Biologist describes growing up under Darwinism in a communist state

rvb8:

you use a quote from John Morris claiming no link between Christianity and ID;

And you ignored the quote as if your ignorance means something. Strange. Again ID does NOT say anything about worship-> nothing on who, how, when nor where. ID does not even require God. On the other hand Christianity is all about worship-> the who, how. when and where. They even have prayers and services. But then again facts will never stop the ID critics from lying about ID. ET

Seversky:

From Phillip E Johnson, credited as one of the Founding Fathers of ID:

Aristotle is more the founder of ID than Johnson. And evolutionism is inherently atheistic:

In other words, religion is compatible with modern evolutionary biology (and indeed all of modern science) if the religion is effectively indistinguishable from atheism.1

…

The frequently made assertion that modern biology and the assumptions of the Judaeo-Christian tradition are fully compatible is false.2

…

Evolution is the greatest engine of atheism ever invented. Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent.3

As the creationists claim, belief in modern evolution makes atheists of people. One can have a religious view that is compatible with evolution only if the religious view is indistinguishable from atheism.4

click here for a hint:

‘Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear … There are no gods, no purposes, no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end for me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning to life, and no free will for humans, either.’ 5

Thank you for your honesty Will Provine. 1- Academe January 1987 pp.51-52 † 2-Evolutionary Progress (1988) p. 65 † 3- “Evolution: Free will and punishment and meaning in life” 1998 Darwin Day Keynote Address 1 2 † 4- No Free Will (1999) p.123 5- Provine, W.B., Origins Research 16(1), p.9, 1994. ET

Dionisio -- Thank you so much for bringing Alexander Solzhenitsyn back to our remembrance. His words also describe the literal, very real, Satanic evil that captured much of Europe during the Nazi era. DonJohnsonDD682

A new low. Upright BiPed

Dionisio @39: its rude not to accept a compliment. Pindi

ET @ 8

“The differences between Biblical creationism and the IDM should become clear. As an unashamedly Christian/creationist organization, ICR is concerned with the reputation of our God and desires to point all men back to Him. We are not in this work merely to do good science, although this is of great importance to us. We care that students and society are brainwashed away from a relationship with their Creator/Savior. While all creationists necessarily believe in intelligent design, not all ID proponents believe in God. ID is strictly a non-Christian movement, and while ICR values and supports their work, we cannot join them.”- John Morris, president of the Institute for Creation Research

From Phillip E Johnson, credited as one of the Founding Fathers of ID:

"Our strategy has been to change the subject a bit, so that we can get the issue of intelligent design, which really means the reality of God, before the academic world and into the schools." "This isn't really, and never has been, a debate about science. It's about religion and philosophy

The objective [of the wedge strategy] is to convince people that Darwinism is inherently atheistic, thus shifting the debate from creationism vs. evolution to the existence of God vs. the non-existence of God. From there people are introduced to 'the truth' of the Bible and then 'the question of sin' and finally 'introduced to Jesus

Seversky

EricMH @ 6

Which oppressive Christian society created the gulags, death camps, gas chambers, etc.?

Stalinist Russia created the gulags and the communist regime there was certainly atheistic. Nazi Germany created death camps and gas chambers but their position was more problematical. They cited religion on occasion but the suspicion is that it was more like Trumpian opportunism, saying whatever they thought might appeal to their audience at the time. If you're interested in Christianity's unsavory history of oppression, you need only research the treatment of indigenous peoples in Africa, North and South America, Australia and New Zealand in past centuries by the European colonial powers - all of them avowedly Christian. Seversky

Dean_from_Ohio, Your kind words have reminded me that it's only through Christ that we can reflect His light. Apart from Him I wouldn't have written anything worth reading. Hence, all praise to Him. It's very encouraging to know you as an insightful commenter in this website, which is an 'eintopf' of philosophical and theological worldview positions. May God bless you and yours too. Dionisio

Here's another folk who didn't get the memo from Solzhenitsyn: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/352625-army-investigating-west-point-graduates-pro-communist-social Definitely ignorance has grave consequences. Dionisio

Truth Will SYF : Excellent comment. Also, rvb8’s hatred for ID is minimal compared to his extreme hatred for Christianity. Must be tough carrying around so much hate thx same goes for yours. See RVB doesn't understand that every religion, including his, must have its sinners for its maintenance. He is in the daily echo chamber telling him what to believe, which is there is a mainstream Christian under every rock, behind every societal problem. It gives them something to believe in, a teleological basis for getting up every morning, even though life, including theirs, is meaningless. They need a political cause to fill the spiritual void. groovamos

TWSYF, That's right, all for nothing. He's never got it. Really sad. BTW, regarding Solzhenitsyn's speech at the Templeton foundation, in the 1970s the famous Russian writer was quite known in the academic/political circles in western Europe and the US but not to many people inside his own country, where his books were not publicly available. The fear of the free flow of information was enormous in that society. Do you know why Solzhenitsyn was sent to the Siberian gulag that he made known to the world through his famous books later? Apparently as a young officer in the soviet troops that 'liberated' the former Prussian territories by the Baltic Sea, he wrote a letter to a friend describing the atrocities committed by his fellow army comrades. Obviously his personal letter was censored and he was arrested. So much for freedom of opinion. Dionisio

Dionisio @ 25-33: Brilliant. groovamos @ 24: Excellent comment. Also, rvb8's hatred for ID is minimal compared to his extreme hatred for Christianity. Must be tough carrying around so much hate, especially knowing that ID and Christianity will still be around (and thriving) when he takes his last breath. It was all for naught, rvb8. All for naught. The penny never dropped! Truth Will Set You Free

“Godlessness: the First Step to the Gulag” Alexander Solzhenitsyn Templeton Prize for Progress in Religion on May of 1983

To the ill-considered hopes of the last two centuries, which have reduced us to insignificance and brought us to the brink of nuclear and non-nuclear death, we can propose only a determined quest for the warm hand of God, which we have so rashly and self-confidently spurned. Only in this way can our eyes be opened to the errors of this unfortunate twentieth century and our hands be directed to setting them right. There is nothing else to cling to in the landslide: the combined vision of all the thinkers of the Enlightenment amounts to nothing.

Dionisio

“Godlessness: the First Step to the Gulag” Alexander Solzhenitsyn Templeton Prize for Progress in Religion on May of 1983

Our life consists not in the pursuit of material success but in the quest for worthy spiritual growth. Our entire earthly existence is but a transitional stage in the movement toward something higher, and we must not stumble and fall, nor must we linger fruitlessly on one rung of the ladder. Material laws alone do not explain our life or give it direction. The laws of physics and physiology will never reveal the indisputable manner in which the Creator constantly, day in and day out, participates in the life of each of us, unfailingly granting us the energy of existence; when this assistance leaves us, we die. And in the life of our entire planet, the Divine Spirit surely moves with no less force: this we must grasp in our dark and terrible hour.

Dionisio

“Godlessness: the First Step to the Gulag” Alexander Solzhenitsyn Templeton Prize for Progress in Religion on May of 1983

Imperceptibly, through decades of gradual erosion, the meaning of life in the West has ceased to be seen as anything more lofty than the “pursuit of happiness”, a goal that has even been solemnly guaranteed by constitutions. The concepts of good and evil have been ridiculed for several centuries; banished from common use, they have been replaced by political or class considerations of short lived value. It has become embarrassing to state that evil makes its home in the individual human heart before it enters a political system. Yet it is not considered shameful to make dally concessions to an integral evil. Judging by the continuing landslide of concessions made before the eyes of our very own generation, the West is ineluctably slipping toward the abyss. Western societies are losing more and more of their religious essence as they thoughtlessly yield up their younger generation to atheism. If a blasphemous film about Jesus is shown throughout the United States, reputedly one of the most religious countries in the world, or a major newspaper publishes a shameless caricature of the Virgin Mary, what further evidence of godlessness does one need? When external rights are completely unrestricted, why should one make an inner effort to restrain oneself from ignoble acts?

Dionisio

“Godlessness: the First Step to the Gulag” Alexander Solzhenitsyn Templeton Prize for Progress in Religion on May of 1983

The West has yet to experience a Communist invasion; religion here remains free. But the West’s own historical evolution has been such that today it too is experiencing a drying up of religious consciousness. It too has witnessed racking schisms, bloody religious wars, and rancor, to say nothing of the tide of secularism that, from the late Middle Ages onward, has progressively inundated the West. This gradual sapping of strength from within is a threat to faith that is perhaps even more dangerous than any attempt to assault religion violently from without.

Dionisio

“Godlessness: the First Step to the Gulag” Alexander Solzhenitsyn Templeton Prize for Progress in Religion on May of 1983

But there is something they did not expect: that in a land where churches have been leveled, where a triumphant atheism has rampaged uncontrolled for two-thirds of a century, where the clergy is utterly humiliated and deprived of all independence, where what remains of the Church as an institution is tolerated only for the sake of propaganda directed at the West, where even today people are sent to the labor camps for their faith, and where, within the camps themselves, those who gather to pray at Easter are clapped in punishment cells–they could not suppose that beneath this Communist steamroller the Christian tradition would survive in Russia. It is true that millions of our countrymen have been corrupted and spiritually devastated by an officially imposed atheism, yet there remain many millions of believers: it is only external pressures that keep them from speaking out, but, as is always the case in times of persecution and suffering, the awareness of God in my country has attained great acuteness and profundity. It is here that we see the dawn of hope: for no matter how formidably Communism bristles with tanks and rockets, no matter what successes it attains in seizing the planet, it is doomed never to vanquish Christianity.

Dionisio

“Godlessness: the First Step to the Gulag” Alexander Solzhenitsyn Templeton Prize for Progress in Religion on May of 1983

For a short period of time, when he needed to gather strength for the struggle against Hitler, Stalin cynically adopted a friendly posture toward the Church. This deceptive game, continued in later years by Brezhnev with the help of showcase publications and other window dressing, has unfortunately tended to be taken at its face value in the West. Yet the tenacity with which hatred of religion is rooted in Communism may be judged by the example of their most liberal leader, Krushchev: for though he undertook a number of significant steps to extend freedom, Krushchev simultaneously rekindled the frenzied Leninist obsession with destroying religion.

Dionisio

“Godlessness: the First Step to the Gulag” Alexander Solzhenitsyn Templeton Prize for Progress in Religion on May of 1983

The 1920’s in the USSR witnessed an uninterrupted procession of victims and martyrs amongst the Orthodox clergy. Two metropolitans were shot, one of whom, Veniamin of Petrograd, had been elected by the popular vote of his diocese. Patriarch Tikhon himself passed through the hands of the Cheka-GPU and then died under suspicious circumstances. Scores of archbishops and bishops perished. Tens of thousands of priests, monks, and nuns, pressured by the Chekists to renounce the Word of God, were tortured, shot in cellars, sent to camps, exiled to the desolate tundra of the far North, or turned out into the streets in their old age without food or shelter. All these Christian martyrs went unswervingly to their deaths for the faith; instances of apostasy were few and far between. For tens of millions of laymen access to the Church was blocked, and they were forbidden to bring up their children in the Faith: religious parents were wrenched from their children and thrown into prison, while the children were turned from the faith by threats and lies…

Dionisio

“Godlessness: the First Step to the Gulag” Alexander Solzhenitsyn Templeton Prize for Progress in Religion on May of 1983

It was Dostoevsky, once again, who drew from the French Revolution and its seeming hatred of the Church the lesson that “revolution must necessarily begin with atheism.” That is absolutely true. But the world had never before known a godlessness as organized, militarized, and tenaciously malevolent as that practiced by Marxism. Within the philosophical system of Marx and Lenin, and at the heart of their psychology, hatred of God is the principal driving force, more fundamental than all their political and economic pretensions. Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy; it is not a side effect, but the central pivot.

That's the environment I grew up and was educated in. I could have taught atheism to the strongest atheists today. Now I can sweep and mop the floor with all their baseless beliefs. God is amazingly gracious. Who would have thought back then that I could be writing this here today. Amazing grace that saved a wretch like me. All glory, all honor, all praise to the Lord. Dionisio

“Godlessness: the First Step to the Gulag” Alexander Solzhenitsyn Templeton Prize for Progress in Religion on May of 1983

More than half a century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of older people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened. Since then I have spent well-nigh fifty years working on the history of our Revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous Revolution that swallowed up some sixty million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened. [...] And if I were called upon to identify briefly the principal trait of the entire twentieth century, here too, I would be unable to find anything more precise and pithy than to repeat once again: Men have forgotten God. The failings of human consciousness, deprived of its divine dimension, have been a determining factor in all the major crimes of this century. [...] The only possible explanation for this war is a mental eclipse among the leaders of Europe due to their lost awareness of a Supreme Power above them.

Dionisio

rvb8: not so secretly, ID is a front for Christian ideas Jewish ID advocate: DI fellow David Klinghoffer agnostic Jew ID advocate: DI fellow David Berlinsky Muslim ID advocate: Adnan Oktar non-committed dualist ID advocate: Groovamos When Christianity had power, (from about 340AD to around 1700AD, and the rise of reason), Christianity had inordinate power. Nicolaus Copernicus (1473-1543): “To know the mighty works of God, to comprehend His wisdom and majesty and power, to appreciate, in degree, the wonderful working of His laws, surely all this must be a pleasing and acceptable mode of worship to the Most High, to whom ignorance cannot be more gratifying than knowledge.” (Copernicus, as cited in Neff 1952, 191-192; and in Hubbard 1905, v). René Descartes (1596-1650): "Is there not a God...who causes these thoughts to arise in my mind? But why suppose such a being, for it may be I myself am capable of producing them? ... And in truth, as I have no ground for believing that Deity is deceitful, and as, indeed, I have not even considered the reasons by which the existence of a Deity of any kind is established, the ground of doubt that rests only on this supposition is very slight, and, so to speak, metaphysical" Why not get your stories straight dude before posting on here. burn, torture, threaten, rape, imprison, mark, ridicule, execute, and basically terrorise entire populations I cant imagine what school you went to where this was taught but I was never taught "entire populations" were "burn(ed), torture(d), threaten(ed), rape(d), imprison(ed), mark(ed), ridicule(d), execute(d), and basically terrorise(d) groovamos

drc466 @17, The posts @10-12 relate to your first paragraph @17. Your interlocutor may not see that well. Dionisio

“In the early days of the German advance into Eastern Europe, before the possibility of Soviet retribution even entered their untroubled imagination, Nazi extermination squads would sweep into villages, and after forcing villagers to dig their own graves, murder their victims with machine guns. On one such occasion somewhere in Eastern Europe, an SS officer watched languidly, his machine gun cradled, as an elderly and bearded Hasidic Jew laboriously dug what he knew to be his grave. Standing up straight, he addressed his executioner. “God is watching what you are doing,” he said. And then he was shot dead. What Hitler did not believe and what Stalin did not believe and what Mao did not believe and what the SS did not believe and what the Gestapo did not believe and what the NKVD did not believe and what the commissars, functionaries, swaggering executioners, Nazi doctors, Communist Party theoreticians, intellectuals, Brown Shirts, Black Shirts, gauleiters, and a thousand party hacks did not believe was that God was watching what they were doing.” [Berlinski] Origenes

drc466 @17-18, Good comments. Thanks. But don't expect your interlocutor to understand what you wrote. Understanding requires the will to do it. Your interlocutor doesn't seem willing to understand anything or engage in serious discussions. Note the lack of attention to details @16, where your interlocutor referred to the comment @9 as if it were @10. To make things worse, this interlocutor wrongly associates the comment @9 with the comments @10-12. They are unrelated, because they address different issues. To top that, the interlocutor misunderstood the comment @13. The interlocutor wrote that the post @13 "instructs readers to ignore" the post @7, and "instead directs readers to" the posts @10-12. That's obviously wrong. The post @13 clearly states that it is a clarification for those who unfortunately already wasted time reading the hogwash @7. This lack of attention to details has been seen before in other comments posted by the same interlocutor. Maybe it's a reading comprehension issue? This interlocutor makes the materialists look embarrassingly uneducated. I was materialist too, educated/indoctrinated in the Soviet Union. Amazing grace that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now I'm found. Was blind, but now I see. This means that there's hope. Let's pray for the spiritually lost and blind readers so that they too are touched by the Divine grace that saves. One day at the end of this age of grace, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Christ is Lord of all. But then it will be too late for those who didn't follow Christ before He's back. Dionisio

rvb8, here's another fun challenge for you. Name one atheist state that has not mass murdered its population. EricMH

@rvb8, no I'm saying atheists who claim eliminating religion is the answer to all our problems are foolish beyond measure. EricMH

Follow-on to my comment above: it is probably unfair to label Germany as "Darwinist". In reality, the prevailing "religion" in Germany was, unfortunately, Hitler worship. Children said pledges to him in classrooms, teens spent weeks in camps being indoctrinated in Nazi/Hitler ideology, and even the army was required to pledge a vow of allegiance directly to Hitler. So "Hitlerist" Germany is probably a better descriptor. In either case, Christianity was not a significant underlying ideology in the behavior of German armed forces - allegiance to human authority in general and Hitler in particular was. drc466

@rvb8,

Christianity used that almost limitless power to burn, torture, threaten, rape, imprison, mark, ridicule, execute, and basically terrorise entire populations; or don’t you know any history?

To put it bluntly - bull. Is it fair and historically accurate to claim that Christianity was used by fringe groups and secular governments to justify hatred, abuse, and even war? Sure. Is it also fair to say that Christian organizations have not always practiced Biblical Christianity faithfully? Also sure - no one is going to argue that inquisitions and witch-burnings didn't occur. But your sense of scale is ludicrously off-base. The truth of the matter is that Judeo-Christian beliefs, followed faithfully, have been of greater benefit to the world than any other ideology, political or religious. Abolition, for example, was largely motivated by Christian beliefs in the equality of all men, a belief that is almost universally not shared by non-Christian cultures. Universities were almost entirely Christian-founded institutions, and the "divine-rights" of man were labelled as such based on a Christian understanding of Divine. I could go on and on. Since you claim to "know history", would you like to provide everyone with a comparison between the actions of atheist Russia, the Shintoist Japan, and Darwinist Germany, and the Christian France, Britain, America and even Italy, in WW2? Would you like to compare/contrast German treatment of Slavs, Russian treatment of Slavs/Germans, Japanese treatment of Chinese, Filipino, etc., to the treatment of enemy civilians by Allied troops? Would you like to explain for us why Germans were so desperate to surrender to American troops rather than be captured by Russians? Maybe a few words on the Bataan death march, or the rape of Nanking? Perhaps your historical knowledge might even extend to the relative survival rates between POWs of the respective combatants? The problem is that you were born into a world where Christian philosophy has essentially "won", and so most 1st-world countries accept Christian ideals and pretend/believe that their non-Christian morals would be the same even if Christianity wasn't around. You want to know what the world would look like without Christianity? Pull out your history book and study the world of B.C. Or spend some time in pre-missionary Asia, Africa, and Americas. You live in a world built on Christianity without a clue as to how hard and evil it would be without Christianity, and scorn the belief system that has given you basically everything. That's fine, you don't have to agree with me - but don't expect me to be blind because you choose to be. drc466

ET @8, you use a quote from John Morris claiming no link between Christianity and ID; Heh:) Dionisio arrives @10 congratulating you for clearing up the old cannard that Christianity and ID are bedfellows. Unfortuantely @10, 11, and 12, Dio quotes extensively from his/her English Standard Version, Christian Bible, to back you up. Then @13, Dio proudly instructs readers to ignore my own post @7, and instead directs readers to his Biblical quotes. In politics, and the law, this is known as a, 'smoking gun'. rvb8

EricMH, let's say your right, (I'm not, but to throw you a bone, let's just imagine the atheist regimes were far worse than the religious ones.) Don't you see where that tortured argument leaves religon? Let's use Christiaity. It leaves you in a kind of schoolyard taunt, along these lines, "yeah, alright Christians killed and tortured millions, but the atheists were way more worse." Do you really want to say that? We know Christianity had a bloody past, but atheism's worse? Essentially, 'we're not good, but better than you'?? rvb8

@rvb8, I'd like to see your evidence of how anything in the history of Christian atrocities matched the mass murder at the hand of atheists. EricMH

Another clarification for the anonymous readers who unfortunately might have squandered precious time reading the nonsense posted @7: Read the comments @10-12. Dionisio

Matthew 7:21-23 (ESV)

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Reformation Study Bible provided by Ligonier Ministries: The doubling of a name was an address of intimacy (Gen. 22:11; 1 Sam. 3:10; 2 Sam. 18:33; Luke 22:31). It is not claims or feelings of intimacy with Jesus that matter, nor is it simply good works, even miraculous ones; only doing the will of the Father matters. Genuine intimacy with the Father means knowing God and being known by God (1 Cor. 8:2, 3). Dionisio

The Golden Rule Matthew 7:12-14 (ESV)

So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Reformation Study Bible provided by Ligonier Ministries: Often called the “Golden Rule,” this principle was stated by a number of ancient thinkers as, “Do not do to others what you do not want done to you.” Jesus made it a positive obligation. Here it appears after the discussion of God’s goodness and His willingness to give. Presenting a rosy picture of the Christian life and minimizing that it is filled with trouble does not follow the lead of our Lord (Acts 14:22). It may be that the “false prophets” of v. 15 are especially those who deny that the way is narrow and hard. Dionisio

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits." Matthew 7:15-16 (ESV) "The message of false prophets may be attractive and even seem orthodox. The only way to know for sure is to allow time to see “their fruits” (vv. 16–20). Some of the false prophets’ fruits are mentioned in the New Testament: controversies (1 Tim. 1:3), divisions (1 Tim. 6:3, 4), destruction of faith (2 Tim. 2:18), and self-destruction by heresy (2 Pet. 2:1)." Reformation Study Bible provided by Ligonier Ministries Dionisio

ET @8: Timely clarification for the anonymous readers who unfortunately might have squandered precious time reading the nonsense posted @7. Thanks. Dionisio

"The differences between Biblical creationism and the IDM should become clear. As an unashamedly Christian/creationist organization, ICR is concerned with the reputation of our God and desires to point all men back to Him. We are not in this work merely to do good science, although this is of great importance to us. We care that students and society are brainwashed away from a relationship with their Creator/Savior. While all creationists necessarily believe in intelligent design, not all ID proponents believe in God. ID is strictly a non-Christian movement, and while ICR values and supports their work, we cannot join them."- John Morris, president of the Institute for Creation Research

ET

EricMH, Christian? Why do you single out that faith? Is it because, not so secretly, ID is a front for Christian ideas? In answer to your question, "Which oppressive Christian society created the gulags...? ; When Christianity had power, (from about 340AD to around 1700AD, and the rise of reason), Christianity had inordinate power. Christianity used that almost limitless power to burn, torture, threaten, rape, imprison, mark, ridicule, execute, and basically terrorise entire populations; or don't you know any history? The gulags were an expression of the, 'cult of the personality', Hitler, Mao, and Stalin all used this; a State of religious fervour if you will. I'm sorry EricMH, when it comes to manipulation and pure evil, religion, and your Christianity, are past masters. You could blame all this on Darwin of course, but then I woud say, 'What caused this disgusting inhuman behaviour before Darwin?' The answer of course is, blind faith, in an All Loving God. rvb8

Which oppressive Christian society created the gulags, death camps, gas chambers, etc.? EricMH

@3 correction:

Yes, certainly Darwinian evolution theory validated that anthem and its underlying atheist ideology that promoted, encouraged and called for violent class struggle in order to form an idyllic classless society, which in reality never existed and the communist parties failed to build for obvious reasons*, as it was ironically demonstrated in August 1980 in Gdansk, Poland, when the overwhelmingly Roman Catholic Polish working class supported by the rest of the society peacefully rebelled against the ruling atheist communist party and threw them deep into the trash bin of history.

(*) prophet Jeremiah spoke about this long ago. Dionisio

@3 correction:

Yes, obviously Darwinian evolution theory validated that anthem and its underlying atheist ideology that promoted, encouraged and called for violent class struggle in order to form an idyllic classless society, which in reality didn’t exist, as it was ironically demonstrated in August 1980 in Gdansk, Poland, when the overwhelmingly Roman Catholic working class peacefully rebelled against the ruling atheist communist party and threw them into the trash bin of history.

Dionisio

Here is part of the lyrics of the common anthem shared by the atheist communist parties that were trying to build a communist socioeconomic system, though never succeeded:

Stand up, damned of the Earth Stand up, prisoners of starvation Reason thunders in its volcano This is the eruption of the end. Of the past let us make a clean slate Enslaved masses, stand up, stand up. The world is about to change its foundation We are nothing, let us be all. This is the final struggle Let us group together, and tomorrow The Internationale Will be the human race. There are no supreme saviours Neither God, [...]

Yes, obviously Darwinian evolution theory validated that anthem and its underlying atheist ideology that promoted, encouraged and called for violent class struggle in order to form an idyllic classless society, which in reality didn't exist, as it was ironically demonstrated in August 1980 in Gdansk, Poland, when the overwhelmingly Roman Catholic working class rebelled against the ruling atheist communist party and threw them into the trash bin of history. Dionisio

We can find stories of oppression under all sorts of political and religious regimes. For example, there are the Native American children in the US and Canada who were forcibly sent to Christian-run boarding schools where they were forced to wear the white man's clothing and forbidden to speak their own languages or practice their own religious and cultural traditions. All done with the best of intentions, no doubt, but still oppression and practiced against those least able to resist it. Seversky

'You never know whos going to turn up at Q&A with Jonathan Wells and John West.' Yes you do! Unification Church supporters, Christian apologists, ID people, and all those who believe in things unfelt, unknown, 'special', intangible, unmeasurable, and just plain, super-natural. rvb8