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Darwin’s “Sacred” Cause: How Opposing Slavery Could Still Enslave

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darwin-as-ape3Those who follow the Darwin industry are very familiar with Darwin: The Life of a Tormented Evolutionist by Adrian Desmond and James Moore. In that biography they were one of the few biographers to highlight young Charles’ Edinburgh years (October 1825 to April 1827) and show the powerful influences that experience had on the teenager. Here too in Desmond and Moore’s new Darwin’s Sacred Cause, Edinburgh becomes the substantive starting point. This is as it should be since the freethinkers he would be exposed to in the radical Plinian Society (a largely student-based group Darwin seemed to relish given his attendance at all but one of its 19 meetings during his stay there) would have a profund influence on his thinking for the rest of his life. Desmond and Moore correctly acknowledge this, observing that this period “helped condition his life’s work on the deepest social — and scientific — issues” (17). Indeed the Plinians would steep Charles in a radical materialism that the present biographers admit was “mirrored” in his work a decade later (35).

All well and good so far. But not quite.  This is a book with its own cause. From the outset the authors explain frankly that , “We show the humanitarian roots that nourished Darwin’s most controversial and contested work on human ancestry” (xviii). And those “humanitarian roots,” we are told again and  again throughout its 376 narrative pages was Darwin’s passionate and unwavering hatred of slavery.  “No one has appreciated the source of that moral fire that fuelled his strange, out-of-character obsession with human origins. Understand that,” they insist, “and Darwin can be radically reassessed” (xix).  And what is that reassessment?  The reader is not left waiting:  “Ours is a book about a caring, compassionate man who was affected for life by the scream of a tortured slave” (xx).

At issue, of course, isn’t the horrific abomination of slavery nor Darwin’s abhorrence of it (this has long been known and acknowledged by historians) but rather the purported impact that Desmond and Moore claim his abolitionism had on his theory’s development and purpose.  In short, the question is, does the anti-slavery Darwin necessarily make for a “kinder, gentler” Darwin? An affirmative answer must rest upon two supports, one conceptual and the other factual. The remainder of this essay will examine both to answer this question.

 
One of the more interesting trajectories of this book is it anchoring in Darwin’s early Edinburgh years, a comparatively short period but one fraught with significance for Darwin.  In this starting point I fully concur with Desmond and Moore.  While many look to his voyage on the Beagle (December 1831 to October 1836) as introducing the young naturalist to the fullness of nature’s laboratory that would culminate in his theory of natural selection and a wholly naturalistic evolutionary theory, these authors point to the earlier Edinburgh experiences as establishing the seminal backdrop for all else that would follow.  They point out that Edinburgh was rife with discussions of race, cranial size, and phrenology.  Some attempted to demonstrate the validity of scientifc racism, others the opposite. All — or nearly all — were cast in materialistic terms. Desmond and Moore’s summary is quite accurate:

So this wasn’t the barren period Darwin in his biography would have us believe.  Issues of environmental versus anatomical determinism, and a self-animated versus a Creatively animated nature, were being thrashed out all around him, issues which would have repurcussions for generations, inside and outside Darwin’s own work.  Arguments about brain sizes, innate dispositions and racial categories were still raging, putting a consensus some way off.  Groups were competing to sway the students and Darwin was at the center of it. But the young innocent probably wasn’t so much embroiled as wide-eyed.  Still, many of these themes would later resurface in his own work on human racial descent (43).

During Darwin’s stay at Cambridge, he too was exposed to many ideas, not the least of which was a vocal but conflicted anti-slavery impluse.  Through it all, insist Desmond and Moore, Darwin “held fast with radically pliant ‘brotherbood’ science and shackle-breaking ideology in true Whig tradition” (57).  Indeed Darwin would, according to the authors, reject the measuring, weighting, calculating racial anthropologists (those self-important, confident phrenologists and physiognomists)  he had found in Edinburgh.  “No skull collecting would mark his science,” they insist.” He would find a very different way of approaching black and white, slave and free” (110).

It is important to keep this claim in mind since it is crucial to Desmond and Moore’s thesis that while he became a “secret materialist — happy to have brains secrete even religious notions as physiological byproducts” (132), he would eschew the scientific racism implicit (and more often than not explicit) in this radical materialism in favor of a wholly naturalistic theory confirming a common descent and botherhood of all mankind. They refer to it as generations of “brotherly common descents” (141).

How he accomplishes this forms a considerable part of Darwin’s Sacred Cause. Basically, by establishing common descent as a viable scientific paradigm, Darwin was able to settle the old monogenist/polygenist debate once and for all.  The monogenists viewed human development on earth as emanating from a common pair — this was, for some, most eloquently described in the opening chapters of Genesis.  But there were non-biblical monogenists as well.  Polygenists, however, believed in multiple origins for humanity.  As America headed towards Civil War, the polygenists held the upper hand.  The biblical monogenism of James Cowles Prichard (1786-1848) looked antiquated against the “scientific” racism of Josiah Clark Nott (1804-1873), George R. Gliddon (1809-1857), and others. Desmond and Moore describe in detail how Darwin sought to establish a viable counter to the polygenists with an explanation of human origins that was at once naturalistic and based upon a common descent.  In effect, a science of human oneness and brotherhood.  They describe how the publication of Darwin’s Origin in 1859 tipped the scales permanently in his favor, citing the example of Charles Loring Brace (1826-1890), an abolitionist firebrand who claimed to have read the book thirteen times.

All this is true.  Darwin was adamantly opposed to slavery, Darwin did end — eventually — the polgenists’ claim to scientific respectability.  But this alone would hardly warrant a book.  As mentioned before, historians have long known of Darwin’s consistent antipathy towards slavery.  As for his role in settling the monogenist/polygenist dispute, that too has long been known (n. 1). The essential problem with Desmond and Moore’s effort is their naive assumption that anti-slavery means egalitarian and humanitarian.  This is a conceptual problem that haunts the book throughout. There really is no reason to assume an immediate and direct relationship between the one and the other, and the example of Charles Loring Brace given above goes not only to this point but to demonstrate the selective treatment they give to this whole subject.  Charles Loring Brace was indeed a vocal opponent of slavery and also and ardent Darwinist. What Desmond and Moore do not say is that Brace viewed blacks as inherently inferior and was himself a vocal opponent of miscegenation.  In the words of historian George M. Fredrickson, Brace made “the Darwinian case for differentiation of the races by natural selection . . . [and] ended up with a view of racial differences which was far from egalitarian in its implications” (n. 2). Brace held out little hope for “the mullato” and finished up by declaring, “there is nothing in the gradual diminution and destruction of a savage or inferior race in contact with a more civilized and powerful which is ‘mysterious’ . . . . The first gifts of civilization are naturally fatal to a barbarous people . . . . (n. 3). Fredrickson quite accurately points out that “Brace’s pioneering effort to devolop a Darwinist ethnology in opposition to the American School, although animated to some degree by antislavery humanitarianism, had demonstrated that most of the hierarchical assumptions of the polygenists could be justified just as well, if not better, in Darwinian terms” (n. 4).

The example of Josiah Clark Nott underscores this point.  Desmond and Moore spend considerable time showing how the Alabamian’s rabid polygenism formed the basis for an extreme racism and justification for slavery; they fail to point out that in the end Nott was able to reconcile with Darwinism.  Nott recognized at once that he had been outdone by Darwin’s irreligious formulations.  Writing to Ephraim Squire in the summer of 1860, Nott quipped, “the man [Darwin] is clearly crazy, but it is a capital dig into the parson — it stirs up Creation and much good comes out of such thorough discuassions” (n. 5).  In the end, Nott came to accept Darwin’s theory of man’s common descent.  Indeed he claimed nothing of what he wrote on the race question was negated but simply refined, and who was not to say that even in Darwin’s world races might not be “permanent varieties” (n. 6).  The point, of course, isn’t whether or not any of this is true — it is obvious nonsense and most of Nott’s contemporaries recognized it as such — but whether Darwin’s defeat of polygenist theory and its replacement with his common descent really had any difference in the end toward establishing a science of brotherhood is doubtful.  Brace, Nott, and many others could enbrace common descent precisely because it suggested nothing close to racial brotherhood.

This poor conceptualization of anti-slavery and ipso facto humanitarianism is compounded by a misunderstanding of Darwin himself.  Desmond and Moore correctly point out the crucial impact that the Edinburgh freethinkers had upon him and his theory, but they are simply wrong in contending that he distanced himself from their emerging racial craniology.  Their denials notwithstanding, there were skulls in Darwin’s science.  In his Descent of Man (1871) Paul Boca’s crantiometry is referenced approvingly.  While Darwin was careful to avoid the implication that “the intellect of any two animals or of any two men can be accurately gauged by the cubic contents of their skulls,” he seemed to give accumulated aggregate craniometric data some evidentiary weight.  “The belief that there exists in man some close relation between the size of the brain and the development of the intellectual faculties is supported by the comparison of skulls of savage and civilized races, of ancient and modern people, and by the analogy of the whole vertebrate series” (n. 7).  Citing the work of physician/craniologist Joseph Barnard Davis (1801-1881), Darwin noted that Europeans had a cranial capacity of 92.3, Americans 87.5, Asiatics 87.1, and Australians 81.9 cubic inches.  Clearly, if Darwin did in fact believe in a brotherhood of man it was a very unequal brotherhood.

Darwin’s “bullbog defender” Thomas Henry Huxley provides yet another example.  A devoted Darwinian, Huxley did not translate common descent into common equality.  Like Brace, Huxley was relieved to witness the end of America’s “peculiar institution.”  Writing at the end of the war that had raged for four years across the Atlantic, Huxley said, “But whatever the position of stable equilibrium into which the laws of social gravitation may bring the negro, all responsibility for the result will henceforward lie between nature and him. The white man may wash his hands of it, and the Caucasian conscience be void of reproach for evermore.  And this, if we look to the bottom of the matter, is the real justification for the abolition policy” (n. 8). Even Desmond and Moore must admit that Huxley “shared none of Darwin’s ‘man and brother’ sympathy” (275).

But how keen really was that “man and brother” sympathy for Darwin himself?  After well over 300 pages of explication designed to show how Darwin’s anti-slavery passion led to his “brotherly common descent” we find the crux of the matter:  “It was a humanitarianism that Darwin took pride in. His anti-slavery and anti-cruelty ethic was inviolate. Yet the incongruity of his class holding this ethic sacrosanct while disparaging the ‘lower’ classes (even as colonists displaced or exterminated them) [emphasis added] is impossible to comprehend by twenty-first century standards” (370).  Darwin was indeed a product of his class as any reading of his Descent will prove; in fact, it formed the very basis of his conception of man as a social animal (n. 9).  But it will take more than Desmond and Moore’s eight pages of dismissive discussion of Descent to see that.  Instead the quotation above would imply they’re trying get Darwin off the hook by pleading he was just a “man of his times” and failure to appreciate this dichotomy is mere presentism.  Frankly, it would have been incomprehensible for some in the nineteenth century as well — Thaddeus Stevens (1792-1868), Theodore Weld (1803-1895), William Lloyd Garrison (1805-1879), Wendell Phillips (1811-1884), John Marshall Harlan (1833-1911), and George Frisbie Hoar (1826-1904) found this kind of hypocracy repugnant.  Darwin’s work was supposed to be prescient, path-breaking, revolutionary.  But by book’s end Darwin looks pretty conventional, even compliantly if somewhat minimally racist himself.  Writing to former slave-holder Charles Kingsley, Darwin admits, “It is very true what you say about the higher races of men, when high enough, will have spread & exterminated whole nations.”  Desmond and Moore admit, “racial genocide was now normalized by natural selection and rationalized as nature’s way of producing ‘superior’ races. Darwin ended up calibrating human ‘rank’ no differently from the rest of his society.  After shunning talk of ‘high’ and ‘low’ in his youthful evolution books, he had ceased to be unique or interesting on the subject” (318).

So in the end we find Darwin’s “sacred” cause was, well, not all that sacred. His cause was less about slavery and more about common descent, which in the final analysis had nothing whatsoever to do with equality.  In fact, it could easily be argued Darwin cleared out the polygenists to give way to a new generation of racial discriminators and engineers.  Based upon Darwinian principles, Darwin’s fascination with breeder and domestic stocks, opened the door to manipulating human “stock,” of managing and even culling the “unfit.” Not that Darwin himself would have condoned that, but surely, Francis Galton (1822-1911), took the evolutionary ball handed him by his cousin and ran with it.  In the end, Darwin’s cause was hardly humanitarian and by no means sacred.  As the lampooning cartoon that opens this essay suggests, if Darwin proved that man is a mere animal related (however distantly) to his ape ancestors then, like the domestic pigeons he was so fond of studying and analogizing from, mankind was capable of being bred, manipulated, and “improved.”  That sort of biological historicism unleashed by Darwinian theory has exacted an enormous price.

Of course, this suggests a connection between Darwin and the more unseemly Social Darwism.  I have likely imposed upon the reader’s time long enough, but for those who would like to explore this in greater detail, Mike Hawkin’s Social Darwinism in European and American Thought, 1860-1945 (Cambridge UP, 1997) is highly recommended.  For now, I will simply say that Darwin’s Sacred Cause has proved not what its authors intended, but instead that passionate opposition to slavery could — indeed did — enslave this Victorian elitist who was shackled (if not by racism) by a theory that was crafted to support his own class and prejudice.  History is full of irony!

Notes

1. See Herbert H. Odum, “Generalizations on Race in Nineteenth-Century Physical Anthropology,” Isis 58.1 (Spring 1967): 4-18.

2. George M. Fredrickson, The Black Image in the White Mind: The Debate on Afro-American Character and Destiny, 1817-1914 (New York: Harper Torchbook, 1971), p. 234.

3. Quoted in Ibid., p. 235.

4. Ibid.

5. John S. Haller Jr., Outcasts from Evolution: Scientific Attitudes of Racial Inferiority, 1859-1900, 2nd ed. (Carbondale: Southern Illinois University Press, 1995), p. 80.

6. Ibid.

7. Charles Darwin, Descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex (1871; reprinted, New York: Barnes & Noble, 2004), p. 42.

8. Thomas Henry Huxley, “Emancipation — Black and White” (1865),  http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/CE3/B&W.html accessed 2/15/09.

9.  Like his fellow Victorian imperialists, Darwin could view the extinction of indigenous peoples with an unsettling indifference. There is considerable evidence to support the view that Darwin saw struggle as product of culture and class more than race:  “When civilized nations come into contact with barbarians the sturggle is short, except where a deadly climate gives its aid to the native race. Of the causes which lead to the victory of civilized nations, some are plain and simple, others complex and obscure. We can see that the cultivation of the land will be fatal in many ways to savages, for they cannot, or will not, change their habits. . . . The grade of their civilization seems to be a most important element in the success of competing nations.” Descent, op. cit., p. 156.

Darwin always viewed indigenous peoples with the Eurocentric eyes of power and class, and he had thought this long before writing Descent. In The Voyage of the Beagle he wrote the following of the natives he encountered on Tierra del Fuego:

The perfect equality among the individuals composing the Fuegian tribes must for a long time retard their civilization. As we see those animals, whose instinct compels them to live in society and obey a chief, are most capable of improvement, so it is with the races of mankind. Whether we look at it as a cause or consequence, the more civilized always have the more artificial governments. For instance, the inhabitants of Otaheite, who, when first discovered, were governed by hereditary kings, had arrived at a far higher grade than another branch of the same people, the New Zealanders, — who, although benefited by being compelled to turn their attention to agriculture, were republicans in the most absolute sense. In Tierra del Fuego, until some chief shall arise with power sufficient to secure any acquired advantage, such as the domestication of animals, it seems scarcely possible that the political state of the country can be improved. At present, even a piece of cloth given to one is torn into shreds and distributed; and no one individual becomes richer than another. On the other hand, it is difficult to understand how a chief can arise till there is property of some sort by which he might manifest his superiority and increase his power.

I believe, in this extreme part of South America, man exists in a lower state of improvement than in any other part of the world. — Charles Darwin, The Voyage of the Beagle, 2nd ed. (1845; reprinted, New York: Tess Press, n.d.), pp. 214-215.

Basing Darwin’s humanitarianism on his abhorrence of slavery and a purported “brotherhood of man” largely misses the point. Historians have long known that Darwin’s racial classifications were based more upon levels of cultural attainment than ethnic groups. See, for example, Goria McConnaughey, “Darwin and Social Darwinism,” Osiris 9 (1950): 397-412.

Comments
. I can’t think of anything I can do better than him . . . Wait a couple of months (weeks) :-)tribune7
February 20, 2009
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#96 Subjective: The instinct written on every human heart that allows it to apprehend the natural moral law. Some call it “conscience.” It is the psychological principle upon which political freedom rests Well that's the key isn't it? The phraseology is rather flowery - but basically you are saying that most humans have much the same ideas about what is right and what is wrong. I agree. But it is still - as you say - subjective.Mark Frank
February 20, 2009
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#95 Well you can hardly deny Obama is bigger than me - I am 5' 6". I can't think of anything I can do better than him - maybe speak in a British accent.Mark Frank
February 20, 2009
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-----Mark: "No one is denying that you can argue from “X is good” to “you ought to do X”. The point is how do you get to “X is good” from the bare non-moral facts about X." Are you talking about God? I thought I made it clear that I was beginning with the operating assumption that God was good. In other words, IF God is good, therefore.................. Or, do I misunderstand your question? ----"I don’t know what a “natural moral law” is - so I don’t know whether it is moral or non-moral itself. A few example might help here." By natural moral law, I refer to two espects: Objective: That law which is written in nature by the creator, that is, moral precepts that are inherent in human nature,(The Ten Commandments, The Golden Rule, etc.) Subjective: The instinct written on every human heart that allows it to apprehend the natural moral law. Some call it "conscience." It is the psychological principle upon which political freedom rests.StephenB
February 20, 2009
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Mark --Barack Obama is both bigger and better than me. I guess that's the difference, Mark. Because I worship God, I don't think there is another person better than me, nor do I think I am better than anyone else. All souls are equal.tribune7
February 20, 2009
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re #91 Once the “good” is acknowledged, as an “is, then the “ought to” becomes an “Is.” StephenB No one is denying that you can argue from "X is good" to "you ought to do X". The point is how do you get to "X is good" from the bare non-moral facts about X. I don't know what a "natural moral law" is - so I don't know whether it is moral or non-moral itself. A few example might help here.Mark Frank
February 20, 2009
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#90 I don't know of any moral principle that says people are duty bound to worship things that are bigger and better than them. Barack Obama is both bigger and better than me. I feel no obligation whatsoever to worship him.Mark Frank
February 20, 2009
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Re #85 ericB The issue was the truth of your premise 3: Since “ought” as a conclusion can never be derived from any list of purely “is” premises, every argument that concludes “ought” requires one or more “ought” premises. I agree with this. Stephenb doesn't. So I am glad to see you agree with me!Mark Frank
February 20, 2009
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Mark, Eric, the “Ought to” is just one species of the genus 'good,’ as is “the natural moral law.” Once the “good” is acknowledged, as an “is, then the “ought to” becomes an “Is.” So, we are reasoning from “is” to “Is,” provided I assume a good God exists, which is exactly what I did. Also, the bridge between “is and “ought” poses a problem only the first time morality is under consideration. Once one has learned something about the “ought,” he can then bring to the next observation. Even if we begin with a clean slate intellectually, we need not remain a clean slate. Even at that we need not be so restrictive. Remember that Hume, the author of this dilemma was an empiricist. Empiricism, by the way is an extreme on one end of the epistemological continuum just as rationalism is an extreme on the other end. The former assumes that knowledge is solely a function of sense experience, while the latter assumes that knowledge is solely a function of the intellect. In fact, knowledge is a function of BOTH, as the epistemological position of realism attests. That means that we do possess some capacity to recognize self evident truths independent of the reasoning process. If a good God created a natural moral law, then we ought to follow it. There is nothing remarkable about this at all. Romans 1 reads, “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, (IS) being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. (OUGHT TO)” That statement, by the way, is not theological; it is philosophical, which is what gives it all its weight. To put things bluntly, Hume and Moore were atheists looking for loopholes. We should not fall into the same trap.StephenB
February 20, 2009
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Mark, You are supposed to worship God because He is bigger and better than you. Why do you have a problem with that?tribune7
February 20, 2009
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Allen wrote: "Darwin isn’t celebrated by most evolutionary biologists because he “made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist”. Darwin is celebrated because he revolutionized the science of biology. We had a week of seminars, symposia, presentations, etc. on Darwin’s scientific work at Cornell, and at not one of them was “making it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist” the subject." Yet Alfred Russel Wallace did the same thing Darwin did, and he is not lionized. The ancient Greeks had concepts of evolution centuries prior to Darwin's birth and yet they are not celebrated. J.M. Barrie, the Scottish novelist, once wrote that one's religion is whateve one is most interested in. By that standard, Darwinism is a religion. "And if someone were to put together a “Galileo Day/Week” celebration at Cornell, do you think people (especially in the astronomy department) wouldn’t participate? Is it some kind of indictment of biologists that we have our act together enough to put together a “festshrift” around the work of a fellow biologist?" It's not an indictment, it's an observation. Darwin stood on the shoulders of others who came before him as well as his contemporaries (Wallace) and published first. Quite frankly, I can't think of another scientist so honored.Barb
February 20, 2009
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To Mark Frank and StephenB, there is a perhaps unavoidable stalemate in such discussions. 1. As a practical requirement, every line of reasoning needs to start somewhere, i.e. with axioms that are accepted as given, without needing additional proof. 2. To be persuasive to both parties, a line of reasoning must begin with axioms that are acceptable to both parties, and then work forward from there. 3. Since "ought" as a conclusion can never be derived from any list of purely "is" premises, every argument that concludes "ought" requires one or more "ought" premises. 4. Reapplying #3, and taken with the above, that means that to reason about "ought" one will ultimately need access to acceptable moral axioms, i.e. "ought" that is accepted as true without need of further proof. 5. If one party denies (or is sufficiently skeptical of) the transcendent and accepts only axioms related to the physical, i.e. "is" premises, then there cannot be any mutually agreeable starting point -- precisely because one can never get to an "ought" conclusion starting from only "is" premises. 6. Ergo, attempts to wrangle around this fundamental issue are doomed to futility. The only way out is out is to come to the place where one (by one means or another) perceives and accepts the reality of transcendent moral "ought" as one perceives and accepts the reality of "is" axioms. You simply can never get there by proving something starting from shared "is" axioms. Can't be done. So, unless Mark Frank considers one or more "ought" axioms as being acceptable without need of proof, any wrangling to derive one by reasoning is *guaranteed* to be futile.ericB
February 20, 2009
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#85 and #86 I am now truly confused. We started off by trying to decide whether you can deduce whether something is good from a statement of fact. You approached this by saying "good" mean't "functions as designed" so therefore if something functioned as designed it was good. But now I think you are saying (but I may be wrong) Designed things are good because God is good (not just because they perform as designed) God is good and is not designed. Therefore by "good" you don't just mean "functions as designed". Therefore, you cannot use this definition of good to deduce an ought from an is.Mark Frank
February 20, 2009
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----Mark: "But again – what made this a good God? Which design was it fulfilling in order to count as good? Whose design?" God, by the classical definition "is" being, truth, goodness, unity, and beauty, while we can "have" it by participating in it in a small way. So, the creature would be good by operating the way it was designed to operate. On the other hand, the creator was not designed, because God (classical definition) is a self existent being. In keeping with that point, nothing made God good because God wasn't created.StephenB
February 20, 2009
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----Mark Frank: "We are only doing thought experiments – not reality. So let’s hypothesize an omniscient and omnipotent being that wants humans to suffer and inflict suffering on each other. All other supernatural entities are less powerful. You don’t have to call it the Devil." I would say that if such a being was the creator of the universe, then there would be no such thing as goodness. So, unless the creator is good and can impart goodness to the creation, then operating according to design would not constitute goodness because there would be no such thing as goodness. So, my definition of good is contingent on a good God. Also, I wrote, Creatures have the power to create only because they have been given a small part of God’s creative power, which includes the gifts of intellect and will. The Devil cannot design or create without those faculties, all of which depend on a creator who will provide them. ----Mark Frank: "That’s what you believe. It is not what I believe." Well, I only know of two possibilities. Either our intellect and will are gifts, or else they emerged from matter and chance. Perhaps you find the second way plausible, I don't.StephenB
February 19, 2009
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#78 StephenB The devil cannot exist without God, so your scenario is impossible. We are only doing thought experiments – not reality. So let’s hypothesize an omniscient and omnipotent being that wants humans to suffer and inflict suffering on each other. All other supernatural entities are less powerful. You don't have to call it the Devil. Even if it were possible, the devil, by definition, does not embody the perfect qualities of truth, goodness, unity, beauty, and being in order to impart those things on his “creation.” That means that the principle of design cannot be there so nothing can operate according to that principle. Are you saying that design cannot exist without truth, goodness, unity, beauty? But you were defining good in terms of “fulfils” design. So now design requires goodness – but what design is this goodness fulfilling? Seems like things are getting a bit circular. Creatures have the power to create only because they have been given a small part of God’s creative power, which includes the gifts of intellect and will. The Devil cannot design or create without those faculties, all of which depend on a creator who will provide them. That’s what you believe. It is not what I believe. We seem to have slipped out of thought experiments to test the logic of whether “ought” can follow from “is” into your personal religious beliefs. One of the reasons why a “good” thing is one which operates according to its designs, is because the principle of order and design were put there by a good God. If a good God did not create nature for a good purpose, then there can be no morality or no goodness. In that respect, it is appropriate to worship only a good God, because a bad God is not worthy of worship. Indeed, it is only perfect goodness has any moral right to worship at all. But again – what made this a good God? Which design was it fulfilling in order to count as good? Whose design?Mark Frank
February 19, 2009
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#79 Tribune7 Sorry - doesn't do it for me. I still don't see any why I ought to worship a God of any hue.Mark Frank
February 19, 2009
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To StephenB and others, one cannot legitimately introduce terms into the conclusion that are not present in any of the premises (at least implicitly). So, if one has a legitimate argument that leads to an "ought" in the conclusion, that will always mean that somewhere there is at least a tacit premise that specifies an "ought". If you haven't already read C.S. Lewis's The Abolition of Man, I'd highly recommend it.ericB
February 19, 2009
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To Allen_MacNeill, although you may find other targets easier and more tempting, I'm wondering whether or not you have a response to my post. [To answer your more recent question for the record, I've never maintained that atheists/materialists cannot choose goals or codes for living according to whatever preferences they may have. Nor have I maintained they break the law more often than others. Such ideas have no place in my argument. So is it too much to ask you to come back from that tempting diversion to the points I am raising? Or do you concede them?] What I do maintain is that from the materialist standpoint, there exists only what is (including personal emotions and preferences), without the possibility of any transcendent and distinct "ought" to compare it to. Lacking something beyond the physical realm that "is", the materialist has no rational basis to say of anything that has happened, that was not as it "ought" to be. Whatever he may feel about matters, within that viewpoint it would be unreasonable to think nature is committing wrongs in what it does or produces. So, it is not sufficient for you to point out the error of trying to derive "ought" from science. That is true, so far as it goes. But recognizing that as an error does not imply that the materialist has an alternative that is not equally in error. To simply assume the materialist has a way out of the dilemma would be to beg the question at hand. The consequence is that, from the materialist viewpoint, to speak of Darwin's sacred cause is rhetorical nonsense. By the force of your own point about the error of drawing "ought" out of science, Darwin's theory is utterly powerless to contribute any "ought" to human choice. Nor does the materialist have any other source beyond the physical realm that "is" from which to obtain it. In other words, for the materialist, nature cannot have done "wrong" regardless of what has happened. In a nutshell, do you find *any* basis upon which to attach moral "wrong" to *anything* that nature has produced?ericB
February 19, 2009
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[I guess I at least am still beating this subject to death.] Charlie [54]:
Let’s just be clear on what Darwin wanted/thought should be the implications of his theory. He thought it ought to influence an entire new metaphysics. He thought it ought to inform legislators and be applied culturally and socially. He thought that civilized societies ought to strive for greater and continued advancements and they ought to do so through the better members of society out-breeding the worse. He thought that society must, by no means, curtail the principle pillars of his theory - the heritability of both desirable and undesirable traits culled by natural selection. He thought there ought to be no law or custom which allowed the lesser members of society to outbreed the superior ones. He hoped that whatever checks existed on the free marriage and reproduction of the unfit would be increased indefinitely.
It is not clear that Darwin thought this. It's only clear that you think he thought it. And why you think it is not clear either as you have not provided a single quote to substantiate it. If you were looking in the articles of Flannery or Denyse I don't blame you because its not there either.
Defend him as you will, but defend his true statements.
Well since you didn't actually provide any yourself, I'll have to provide my own (from Denyse's article): "The advancement of the welfare of mankind is a most intricate problem: all ought to refrain from marriage who cannot avoid abject poverty for their children; for poverty is not only a great evil, but tends to its own increase by leading to recklessness in marriage" Seems like a measured, careful and reasonable remark on the subject, not the remark of someone who has a radical agenda for social change. "There should be open competition for all men; and the most able should not be prevented by laws or customs from succeeding best and rearing the largest number of offspring" Here, Darwin continues to make a direct application of his ideas to social policy. But his application is very measured and cautious and reasonable. (Not to mention very limited and non-specific). Who could possibly disagree with his remarks? Darwin was a theoretician, and a philosopher, not a politician. Yet he felt obligated to make some limited observations in reference how his ideas might pertain to social issues. He does this perfunctorily, out of a sense of obligation, lest his ideas be misinterpreted, and whereas he does not want to diminish his theoretical ideas or their validity, he by no means has a clearly thought out application for them in a political or social context. His opening remark above "The advancement of the welfare of mankind is a most intricate problem" is his euphemistic way of stating this very thing. That is what is patently clear. In Denyse's extensive quotation from The Descent of Man she finally got around to Darwin's own explicit stated conclusion on the matter:
The main conclusion arrived at in this work, namely, that man is descended from some lowly organised form, will, I regret to think, be highly distasteful to many. But there can hardly be a doubt that we are descended from barbarians. The astonishment which I felt on first seeing a party of Fuegians on a wild and broken shore will never be forgotten by me, for the reflection at once rushed into my mind-such were our ancestors. These men were absolutely naked and bedaubed with paint, their long hair was tangled, their mouths frothed with excitement, and their expression was wild, startled, and distrustful. … He who has seen a savage in his native land will not feel much shame, if forced to acknowledge that the blood of some more humble creature flows in his veins.
So in his conclusion he is stating in effect, "These Barbarians are you and me." And his explicit goal in all that preceded this was to make understandable to Europeans the idea that they were descended from Apes. Where in the above, in his stated conclusion is a social agenda alluded to? He talks about "the blood of more humble creatures flowing in his veins." Patronizing? yes. The rhetoric of a proto-hitler? Hardly. Darwin at his lofty perch in society was not threatened by anyone's race. It is slander in my opinion to imply that Darwin was intent on developing a scientific rationale for institutionalized racism or extermination or eugenics. ------------------------- And also a side note (not specifically related to the above) on the subject of extermination, consider all the problems settlers of the American West had with Indians. It wasn't just a matter of white settlers exterminating Indians. Indians did their own share of "exterminating" themselves, of white settlers. Certainly a similar dynamic could undoubtedly be observed in places like South Africa, at roughly the same time (I presume). This is just to state the obvious that it wasn't a matter of noble savages sitting around peacefully and the whites coming in and exterminating them. There were severe conflicts between two cultures - over resources, over land, and over sovereignty. And yet the more advanced settlers were ultimately winning, and were descimating and marginalizing native cultures. And they weren't winning because of Charles Darwin. They were winning because it was inevitable, and Charles Darwin was not espousing extermination to remark on the inevitability of this process in his scientific works. --------------------- misc. quotes from Flannery: Darwinian principles, Darwin’s fascination with breeder and domestic stocks, opened the door to manipulating human “stock,” of managing and even culling the “unfit.” Not that Darwin himself would have condoned that Basing Darwin’s humanitarianism on his abhorrence of slavery and a purported “brotherhood of man” largely misses the point. Historians have long known that Darwin’s racial classifications were based more upon levels of cultural attainment than ethnic groups and O'Leary: [Darwin:] Slavery, although in some ways beneficial during ancient times, is a great crime; yet it was not so regarded until quite recently, even by the most civilised nations. And this was especially the case, because the slaves belonged in general to a race different from that of their masters.” In Denyse's comments she focuses on the latter part of Darwin's statement, and his supposed error that slaves were generally of a different race than their masters. But its not even clear she's parsing the sentence correctly, as Darwin's time frame also includes "until quite recently". But she also misses the point: Darwin is saying that racism is the only factor that has kept people from recognizing slavery to be "a great evil".JT
February 19, 2009
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Mark Frank -- Whether it be the mean God or the loving God I don’t see why I ought to worship it (in the moral sense of “ought”). . How about this? :
We know him only by his most wise and excellent contrivances of things, and final cause: we admire him for his perfections; but we reverence and adore him on account of his dominion: for we adore him as his servants; and a god without dominion, providence, and final causes, is nothing else but Fate and Nature. Blind metaphysical necessity, which is certainly the same always and every where, could produce no variety of things. All that diversity of natural things which we find suited to different times and places could arise from nothing but the ideas and will of a Being necessarily existing. But, by way of allegory, God is said to see, to speak, to laugh, to love, to hate, to desire, to give, to receive, to rejoice, to be angry, to fight, to frame, to work, to build; for all our notions of God are taken from. the ways of mankind by a certain similitude, which, though not perfect, has some likeness, however. And thus much concerning God; to discourse of whom from the appearances of things, does certainly belong to Natural Philosophy.
tribune7
February 19, 2009
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----Mark Frank: "If God exists then I guess you are assuming he designed people to worship him and harmonize with his moral code - that’s why it is good to do those things. OK - let’s take an alternative hypothetical. Suppose God does not exist, but the Devil does exist, and has designed people to perpetrate its ends. When we perform as designed by the Devil in this case would we be doing good?" The devil cannot exist without God, so your scenario is impossible. Even if it were possible, the devil, by definition, does not embody the perfect qualities of truth, goodness, unity, beauty, and being in order to impart those things on his "creation." That means that the principle of design cannot be there so nothing can operate according to that principle. Creatures have the power to create only because they have been given a small part of God's creative power, which includes the gifts of intellect and will. The Devil cannot design or create without those faculties, all of which depend on a creator who will provide them. One of the reasons why a "good" thing is one which operates according to its designs, is because the principle of order and design were put there by a good God. If a good God did not create nature for a good purpose, then there can be no morality or no goodness. In that respect, it is appropriate to worship only a good God, because a bad God is not worthy of worship. Indeed, it is only perfect goodness has any moral right to worship at all. ----"Was this summer’s heatwave in Australia a badly designed heatwave? Or is this a different sense of good?" I don't know if the Australian heat wave was designed that way or whether it was the result of a designed compromised by "the fall." If we live in a moral universe, then everything was originally designed as a stage for soul making and moral development. Neither do I know whether the hot weather, if intended, causes people would worship God, get lazy, take vacations, or come to realize their dependence and pray for help, or a million possible other reasons. As a general rule, creatures tend to be ungrateful for prosperity and good fortune and often credit themselves for the blessings.StephenB
February 19, 2009
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#76 OK. let's see where your logic takes us. You define "good" as "performing as designed". 1) What do you mean when a natural event turns out to be a good thing or bad thing. Was this summer's heatwave in Australia a badly designed heatwave? Or is this a different sense of good? 2) If God exists then I guess you are assuming he designed people to worship him and harmonize with his moral code - that's why it is good to do those things. OK - let's take an alternative hypothetical. Suppose God does not exist, but the Devil does exist, and has designed people to perpetrate its ends. When we perform as designed by the Devil in this case would we be doing good?Mark Frank
February 19, 2009
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----"I think you are confusing two meanings of “good”. A good gas chamber is one that fulfils its function of mass extermination efficiently as it was designed to do. I doubt you would say such a device is morally good." I think that I am not the one who is confused. A good axe, or a good chainsaw, or, for that matter, a good gas chamber can be used for evil purposes or for good purposes. A sharp axe is a good axe; that doesn't change when an axe murderer uses it to kill someone. A good paragraph is one that is well-written. That doesn't mean that well-crafted language can't be used to destroy someone's career. Thus, a "bad" person can use "good" things to commit "evil" deeds.StephenB
February 19, 2009
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-----“Allen MacNeill: “According to this very common logical misconception, this should mean that people who accept the theory of evolution as a plausible explanation for biology should show evidence of “purposelessness” and “immorality”. Generally, they do. If you ask most materialists evolutionists to explain the purpose of their existence, they will draw a blank. Oh, sure, they set goals for themselves, but remember the principle at stake here. The challenge is to set goals that conform to that purpose. If they don’t know what that purpose is, then they can hardly integrate their personal goals with their major goal. Anyone who doesn’t know the purpose of his existence is aimless by definition. In any case, the list you allude to is not really definitive of anything. Some virtues are bought at the expense of other vices. The only way to measure the impact of religion or atheism is to examine the long terms effects on a given culture. A few years ago, Bill Bennett showed that relationship with his famous list of “cultural indicators.” (taking into account multiple vices). Our loss of religion has clearly caused us to deteriorate. Suicide rates are six times what they once were among teens. I have seen plenty of studies that disconfirm your assertions. In the short term, it is very easy to “cook the books” and get the result you want from a state by state survey. When non-religious partisans conduct surveys, wild and crazy things happen to the numbers. In the long term, it is impossible to misunderstand what is happening. If you want to take a meaningful survey, try to find out the religious/non religious perspectives of the Wall Street crooks and Washington politicians that are destroying the country at the moment. I guarantee you that their suicide rates are low, and I doubt very much that most of them take religion seriously. In fact, I am confident that they don’t. ----“those states with the highest rates of religious belief and the lowest rates of belief in the theory of evolution have among the highest crime and suicide rates (and divorce rates) in the United States (the so-called “Bible belt” states)” I question those results for reasons that I just indicated. What I do know for sure is that the irreligious states have higher rates for enabling child molestation. That’s on the record and no survey is needed to confirm it. ----“evolutionary biologists are dramatically less likely to commit suicide and violent crimes (as reflected in their under-representation among prison populations and in suicide statistics).” Your numbers don’t reflect much at all. Weakness manifests itself according to the weakness of the individual. For all I know, evolutionary biologists are too busy committing adultery and destroying the religious faith of their students to run stop lights and shoot people. ----" Most of the evolutionary biologists of my acquaintance are quite clear that no necessary connection between “is” and “ought” statements exists." I am sure that most evolutionary biologists have no rational foundation for any “ought to” statement of any kind. Any concept of morality they can conceive of is totally arbitrary and subjective, a fact that defines the debate as well as anything could. -----“Just clarify things a little, how many people following this thread believe that people who accept the theory of evolution must be immoral (by definition)? Are atheists immoral by definition? Is a belief in a supernatural “intelligent designer” necessary for one to behave in what we would all agree to be a “moral” way?” You are cheating a little bit. I said that Darwinism leads to ‘amorality,’ (by definition,) which it obviously does. The “immorality” comes later. In any case, the clear answer to your question is, “yes.” Without religion, there is no rational justification for morality of any kind. As I said earlier, there are two choices, the natural moral law, and might makes right. Religion provides the former; Darwinism provides the latter. There is no way around it.StephenB
February 19, 2009
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Re #70 Tribune 7 Whether it be the mean God or the loving God I don't see why I ought to worship it (in the moral sense of "ought"). .Mark Frank
February 19, 2009
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#71 StephenB A thing is good if it functions the way it was designed and intended to function. A good can opener is one that opens cans; A good pencil is one that writes. If a pencil tries to become a can opener, not only will it not open the can, it will destroy itself in the process, because it is not operating the way it was designed and intended to operate I think you are confusing two meanings of "good". A good gas chamber is one that fulfils its function of mass extermination efficiently as it was designed to do. I doubt you would say such a device is morally good.Mark Frank
February 19, 2009
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Well gee Mark, I don't think I was going to say any of those things.
I thought your were going to come up with an original angle but I fear it is the same old debate repeated daily all over the internet.
I am not certain what a "new angle" on the issue would be. What is a new angle on the issue of greed, lust, or hubris? Is there supposed to be one? My only comment to your post is that you have nothing to decide what is wrong, your feelings don't matter.Upright BiPed
February 19, 2009
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----Mark Frank: Why ought I worship that God? harmonize with that moral code? function as I was designed? Just show me how it clearly follows. If you were made to worship God, then you ought to do it. If the moral code was made for you, then you ought to submit to it. If you were designed to pursue a desiny, then you ought to pursue it. A thing is good if it functions the way it was designed and intended to function. A good can opener is one that opens cans; A good pencil is one that writes. If a pencil tries to become a can opener, not only will it not open the can, it will destroy itself in the process, because it is not operating the way it was designed and intended to operate. It is the same with humans. If they were designed to worship, follow the natural moral law, then morality consists in doing these things.StephenB
February 19, 2009
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Mark -- Why ought I worship that God? Mark, there are two ways of looking at that: The mean god way -- i.e. he's bigger than you and can do anything he wants to you and there is not a thing you can do about it, sort of like I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream so you better follow every jot and jiggle that he wants you to. The loving God way -- i.e He's bigger than you and can do anything He wants to you but what He wants is for you to be loving like Him and He's granted you to freedom to do this. Now, you are probably wondering how a loving God can send people to Hell. I don't think He does. I think people go there on their own. God says "don't go that way" but he lets people choose and people respond by saying "up yours" and go that way. And Hell, I think, is basically a place where those that end up there get what they most desire -- a place without God. No God, to comfort them in their suffering, to encourage them in their difficulties, to guide them in their dealings with others, I really don't want to go there, but that's not why I worship God. I worship God because He's good and because He loves me.tribune7
February 19, 2009
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