Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Darwinian Debating Device #18: The “You’re Too Stupid to Understand Why I’m Smarter than You” Dismissal

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

DDD # 18 is a particularly contemptible form of ad hominem, which Mark Frank and Elizabeth Liddle do us the service of demonstrating in the combox to this post. In the post Dr. Torley refers to Darwin’s Doubt by Dr. Stephen C. Meyer, which explains many of the shortcomings of various Darwinian narratives. Frank and Liddle tag team for a DDD #18:

Mark Frank:

[Meyer] explains perceived weaknesses in his understanding of evolutionary theory but gives no reason why design is a better alternative.

Liddle:

Exactly. His understanding of evolutionary theory is weak, and actual evolutionary theory is a better alternative.

Follow this link and take a look at what scientists who actually know what they are talking about have said about Darwin’s Doubt. A sample:

Darwin’s Doubt is by far the most up-to-date, accurate, and comprehensive review of the evidence from all relevant scientific fields that I have encountered in more than forty years of studying the Cambrian explosion. An engaging investigation of the origin of animal life and a compelling case for intelligent design.

Dr. Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig, Senior Scientist Emeritus (Biologist) at the Max Planck Institute for Plant Breeding Research

Darwin’s Doubt is an intriguing exploration of one of the most remarkable periods in the evolutionary history of life—the rapid efflorescence of complex body plans written in the fossils of the Burgess Shale . . . No matter what convictions one holds about evolution, Darwinism, or intelligent design, Darwin’s Doubt is a book that should be read, engaged, and discussed.

Dr. Scott Turner, Professor of Biology, State University of New York

Does anyone believe that numerous highly-credentialed scientists, many of whom specialize in biology, would recommend Meyer’s book if his “understanding of evolutionary theory is weak”? Of course not. What does this mean? It means that Elizabeth Liddle’s statement is false. I will leave it to others to debate whether she is merely too muddle-headed to understand that she has made an egregiously false ad hominem attack as a substitute for argument, or she knows the truth and has deliberately misled. The point is that either way, Liddle has avoided having to actually defend against Meyer’s claims by simply dismissing him as too stupid to understand why Darwinists like her are smarter than he. And that is contemptible.

Comments
"Well, I certainly know more about evolutionary theory than Meyer, that’s for sure." Progressive Name Your Price Commercial - video https://youtu.be/dz84cn0D9zA?t=15bornagain77
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
03:18 PM
3
03
18
PM
PDT
Barry:
Liddle has avoided having to actually defend against Meyer’s claims by simply dismissing him
Liddle:
untrue
Oh, my bad. I somehow missed in your 16 word comment the defense against Meyer's claims. You know what is utterly mystifying to me and I wish someone could explain it -- what does Liddle hope to accomplish by denying something so obviously true? Anyone can see that she simply dismissed Meyer out of hand, and there was not a single word devoted to defending against his claims. Yet when it is pointed out, she says "untrue."Barry Arrington
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
02:56 PM
2
02
56
PM
PDT
Well, I certainly know more about evolutionary theory than Meyer, that’s for sure.
Well of course you do Dr Liddle, of course you do. He doesn't even know how to create the rise of information from virtual critters in Brownian motion.Upright BiPed
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
02:49 PM
2
02
49
PM
PDT
Liddle has avoided having to actually defend against Meyer’s claims by simply dismissing him as too stupid to understand why Darwinists like her are smarter than he. And that is contemptible.
It is also untrue.Elizabeth Liddle
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
02:33 PM
2
02
33
PM
PDT
Upright Biped:
She knows the truth.
Well, I certainly know more about evolutionary theory than Meyer, that's for sure. I'm sure there's lots of stuff Meyer knows more about than I do.Elizabeth Liddle
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
02:31 PM
2
02
31
PM
PDT
For the record RB is absolutely right in #7. In fact I meant to write exactly what RB wrote: He explains weaknesses in evolutionary theory as he perceives them but gives no reason why design is a better alternative. I mistyped it that was all.Mark Frank
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
02:30 PM
2
02
30
PM
PDT
FWIW, I don't think Stephen Meyer is stupid at all. I think he's very smart. But he is no palaeontologist, and apparently doesn't see that as a problem. It is though, because he gets the actual predictions wrong.Elizabeth Liddle
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
02:29 PM
2
02
29
PM
PDT
@O'Leary
Still a leading work in the field since 2013. How likely is that because he does not understand the subject? A while back, one of Darwin’s followers said it was really just because the publishers were monkeying with the numbers by getting a lot of creationists to buy the book. In that case, I would suggest that the other publishers FIRE their marketing departments and hire people who know how to keep a book in the top ten for – what is it now, the better part of two years? I don’t buy that Darwin follower’s theory at all, but even if it were true, it would mostly go to show that catering to Darwinistas is a chump’s game compared to reaching out to thoughtful people.
Christian apologetics is big, profitable business. Gallop polls report every year or so that something like half of the American public believes that "God created man in his current form". That is, it's not half of Americans who think God was involved, perhaps guiding evolution, but, rather, that God created them de novo, no evolution. If that's the case, then combined with the various edifices of scientific knowledge on biology, cosmology, neurology, etc., there is and will be a very large market demand for such apologetics. I know in my extended family, which has many creationists, there's a lot of spending on books like this, and they get regularly recommended in churches, Christian radio and other media, as part of how a modern Christian keeps up with defending their faith. Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, grossed something like $8MM in just the US. Think about that. If that's the case, then it's a wonder stuff like Meyer puts out don't do better than they do, given the pervasive persecution complex the majority Christian community in America has developed because of the trajectory of scientific knowledge in the past century and more. Also, will someone comment on the disappearance of all of Aurelio Smith's posts? I guess I can conceive of some highly unusual accident resulting in the deletion of his user account and therefore all of his posts. But given the empirical evidence gathered over several years on this blog, it's impossible to avoid the suspicion that this is yet another case of administrative abuse on this forum. If it was an accident, I guess I'd expect there to be some acknowledgment of that.eigenstate
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
12:44 PM
12
12
44
PM
PDT
Of related interest:
Steve Meyer vs. hostile reviewer Charles Marshall (audio of debate) - Dec. 1, 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKqzQwT3JXk Conversations with Stephen Meyer - Responding to Critics – video playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLR8eQzfCOiS3oq-5NkSrGIIfCcpaKkOhT
Here is Dr. Giem's 'cliff notes' lecture series on Meyer's book Darwin's Doubt (including a review of the critical reviews of Darwin's Doubt)
Darwin's Doubt: The Explosive Origin of Animal Life and the Case for Intelligent Design - video playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHDSWJBW3DNUaMy2xdaup5ROw3u0_mK8t
Of related interest: Here is Dr. Giem's latest lecture which was just uploaded yesterday:
Beta-Pseudoglobin and Common Descent 5-9-2015 by Paul Giem - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syXTgAOZt3E A recent article argues that the beta-globin pseudogene is in fact used in regulating hemoglobin productions. This would destroy the argument that it is a shared mistake proving the common ancestry of apes and humans. The history of the controversy is reviewed.
bornagain77
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
12:21 PM
12
12
21
PM
PDT
Whatever the merits their quoted remarks, they aren't ad hominem at all: "Argumentum ad hominem means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments." I don't see any attack on Meyer's character at all in Mark's response:
He explains perceived weaknesses in his understanding of evolutionary theory but gives no reason why design is a better alternative.
I read that as "he explains weaknesses in evolutionary theory as he perceives them but gives no reason why design is a better alternative." Which has nothing to do with Meyer's character. Lizzie, somewhat differently, characterizes Meyer's understanding of evolution as weak - which is an characterization of his understanding of evolution, not his character or intelligence.Reciprocating Bill
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
12:18 PM
12
12
18
PM
PDT
REC:
2) Both have extensively blogged on this point elsewhere.
Indeed. There is plenty of evidence to substantiate my assertion at 5.Mung
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
11:15 AM
11
11
15
AM
PDT
Here's something to consider: Meyer's Darwin's Doubt, 2:00 pm EST Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #8,522 in Books (See Top 100 in Books) #2 in Books > Science & Math > Biological Sciences > Paleontology #2 in Books > Science & Math > Evolution > Organic #3 in Books > Christian Books & Bibles > Theology > Creationism http://www.amazon.com/Darwins-Doubt-Explosive-Origin-Intelligent/dp/0062071483 Still a leading work in the field since 2013. How likely is that because he does not understand the subject? A while back, one of Darwin's followers said it was really just because the publishers were monkeying with the numbers by getting a lot of creationists to buy the book. In that case, I would suggest that the other publishers FIRE their marketing departments and hire people who know how to keep a book in the top ten for - what is it now, the better part of two years? I don't buy that Darwin follower's theory at all, but even if it were true, it would mostly go to show that catering to Darwinistas is a chump's game compared to reaching out to thoughtful people.News
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
11:13 AM
11
11
13
AM
PDT
Elizabeth's understanding of Darwin's Doubt is weak.Mung
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
11:13 AM
11
11
13
AM
PDT
Barry should note: 1) VJ (ironically) posted this requirement: "And for skeptics of Intelligent Design: how would you attempt to rebut Dr. Meyer’s case, in 200 words or less?" 2) Both have extensively blogged on this point elsewhere.REC
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
11:06 AM
11
11
06
AM
PDT
This is why she positions herself as the first person to acknowledge any errors in her views. First, hell will freeze over.Upright BiPed
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
11:00 AM
11
11
00
AM
PDT
She knows the truth.Upright BiPed
May 10, 2015
May
05
May
10
10
2015
10:58 AM
10
10
58
AM
PDT
1 3 4 5

Leave a Reply