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Deaths From Global Famine Caused by Locking Down World’s Economy Could Dwarf Deaths Caused by Virus

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Even the mouthpiece of the progressive movement (CNN) is waking up to a reality that was always glaringly obvious.

In this story CNN reports on a new UN report:

The world is facing multiple famines of “biblical proportions” in just a matter of months, the UN has said, warning that the coronavirus pandemic will push an additional 130 million people to the brink of starvation . . .

“While dealing with a Covid-19 pandemic, we are also on the brink of a hunger pandemic,” David Beasley told the UN’s security council. “There is also a real danger that more people could potentially die from the economic impact of Covid-19 than from the virus itself.” . . .

When added to the 821 million people already chronically hungry, that scenario would push more than 1 billion people into dire situations. . . .

“These countries may face an excruciating trade-off between saving lives or livelihoods or, in a worst-case scenario, saving people from the coronavirus to have them die from hunger,” the report said. . . . we could be facing multiple famines of biblical proportions within a short few months.

For weeks we have been listening to the “let’s lock everyone down for 18 months crowd.” And when anyone pushes back they have responded with a smug air of moral superiority that they are on the side of life and anyone who disagrees with them is just a money-grubbing bastard.

As I have said before, the response to the virus has never been a discrete choice between saving lives and saving the economy. Burning the world’s economy has a price in lives. Now even the most liberal of liberals are starting to wake up to the fact that the choice has never been so simple. Lives will be lost no matter what we do. The terrible choice we must make is between which policy decision will result in the fewest lives lost.

And if even 20% of those additional 130 million people pushed to the brink of starvation actually go over the brink, the death toll would be 26 million, far more than even the most dire estimates of deaths from the virus.

Comments
SB Welcome back SB !!! Your sound wisdom and intellect has been very helpful to me. Vividvividbleau
April 27, 2020
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Born again, KF, and Barry, thanks for the kind welcome.StephenB
April 27, 2020
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SB, allow me join the chorus of voices welcoming you back to UD. You have been missed.Barry Arrington
April 26, 2020
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I was just wondering the other day where StephenB, with his insightful comment, was. I've missed you. I sure the Darwinists on UD didn't miss you though! :)bornagain77
April 26, 2020
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SB, good to hear, trust you and yours fare well. KF PS: When bad news for a community is good news for you and vice versa, what does that say?kairosfocus
April 26, 2020
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Hello UB, Thanks for the greeting. I am pleased that you continue to ask all the right questions.StephenB
April 26, 2020
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. Hello SB, I hope you and yours are all safe and well. Good to see your name in the comments list.Upright BiPed
April 26, 2020
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Why is everyone ignoring Barry's point? Confronting this virus involves a terrible trade off that cannot be avoided. Knowing that people will die no matter what we do, how do we find the proper balance between placing them at risk of dying from the disease and the risk of dying from a lack of life-sustaining resources, especially from a world-wide perspective. To say that a collapsed economy is acceptable if it "saves even one life" is nothing short of insane. And let's not forget that the leaders of one of America's political parties (symbolized by a donkey) has confessed publicly and proudly that this tragedy provides them with an opportunity to advance their power-seeking agenda. They have made it clear that they would prefer a ruined economy over the reelection of an incumbent president. Why would anyone vote for such evil people?StephenB
April 26, 2020
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Jerry:
Hypothesis – There are natural processes that lead to new protein families. One process is mutations caused by X. X could be anyone of known mutation processes.
Natural as opposed to what? The debate is whether or not those known mutation processes occur by design or are they happenstance?ET
April 26, 2020
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JVL @ 74.
I am trying to understand people I disagree with.
Then why do you evade Upright Biped's questions? If you want to engage and learn, then you should be willing to put your views at risk. If you find that you can't answer his questions (which will be the case BTW), then you really should consider changing your view. I won't hold my breath. Changing views about fundamental things -- even when overwhelming evidence demands it -- is psychologically painful. You are not alone in trying to insulate yourself from that pain.Barry Arrington
April 26, 2020
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Barry Arrington: Doubtless it is frustrating for you to be presented with evidence for design that you cannot refute. That's not it at all. It's the way any evidence disputing ID is treated that I find trying to fight. So I tend not to. Certainly it is not productive when you are asked to defend your position and fail/refuse to do so. True, but when I can see how a particular conversation is going to progress because of having had the experience before is there really a point for going through it all again? None of us are making any really new points are we? We just keep rehashing the same issues over and over and over again with no change in anyone's stance. So, what's the point? Yes, a strategic retreat on your part is called for — until the dust clears and you can once again spew content-free talking points. I won't bother when I know you've already made up your mind. Look, I am not going to say anything you haven't already heard. You already have your counter points locked and loaded. So what's the point of having the same conversation again and again and again? I have asked ET and some other contributors some questions so that I better understand their views NOT so that I can generate a conversation whose direction I can predict. I am trying to understand people I disagree with. I trust that is okay.JVL
April 26, 2020
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JVL
It just seemed to me that pursuing our discussion would end up being more frustrating than productive.
Doubtless it is frustrating for you to be presented with evidence for design that you cannot refute. Certainly it is not productive when you are asked to defend your position and fail/refuse to do so. Yes, a strategic retreat on your part is called for -- until the dust clears and you can once again spew content-free talking points.Barry Arrington
April 26, 2020
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Upright BiPed: I meant no insult or slight. It just seemed to me that pursuing our discussion would end up being more frustrating than productive. If I phrased that in a way you find objectionable then I apologise. But I do not want to waste your time so I figured it would be better if I just bowed out.JVL
April 26, 2020
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How is that a testable hypothesis for unguided evolution?
Hypothesis - There are natural processes that lead to new protein families. One process is mutations caused by X. X could be anyone of known mutation processes. Method - examination of DNA sequences within a genus or family to see DNA sequences leading to proteins. Then examining unique DNA sequence leading to proteins with any non coding sequences in other members of family. Potential Finding - every unique coding sequence in family has non coding DNA sequences In most other family member that are very similar. Conclusion- verification of natural processes leading to new proteins Potential Finding - There were no non coding sequences in family that remotely resemble those of unique coding sequences. Conclusion - there does not exist any pattern of protein evolution in genomes of similar species. Potential Finding - There were some non coding sequences in family that resemble those of unique coding sequences. these are best explained by devolution or lost of coding ability Conclusion - there exist evidence of genome devolution over time. Probably several other potential findings. First finding would lead to Noble prize in Biology. Second finding would never be published. Third maybe but would raise unwanted questionsjerry
April 26, 2020
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Oh, you know, the standard unguided evolutionary model
JVL, biological evolution doesn’t even exist as a process until an entity can specify itself among alternatives and pass that specification from one generation to another. This requirement is the very thing brought on by the system/model under discussion. In other words, you have the cart before the horse. If A requires B for A to exist, then A cannot be the source of B.
which I’m sure I will not be able to defend to your satisfaction
It is rather cheap rhetoric to try to implicate me in your situation here. I have absolutely nothing to do with your inability to defend your conclusions. And please note, you are not merely defending your beliefs badly; you are choosing to not defend them at all. To do so would highlight a contradiction that doesn’t serve your purposes – a very clear contradiction between the person who claims he finds “nothing convincing” and no “hard evidence” of his opponent’s position, versus the guy who wants to quickly “drop it” when confronted with that evidence.
So I’m happy to let it drop if you are.
No one is forcing you to hang out on an ID blog and ignore the physical evidence, that is all on you. If you are asking to be allowed to continue your little passive/aggressive stint here, acting out any and every irrelevant meme ever created to aggravate against the physical evidence of design in biology -- without ever being bothered to respond to it -- then I think your request is preposterous.Upright BiPed
April 26, 2020
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How is that a testable hypothesis for unguided evolution?ET
April 26, 2020
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There aren’t any testable hypotheses for unguided evolution.
Yes there are. We have disagreed in the past on this. But gene studies of similar but separate species with have slightly different protein generating DNA sequences should show if new proteins have developed and how. Similar but inadequate DNA structures should exist in these similar species that do not produce a protein. It could be done all across the board going back in biological history. It is a valid approach and would be conclusive. My guess is that it will show no development of new proteins from mutations in the DNA. In which case it would just be another nail in the coffin. I also suspect that some have tried to do this and failed but it wouldn't make them popular with the evolutionary biology establishment to publish such results. Ann Gauger and I had a brief discussion about this within the last 3 years. She provided some plant studies on just how many different proteins there are in very similar species. This would seem to seal the deal. See https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/do-nylon-eating-bacteria-show-that-new-functional-information-is-easy-to-evolve/jerry
April 26, 2020
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There isn't any unguided evolutionary model. There isn't any scientific theory of unguided evolution. There aren't any testable hypotheses for unguided evolution. All unguided evolution has are liars, bluffers and deniers.ET
April 26, 2020
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ET: I don't think "shit happens" is the unguided evolutionary model but I doubt we'll get very far arguing about it so I'm happy to drop that part of the conversation. What I was going to say about carbon-14 testing had to do with using it to calibrate other dating methods but I guess you've got that covered when you suggest the Earth might have been formed by older bits that came from someplace else. So I won't pursue that. Anyway, I think I'm done now. Thanks for indulging my questions.JVL
April 25, 2020
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Upright BiPed: What model do you conclude best “matches reality” and what details of that model will you be arguing support your conclusion? Oh, you know, the standard unguided evolutionary model which I'm sure I will not be able to defend to your satisfaction (I'm pretty sure you've been down that road many times). So I'm happy to let it drop if you are.JVL
April 25, 2020
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JVL:
Science is a matter of finding models that match reality.
That's part of science. Science still mandates any claims being made also have to be testable.
If you dispute one model then it would be good if you had a better one.
So a model is just some made-up story, then? A better model then one that doesn't exist? Or is there a model on how cosmic collisions can bring about this type of solar system?
Again, what is your better alternative?
A better alternative to what? Your "something happened sometime in the past just because it did" isn't really a model.
You keep not addressing carbon-14 dating. Is it accurate?
I don't care about it. I never brought it up. And yes, if done correctly, it can be accurate.
Yes but if you dispute the accepted model then you have to have an alternative which works better.
"Shit happened" isn't a model.
What’s ;your alternative that has more explanative power?
Intelligent Design has more explanatory power than "shit happened". ID offers the only explanation for life and its diversity. No one uses unguided evolution for anything. It doesn't explain anything because it doesn't have a mechanism that can be tested to see if it is capable.ET
April 25, 2020
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JVL: Tell me what your model is.
I argue for the model successfully predicted by Von Neumann (confirmed by Crick, Brenner, Hoagland, Zamecnik, Nirenberg, et al) and documented in the literature by Pattee, Barbieri, and others. It simultaneously requires a symbol system (i.e. a system of discontinuous association), a language structure (i.e. the onset of spatial orientation to enable multiple referents), a set of non-integrable constraints, and semantic closure in order to begin to function (i.e. persist over time). I am prepared to walk through the details of each of these requirements. What model do you conclude best "matches reality" and what details of that model will you be arguing support your conclusion?Upright BiPed
April 25, 2020
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Upright BiPed: Let’s compare models for the physical conditions required of autonomous open-ended self-replication. Let us see which models “match reality”. That's a pretty big topic. Tell me what your model is.JVL
April 25, 2020
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Upright BiPed: You want to ask a question to decide if its inequitable to pursue questions of others that you are unwilling to have pursued of you. Why does that not surprise me. I'm happy to let ET decide how our conversation progresses. If that's okay with you. If you want to start a separate conversation then be my guest. Just be clear about it instead of playing some rhetorical game.JVL
April 25, 2020
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JVL: Science is a matter of finding models that match reality. If you dispute one model then it would be good if you had a better one.:
Let's compare models for the physical conditions required of autonomous open-ended self-replication. Let us see which models "match reality".Upright BiPed
April 25, 2020
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JVL: How about we let the people I am having a conversation with decide?
You want to ask a question to decide if its inequitable to pursue questions of others that you are unwilling to have pursued of you. Why does that not surprise me.Upright BiPed
April 25, 2020
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ET: Exactly as it was directed to. Directed by whom? What gravity well? There was no mass there ahead of time then? So to you science is whoever has the best story? Really? An alternative narrative to shit happened- and a lot of just-so shit at that? Science is a matter of finding models that match reality. If you dispute one model then it would be good if you had a better one. That isn’t how science is done. If what you are proposing isn’t testable it isn’t science. And what you are proposing isn’t testable. It is all sheer dumb luck. Again, what is your better alternative? You keep not addressing carbon-14 dating. Is it accurate? Do you agree with it being used under certain limitations? Earth to Jim and JVL- Science is NOT done by who has the best narrative. You have to actually be able to test the claims that narrative makes or else it is just another fable. Yes but if you dispute the accepted model then you have to have an alternative which works better. Have you got that? Your side doesn’t have a mechanism capable of producing the diversity of life. Without that yours is just a BS story meant to fool the fools. Fine. What's ;your alternative that has more explanative power?JVL
April 25, 2020
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Jim Thibodeau: JVL you wouldn’t use C14 to date the Earth. The half life of C14 is 5,730 years. To date the Earth you’d want U->Pb ratios. Of course not! But, you can use carbon-14 dating to check one of the other forms of dating for recent dates. It's a matter of cross-checking.JVL
April 25, 2020
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Earth to Jim and JVL- Science is NOT done by who has the best narrative. You have to actually be able to test the claims that narrative makes or else it is just another fable. Your side doesn't have a mechanism capable of producing the diversity of life. Without that yours is just a BS story meant to fool the fools.ET
April 25, 2020
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JVL:
Okay but . . . how did the accretion material arrive at the proto-earth?
Exactly as it was directed to.
If it plunged into the gravity well then it would have a lot of kinetic energy.
What gravity well?
Do you have an alternate narrative?
So to you science is whoever has the best story? Really? An alternative narrative to shit happened- and a lot of just-so shit at that?
Without another viable alternative then the accepted paradigm stays doesn’t it?
That isn't how science is done. If what you are proposing isn't testable it isn't science. And what you are proposing isn't testable. It is all sheer dumb luck.
And what about the carbon-14 dating technique?
What about it?ET
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