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Do we need a context to identify a message as the product of an intelligent being?

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In today’s short post, I shall argue that (a) there are at least some messages which we can identify as the product of an intelligent agent, regardless of their linguistic and social context, and (b) there is no context in which it would be reasonable for us to conclude that a message visible to everyone was a hallucination.

What prompted this discussion

In a post titled Signature in the cell?, Professor Edward Feser argued that no message, in and of itself, could warrant the inference that it was the product of an intelligent agent, without a knowledge of the context of the message. Referring to the hypothetical scenario in which a “Made by Yahweh” message was discovered in every human being’s cells, Feser wrote:

If we’re to judge that Yahweh, rather than extraterrestrial pranksters, hallucination, or some other cause, was behind such an event, it is considerations other than the event itself that will justify us in doing so.

The reference to “hallucination, or some other cause” (presumably a natural one) as a possible explanation for the “Made by Yahweh” message in every human being’s cells led me to infer that Feser was acknowledging the legitimacy of a hyper-skeptical stance here – a position for which I criticized him in a subsequent post. Feser wrote a follow-up post in reply, in which he clarified his position:

I neither said nor implied that it would be “perfectly rational” to interpret phrases like the ones in question [e.g. the “Made by Yahweh” message in every cell – VJT] as hallucinations or as something other than a product of intelligence… What I said is that determining what to make of such weird events would crucially depend on epistemic background context, and that if we concluded that God was responsible (as of course we well might), then that epistemic background context would be doing more work in justifying that judgment than the weird events themselves would be.

In a comment attached to a recent post on Professor Feser’s Website, I pressed him to answer two simple questions of mine:

…[A]s an ID theorist, I happen to think it’s absolutely obvious that we can identify some messages as the work of an intelligent designer, regardless of context… From my reading of your [earlier] post, it seemed to me that you were saying that context was essential when drawing the inference that a message was the work of an intelligent agent. I would profoundly disagree.

I’d like to bury the hatchet, so I’ll ask you two questions:

1. Do you agree that if a message saying “Made by _____” were discovered in every human’s cells, it would be irrational to explain away the discovery as a mass hallucination, regardless of whether the message referred to God, Quetzalcoatl, or Steve Jobs as its author?

2. Do you agree that if the message were suitably long and specific (say, 100 characters of perfectly grammatical English with no repetition), it would be irrational not to ascribe the message to an intelligent agent, regardless of the message’s context?

As we’ll see below, Feser’s answer to both questions was “No.”
Feser replied:

…[O]ther readers have already pointed out what is wrong with your questions. Of course context would be relevant to interpreting such messages. Now, I can easily imagine contexts in which it would be extremely unreasonable to say “Oh, this is a hallucination” and I can easily imagine contexts in which it would not be. If we describe various possible contexts in enough detail, we can certainly see how they would make a clear answer possible. That’s why there’s nothing remotely skeptical about what I said. Give us a specific context and sure, we can decide “This suggested interpretation is just indefensible” or “That suggested interpretation is extremely plausible.” But it’s silly to say “Let’s abstract from all context and then ask what the most probable source of the phrase is.” As Mike Flynn pointed out above, there’s no such thing as the most probable source absent all context.

Feser continued:

BTW, Vincent’s attempt to wriggle out of the problem context poses for his position is like certain point-missing attempts to solve the “commonsense knowledge problem” in AI [artificial intelligence – VJT]. As Hubert Dreyfus argues, it makes no sense to think that intelligence can be reduced to a set of explicitly formulated rules and representations, because there are always various context-dependent ways to interpret the rules and representations. To say “Oh, we’ll just put the ‘right’ interpretation into the rules and representations” completely misses the point, since it just adds further rules and representations that are themselves subject to alternative context-dependent interpretations.

Vincent is doing something similar when he tries to come up with these goofy examples of really long messages written in the cell. It completely misses the point, because that’s just further stuff the import of which depends on a larger context. It also completely misses the point to shout “Skepticism!”, just as an AI defender would be completely missing the point if he accused Dreyfus of being a skeptic. There’s nothing skeptical about it. We can know what the context is and thus we can know what the right interpretation is; we just can’t know the right interpretation apart from all context.

What is a context, anyway?

Remarkably, nowhere in his post does Professor Feser attempt to define what he means by a context – a curious omission. So I’m going to go with a standard dictionary definition: “the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.” I should mention that there is another definition for context: “the parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning.” However, in the case under consideration, we are looking at a short isolated message, with nothing preceding or following it. So the questions we need to confront are: do we need to attend to “the circumstances that form the setting” for the purported message, in order to rationally conclude that it is (a) not a collective hallucination we are all having, and (b) from an intelligent source? Feser contends that we do, and I maintain that we do not.

Feser’s absurd epistemic claim: there are some contexts in which hallucination may be a reasonable explanation for the discovery of a purported message in every human’s cells

I’d like to go back to a remark Feser made above:

Of course context would be relevant to interpreting such messages. Now, I can easily imagine contexts in which it would be extremely unreasonable to say “Oh, this is a hallucination” and I can easily imagine contexts in which it would not be.

What Feser is saying here is that there are at least some contexts in which it would not be unreasonable [i.e. it might be reasonable] for us to conclude that a purported message discovered by scientists in every human being’s cells was in fact a hallucination. This, I have to say, is outright nonsense.

In order to see why it’s nonsense, let’s imagine a scenario which is as generous to Professor Feser’s case as it is possible to be. Let’s suppose that a worldwide magnetic storm is playing havoc with people’s brains, causing them to hallucinate. It has been claimed that magnetic stimulation of the brain can trigger religious hallucinations, although the evidence for this claim is very thin. But let’s suppose for argument’s sake that this claim is true. During the magnetic storm, some scientists suddenly announce the discovery of a “Made by Yahweh” message in every human being’s cells. Other scientists around the world rush to confirm the claim. Could they all be seeing things in their laboratories? Could mass hallucination be a rational explanation for this sudden discovery of what appears to be a message in our cells?

No, it couldn’t – unless all the world’s scientists have not only started hallucinating, but lost their ability to reason, as well. But that wasn’t the scenario envisaged by Feser: his assertion that he can imagine at least some contexts where it would not be unreasonable to conclude that a purported message was a hallucination presupposes that the people drawing this conclusion still possess the use of reason, even in these far-fetched contexts.

One obvious way in which scientists could confirm that the message was real – even during a magnetic storm that was playing havoc with their perceptions – would be to use double-blind testing, with a control sample of similar-looking cells (say, synthetic cells, or perhaps cells from another species) that did not contain the “Made by Yahweh” message. (A control sample of synthetic cells might contain no message at all, or alternatively, a different message – “Made by Craig Venter” – might be inserted into the cells.) If testing on different scientists produced consistent results – e.g. if they all reported seeing the same message in the same cells – then the hallucination hypothesis would be decisively ruled out, as an explanation.

Interpretation is not the same thing as decoding: why the commonsense knowledge problem is irrelevant to the Intelligent Design project

In his reply to my questions, Feser alluded to the work of AI researcher Hubert Dreyfus, who in a book titled Mind over Machine (Free Press, 1986) which he co-authored with Stuart Dreyfus, defined the commonsense knowledge problem as “how to store and access all the facts human beings seem to know” (1986, p. 78). As Wikipedia notes, “The problem is considered to be among the hardest in all of AI research because the breadth and detail of commonsense knowledge is enormous.”

As we’ve seen, Feser contends that because the correct interpretation of a rule invariably requires contextual knowledge, any attempt to infer that a purported message is in fact the product of an intelligent agent, apart from all context, is doomed to failure. But what Feser is assuming here is that the identification of a purported message as the work of an intelligent agent requires a correct interpretation of that message. As an Intelligent Design advocate, I disagree: all it requires is the decoding of that message, and it may not even require that. (If the message could be independently shown to be both highly specific and astronomically improbable, I believe it would be rational to infer on these grounds alone that an intelligent agent was most likely responsible for producing the alleged message, even if we had no idea what it was about.) Hence Professor Feser’s assertion that “we just can’t know the right interpretation apart from all context” is beside the point.

Decoding a message is very easy, if it is written in the script of a language we already understand: all we need to do is read each word of the script and confirm that it conforms to the grammatical and spelling rules of the language in question. Depending on the language in question, the code we use when reading the words – something we all learned to do at school – may be either a phonic code (for alphabetic scripts), a syllabic code, a logographic code (for ideograms) or a pictographic code. Even if sentence turns out to be grammatically correct, but semantically nonsensical, like Noam Chomsky’s “Colorless green ideas sleep furiously”, decoding it is still a relatively straightforward affair. And if we found such a message inscribed on the walls of every human cell, we should have no hesitation in concluding that some intelligent agent was responsible, even if we didn’t know who that agent was.

(Note: I should like to make it clear that I do not regard people’s ability to read texts written in their own native language as part of the context of a purported message in that language. Defining “context” in this way would make the term absurdly broad. Rather, I would see the ability to read a language as a presupposition of there being any messages in that language at all. The term “context” refers to circumstances that help us understand the meaning of a message, and does not include the ability to decode a script.)

Decoding a message is harder when it is written in a language we understand, but where the message is encrypted, using a cipher. In such cases, we might think that at least some background knowledge was essential, in order to decode the message. However, there have been occasions when ciphers were reconstructed through the power of pure deduction – for example, the German Lorenz cipher and the Japanese Purple code. Having successfully decoded the message, it would be the very height of irrationality not to ascribe the message to an intelligent agent, even if we knew nothing of the message’s context. For instance, the message might say, “The weather is sunny,” but in spy-talk that might really mean: “The coast is clear: we can proceed with our plan.” But even if we had no idea of the message’s true import, we could still legitimately infer that it originated from an intelligent source, once we had decoded it.

When the message is written in an unknown language, decoding is complicated by the mathematical fact that there’s always some cipher that can be used to transform an unknown message into any string of English characters you want. This point was made by one of my critics, named Scott, who argued: “100 characters of perfectly grammatical English wouldn’t look like any such thing to anyone who didn’t already read English. For that matter, given a hundred of anything, there’s some cipher according to which the series encodes any 100-character string you care to choose.” In practice, successful decoding of scripts in unknown languages, such as Linear A (used in Crete over 3,000 years ago), relies heavily on context-related clues. The question then arises: what should we conclude if astronauts found what appeared to be an inscription in an unknown language on the Moon or Mars? Without a context of any sort, could we still make the inference that the inscription came from an intelligent source?

I believe we can. A simple illustration will suffice. In 2013, two scientists writing in the journal Icarus argued that there were patterns in the genetic code of living organisms that were highly statistically significant, with features indicative of intelligence which were inconsistent with any known natural process. (The authors of the paper, Vladimir I. Cherbak of al-Farabi Kazakh National University of Kazakhstan, and Maxim A. Makukov of the Fesenkov Astrophysical Institute, list several categories of natural processes, and they are clearly familiar with the relevant scientific literature on the subject.) “Simple arrangements of the code reveal an ensemble of arithmetical and ideographical patterns of symbolic language,” they wrote. These features included decimal notation, logical transformation and the abstract symbol zero. Summing up, the authors argued:

In total, not only the signal itself reveals intelligent-like features – strict nucleon equalities, their decimal notation, logical transformation accompanying the equalities, the symbol of zero and semantic symmetries, but the very method of its extraction involved abstract operations – consideration of idealized (free and unmodified) molecules, distinction between their blocks and chains, the activation key, contraction and decomposition of codons. We find that taken together all these aspects point at artificial nature of the patterns.

The authors tentatively concluded that the decimal system in the genetic code “was invented outside the Solar System already several billions (sic) years ago.” (H/t: Max for correction to my wording.)

Regardless of whether the authors’ claims turn out to be true or not – and I’m not holding my breath – the point is that the identification of the signal they claimed to find in our genetic code was made on purely mathematical grounds, apart from all considerations of context. In order to rule out a natural (as opposed to artificial) source for the message, the only thing the authors needed to ascertain was whether it could be accounted for by known natural causes. One could always hypothesize the existence of a natural cause capable of generating these mathematical features, but the authors argue that the only reasonable inference to draw is that the signal they claim to find in the genetic code is an artificial one, generated by an intelligent source.

(I should point out here that our knowledge of what natural processes are capable of generating is not contextual knowledge, but scientific knowledge. As I stated above, the term “context” properly refers to circumstances that help us understand the meaning of a message. Our knowledge of processes occurring in Nature does not help us to do that.)

I conclude, then, that Professor Feser’s contention that the identification of a purported message as the product of an intelligent source cannot be made, apart from all context, is baseless and incorrect. I hope that Professor Feser will be gracious enough to acknowledge this in the future.

Comments
We are all aware that messages are generated within a particular context. The point at issue is whether some knowledge of the context is required in order to recognize that some arrangement of matter and/or energy, in fact, contains a message. I suggest for your consideration-- a message in a bottle. We have no knowledge of the who or what or why or when or where particulars pertaining to the bottle and its contents when was cast a drift. Time and Tide have obscured those particulars from us. It was not likely that it was sent with a particular recipient in mind. What is knowledge of context for the the contained message without some kind of knowledge of these particulars? Yet, if we see a scroll within, we are nearly certain it contains a message even before we open it. When we do open it and retrieve the scroll, we know it contains a message even if the script and tongue are completely unknown to us. Isn't that a message recognized as such without its context (as far as we are aware.) While you may say the bottle itself is the context, I say the bottle is the carrier. Much like a radio wave is the carrier of the FM music I am listening to. I propose that the way we know it contains a message is the particular arrangement of matter is only possible due to the purposeful actions of an intelligent individual. What say ye? StephenSteRusJon
August 9, 2014
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Hi StephenB, I just wanted to thank you for the wonderful job you've been doing in defending my position on this thread. I couldn't have said it better myself. I've been very busy recently, but I'll be back in a few hours to respond to other contributors' thoughtful comments. Stay tuned!vjtorley
August 9, 2014
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So we all seem to be in agreement that any message requires a context. That by the very nature of what it means to be a message, there can be no context-independent message. So would anyone care to address my questions about communication and messaging in contexts where there is no intelligent being as the sender/receiver? As I stated previously, it seems to me that if that is the case, then not only would knowledge of context be required to identify that something is a message, but that on top of that additional context would be needed to identify it as a message originating from an intelligent being. Frankly this all seems so blatantly obvious to me that I wonder if we're not talking past each other.Mung
August 9, 2014
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@Silver Asiatic
Notice — 100 characters. Not 6. What do you think? Would it be irrational to conclude that an intelligent agent was at work, without knowing the context of that string of characters?
Evidently the debate is not just about the different interpretations of "context" but also about different interpretations of "message". In the world of standard logic, the debate about "message by intelligent agent" is dubious because "message by unintelligent agent" is an oxymoron, a contradiction in terms. As soon as we agree that it's a message, we have agreed that there has been an intelligent agent at work. As soon as the skeptic agrees that it is a message in the first place, the debate is essentially over. It doesn't matter what the length of the message is. From here it should be obvious why we have to talk about hallucination, aliens, etc. because given that it is a message, we have to interpret the message, and for interpretation, context is everything. It has been proposed that certain staircase-like formations at the bottom of the Atlantic are remnants of the Atlantean civilization. Both the proponents of the Atlantean theory and the skeptics see the same thing: staircase-like rock formations, non-different from those seen in Egyptian or Mayan pyramids. It's the interpretation which is different. The skeptics deny that it's a staircase in the first place, because as soon as they'd agree that it's a staircase, they would be irreversibly on the same side with the proponents. The same with the message in the cell. No matter how short or long, the skeptics will deny that it's a message in the first place.E.Seigner
August 9, 2014
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RodW #27
In another post I wrote a comment ( that was completely ignored of course) that the word Yahweh does appear in several proteins!
I don't think your comment was ignored because it is impossible to answer. This test measures the probability that a highly-specified pattern in a string of characters will show up. The first example gave a 14 character string. You now shortened the string to 6 characters and then discovered it in proteins. This obviously changes the probabilities. Keep in mind, you eliminated the most difficult part -- the spaces. The reason you give for this shortening of the string is that designers don't use the words "Made by". We might suggest that some artists just sign with an initial. So, if you found the character "Y", do you think anyone would be impressed? But also, many artists use first and last name (Paul Cezanne). Why didn't you suggest that the string of characters should be longer than 14? It would be better for you to answer the question Dr. Torley posed:
2. Do you agree that if the message were suitably long and specific (say, 100 characters of perfectly grammatical English with no repetition), it would be irrational not to ascribe the message to an intelligent agent, regardless of the message’s context?
Notice -- 100 characters. Not 6. What do you think? Would it be irrational to conclude that an intelligent agent was at work, without knowing the context of that string of characters?Silver Asiatic
August 9, 2014
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In philosophy of language, context is everything surrounding the event, process, or entity. Context is understood the same way in logic too. It's not context that needs to be defined, but the direct and indirect causal links of it to the event, process, or entity, as distinguished from irrelevant or apparent links. That some links are always there is an axiom in philosophy of language. In experimental science context is understood differently, because experiment is set up precisely for the purpose to isolate the event, process, or entity from all "noise" (nevermind that the seeming disturbance actually might be relevant context). It should be self-evident that the linguistic, philosophical, or logical definition of context is directly at odds with experimental science. Therefore all your reasoning which tries to reconcile the two or is based on conflating the two does not even apply, Mr. Torley. Based on my own understanding of these things, the project to "detect intelligence" is a sad deviation from basic logic. Intelligence does not lend itself to be studied as an empirical guinea pig. Intelligence cannot be an empirical subject because it is a philosophical subject (as opposed to "object" which is the empirical subject or topic of experimental science). It's a category error of gargantuan magnitude to think that subject and object are somehow interchangeable -- and experimental science has made this error and reflects it in its terminology.E.Seigner
August 9, 2014
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Before you can discuss this question in any meaningful way you first need to elaborate on what forms you think this "Made By Yahweh" message could appear. I doubt you're talking about miniature gold tablets in each cell! First lets note that when artists, engineers or architects sign their work they rarely write "Made by..." its usually just their name: 'Picasso', 'Charles Dickens' etc. so can we look for just "Yahweh"? In another post I wrote a comment ( that was completely ignored of course) that the word Yahweh does appear in several proteins! So how would you evaluate whether this is a genuine signature in the cell (to coin a phrase)RodW
August 8, 2014
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error correction: ...our bodies and the cells that COMPRISE them. Sorry.anthropic
August 8, 2014
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VJ 12 "Although the authors of the paper (shCherbaka and Makukov) put forward three reasons why they prefer directed panspermia as a hypothesis to that of a supernatural Creator, two of these reasons merely reflect the authors’ own personal prejudices about God – first, their claim that religion is all about spirituality, rather than the search for artifacts; and second, their argument that God, if He existed, would not want to compel us to believe in Him..." If you don't mind, I'd like to challenge these two points (the alien hypothesis will have to take care of itself for now). First, all the great monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, believe in a God who not only created the material universe but is deeply interested in it. Genesis 1 tells us that God repeated declared the material universe "good" or even "very good." Jews, Christians, and Muslims all are told to behave in certain ways with their material bodies, and not in other ways. So religion is NOT all about "spirituality", it also includes the material world, including our bodies and the cells which compromise them. Of course, the incarnation, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus also militates against any such notions, too. He ate fish with his disciples and let Thomas touch his wounds just to assure them that he was physical. Many of his miracles involved physical things, such as healing or turning water into wine. Frankly, the idea that God is only interested in spiritual things is more the product of Plato than anything found in the scriptures. Re the notion that God does not wish to compel us to believe in Him, I agree. However, the notion that a signature in the cell would compel people to believe in God, is, well, preposterous. After all, every day we see more evidence & research indicating the incredible complexity & optimization of living systems without churches filling up or mass conversions happening! Bear in mind that Jesus, who knew the hearts of men better than anyone, knew exactly that. He said that even if a man returned to life from the grave, many still would not believe (and he was so right). He performed miracles, as even his enemies conceded, yet they still wished to kill him. Paul the apostle later wrote that much of God can be known from the physical world, yet men deliberately suppress the truth. Would "Made by Yaweh" in every cell convince all, or even most, of unbelievers that the Judeo-Christian God is real? Would it "compel" them to believe? Not a chance!anthropic
August 8, 2014
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Mung
A person reading the Gettysburg Address might be completely ignorant of the referent of “four-score and seven years ago.” They may have no knowledge of when the address was given. But four-score and seven years ago could still be understood to mean 87 years ago, given sufficient context.
I don't understand why that is relevant. One can misunderstand part of a message and still know that it is, indeed, a message.
Your argument is that one does not have to understand what a message is about in order to identify it as a message.
Well, sort of, but not exactly. The context in which a message is situated is related to, but not identical with, ts meaning. In any case, I am taking issue only with (Feser's implied) claim that one must understand the context in which a message was delivered in order to recognize it as a message. Remember, this is one of his main excuses for rejecting ID. If he is right, a design inference cannot be made solely from empirical evidence
I doubt that Feser would disagree.
I think he would disagree. If I understand him correctly, he is saying that the message in a DNA molecule (manifested as a signature) can be detected only if the broader communicative context is understood.
Are you or VJT willing to argue that a message can be identified as a message lacking any context whatsoever? I find the very idea absurd.
I don't think you understand my argument. I agree and have agreed that ALL messages occur in a context. How could they not? The point is that one does not need to identify that context in order to know that a message was delivered. I hearken back to my example of the Gettysburg address. Obviously, it was communicated in a specific context. Still, even if I do not understand the context, even if I misunderstand parts of the message, I will, nevertheless, not fail to know that it was a message and that an intelligent agent was responsible for its transmission.StephenB
August 8, 2014
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The point that Prof. Feser denies is that you can determine that an intelligence was involved at all in that case. Dr. Torley asked him about that and did not receive a reply. If you saw the words "Made by Yaweh" in the cell, is that sufficient evidence to conclude that some intelligence was involved in putting it there? Or is some context required? One option Feser offered was that it was a product of an hallucination. So, apparently, without context one could not determine that the phrase was the product of intelligence. What would it take to reach the conclusion that a highly specified code had to be created by intelligence?Silver Asiatic
August 8, 2014
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Information is always a message. It always communicates something. Perhaps it only communicates to the creator of the information (personal notes), but by its nature, information is message. You do not need context to determine that something is informational. If it could not have been produced randomly or by natural processes, it is information -- and therefore it is a message.Silver Asiatic
August 8, 2014
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StephenB:
Would you need to know about the Civil War, the secession crisis, or the problem of slavery in order to recognize the Gettysburg address as a message?
No, but that's missing the point.
Beginning with the now-iconic phrase "Four score and seven years ago"—referring to the Declaration of Independence, written at the start of the American Revolution in 1776—Lincoln examined the founding principles of the United States in the context of the Civil War,
A person reading the Gettysburg Address might be completely ignorant of the referent of "four-score and seven years ago." They may have no knowledge of when the address was given. But four-score and seven years ago could still be understood to mean 87 years ago, given sufficient context.
The question is whether or not one must always understand that context in order to recognize a message as a message.
Your argument is that one does not have to understand what a message is about in order to identify it as a message. I doubt that Feser would disagree. But that is a separate question to the one I raised, which is what context must be present in order to identify a message as a message? Are you or VJT willing to argue that a message can be identified as a message lacking any context whatsoever? I find the very idea absurd.Mung
August 8, 2014
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SteRusJon @ 18, Thank you. I am prone to all sorts of errors :) I can only aspire to correct any errors that I make. So let me re-phrase my question. Given no knowledge of the context of a message, please describe how such a 'message' can be identified. How can we know that some observed phenomenon is in fact a message? Communication, and messages, by their very nature require context. To recognize a communication, or message, as such, requires a knowledge of context. There is no context-independent communication, the very idea is absurd. It follows that there is no context-independent message. To have knowledge of something (or lack thereof) is to assume context.
you are often argumentative
Hopefully not merely for the sake of being argumentative.Mung
August 8, 2014
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Mung
Please describe, if you can, a message that has no context.
I suspect that VJ would agree that all communicated messages, including a signature in the cell, exist in a context. The question is whether or not one must always understand that context in order to recognize a message as a message. I don't think so.
I believe we need a context to identify a message.
Would you need to know about the Civil War, the secession crisis, or the problem of slavery in order to recognize the Gettysburg address as a message?StephenB
August 8, 2014
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Mung, I am surprised. The phrase "has no context" is not the equivalent of the phrase "without a knowledge of the context." Although you are often argumentative, you are not usually prone to such errors.SteRusJon
August 8, 2014
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Professor Edward Feser argued that no message, in and of itself, could warrant the inference that it was the product of an intelligent agent, without a knowledge of the context of the message.
Please describe, if you can, a message that has no context.Mung
August 8, 2014
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I believe we need a context to identify a message. If that is the case, would it not follow that we need a context to identify a message as the product of an intelligent being? Let's say that animals, and even plants, and yes even cells, communicate. Assume they communicate via messages. Let's say further that that these entities fail to qualify as intelligent. In that case, isn't context even more of a requirement?Mung
August 8, 2014
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Of related interest to Pastor Joe Boot's comment:
“If you have no God, then you have no design plan for the universe. You have no prexisting structure to the universe.,, As the ancient Greeks held, like Democritus and others, the universe is flux. It’s just matter in motion. Now on that basis all you are confronted with is innumerable brute facts that are unrelated pieces of data. They have no meaningful connection to each other because there is no overall structure. There’s no design plan. It’s like my kids do ‘join the dots’ puzzles. It’s just dots, but when you join the dots there is a structure, and a picture emerges. Well, the atheists is without that (final picture). There is no preestablished pattern (to connect the facts given atheism).” Pastor Joe Boot – 13:20 minute mark of the following video Defending the Christian Faith – Pastor Joe Boot – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqE5_ZOAnKo
i.e. The Reductive Materialism that Atheists adhere to does not an overall context to refer to. ,,, Yet, measurement in quantum mechanics is dependent on the context in which you do the experiment(s):
Contextuality is ‘magic ingredient’ for quantum computing – June 11, 2012 Excerpt: Contextuality was first recognized as a feature of quantum theory almost 50 years ago. The theory showed that it was impossible to explain measurements on quantum systems in the same way as classical systems. In the classical world, measurements simply reveal properties that the system had, such as colour, prior to the measurement. In the quantum world, the property that you discover through measurement is not the property that the system actually had prior to the measurement process. What you observe necessarily depends on how you carried out the observation. Imagine turning over a playing card. It will be either a red suit or a black suit – a two-outcome measurement. Now imagine nine playing cards laid out in a grid with three rows and three columns. Quantum mechanics predicts something that seems contradictory – there must be an even number of red cards in every row and an odd number of red cards in every column. Try to draw a grid that obeys these rules and you will find it impossible. It’s because quantum measurements cannot be interpreted as merely revealing a pre-existing property in the same way that flipping a card reveals a red or black suit. Measurement outcomes depend on all the other measurements that are performed – the full context of the experiment. Contextuality means that quantum measurements can not be thought of as simply revealing some pre-existing properties of the system under study. That’s part of the weirdness of quantum mechanics. http://phys.org/news/2014-06-weird-magic-ingredient-quantum.html
And it is by using this 'context dependency' that is inherent to Quantum Mechanics that experiments in Quantum Mechanics were able to be extended to falsify local realism (reductive materialism) of single particles, without even using quantum entanglement to do it,, (i.e. individual particles are not self-sustaining entities but are dependent on a non-local, beyond space and time, cause to explain their existence in space time):
Falsification of Local Realism without using Quantum Entanglement - Anton Zeilinger - video http://vimeo.com/34168474 ‘Quantum Magic’ Without Any ‘Spooky Action at a Distance’ – June 2011 Excerpt: A team of researchers led by Anton Zeilinger at the University of Vienna and the Institute for Quantum Optics and Quantum Information of the Austrian Academy of Sciences used a system which does not allow for entanglement, and still found results which cannot be interpreted classically. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110624111942.htm
Antoine Suarez, has also used the 'context' that is inherent to Quantum Mechanics to falsify local realism:
Free will and nonlocality at detection: Basic principles of quantum physics - Antoine Suarez – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhMrrmlTXl4 What Does Quantum Physics Have to Do with Free Will? - By Antoine Suarez - July 22, 2013 Excerpt: What is more, recent experiments are bringing to light that the experimenter’s free will and consciousness should be considered axioms (founding principles) of standard quantum physics theory. So for instance, in experiments involving “entanglement” (the phenomenon Einstein called “spooky action at a distance”), to conclude that quantum correlations of two particles are nonlocal (i.e. cannot be explained by signals traveling at velocity less than or equal to the speed of light), it is crucial to assume that the experimenter can make free choices, and is not constrained in what orientation he/she sets the measuring devices. To understand these implications it is crucial to be aware that quantum physics is not only a description of the material and visible world around us, but also speaks about non-material influences coming from outside the space-time.,,, https://www.bigquestionsonline.com/content/what-does-quantum-physics-have-do-free-will Quantum Physics and Relativity 1: You can't have one without the other. - Antoine Suarez - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQK37ZfHuzY Quantum Physics and Relativity 2: The visible comes into existence from the invisible. - Antoine Suarez - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxuOE2Bo_i0
bornagain77
August 8, 2014
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Of supplemental note to post 2 & 3:
Multidimensional Genome – Dr. Robert Carter – video (Notes in video description) http://www.metacafe.com/w/8905048 3-D Structure Of Human Genome: Fractal Globule Architecture Packs Two Meters Of DNA Into Each Cell - Oct. 2009 Excerpt: the information density in the nucleus is trillions of times higher than on a computer chip -- while avoiding the knots and tangles that might interfere with the cell's ability to read its own genome. Moreover, the DNA can easily unfold and refold during gene activation, gene repression, and cell replication. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091008142957.htm Tissue-specific spatial organization of genomes - 2004 Excerpt: Using two-dimensional and three-dimensional fluorescence in situ hybridization we have carried out a systematic analysis of the spatial positioning of a subset of mouse chromosomes in several tissues. We show that chromosomes exhibit tissue-specific organization. Chromosomes are distributed tissue-specifically with respect to their position relative to the center of the nucleus and also relative to each other. Subsets of chromosomes form distinct types of spatial clusters in different tissues and the relative distance between chromosome pairs varies among tissues. Consistent with the notion that nonrandom spatial proximity is functionally relevant in determining the outcome of chromosome translocation events, we find a correlation between tissue-specific spatial proximity and tissue-specific translocation prevalence. Conclusion: Our results demonstrate that the spatial organization of genomes is tissue-specific and point to a role for tissue-specific spatial genome organization in the formation of recurrent chromosome arrangements among tissues. http://genomebiology.com/content/5/7/R44 Scientists' 3-D View of Genes-at-Work Is Paradigm Shift in Genetics - Dec. 2009 Excerpt: Highly coordinated chromosomal choreography leads genes and the sequences controlling them, which are often positioned huge distances apart on chromosomes, to these 'hot spots'. Once close together within the same transcription factory, genes get switched on (a process called transcription) at an appropriate level at the right time in a specific cell type. This is the first demonstration that genes encoding proteins with related physiological role visit the same factory. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091215160649.htm Refereed scientific article on DNA argues for irreducible complexity - October 2, 2013 Excerpt: This paper published online this summer is a true mind-blower showing the irreducible organizational complexity (author’s description) of DNA analog and digital information, that genes are not arbitrarily positioned on the chromosome etc.,, ,,,First, the digital information of individual genes (semantics) is dependent on the the intergenic regions (as we know) which is like analog information (syntax). Both types of information are co-dependent and self-referential but you can’t get syntax from semantics. As the authors state, “thus the holistic approach assumes self-referentiality (completeness of the contained information and full consistency of the different codes) as an irreducible organizational complexity of the genetic regulation system of any cell”. In short, the linear DNA sequence contains both types of information. Second, the paper links local DNA structure, to domains, to the overall chromosome configuration as a dynamic system keying off the metabolic signals of the cell. This implies that the position and organization of genes on the chromosome is not arbitrary,,, http://www.christianscientific.org/refereed-scientific-article-on-dna-argues-for-irreducibly-complexity/
bornagain77
August 8, 2014
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Hi Barry, Excellent point. As Charles Babbage correctly observed in his Ninth Bridgewater Treatise, repeated independent observations of a highly abnormal occurrence can render the probability of a hallucination astronomically low, thereby making it an unreasonable hypothesis.vjtorley
August 8, 2014
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Hi Silver Asiatic, I would agree with the broad thrust of your comments. Although the authors of the paper (shCherbaka and Makukov) put forward three reasons why they prefer directed panspermia as a hypothesis to that of a supernatural Creator, two of these reasons merely reflect the authors' own personal prejudices about God - first, their claim that religion is all about spirituality, rather than the search for artifacts; and second, their argument that God, if He existed, would not want to compel us to believe in Him - and the third appeals to parsimony (aliens, say the authors, are a more economical explanation for the signal in our genetic code than God). But I can imagine that a modern scientist who had been influenced by the theological tradition of Newton and Boyle, had he/she been investigating the signal instead of the authors, might well have proceeded instead on the assumption that if God made the first cell, it would be very odd of Him not to leave His calling card in our DNA.vjtorley
August 8, 2014
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Hi Max, Thank you for your comments. I've made a minor correction to my post (h/t to you), to reflect the fact that the authors consider the decimal system in our genetic code to have originated outside our Solar System, billions of years ago. In any case, it was not my aim in this post to argue for the artificial origin of the genetic code; all I was concerned to argue was that the identification of a message from an intelligent source did not require a context. I hadn't seen the FAQ page when I put up the post, but now that I've looked it over, I see that your claim that the signal "was found within the context of directed panspermia" is incorrect. Rather, it was found within the hypothesis of directed panspermia. A hypothesis is not a context. As I explained in my post, the term "context" refers to the actual circumstances surrounding an event. Finally, you write:
Without directed panspermia as a context it is not clear why one could expect a message in the code at all. Therefore, in proper statistical testing involving Bayesian approach the a priori probability is simply zero.
I'm sorry, but this violates one of the most basic rules of Bayesian probability inferences: Cromwell's rule. To quote Wikipedia:
Cromwell's rule, named by statistician Dennis Lindley, states that the use of prior probabilities of 0 or 1 should be avoided, except when applied to statements that are logically true or false... As Lindley puts it, assigning a probability should "leave a little probability for the moon being made of green cheese; it can be as small as 1 in a million, but have it there since otherwise an army of astronauts returning with samples of the said cheese will leave you unmoved."
I would also add that I find it rather odd that you'd be prepared to set the prior probability of directed panspermia to precisely zero.vjtorley
August 8, 2014
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Hi Mark Frank, Thank you for your comments. I'll address your points in order. 1. You write that in the magnetic storm scenario, the ability of scientists to do double-blind experiments is part of the context for the message they discover in every human cell. Here, I think your definition of "context" is far too inclusive, as the mere ability to do these experiments doesn't, in and of itself, help us understand the message discovered by scientists in our cells. I would say instead that the ability to do double-blind experiments is a sine qua non of our concluding that a purported message is (a) real and (b) the product of an intelligence. Think of it this way: if scientists found that they couldn't do double-blind experiments, don't you think alarm bells would go off? And do you think they'd still be reporting their discovery in scientific journals, if they couldn't confirm it properly? I don't think so. 2. You suggest a possible scenario where "the storms create mind-reading abilities which means that double-blind doesn't work." Mind-reading abilities? Pardon me if I'm mistaken, but aren't you a materialist, Mark Frank? I'm surprised that you apparently regard mind-reading as a real possibility. Or do you just mean that it's an epistemic possibility - i.e. that for all we know, it just might be true? 3.You argue that "If you can come up with a set of rules that turns the string into an intelligible English sentence then you have raised the plausibility of the string be produced by an intelligent agent... because the sentence makes sense in that context." But as I explained in my post, even if the sentence didn't make sense (e.g. "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously"), we would still ascribe it to an intelligent source, simply because it was perfectly grammatical. 4. Regarding the shCherbaka and Makukov paper, you argue that "features such as zero and decimal positioning can only be recognised as such by knowing what the physical representation is intended to mean." But as the authors carefully point out in their FAQ, the signal in the genetic code doesn't mean anything in particular: "The only thing the message says for definite is 'This message displays certain semiotic features peculiar to intelligence, so this message is artificial'." The authors explain that their identification of the decimal system is based purely on mathematical and biochemical considerations: "the described patterns in the [genetic] code are revealed not by arbitrary shuffling with amino acid properties... but ... using only nucleon numbers, with the protection key in proline always applied, with arrangements of the code always based on a simple logic, with revealed nucleon equalities always displaying distinctive notation in one and the same numeral system. Doesn't that sound somewhat systematic rather than arbitrary?" Later they add: "all of the nucleon counts that make up those precise balances reveal distinctive notation in one and the same positional numeral system, which happens to be the decimal one." Regarding the zero, the authors write in their FAQ:
In case of the message in the genetic code we deal not with a model description but with the systematization of code elements using certain parameter – the nucleon number of corresponding amino acids. Stop-codons are assigned zero nucleon number as they code no amino acid. There is nothing special at this stage. Then you put [the] Stop-codon into [the] position where zero should sit, i.e. preceding the sequence of numbers, and you find that it neatly fits all symmetries in the ideogram (in fact, there would be no symmetries at all if you place[d] [the] Stop-codon in another position). Now, that is special, as it shows that the symbol of zero (Stop-codon) is physically where it should be as an ordinal number. If the symmetries of the ideogram are produced by some natural process, then that process must be capable of dealing with nothing – the abstract notion represented by zero (indicating the absence of an amino acid in this case). As far as we know, only intelligence is capable of dealing with such abstract things.
Hope that helps.vjtorley
August 8, 2014
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I'd think that the fact we recognize it as a "code" would be enough to analyze the probabilities of it having arisen by chance. I didn't see that directed panspermia brought anything specific to the analysis. For example, the same study could have assumed a divine origin for the code and then looked for statistically significant patterns. Or a researcher could have assumed that "any code must have been designed by some kind of intelligence" and have conducted the analysis in the same way -- looking for evidence of patterns that could not have been generated by stochastic processes. If that's right then I don't see that the conclusions were dependent on a specific context.Silver Asiatic
August 8, 2014
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Without directed panspermia as a context it is not clear why one could expect a message in the code at all. Therefore, in proper statistical testing involving Bayesian approach the a priori probability is simply zero.Max
August 8, 2014
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This is completely wrong, because that signal was found within the context of directed panspermia. You can read about that simply by clicking the link to the authors’ FAQ page which might be found in arXiv version of their paper.
Could you explain how panspermia affected the statistical analysis? It appeared to me that the same mathematical patterns could have been recognized without panspermia as a context. The authors don't seem to point to that either, although I might have missed it in a quick reading. The authors' FAQ: http://gencodesignal.info/faq/#q2Silver Asiatic
August 8, 2014
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It seems to me the issue is not whether “hallucination” can be a hypothesis. Certainly it can. After all, we can assert any hypothesis we like to explain the data, even those that, as this one does, seem absurd. The real issue is what to do when the hypothesis is falsified. Say that researcher 1 discovers the “Made by Yahweh” text on day 1. Someone might explain the data as follows: My hypothesis is that the text is the product of a hallucination. Now we test the hypothesis and find that the text is there on day 2 and day 3 . . . and so on for 20 years. During that time 50,000 separate researchers document identical results. Hallucination is no longer a tenable positon. The hypothesis has been falsified. To dismiss as hallucination an observation repeated by 50,000 researchers over two decades is absurd and self-refuting. As KF says, it would be saying off the epistemic branch upon which we are sitting. Now what? The only viable position now is that the text is real. And the only viable explanation is that some intelligent agent (not necessarily an agent named “Yahweh”) inscribed the text.Barry Arrington
August 8, 2014
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As for the paper by shCherbak & Makukov: identification of the signal they claimed to find in our genetic code was made on purely mathematical grounds, apart from all considerations of context. This is completely wrong, because that signal was found within the context of directed panspermia. You can read about that simply by clicking the link to the authors' FAQ page which might be found in arXiv version of their paper. The authors tentatively concluded that the genetic code “was invented outside the Solar System already several billions (sic) years ago.” Distortion again. Careful reading of the full original sentence reveals that the phrase "was invented outside the Solar System already several billions years ago" concerns not the genetic code, but the decimal system.Max
August 8, 2014
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VJ I have rather given up looking at your posts because they are so absurdly long – but this one is shorter. You won’t be surprised to know I agree with Feser. There are at least some contexts in which it  might be reasonable] for us to conclude that a purported message discovered by scientists in every human being’s cells was in fact a hallucination. I actually think this a poor alternative non-design explanation but it still possible to think of a context.  Assume your magnetic storms and also that we have observed that such storms do regularly cause mass hallucinations (we know this because eventually they pass away and a few people do not suffer from the hallucinations and do things like film what actually happened). Then we are left with the double-blind experiment.  The ability to do that experiment is part of the context. Perhaps there are no facilities for creating synthetic cells, or the storms create mind-reading abilities which means that double-blind doesn’t work.   I don’t get the relevance of decoding. Decoding is just following a set of rules to turn a string from one format to another e.g. Morse code to the English alphabet.  This makes no difference to whether the string is likely to be the result of an intelligent agent or not. If you can come up with a set of rules that turns the string into an intelligible English sentence then you have raised the plausibility of the string be produced by an intelligent agent.  But that is nothing to do with the specific coding – be it the English alphabet, Morse code or the Enigma cipher.  It is because the sentence makes sense in that context.   You refer to the Cherbaka and  Makukov paper. I haven’t time to read it, but features such as  zero and decimal positioning can only be recognised as such by knowing what the physical representation is intended to mean. If I write: 1.0 is the period a decimal point, a paragraph numbering system, the first part of an IP address, a rather unusual emoticon, or just a meaningless set of characters? You can only work out the answer through context.   MarkMark Frank
August 8, 2014
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