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Darwinists, please stop helping the chimp crazies

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Today, I posted on the Travis chimpanzee story – the gruesome results of imagining that chimpanzees are just people like us, only furry – a common theme in pop science mags.

In a comment, tsmith notes that Travis’s mother Suzy had also died after a rampage, in 2001.

That story by Rick Schapiro in New York Daily News (February 21, 2009) is here. More reports here.

Just like us, only furry? – It is an odd belief, when you think of it. But hre is a Times article that fronts the idea.

If we assume that chimps and humans are related on a Tree of Life, it makes no more sense to assume that we can live with chimps than to assume that we can just as safely live with a rattlesnake as with a ribbon snake*.

The assumption that rattlesnakes and ribbon snakes descended from a common ancestor says nothing whatever about the comparative degree of danger that either would represent if you brought one into your home.

You and I are descended from the same common ancestor as many serial killers, which should warn us that common descent is obviously a poor predictor of psychology and behaviour.

So the “chimp champs” have no business relying on arguments from the Tree of Life theory to bolster their case, whether the theory is true or false.

However, last I heard, Darwinian evolutionists were trying to get humans and chimps classified in the same genus.

Such a grossly irresponsible move would only give the chimp crazies a boost – about the last thing that is needed.

A responsible move on the part of biological science societies would be to make clear to the chimp crazies that chimps are not people, and living with people does not change them into people.

Viewing a chimp as a child does not make it one.

However, I fear crickets will be chirping Sweet Adeline before the societies do anything like that. They are fronting too much false knowledge about human origins to risk the obvious questions that would be asked.

(Ribbon snake – small, neither venomous nor a constrictor – lives mainly on frogs)

Comments
Madsen, you are not listening. I don't blame you - you are echoing an entire culture, and have a hard time understanding what I am saying. But let's try one more time: I don't CARE what Jane Goodall thinks. Absent the support of science societies, she is just another famous, aging do-gooder in the wilderness, lauded, documentarized, and then of course ignored. I said - and you quoted - "Instead of trying to score points with me, try to persuade biological science organizations to come out against keeping chimps as pets because they are not enough like humans to be reliable." So don't write back to this blog telling me what Jane Goodall says in some newspaper somewhere unless you can demonstrate that biological societies actually "come out against keeping chimps as pets because they are not enough like humans to be reliable." Instead of their usual stance of sponsoring and celebrating 98% chimpanzee stuff that - I assume unintentionally - but nonetheless supports the chimp crazies and the horrible results ... I would welcome the opportunity to publish anything like that, and I challenge you to provide it.O'Leary
March 18, 2009
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I find the Times article uncontroversial, though many here would disagree even with its first line ("Chimpanzees are humanity's closest living relatives.") It reports on findings about chimps with no sentimentality. Nobody would read it and conclude that chimps would make good pets. Many here would say they are no relatives at all. Why would a biological science organization have anything to say about pets? FASEB, the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology, has a statement about preventing pets (such as dogs and cats) from becoming research animals, but they don't say anything about what animals people should keep. And why should they? That's not their focus. That's the proper domain of the ASPCA, which has already declared its support for H.R. 80/S. 462—The Captive Primate Safety Act. FASEB has no need to declare anything about pet-keeping practices. Is there a specific society you're thinking of? Otherwise it sounds like another silly ultimatum.David Kellogg
March 18, 2009
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O'Leary,
Instead of trying to score points with me, try to persuade biological science organizations to come out against keeping chimps as pets because they are not enough like humans to be reliable. Get back to me with what happens.
The Jane Goodall Institute has, as per the link I provided. Goodall herself wrote an editorial recently on the tragedies, entitled "Sorry---not a pet" http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentary/40392632.html?page=1&c=y Note the subtitle: "A chimpanzee can never be fully domesticated (and suffers when we try)"madsen
March 18, 2009
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David Kellogg, for all practical purposes, when talking about science, the Times IS a pop science mag. It fronts science (= materialist science) to the public. Now here is what the article actually says: "As our nearest living cousin, Pan troglodytes has long been considered among the animal kingdom's leading candidates for a sophisticated intellect. Yet the extent to which chimp intelligence has been found to approach that of people has surprised even some primatologists, as has their ability to perform all sorts of skills once thought to be exclusively human. In January a chimp named Ayumu performed so well on a memory test that he beat a human, while scientists at the University of St Andrews have shown that chimps better four-year-olds at tasks that involve extracting a reward from a closed box. " Get it! Chimps are almost people. (I have replaced that article with a number of links but relink it here for reader convenience, and will then go and put it up again above.) Madsen, in the light of the kind of prattle quoted above, it makes little difference that the Jane Goodall Institute happens to have a Web site that claims that chimps don't make good pets. One does not NEED to endorse keeping chimps as pets if the entire pop science industry claims that they are almost people. Instead of trying to score points with me, try to persuade biological science organizations to come out against keeping chimps as pets because they are not enough like humans to be reliable. Get back to me with what happens.O'Leary
March 18, 2009
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I'm confused by the link to the Times Online. Denyse apparently provided it to support the view that "a common theme in pop science mags" is that "chimpanzees are just people like us, only furry." Two things are wrong with that. First, the Times article doesn't remotely support that idea. Second, the Times is not a pop science mag.David Kellogg
March 18, 2009
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So do you actually have examples of Darwinist scientists who recommend keeping chimps as pets? Jane Goodall doesn't seem to think it's a good idea: Chimpanzees Don’t Make Good Petsmadsen
March 18, 2009
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