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Determinism for Thee but Not for Me

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A professor sums up a lecture on the evolutionary explanation for why religion has been ubiquitous in every human culture:

Professor:  So, in summary, every human culture going back thousands of years has been religious because religion is either itself an adaptive behavior or it is a spandrel, a byproduct of the evolution of some other trait upon which natural selection acted.  Under the first view, religion itself was adaptive, perhaps because it enhances cooperation and cohesion within groups, and group membership in turn provides benefits which can enhance an individual’s chances for survival and reproduction.  Under the second view, perhaps religion evolved as a byproduct of adaptive selection of some other trait, although it is not clear what that other trait might have been.

Student:  Thank you for that explanation professor.  I wonder if I might ask a question.

Professor:  Of course.

Student:  Thank you.  If I understand correctly, the evolutionary process you described is fundamentally deterministic, and religion arose in all human cultures as a result of that purely deterministic process.

Professor:  Yes, that’s correct. 

Student:  But I don’t understand.  As sophisticated modern people, we understand that religious beliefs about supernatural beings and a spirit world and whatnot are false.  Why did evolution select for a false belief? 

Professor:  Excellent question.  Yes, it is true that evolution selected for a false belief in this case.  You see, evolution selects for survival value, not for truth.  Evolution may well select for a totally false belief system if that false belief system confers a survival benefit, and in the case of religion it did exactly that.  Deterministic evolutionary processes in a sense foisted a false belief on the overwhelming majority of humans throughout thousands of years of history because that false belief system made them more fit in the Darwinian sense of that word.

Student:  So we know for a certain fact that deterministic evolutionary forces shape our belief systems.  And we know for a certain fact that any particular belief system may be, to use your word, foisted on us by evolution even if it is false.  This is fascinating.  Until very recently, almost everyone’s most cherished and strongly held beliefs were exactly of the false-belief-foisted-on-them-by-evolution variety.

Professor:  Yes, that is indeed fascinating. 

Student:  It is also deeply troubling.

Professor:  What are you talking about?

Student:  For us moderns, especially the elites like those who teach at and attend this university, scientific materialism has largely supplanted religious belief as the foundation of our outlook on the world. 

Professor:  Yes, that is true, but I have no idea why that would be troubling to you.

Student:  That’s not the troubling part.  What troubles me is that if we know that our modern belief system is caused, like everything else, by purely deterministic forces, how can we know our belief system is not just as false as the religious beliefs we scoff at?  How do we know that evolution has not foisted yet another false belief system on us, in this case scientific materialism, because it is adaptive even though it is false?

Professor:  Let not your heart be troubled.  We can know that scientific materialism is true because we have sound evidentiary reasons for believing it. 

Student:  I don’t understand.  I know Christians who say they have good reasons based on their exhaustive review of the evidence to believe what they believe. 

Professor:  Yes, yes.  But they have deluded themselves.  Their evidence is not as good as the evidence we have that supports science and materialism. 

Student:  I think you missed the point I was making.  You said that our belief systems are the result of purely deterministic processes.  Either that is true or it is not.  If it is true, then evolution forces us to believe in scientific materialism just as it formerly forced theists to believe in religion.  The very essence of determinism is that it does not allow us to choose based on any ground, including an evaluation of the evidence.  And this is what troubles me.  I read one of the Christian philosophers.  He said that if my thoughts are utterly determined by material forces, why should I believe them to be true?  And after listening to your lecture today, I begin to take his point.  Why indeed should we prefer one deterministically caused belief over another?  After all, we say that we know that throughout history, the vast majority of people held a false deterministically caused belief.

Professor:  You aren’t listening to me.  We have good reasons to believe what we do.  Religious bumpkins don’t.

Student:  No, you aren’t listening to me.  Either determinism causes our beliefs or it does not.  By its very nature, determinism is an all-or-nothing proposition.  What gives us the right to say other people’s beliefs are mere evolutionary adaptations but not our own?  Maybe this is why Daniel Dennett called evolution a universal acid.  It dissolves the very mind that purports to believe it.

Comments
there are two types of rats in the world–smart ones and dumb ones.”
I had several courses in psychology and social psychology. Aside: funny story - I once taught at a university and was passing the main biology building. Out back was a truck with a big Purina logo on it. Behind the truck was about 100 sacks that all said “Purina Rat Chow.”jerry
December 12, 2021
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I don’t know if you have kids or not
It didn’t take long. ChuckDarwin makes an irrelevant and inane comment. I never questioned how beliefs are formed. Just that people make assertions not based on anything that is consistent with any evidence. This example is irrelevant to the argument being made. PS - I have kids and had to slap two of them hard not to run out on the street. It worked.jerry
December 12, 2021
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Jerry I don't know if you have kids or not. Assuming you do, what did you do the first time your toddler reached out to touch a burning flame? Did you: 1) let he or she be knowing that an inherited belief would stop your kid at the last second telling him or her "fire is bad"? 2) grab your kid's hand to avoid the flame? 3) or simply let nature run its course and let your kid learn the hard way? In one of my behavioral psych classes, there was a poster in the lab that said, "there are two types of rats in the world--smart ones and dumb ones."chuckdarwin
December 12, 2021
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Natural selection does NOT select at all. Natural selection is a process of ELIMINATION. Too funny that the evos here don't even understand the position they are trying to defend.ET
December 12, 2021
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Mostly, it seems to me, that wars and ethnic cleansings and genocides and racial discrimination come about firstly because one group or another wants to marginalise or even eliminate another group they feel they are in competition with. To make their actions more ‘palatable’ to the fence-sitters they appeal to whatever ideology they think supports their goals. But, I could be wrong.
Probably correct. Tribal loyalty runs deep. Then some figured out that cooperation led to increased resources and was thus, a better strategy so our preferred behaviors changed. But we are far from the OP now which is about superstition vs science and determination by outside forces. I once was going into a church and a young woman passing by that church said church attendance was superstitious. I said to her science supports the beliefs of the people inside and the people criticizing were the superstitious ones. It didn’t proceed any further since I went inside but I could see she was taken about. ChuckDarwin is one here who constantly uses bogus comments to criticize believers when he has zero justification for his own comments. As I said above ironic But human nature runs deep and he’ll be back with more inane claims.jerry
December 12, 2021
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Evolution, i.e., natural selection
A fallacy. Specifically begging the question. Should be
Genetics , i.e., natural selection
Then
What natural selection provides is the neuro-anatomical and physiological apparatus that makes learning and memory possible In simple terms, natural selection provides the capability to learn but not the contents of learning.
In simple terms, more fallacies. Specifically begging the question and Fallacy of Omission and Fallacy of Assertion.
This misunderstanding of evolution derives from Plantinga’s EAAN which is completely naive
Using completely naive and bogus reasoning to call someone else naive Incredibly ironic jerry
December 12, 2021
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One wonders why such are so stoutly objected to…
Your mis-represented characterization of those who disagree with you is duly noted. Nobody objected to these “first duties” as being valuable behaviors for a person to thrive in society. The “objectors” simply disagree with you on the origin of these behaviors.Joe Schooner
December 12, 2021
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Professor: Excellent question. Yes, it is true that evolution selected for a false belief in this case. You see, evolution selects for survival value, not for truth. Evolution may well select for a totally false belief system if that false belief system confers a survival benefit, and in the case of religion it did exactly that.
Evolution, i.e., natural selection, does not select for beliefs. We are not born with a belief that fire can be dangerous (i.e., can cause pain or death), we must learn this belief. All beliefs are learned behaviors acquired in one of three ways, classical conditioning (associative learning), operant conditioning (consequential learning) or observational learning (modeling). "Truths" are simply correct beliefs, beliefs that conform to facts. What natural selection provides is the neuro-anatomical and physiological apparatus that makes learning and memory possible. This is what is inherited. In simple terms, natural selection provides the capability to learn but not the contents of learning. This misunderstanding of evolution derives from Plantinga's EAAN which is completely naive to developmental psychology and social learning theory.chuckdarwin
December 12, 2021
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Seversky and Kairosfocus: Perhaps I'm wrong but I've always kind of thought that ideology rarely comes first when bad things happen; it seems to me it's usually a justification for actions already desired to be taken. For example: I don't think Henry VIII theologically had a problem with Catholicism until he wanted something the RC Church wouldn't condone. I don't think Germany in the 1930s came to the Jewish genocide because of Darwin's theory; there was a clear and long-standing distrust of Jews. In Northern Ireland it's not the religious differences that are the real root of the problem; it's whether or not the region is affiliated with the United Kingdom or Ireland, one of which is Protestant the other is Catholic. Mostly, it seems to me, that wars and ethnic cleansings and genocides and racial discrimination come about firstly because one group or another wants to marginalise or even eliminate another group they feel they are in competition with. To make their actions more 'palatable' to the fence-sitters they appeal to whatever ideology they think supports their goals. But, I could be wrong.JVL
December 12, 2021
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By the way Seversky made a true logical statement. Irrelevant to the OP but true and logical. Aside: isn’t this an old argument? I seem to remember something very similar and the student supposedly a famous future scientist.jerry
December 12, 2021
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Same Old Story The professor had an opinion that was not only speculation but not justified. The student was using evidence and logic. This should attract the usual suspects and verbiage. It has God, religion and Christianity mentioned. Smaug and his minions should be here shortly to challenge the elves. We already have Cicero and duties. Let the rants begin.jerry
December 12, 2021
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BA, any species of determinism is fatally self-referential. I clip as usual:
First, some materialists actually suggest that mind is more or less a delusion, which is instantly self-referentially absurd. For instance, Sir Francis Crick is on record, in his 1994 The Astonishing Hypothesis:
. . . that "You", your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behaviour of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules. As Lewis Carroll's Alice might have phrased: "You're nothing but a pack of neurons." This hypothesis is so alien to the ideas of most people today that it can truly be called astonishing.
The late Philip Johnson has aptly replied that Sir Francis should have therefore been willing to preface his works thusly: "I, Francis Crick, my opinions and my science, and even the thoughts expressed in this book, consist of nothing more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules." Johnson then acidly commented: “[t]he plausibility of materialistic determinism requires that an implicit exception be made for the theorist.” [Reason in the Balance, 1995.] In short, it is at least arguable that self-referential absurdity is the dagger pointing to the heart of evolutionary materialistic models of mind and its origin. For, there is a very good reason we are cautioned about how easily self-referential statements can become self-refuting, like a snake attacking and swallowing itself tail-first. Any human scheme of thought that undermines responsible [thus, morally governed] rational freedom undermines itself fatally. We thus see inadvertent, inherent self-falsification of evolutionary materialism. But, “inadvertent” counts: it can be hard to recognise and acknowledge the logically fatal nature of the result. Of course, that subjective challenge does not change the objective result: self-referential incoherence and irretrievable self-falsification. (An audio clip, here, by William Lane Craig that summarises Plantinga's argument on this in a nutshell, is useful as a quick reference.)
It is time for a fresh start that takes our responsible, rational freedom and the necessary balance, moral government i/l/o branch on which we all must sit first duties seriously. I again point to Cicero:
—Marcus [in de Legibus, introductory remarks,. C1 BC, being Cicero himself]: . . . we shall have to explain the true nature of moral justice, which is congenial and correspondent [36]with the true nature of man [--> we are seeing the root vision of natural law, coeval with our humanity] . . . . With respect to the true principle of justice, many learned men have maintained that it springs from Law. I hardly know if their opinion be not correct, at least, according to their own definition; for . “Law (say they) is the highest reason, implanted in nature, which prescribes those things which ought to be done, and forbids the contrary” . . . . They therefore conceive that the voice of conscience is a law, that moral prudence is a law [--> a key remark] , whose operation is to urge us to good actions, and restrain us from evil ones . . . . According to the Greeks, therefore, the name of law implies an equitable distribution of goods: according to the Romans [--> esp. Cicero, speaking as a leading statesman], an equitable discrimination between good and evil. The true definition of law should, however, include both these characteristics. And this being granted as an almost self–evident proposition, the origin of justice is to be sought in the divine law of eternal and immutable morality. This indeed is the true energy of nature, the very soul and essence of wisdom, the test of virtue and vice.
[--> this points to the wellsprings of reality, the only place where is and ought can be bridged; bridged, through the inherently good utterly wise, maximally great necessary being, the creator God, which adequately answers the Euthyphro dilemma and Hume's guillotine argument surprise on seeing reasoning is-is then suddenly a leap to ought-ought. IS and OUGHT are fused from the root]
This indeed is the true energy of nature, the very soul and essence of wisdom, the test of virtue and vice.
Key first duties:
1st - to truth, 2nd - to right reason, 3rd - to prudence [including warrant], 4th - to sound conscience, 5th - to neighbour; so also, 6th - to fairness and 7th - to justice [ . . .] xth - etc.
One wonders why such are so stoutly objected to even as in objecting we readily see -- rhetorical poses notwithstanding -- that the objectors expect us to implicitly recognise the binding nature of such duties: you haven't proved, those are not facts, you are trying to impose your theocratic Christofascist tyranny, you cannot read my mind/heart, I have no duty to respect justice as a binding moral duty [so, too no duty to respect rights, responsibilities, truthfulness etc that are the building blocks of justice] etc. It is time for sober rethinking. KFkairosfocus
December 12, 2021
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As to: "Professor:,,, You see, evolution selects for survival value, not for truth.,,," And here are a few quotes from leading Darwinists themselves honestly admitting that their worldview of Darwinian Materialism cannot ground truth,
Why Evolutionary Theory Cannot Survive Itself - Nancy Pearcey - March 8, 2015 Excerpt: An example of self-referential absurdity is a theory called evolutionary epistemology, a naturalistic approach that applies evolution to the process of knowing. The theory proposes that the human mind is a product of natural selection. The implication is that the ideas in our minds were selected for their survival value, not for their truth-value. But what if we apply that theory to itself? Then it, too, was selected for survival, not truth — which discredits its own claim to truth. Evolutionary epistemology commits suicide. Astonishingly, many prominent thinkers have embraced the theory without detecting the logical contradiction. Philosopher John Gray writes, “If Darwin’s theory of natural selection is true,… the human mind serves evolutionary success, not truth.” What is the contradiction in that statement? Gray has essentially said, if Darwin’s theory is true, then it “serves evolutionary success, not truth.” In other words, if Darwin’s theory is true, then it is not true. Self-referential absurdity is akin to the well-known liar’s paradox: “This statement is a lie.” If the statement is true, then (as it says) it is not true, but a lie. Another example comes from Francis Crick. In The Astonishing Hypothesis, he writes, “Our highly developed brains, after all, were not evolved under the pressure of discovering scientific truths but only to enable us to be clever enough to survive.” But that means Crick’s own theory is not a “scientific truth.” Applied to itself, the theory commits suicide. Of course, the sheer pressure to survive is likely to produce some correct ideas. A zebra that thinks lions are friendly will not live long. But false ideas may be useful for survival. Evolutionists admit as much: Eric Baum says, “Sometimes you are more likely to survive and propagate if you believe a falsehood than if you believe the truth.” Steven Pinker writes, “Our brains were shaped for fitness, not for truth. Sometimes the truth is adaptive, but sometimes it is not.” The upshot is that survival is no guarantee of truth. If survival is the only standard, we can never know which ideas are true and which are adaptive but false. To make the dilemma even more puzzling, evolutionists tell us that natural selection has produced all sorts of false concepts in the human mind. Many evolutionary materialists maintain that free will is an illusion, consciousness is an illusion, even our sense of self is an illusion — and that all these false ideas were selected for their survival value. So how can we know whether the theory of evolution itself is one of those false ideas? The theory undercuts itself. A few thinkers, to their credit, recognize the problem. Literary critic Leon Wieseltier writes, “If reason is a product of natural selection, then how much confidence can we have in a rational argument for natural selection? … Evolutionary biology cannot invoke the power of reason even as it destroys it.” On a similar note, philosopher Thomas Nagel asks, “Is the [evolutionary] hypothesis really compatible with the continued confidence in reason as a source of knowledge?” His answer is no: “I have to be able to believe … that I follow the rules of logic because they are correct — not merely because I am biologically programmed to do so.” Hence, “insofar as the evolutionary hypothesis itself depends on reason, it would be self-undermining.” - Nancy Pearcey - author of "Finding Truth: 5 Principles for Unmasking Atheism, Secularism, and Other God Substitutes" https://evolutionnews.org/2015/03/why_evolutionar/
And as Professor Nancy Pearcey further explains in this following excellent article, (an article which traced the progression from Darwinism to postmodern pragmatism, which is widely taught in American Universities today and which denies the existence of objective truth), “If all ideas are products of evolution, and thus not really true but only useful for survival, then evolution itself is not true either,,,, In short, naturalistic evolution is self-refuting.”
How Darwinism Dumbs Us Down – Nancy Pearcey Excerpt: One of the leading pragmatists was John Dewey, who had a greater influence on educational theory in America than anyone else in the 20th century. Dewey rejected the idea that there is a transcendent element in human nature, typically defined in terms of mind or soul or spirit, capable of knowing a transcendent truth or moral order. Instead he treated humans as mere organisms adapting to challenges in the environment. In his educational theory, learning is just another form of adaptation–a kind of mental natural selection. Ideas evolve as tools for survival, no different from the evolution of the lion’s teeth or the eagle’s claws. In a famous essay called “The Influence of Darwin on Philosophy,” Dewey said Darwinism leads to a “new logic to apply to mind and morals and life.” In this new evolutionary logic, ideas are not judged by a transcendent standard of Truth, but by how they work in getting us what we want. Ideas do not “reflect reality” but only serve human interests.,,, I once presented this progression from Darwinism to postmodern pragmatism at a Christian college, when a man in the audience raised his hand: “I have only one question. These guys who think all our ideas and beliefs evolved . . . do they think their own ideas evolved?” The audience broke into delighted applause, because of course he had captured the key fallacy of the Darwinian approach to knowledge. If all ideas are products of evolution, and thus not really true but only useful for survival, then evolution itself is not true either–and why should the rest of us pay any attention to it? https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/how-darwinism-dumbs-us-down/
And the primary reason why truth can never be grounded within Darwinian Materialism turns out to be that truth is an abstract property and/or concept of the immaterial mind.
“Truth is immaterial and can be seen using an open mind that voluntarily follows evidence regardless.” – Andrew Fabich – Associate Professor of Microbiology – Truett McConnell University – 2016 https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/andrew-fabich-truth-is-immaterial/
Again, the entire concept of truth is an abstract property and/or concept of the immaterial mind that cannot possibly be reduced to any possible materialistic explanations. i.e. How much does the concept of Truth weigh? Does the concept of Truth weigh more in English or in Chinese? How long is the concept of Truth in millimeters? How fast does the concept of Truth go? Is the concept of Truth faster or slower than the speed of light? Is the concept of Truth positively or negatively charged? Or etc.. etc.. ?.. As John_a_designer explains, “Obviously, these questions are absurd because propositions, (truth claims), are not physical. But if the physical or material is all that exists as the materialist claims, which is by the way a propositional truth claim, how can such a proposition be true? How can something that doesn’t really exist, as the materialist claims, be true? Obviously that is self-refuting.”
“Truth claims are propositional. That is, truth claims are stated in the form of a proposition. But what is a proposition? Where do propositions exist? What do they look like? Where are they located? How much space do they take up? How much do they weigh? How long have they existed? How and where did they originate? Obviously, these questions are absurd because propositions are not physical. But if the physical or material is all that exists as the materialist claims, which is by the way a propositional truth claim, how can such a proposition be true? How can something that doesn’t really exist, as the materialist claims, be true? Obviously that is self-refuting.” – John_a_designer - UD blogger
Under Darwinian materialism, truth, (since it is non-material and/or non-physical in its foundational essence), simply does not exist. For the Darwinian materialist, truth, like the immaterial mind itself, must necessarily be held to be an illusion. Yet here is the rub for Darwinian materialists, science is "suppose" to be about finding truth. Thus it necessarily follows,
1. In order for a worldview to find truth, it must be possible to ground truth within that worldview. 2. Yet, it is impossible to ground immaterial truth within the materialistic framework of Darwinian evolution. 3. Therefore, Darwinian materialism cannot possibly find truth, nor even be true in and of itself.
And as John C Wright succinctly explained, “A statement that there is no truth, if true, is false. We know this truth is basic because without it, no question can be answered, not even the question of whether or not truth is true.”
The Self Evident — A Reminder – John C. Wright – 2019 From time to time it is useful for sane men in an insane world to remind themselves of basic truths. The first truth is that truth is true. A statement that there is no truth, if true, is false. We know this truth is basic because without it, no question can be answered, not even the question of whether or not truth is true. Truth is a subtle and complex topic, but what we mean by the word can be said in a short sentence using words of one syllable: Truth is when one says ‘it is’, and it is as one says. The second conclusion springs immediately from the first. We know that truth is true because to say truth is untrue is illogical. A statement that truth is true is a self-evident statement, hence a true one. A statement that truth is untrue is a self-contradiction, hence false. http://www.scifiwright.com/2019/10/the-self-evident/
Of related interest to all this is the argument for God from truth.
Twenty Arguments For The Existence Of God – Peter Kreeft 11. The Argument from Truth This argument is closely related to the argument from consciousness. It comes mainly from Augustine. 1. Our limited minds can discover eternal truths about being. 2. Truth properly resides in a mind. 3. But the human mind is not eternal. 4. Therefore there must exist an eternal mind in which these truths reside. https://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm#11
Please note that this argument for God from truth fits perfectly within Godel's incompleteness theorem. Namely, the 'eternal' mathematical truths that we discover cannot be grounded within mathematics itself, but 'eternal' mathematical truths are dependent on something else, i.e. the Mind of God, for their 'eternal' existence.
Math Has a Fatal Flaw - (Godel's Incompleteness) - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeQX2HjkcNo
As to the fact that 'eternal mathematical truths' must be grounded within the Mind of God for them to even exist in the first place, it is also interesting to note that one of Jesus' claims that He is the Son of God, i.e. God incarnate, was that He was not merely telling people the truth, but that He is, in fact, the very personal embodiment of truth itself.
“If you were to take Mohammed out of Islam, and Buddha out of Buddhism, and Confucius out of Confucianism you would still have a faith system that was relatively in tact. However, taking Christ out of Christianity sinks the whole faith completely. This is because Jesus centred the faith on himself. He said, “This is what it means to have eternal life: to know God the Father and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent” (John 17:3). “I am the light of the world” (John 8:12). Buddha, before dying, said in effect, “I am still seeking for the truth.” Mohammed said in effect, “I point you to the truth.” Jesus said, “I am the truth.” Jesus claimed to not only give the truth, but to be the very personal embodiment of it.” http://commonground.co.za/?resources=is-jesus-the-only-way-to-god
Verse and video
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Jesus Christ as the correct "Theory of Everything" - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpn2Vu8--eE
bornagain77
December 12, 2021
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Seversky, there have been many worldviews and ideologies throughout history, they cannot have all been right; likely, none are wholly right given our error proneness. Some have led to the bloodiest wars and holocausts and democides of history; two being living memory and one just past that threshold -- that one discredited monarchy and nobility, breaking four major empires and half bankrupting a fifth. Yet, ideologies and worldviews persist. Could it be that ideologies and worldviews -- especially when driven by lawless leaders -- can also serve as Marx's opiates? (In short, your singling out of "Religion" seems unduly biased and selectively hostile. See here on roots of war: https://www.compellingtruth.org/religion-cause-wars.html >>it is a fallacy to say that all faiths contribute equally to religiously motivated violence and warfare. An interesting source of truth on the matter is Philip and Axelrod's three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars, which chronicles some 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature, an astonishingly low 6.98 percent of all wars. However, when one subtracts wars waged in the name of Islam (66), the percentage falls to 3.23 percent.>> It is relevant to note here Q 9 v 5 and 29. ) Further to this, if you were to entertain the more historically anchored political spectrum I have suggested, you would at once see that the pivotal problem is breakdown of the BATNA of lawfulness, leading to lawless oligarchy; it has been documented that unlike the false impression provided by how we are taught about history and wars, over the past 5,000 years only a small fraction of wars have been in the main fought over religion. Ruthless power ambition and outright theft on the grandest scale (piracy writ large) as well as blood feuds writ large, and also oppressed rising up in mostly losing desperation are a far better explanation of the incidence of war. Where, after the printing revolution, rise of widely circulated vernacular books, pamphlets, bills, newspapers . . . especially the Bible . . . the rise of coffee houses as discussion centres, and the wider ferment of the Reformation, by about 1650 - 90, a breakthrough of much wider awareness and ability to participate in public opinion and governance happened. 1688/9 by the Glorious Revolution, we had a first wave of democratisation, then from 1775 on we had the breakthrough to the modern constitutional democracy. Hitherto, the political space could only shift from lawful to lawless oligarchy, with anarchic chaos as a repeller pole and autocracy as what happened when a strong man effected a revolution. Modern representational, lawful, constitutional democracy, with stabilising cultural buttresses [largely tracing to wider impacts of the Christian faith and its built in ethics pivoting on the golden rule] rehabilitated democratic freedom as it had effective means to protect lawfulness. The failure of Athenian Democracy through the Peloponnesian war and linked events, led to discredit of democracy for 2,000 years. They had to build a new civilisation empowered by the printing revolution and wider gospel ethics for such an experiment to be taken up again. As a rule, such democracies don't go to aggressive war with one another, though there have been regrettable breakdowns into civil war, with the 1st US one being perhaps the worst so far. Rising 4th gen civil war 2, now pivoting on the new Reichstag incident, may eclipse that and fatally taint democracy again. Democracies and linked lawful states have also contributed to major civil rights reformations through tamed democratising forces; raw democracy too often becomes mob rule, riot, chaos and an open door to the strong man promising to restore order and safety. Of course, democracies and half democracies -- I here think of C18 - early C20 Britain -- have too often indulged in predatory colonisation. It is time for sober, more balanced, more nuanced rethinking. KFkairosfocus
December 12, 2021
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There have been many religions throughout human history. They weren't all the same. They couldn't all have been right, Perhaps none of them were/are. In some cases, they led to bloody armed conflicts, yet religions persisted. Perhaps they offered some other advantage to societies such as greater social cohesion and resilience in the face of stresses?Seversky
December 12, 2021
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Through history most beliefs are caused and enforced by human leaders, not by physics and neural wiring. You must repeat what the Pope says or you'll be burned. You must repeat what Dear Leader Kim says or you'll be shot. You must repeat what the Professor says if you want to graduate and get a job. You must repeat what Lord Fauci says or you'll be sent to anti-vax concentration camp. Meta-question: This is not a natural survival mechanism, it's a quite open and explicit survival choice imposed PERSONALLY by the top caste in our social systems. Why did evolution lead to this nearly universal mechanism? Why do we make echoing verbal formulas a prerequisite for breathing and eating? Or why was this mechanism designed?polistra
December 11, 2021
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Barry, evolutionists have been trying to dissolve the mind for centuries. It was NEVER about what happened to the trilobite or the dinosaur. Or Neanderthal man. No one goes to the wall for that stuff. It's always been to "prove" that you are no better able to decide about things like, for example, government, than a chimpanzee would be.News
December 11, 2021
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