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Can Science Ground Morality?

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Of course not, as we have often noted in these pages.

James Davison Hunter’s and Paul Nedelisky’s  Where the New Science of Morality Goes Wrong is a great primer on the subject.  Their take down of Sam Harris is especially good:

The new moral scientists sometimes provide certain examples that they think illustrate that science has demonstrated (or can demonstrate) that certain moral claims are true or false. A favorite is the health or medical analogy. Neuroscientist and author Sam Harris, for example, employs the health analogy to argue that science can demonstrate moral value. A bit more circumspect than some who use the analogy, he recognizes that he’s assuming that certain observable properties are tied to certain moral values. Harris puts it this way:

Science cannot tell us why, scientifically, we should value health. But once we admit that health is the proper concern of medicine, we can then study and promote it through science…. I think our concern for well-being is even less in need for justification than our concern for health is.… And once we begin thinking seriously about human well-being, we will find that science can resolve specific questions about morality and human values.12

Harris makes two assumptions—first, that well-being is a moral good, and, second, that we know what the observable properties of well-being are. Yet he doesn’t see these assumptions as problematic for the scientific status of his argument. After all, he reasons, we make similar assumptions in medicine, but we can all recognize that it is still a science. But he still doesn’t recognize that this thinking is fatal to his claim that science can determine moral values. To make the problem for Harris more vivid, compare his argument above with arguments that share the same logic and structure:

  • Science cannot tell us why, scientifically, we should value the enslavement of Africans. But once we admit that slavery is the proper concern of social science, we can then study and promote it through science. I think our concern for embracing slavery is even less in need for justification than our concern for health is. And once we begin thinking seriously about slavery, we will find that science can resolve specific questions about morality and human values.

  • Science cannot tell us why, scientifically, we should value the purging of Jews, gypsies, and the mentally disabled from society. But once we admit that their eradication is the proper concern of social science, we can then study and promote it through science.

  • Science cannot tell us why, scientifically, we should value a prohibition on gay marriage. But once we admit that such a prohibition is the proper concern of social science, we can then study and promote it through science.

 

Comments
Yes! It should read, "but there is NO obligation for me or anyone else to take him seriously." Thanks.john_a_designer
February 20, 2017
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john_a_designer @100: I think Seversky's beliefs are very common out there. Perhaps the majority of people think that way.Dionisio
February 20, 2017
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john_a_designer @100:
[...] but there is obligation for me or anyone else to take him seriously.
Regarding the above quoted text, copied from the end of the third paragraph in your comment, did you mean "there is NO obligation"? Is the word "no" missing?Dionisio
February 20, 2017
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When someone claims, as Seversky has claimed on this thread, there is no moral truth (because morality in his view is “subjective”) he is making a universal truth claim about moral truth which is obviously self-refuting. By analogy he is making a claim like, “This sentence is false.” Morality is useless and meaningless unless it is about interpersonal moral obligation. The golden rule is one such moral principle which meaningless unless there really is interpersonal moral obligation. Seversky’s subjective beliefs and opinions carry no such moral obligation. If he claim they do he is contradicting himself. Of course, I suppose he has a right to believe whatever foolish nonsense he wishes to believe, but there is obligation for me or anyone else to take him seriously. Secondly, if his “morality” is completely subjective then he is the one who sets the moral standards for himself. His moral standards don’t apply to anyone else. How could they? Finally, to have any type of meaningful discussion about morality, it has to be honest. Honesty requires an objective standard-- doesn’t it? But by whose standard? Yours, mine or somebody else’s? Unless there is a non-arbitrary or objective standard of honesty any discussion or debate about morality and ethics is totally meaningless. Why should I trust anyone unless I know he/she is being completely honest? But how can I know that they are being honest unless there is an objective standard of honesty? So why does Seversky even bother? Why does he continue argue that something that only he believes must be believed by everyone else? Again that is a self-refuting if not an irrational and absurd position.john_a_designer
February 20, 2017
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critical rationalist @57:
[...] their explanation of how the world works would lead to a different interpretation of who their “neighbor” is or when and what it means to “love” them.
The Christian Scripture leaves no room for misinterpretation of the most fundamental concepts, precepts and principles. The terms "neighbor" and "love" are clearly defined in the Christian Bible for anyone who is seriously willing to learn their meaning. Perhaps there are biblical concepts that seem described in terms that might lead to a variety of interpretations. But those terms are not fundamental. However, there are biblical terms that have been distorted even though they are clearly defined in the Christian Scripture. Maybe some distortions have been made intentionally for a particular purpose, but it's possible that some of the misinterpretations are the product of our human disregard for accuracy and our lack of attention to important contextual details. For example, the term 'church' refers to the people who belong to Christ, which does not necessarily include all the people who claim to be Christians. It definitely does not refer to the buildings where they meet. That's one of the confused ideas that have been incorrectly passed through history, even though it is well defined in the Bible. What distinguish most church denominations (I'd rather call them 'abominations') is their different interpretations of minor issues like worship music style. However, certain denominations differ in more foundational issues. The last book in the NT, known as Apocalypse (Revelation) contains specific messages to seven different church congregations. Those letters identify what tells each congregation apart from the true church, not from the other congregations. We still can see those same differences today. Each congregation must compare itself to the pattern given in the Bible, not to other congregations. That's why we refer to some congregations as biblical, because they stick to the scripture in the fundamental issues. I have Christian brothers and sisters in different congregations in different countries and continents. Their congregations may be organized following different approaches, but their core belief is the same: 1. Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is the only document from our highest authority. 2. Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ. 3. Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone. 4. Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King. 5. Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone. Christians don't compare to one another, but only to their common pattern: Christ. That's why the apostle Paul claimed to be the top sinner. I can claim the same title. Every true Christian can do the same. The closer we are to the Light, the better we see our own enormous imperfections. The good news is that Christ loves us. He fills our hearts with hope and peace. Let's run to Him! Let's do it now, before it's too late. This age of grace will have an end. No one knows when. Then every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Christ is Lord, because He will make it very obvious to all. But then it might be too late, because faith will not be required at that moment, and it's written that we are saved only through faith in Christ by His grace alone.Dionisio
February 20, 2017
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hgp @97: I see your very logical point, but have to admit didn't see it before reading your excellent comment. Thank you. BTW, what's your first language? You may ignore my question if you wish. That's fine. FYI, my first language is Spanish.Dionisio
February 20, 2017
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Seversky @59: You said: ...moral codes should be the product of inter-subjective agreement The question arises, whether this sentence is a "moral code". If it isn't, then you should;o) explain, what kind of statement this might be, because to me it looks like a moral code. If you agree that it is a moral code, then we might ask, whether this statement is self refuting. To use the example introduced by you and/or Dionisio above at least one of the following points obtain: 1) If the German Nazis didn't agree to be held to this moral code, then basing moral codes on inter-subjective agreement obviously didn't apply to them. or 2) If the German Nazis can be held to this moral code without their agreement, then there exists another source for moral codes besides inter-subjective agreement. Another formulation of the same problem: If moral codes should be the product of inter-subjective agreement and I do not agree to basing moral codes on inter-subjective agreement, is that code a valid moral principle to me? If not, what is the point of this moral principle? If yes, what else is there that makes this moral principle binding on me? Seversky, can you explain this? (English is not my first language)hgp
February 20, 2017
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Really???” isn’t much of an argument. Do you have specific criticism?
It isn't but your intuition should have alerted you to the fact that your argument is unreasonable. It's like saying ISIS wants their child soldiers to feel pity towards their victims and put them on the verge of not wanting to carry out their commands.
Perhaps you think it’s obvious that wouldn’t happen because the Bible doesn’t say that’s the case?
It's obvious because that is what it is.
This is why I keep saying that we find ourselves with moral problems to solve.
"We" don't. You just keep bringing up unreasonable imaginary situations that make sense only to you and hope I, or we, can undertake the same level of mental gymnastics it took you to make such scenarios sound reasonable.Vy
February 20, 2017
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rvb8 re 22 Dwking actually said the women had a moral obligation to abort her down syndrome child and try again. You then say morality is a product of selection along with good, bad, better, worse, but did not give a definition of any one of these traits. So definition please. You seem to know what good and bad is , what is moral and what is not so once again, eating meat right or wrong, aborting children on the basis of them being female, down syndrome, mixed race, poor, is this good or bad right or wrong.Leaving your wife with four children while you skip town with you young secretary , right or wrong. I hope you are seeing the point here that who and how do we get to make a definitive statement on the moral implications of these questions and who is the final judge. To decide on these matters we have to have a definition of moral , right, wrong ,good ,bad, because if they are just a product of evolution and are here by selection fitness, surely they are carry the same weight of benefit and fitness to mankind .Not to mention that if you follow the materialist viewpoint to its logical conclusion then you have no freewill and the whole point of the argument about choosing to do right or wrong is moot. Once again I await you answer to specific questions asked.Marfin
February 19, 2017
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@Vy I wrote:
For example, it could be that demons take the fun out of taking some actions because they know many people will take them and they want them to suffer while doing so.
Vy wrote:
Demons take the fun out of sinning because they want you to feel bad for sinning? Really???
"Really???" isn't much of an argument. Do you have specific criticism? If we have two options ...
A. Sinner sins and has fun doing it. B. Sinner sins and feels awful doing it.
...B sounds like the the worse of the two. Suffer now and later, rather than just later. Perhaps you think it's obvious that wouldn't happen because the Bible doesn't say that's the case? Demons in the Judaeo-Christian sense would not take actions that would dissuade people from sinning, but I don't think you consider only "fun" acts to be a sin or "having fun" a necessary component for committing them. This is why I keep saying that we find ourselves with moral problems to solve. For example, the engineer might have found himself in need of money and decided to accept a bet from one of his peers to short change the blind cashier for, say, $100. He many not enjoy doing it, but I'm guessing you still think it's a sin regardless. Furthermore, that assumes the Judaeo-Christian narrative is true. Demons in other religions are more about deceiving people in general. Regardless, I do not consider either demons in any religion or The Holy Spirt to be good explanations because they are easy to vary and operate by inexplicable means and methods. Specifically, they are related to changing people's behavior not by long chain of independent explanations that could not easily be modified to fit new criticisms, but by a single direct claim that is part of theological narrative itself: demons tempt people because "thats the role that some supernatural beings want them to play." So it would seem that we agree that demons are bad explanations, but for different reasons.critical rationalist
February 19, 2017
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Seversky @80:
Dionisio @ 65 What if the morally governed are divided by different opposite irreconcilable opinions? What do you suggest to be the rational basis for morality in such a case?
Seversky @80: The Golden Rule. Our common interests as human beings.
Which Golden Rule? (1) the ancient Laozi (Chinese) enunciation of the sage’s virtues (unrestricted kindness, faithfulness), or (2) the ancient negative (passive) formulation, or (3) the NT gospels (Matthew, Luke) command for us to be positively proactive in relation to others? "Our common interests as human beings"? What about the case of divisive issues that keep different groups of people from having common interests?Dionisio
February 19, 2017
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Seversky @78:
Personally, I believe that the right to life should cover the whole lifespan of an individual human being, from conception to coffin. Since the unborn cannot speak for themselves, I believe society has a moral duty to preserve those lives, except where doctors may be forced to make a choice between the life of the mother and that of the child.
I see your point.Dionisio
February 19, 2017
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Seversky @77:
[...] if they [the Nazis] wanted some sort of moral foundation for what they did then they should have consulted those affected. Why shouldn’t those people be heard?
Wasn't their own Nazi moral foundation sufficient for them? Why not? Why should they want somebody else's moral foundation? Why should the affected be heard?Dionisio
February 19, 2017
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Seversky @76:
If they [the Nazis] wanted some sort of moral justification or warrant for what they did – and this discussion is about moral foundations – then they should have. Since they obviously couldn’t have cared less about such niceties, they didn’t.
Whose moral justification? Didn't they have their own moral justification? Why should they want somebody else's moral justification? Why did they have to care about someone else's opinion?Dionisio
February 19, 2017
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Seversky @74
As I said before, the Nazis did not consult the “unfit” or “subhuman” before carrying out their policies. That’s why they had no moral grounds for what they did. “Intersubjective agreement” in this context requires the agreement of all those who might be the subject of the proposed morality.
"[...] they had no moral grounds for what they did." Whose moral rules or law is your affirmation based on? Didn't they believe they had the moral ground to do what they did? Did they have to consult anybody besides themselves? Why?Dionisio
February 19, 2017
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The problem is that we have two very different perspectives. You have the idea that moral knowledge comes from the one “true”, already complete and infallible source of moral values and demands.
Perhaps I do but seeing as I'm focused on the idea that morality-via-subjective-opinions is valid, that isn't particularly the focus here.
However, I’m suggesting we are presented with moral problems, conjecture solutions to those problems, and discard those that do not withstand criticism (which includes exposing them to empirical tests) As such, we’re coming at the issue from completely opposite ends.
I don't take the people who use the word "empirical" in these sort of discussions very seriously.
As such, we’re coming at the issue from completely opposite ends.
On the contrary, I'm observing you and co try to explain why subjective opinions or the congregation thereof can offer anything that can be described as morality, especially for anyone other than yourselves.
There is no logical or rational “foundation” that forces anyone to value truth either. But this is not to suggest that it is completely subjective. That comes from the idea that knowledge must be based on some ultimate foundation that we can always turn to that will not lead us astray, such as an authoritative source, or it is not knowledge at all.
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
That is a specific philosophical idea about knowledge, which isn’t limited to theism. IOW, theism is a specific case of that philosophical view.
And theism is relevant because? I don't spend my day thinking about theism nor do I claim I'm a theist. I say I'm a Christian and while Christianity may be theistic, theism isn't Christian. I'd sooner see someone say they're a deist than a theist if their position is merely the affirmation of the idea that gods exist and you'd be hard-pressed to find a Christian tell you that all god-present religions are somehow true.
I’m suggesting that, assuming we do not give up, destroy ourselves first, etc., the people of 10,000 years from now will face new moral problems that we couldn’t even conceive of today and which no holy text will have guidance for.
Who said that assuming we don't destroy ourselves, we'll exist 10,000 years from now? On what basis do you claim no "holy text" will have guidance for such supposed futures? Care to explain what moral problems in an imaginary future will miraculously make Matt 22:37-40 go poof? You see, there was a time someone somewhere suggested there was a Vulcan somewhere around Mercury or something of the sort. Similarly, people today continue to suggest we'll find the fudge factor dark family with more searches despite all of them consistently coming up empty. Appeals to the future of this manner are not that impressive, and it seems we're far more likely to repeat the problems of the past than head into some untethered future.
We will need to create new moral knowledge that didn’t exist yet.
So what's next? Don't turn off your fellow automaton's battery pack if they continue to report to the hive mind? Any automaton that carries out any action that is not in line with Section U of the Great Hive Mind Coalition shall be subject to shutdown as decided by the Great Council of Knowingness?
All knowledge, including moral knowledge, grows though conjecture and criticism.
Over two millennia and we're still at don't murder, don't steal, etc.
On the other hand, you’re suggesting that moral knowledge doesn’t genuinely grow and has always existed as part of a being that “just was”, complete with that knowledge already present.
I'm waiting for anyone here to offer a valid explanation as to how morality can be derived from the subjective opinions of individuals or the congregation thereof. Whether I believe "moral knowledge" has always existed doesn't seem very relevant especially given the fact that I don't believe such a thing (or your presentation of it).Vy
February 19, 2017
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@Vy
If morality is subjective opinion, they didn’t “have” to do any such thing. You’re merely restating your opinion and subtly demanding it be used as a criteria for determining the “groundedness” of other subjective moralities.
The problem is that we have two very different perspectives. You have the idea that moral knowledge comes from the one "true", already complete and infallible source of moral values and demands. However, I'm suggesting we are presented with moral problems, conjecture solutions to those problems, and discard those that do not withstand criticism (which includes exposing them to empirical tests) As such, we're coming at the issue from completely opposite ends. There is no logical or rational "foundation" that forces anyone to value truth either. But this is not to suggest that it is completely subjective. That comes from the idea that knowledge must be based on some ultimate foundation that we can always turn to that will not lead us astray, such as an authoritative source, or it is not knowledge at all. That is a specific philosophical idea about knowledge, which isn't limited to theism. IOW, theism is a specific case of that philosophical view. For example, Empiricism is the idea that the ultimate foundation that cannot lead us astray is experience. Knowledge comes to us through the senses. But that idea has failed criticism as well and it merely exchanges one authority for another. I'm suggesting that, assuming we do not give up, destroy ourselves first, etc., the people of 10,000 years from now will face new moral problems that we couldn't even conceive of today and which no holy text will have guidance for. We will need to create new moral knowledge that didn't exist yet. All knowledge, including moral knowledge, grows though conjecture and criticism. It falls under a universal expiation for the grown of knowledge. Just as newton unified the motion of apples and planets, Popper presented a unified, universal theory of knowledge. On the other hand, you're suggesting that moral knowledge doesn't genuinely grow and has always existed as part of a being that "just was", complete with that knowledge already present. We'll keep taking past each other until we address and discuss these core differences about what knowledge is, if and how it grows, etc.critical rationalist
February 19, 2017
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Yes, the Bible says that its contents came from God. However, I could write a text that said that it too came from God.
~2+ millennia ago you couldn't.
For example, it could be that demons take the fun out of taking some actions because they know many people will take them and they want them to suffer while doing so.
Demons take the fun out of sinning because they want you to feel bad for sinning? Really???Vy
February 19, 2017
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Yes, I am stating my subjective opinion just like everyone else and there is no problem if each subject’s morality applies to and affects only themselves.
And that is the point.
For the person living alone on a desert island, injunctions against killing or stealing your neighbor’s property or coveting his ox are simply irrelevant. There is no neighbor to kill and no property to covet or steal.
Fascinating. Many would-be rapists would agree with you wrt the illegality of rape. If only it was legal, the subjective opinion of many others that rape is bad is "irrelevant".
When people live together in society, however, there is a need to regulate the way they behave towards one another.
And if you just so happen to live in a cannibalistic society, deciding who to eat the next day is part of that.
If people were able to do whatever they want there is a good chance that society would disintegrate into chaos.
And that is not good? Says who?
But if each member of society agrees that he or she will respect the interests and well-being of others in return for similar respects for his or her own interests then you have a good basis for morality.
Vacuous assertion. No more valid than: "But if each member of [your family] agrees that he or she will respect the interests and well-being of others [when it suits them and so far as they aren't caught murdering/stealing from/raping/X'ing them] in return for similar respects [due to ignorance of your behind-the-scenes actions] for his or her own interests then you have a good basis for morality"
Much better than some top-down “divine command” approach as it assumes and embodies the consent of the governed.
Much better? You seem to think claiming something like that helps your assertions.Vy
February 19, 2017
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If I don’t want to be killed by other people, isn’t it rational to try to come to an agreement with those other people that I won’t kill them if they don’t kill me, in other words, we agree that in principle killing is wrong, unless you have a very good reason.
Until you give a reason why anyone other than you "should" do anything concerning the grounding of the their own subjective morality, you're just restating your vacuous claim using new words. So, for the umpteenth time, WHY? What is so difficult about that question to understand? Why is my not wanting to be killed supposed to be relevant to my decision to murder others I can under an Atheistic, materialist morality-by-subjectivity worldview?
Is that so difficult?
You, like many other Atheists who I've seen try to tackle this problem, seem quite incapable of comprehending the matter. You just keep restating stuff after stuff after stuff.Vy
February 19, 2017
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Vy @ 79
If they wanted some sort of moral justification or warrant for what they did – and this discussion is about moral foundations – then they should have
If morality is subjective opinion, they didn’t “have” to do any such thing. You’re merely restating your opinion and subtly demanding it be used as a criteria for determining the “groundedness” of other subjective moralities.
Yes, I am stating my subjective opinion just like everyone else and there is no problem if each subject's morality applies to and affects only themselves. For the person living alone on a desert island, injunctions against killing or stealing your neighbor's property or coveting his ox are simply irrelevant. There is no neighbor to kill and no property to covet or steal. When people live together in society, however, there is a need to regulate the way they behave towards one another. If people were able to do whatever they want there is a good chance that society would disintegrate into chaos. But if each member of society agrees that he or she will respect the interests and well-being of others in return for similar respects for his or her own interests then you have a good basis for morality. Much better than some top-down "divine command" approach as it assumes and embodies the consent of the governed.Seversky
February 19, 2017
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@Dionisio
In this verse the Word is expressly affirmed to be God. The Word existed already “in the beginning” (a clear reference to the opening words of the Bible), which is a way of denoting the eternity that is unique to God. John states clearly, “the Word was God.”
Yes, the Bible says that its contents came from God. However, I could write a text that said that it too came from God. The experience you have reading either claim doesn’t include the validity of either having come from God or how to interpret them. That comes from a theory you bring to the table, so to speak. For example, one such theory is that God would not use human beings to create an Even Newer Testament. (The Mormons disagree) Or that he wouldn’t use a nonbeliever, or that the Bible itself claims it is complete, or that other claims in the document are not in line with what a perfectly good being would value or demand, etc. None of those things are present in the experience of reading either claim. My point isn’t that we’re completely lost or that there can be no knowledge, but that human reasoning and criticism always comes first. So, I fail to see how you’re in any better position than the non-theists you are criticizing.
A follower of Christ has the spirit of God dwelling within. That spirit takes the fun out of sinning.
I'm quite aware of this, Dionisio. In fact, you have presented a concrete example of theory by which you interpret your experience. But, again, nothing in our experience actually includes the correct interpretation. For example, it could be that demons take the fun out of taking some actions because they know many people will take them and they want them to suffer while doing so. That theory is perfectly compatible with what you experience as well. In fact, there are an infinite number of possible compatible explanations that we have yet to conceive of. It's unclear how you know you have the right interpretation. Again, what I’m saying is that human reasoning and criticism comes first, which is the very thing that is supposedly flawed and cannot be trusted. IOW, I’m trying to take your explanation for human moral behavior seriously for the purpose of criticism. And I’m assuming you really want me to take it seriously, as an explanation, as opposed to, say, dogma or faith, by asking for an alternative explanation.critical rationalist
February 19, 2017
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Vy @ 70
And until you give a reason why subjective morals “should” be anything for anyone other than you, that assertion is no more valid than: “moral codes should be the product of inter-subjective agreement [between family members]” Or “moral codes should be the product of [your mind]”
If I don't want to be killed by other people, isn't it rational to try to come to an agreement with those other people that I won't kill them if they don't kill me, in other words, we agree that in principle killing is wrong, unless you have a very good reason. Is that so difficult?Seversky
February 19, 2017
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Dionisio @ 65
What if the morally governed are divided by different opposite irreconcilable opinions? What do you suggest to be the rational basis for morality in such a case?
The Golden Rule. Our common interests as human beings. And since others here are fond of the odd quote or two:
MCCOY: Suffer the death of thy neighbour, eh, Spock? You wouldn't wish that on us, would you? SPOCK: It might have rendered your history a bit less bloody.
-- The Immunity Syndrome. Star Trek, The Original SeriesSeversky
February 19, 2017
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If they wanted some sort of moral justification or warrant for what they did – and this discussion is about moral foundations – then they should have
If morality is subjective opinion, they didn't "have" to do any such thing. You're merely restating your opinion and subtly demanding it be used as a criteria for determining the "groundedness" of other subjective moralities.
Why shouldn’t those people be heard?
Why should they?Vy
February 19, 2017
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Dionisio@ 64
Do you mean that unless the pro-abortionists get the agreement of all the unborn children likely to be affected by their actions then what they do is immoral?
Basically, yes. Personally, I believe that the right to life should cover the whole lifespan of an individual human being, from conception to coffin. Since the unborn cannot speak for themselves, I believe society has a moral duty to preserve those lives, except where doctors may be forced to make a choice between the life of the mother and that of the child.Seversky
February 19, 2017
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Dionisio @ 63
Were the Nazis supposed to care about others’ opinions on any subject? Were they supposed to depend on others’ approval of their plans or actions? Why?
As above, if they wanted some sort of moral foundation for what they did then they should have consulted those affected. Why shouldn't those people be heard?Seversky
February 19, 2017
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07:32 AM
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Dionisio @ 62
Seversky @59:
Did the Germans consult the Czechs, Poles, Belgians, Dutch French or Russian before invading them?
Did they have to? Why?
If they wanted some sort of moral justification or warrant for what they did - and this discussion is about moral foundations - then they should have. Since they obviously couldn't have cared less about such niceties, they didn't.Seversky
February 19, 2017
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07:32 AM
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Seversky @72:
why should one person’s views – whether a human dictator or a god – count over all others?
why not?Dionisio
February 19, 2017
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07:24 AM
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Dionisio @ 61
In the 1930s the Nazi Germans agreed amongst themselves that the best for them was to annihilate everyone they considered “subhuman” or “unfit”.
As I said before, the Nazis did not consult the "unfit" or "subhuman" before carrying out their policies. That's why they had no moral grounds for what they did. "Intersubjective agreement" in this context requires the agreement of all those who might be the subject of the proposed morality.Seversky
February 19, 2017
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07:20 AM
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