stuck to the earth with a force of 1G is a fact on the ground. Saying “a rabbit in a Cambrian stratum would destroy Darwinism” is equivalent to saying “if people start floating off into space it would destroy general relativity.” Well, people are not floating off into space and they are not about to. No rabbits have been found in the Cambrian strata and none ever will be. Haldane’s observation amounts to nothing more than “if the facts were different the theory to explain those facts would have to be different too.” It is trivially true and singularly unhelpful.

I take it that Berlinski’s point is very different. The mathematical models of quantum electrodynamics and general relativity make extremely precise predictions (13 decimal points). It follows that those theories have exposed themselves to an enormously high degree of “risk,” because if an observation were to vary from prediction by even an astronomically small degree it would falsify the theory.

Now consider the following exchange:

Barry: And yet unlike respectable scientific theories, there is not universal agreement on a single one of those details that sets [evolutionary] theory apart as an explanatory mechanism.

eigenstate: so what?

Well, here is what. Paul R. Gross’ asserted that Darwin’s theory is as “solid as any explanation in science.” Berlinski retorted that the assertion is preposterous. The point of the OP is that Berlinski is certainly correct. There is not even agreement among evolutionary theorists on what the model should be in the first place; far less has anyone developed a model that would make exquisitely precise predictions equivalent to those made by quantum electrodynamics and general relativity. Thank you eigenstate for confirming Berlinski’s point with your “so what.’

Comments
I know that this is kinda off topic, but I'll put it here anyway. I have been toying around with redundancy and natural selection. It appears that according to the modern evolutionary theory, natural selection plays two roles: purging deleterious mutations, and preserving beneficial mutations. Further, natural selection is the only mechanism available to provide these services. (Yes, I am aware that DNA has various amazing genetic repair mechanisms. These mechanisms are "inside the box", however. And the box necessitates a certain amount of mutation for organisms to change with.) It appears to me that redundant genes are an absolute falsification of natural selection as the only mechanism that maintains genetic quality. This thought was brought to me by Denis Noble of "The Music of Life" fame. He said that gene knock out experiments were difficult because knocking out gene A produced no deleterious effects, knocking out gene B also produced no deleterious effects, but knocking out both did. He referred to this as redundancy. Let me clearly define my position. If it could be shown that: if the deletion of gene A, or gene B causes no deleterious effects, if knocking out both gene A and gene B produce deleterious effects, and if both gene A and gene B have been around for millions of years then natural selection as the universal agent of gene quality maintenance is falsified. My case is simple. Natural selection works on the level of the phenotype. If there is no change in the phenotype of an organism (ie, knocking out gene A or B) then natural selection cares not. Therefore, while gene A and B are both functional, either is available to take a deleterious mutation. That first deleterious mutation has no protection from natural selection. Now, mutations to a particular gene are unlikely to happen in 5 to 10 generations. So it is unlikely that the vulnerability that the other gene takes on will be a factor with sufficient resolution for natural selection to react to. Natural selection, therefore, simply cannot protect the redundant aspects of genetics. Corollary: Near neutral theory claims that natural selection will allow slightly deleterious mutations to fix in a population. Therefore neutral theory claims that natural selection is not a high precision instrument. This must be factored into the analysis above. If the knocking out of gene A or gene B produces only a slightly deleterious effect, natural selection will still not respond to protect these genes. Therefore, to falsify natural selection as the universal preserving agent, the threshold is lowered. If the knocking out of gene A or gene B does not produce greater than "slight" deleterious effects, natural selection as the universal preservative is falsified. It is my understanding that genetic redundancy is ubiquitous. I understand the argument that these redundancies may well show deleterious effects in a natural environment where they do not in a laboratory environment. This, therefore, is a potential path of ID research; the ID community needs to create real-world stress tests of known redundancies to show that they are truly redundant outside the lab. (Oh yea, ID never leads to new research possibilities -- sorry.)bFast
May 7, 2015
May
05
May
7
07
2015
09:03 AM
9
09
03
AM
PDT
eigenstate- There isn't any evolutionary theory and unguided evolution can't account for rabbits.Joe
May 7, 2015
May
05
May
7
07
2015
08:45 AM
8
08
45
AM
PDT
Haldane's "rabbit in the Cambrian" suffices as a simple example of a devastating find for evolutionary theory's basic model. Discovery of life (say from the deep sea) that wasn't DNA based and didn't harness genetic variation, that would do it. A visit from aliens or God showing us how evolution really happened as opposed to the model we have in evolutionary theory. The fantastic nature of these scenarios, though, underscores the "settledness" of the theory, in the same way it hardly seems right to consider that gravitational theory would be overturned if objects on the surface of the earth were not subject to the acceleration forces from the mass of the earth. As for "everyone agrees", it's not even substantial in a pedantic sense to be able to cite single cases of doubt or dispute over this aspect or that regarding evolutionary theory. Given the political, social, moral and religious implications of the science -- Darwin overturns many of our most visceral conceits about ourselves and undermines many of our most beloved superstitions and intuitions -- the broad and solid consensus of the informed that does is exist is remarkable. If gravitational theory had the same kind of implications for religion and the credulous intuition about ourselves that evolution does, we'd have the same kinds of disputes and apprehensions in that area. I have no idea how you suppose you could assign #1, #2 and #3 as you have to "everyone pretty much believes it". #1 is anathema to YECs. Common descent is not something YECs endorse at all, in any fashion. Hundreds of citations from leading YEC web sites and leaders available on request. This is just clumsy as a means to avoid your trouble:
Animals and plants are different now than they were in the past.
That's not the implication of #1. #1 holds that all species descended from ancient common ancestors, which NECESSARILY includes humans and other primates descending from common earlier ancestors. Go find me a YEC textbook or leader who endorses THAT. They don't they won't and you know it, so this a obvious and ham-fisted attempt to pass off the major, non-negotiable divide between biological science and YECs. I won't even bother with #2 -- the "Y" in YEC stands for "Young", remember? Just on #1, #2, and #3, you have an uncrossable chasm between a huge number of religious fundamentalists and conservatives and consensus science. Worrying about allopatric speciation as an "equal in the list" to these three is crazy. #1 itself suffices to divide and divorce a huge religious faction, irreconcilable with modern biology. This is a howler of a fail, Barry. You either think people can't read, or you haven't familiarized yourself with the basics of evolutionary theory or YEC theology. Evolutionary theory doesn't simply propose "Animals and plants are different now than they were in the past". It is detailed in its proposal -- all species share common ancestors. Those are not the same proposition -- the former does not entail the latter, and the latter is the core thesis of evolutionary theory.eigenstate
May 7, 2015
May
05
May
7
07
2015
08:03 AM
8
08
03
AM
PDT
1 9 10 11

Leave a Reply