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Does information theory support design in nature?

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Eric Holloway argues at Mind Matters that design theorist William Dembski makes a convincing case, using accepted information theory principles relevant to computer science:

When I first began to look into intelligent design (ID) theory while I was considering becoming an atheist, I was struck by Bill Dembski’s claim that ID could be demonstrated mathematically through information theory. A number of authors who were experts in computer science and information theory disagreed with Dembski’s argument. They offered two criticisms: that he did not provide enough details to make the argument coherent and that he was making claims that were at odds with established information theory.

In online discussions, I pressed a number of them, including Jeffrey Shallit, Tom English, Joe Felsenstein, and Joshua Swamidass. I also read a number of their articles. But I have not been able to discover a precise reason why they think Dembski is wrong. Ironically, they actually tend to agree with Dembski when the topic lies within their respective realms of expertise. For example, in his rebuttal Shallit considered an idea which is very similar to the ID concept of “algorithmic specified complexity”. The critics tended to pounce when addressing Dembski’s claims outside their realms of expertise.

To better understand intelligent design’s relationship to information theory and thus get to the root of the controversy, I spent two and a half years studying information theory and associated topics during PhD studies with one of Dembski’s co-authors, Robert Marks. I expected to get some clarity on the theorems that would contradict Dembski’s argument. Instead, I found the opposite.

Intelligent design theory is sometimes said to lack any practical application. One straightforward application is that, because intelligence can create information and computation cannot, human interaction will improve computational performance.
More.

Also: at Mind Matters:

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Facebook’s old motto was “Move fast and break things.” With the current advertising scandal, it might be breaking itself A tech consultant sums up the problem, “Sadly Facebook didn’t realize is that moving fast can break things…”

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The $60 billion-dollar medical data market is coming under scrutiny As a patient, you do not own the data and are not as anonymous as you think. Data management companies can come to know a great deal about you; they just don’t know your name—unless, of course, there is a breach of some kind. Time Magazine reported in 2017 that “Researchers have already re-identified people from anonymized profiles from hospital exit records, lists of Netflix customers, AOL online searchers, even GPS data of New York City taxi rides.” One would expect detailed medical data to be even more revelatory.

George Gilder explains what’s wrong with “Google Marxism”
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Do we just imagine design in nature? Or is seeing design fundamental to discovering and using nature’s secrets? Michael Egnor reflects on the way in which the 2018 Nobel Prize in Chemistry has so often gone to those who intuit or impose desire or seek the purpose of things

Comments
Upright BiPed:
During translation, the codon-to-anticodon association is chemically independent of anticodon-to-amino acid association. This is the observed fact of the matter.
And in fact it must be that way. Does information theory shed any light on why it must be that way? I suspect that it may.Mung
November 7, 2018
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@Mung, I would say a probability distribution counts how many options are available. Say we have a bag with 1 green marble and 1 red marble. The probability of drawing a red marble is 1/2, which is 1 divided by the number of options. If there are 2 green marbles and 1 red marble, then the probability of drawing red becomes 1/3, which is still 1 divided by the number of options. However, the probability for drawing a green marble is 2/3. Where did the 2 come from? Doesn't that contradict 1 divided by number of options? It is because we group and add all the 1/3s for the green marbles, so still consistent with counting the number of options. What do you think?EricMH
November 7, 2018
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Earth to Antonin- If you think the mapping of amino acids to codons is all about chemistry then by all means make your case or shut up. Or do you really think that your snark remarks are an actual argument?ET
November 7, 2018
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UB, facts are stubborn things, but if someone is determined not to acknowledge them, he will not yield to mere facts. Recall, above I took time to point out above that the anticodon and the universal joint CCA- tool tip that holds the AA on a tRNA are at opposite ends of the folded tRNA. That alone should be a big clue, as the chemistry to bond any given AA to a tRNA is the same and the anti-codon is not right there to have an effect. KFkairosfocus
November 7, 2018
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During translation, the codon-to-anticodon association is chemically independent of anticodon-to-amino acid association. This is the observed fact of the matter. I think we all now see that such facts do not interest you, and that you will not respond to them, but they remain just the same.Upright BiPed
November 7, 2018
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The mapping of AAs to codons is symbolic. It has nothing to do with chemistry.
Nothing to do with chemistry? Good grief! This is where taking analogies to extremes gets you. I beg you, gpuccio, turn back from the dark side.Antonin
November 7, 2018
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I would never pass that request to Joe Felsestein. I never force people to answer my points. Does that “suggest I agree with you that I haven’t really got much of an argument”? Just to know.
Yes as a matter of fact. And giving someone a heads-up is hardly applying force. I thought you were interested in Felsenstein's thoughts on your thief scenario.Antonin
November 7, 2018
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PS: Nonlin, cell based life is a decisive test case on inferring design on well known, readily accessible evidence. What we see above is that in cases, objectors are willing to dismiss the reality and significance of the genetic code. Codes, here, being expressions of language used cybernetically through molecular nanotechnology. That then points to the root problem, not the facts or the actual strength of the case but ideological domination. It is much like saying music and singing are not real because there is just physics of vibrations and waves there; refusing to acknowledge that the physical supports higher level interactions that manifest mind at work -- in a sense, the crudest materialism much like saying there is no mind as brain cells and electrochemistry are at work in a network. But in the end, the sheer force of the case will prevail. Notwithstanding, if the import of the cell using coded algorithmic information with start, stepwise procedure and halting is brushed aside, things like fine tuning will be and even moreso, abstract general discussions on design inferences and on algorithmic compressibility. All of this is a sad indictment of our self-destructive, dying civilisation.kairosfocus
November 7, 2018
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Nonlin, yes, there is in info theory something called the entropy of a source, which boils down to the weighted average information per symbol; as I summarised above. What it means and how that is tied to the mathematically similar value in statistical thermodynamics is NOT a trivial exercise. There is indeed a connexion (albeit still contended against), as I pointed out above; discussed in Sec A as is linked through my handle. In a nutshell, the statistical thermodynamic entropy can be seen as average missing information to specify the particular microstate of an entity, given that its macro-level state has been characterised by a suitable set of lab scale state variables such as P, V, T etc. This is because there are as a rule a great many possible microscopic configurations associated with such a macrostate. The value can be quantified based on some description language and string of Y/N q's, up to a suitable constant of proportionality. This last is where for instance, Boltzmann's k plays such a role in his classic work. Much of the underlying work was done by Jaynes et al, and I point to and cite Harry Robertson's summary in my linked. KFkairosfocus
November 7, 2018
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Antonin, with all respect, it seems your quarrel is with Crick et al (and the Nobel Prize Committee), not merely UD. That has been repeatedly pointed out to you, there is a reason that a genetic code has been identified and is now routinely used. What you have managed to do is to inadvertently show the strength of the point by your rhetorical device of repeating a long since corrected error as though it deflects the force of the point. KFkairosfocus
November 7, 2018
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Nonlin.org: You are really unbearable. Of course there are some patterns in language that can be, sometimes, recognized even if we don't understand the language. That will be enough to infer design sometimes, other times it will not. But of course, if we understand the meaning, the design inference is immensely easier and stronger. That does not depend on patterns or order. I am tired of your false reasonings. Really, if you have no ability to reason correctly, you should stop wasting the time of others.gpuccio
November 6, 2018
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EugeneS @370 You say: "It should not be a surprise to you that the two notions, thermodynamic entropy and information entropy, are closely related and, broadly speaking, are the same thing." And your claim was "[entropy has] Nothing to do with data." Your claim is wrong as shown here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(information_theory) "the entropy of a fair coin toss is 1 bit, and the entropy of m tosses is m bits". Obviously, by tossing coins we generate Data, but not Information. If you insist otherwise, explain what information you get from coin tossing all day long.Nonlin.org
November 6, 2018
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Antonin on protein synthesis:
It's all chemistry.
Except for the genetic code which isn't all chemistry.ET
November 6, 2018
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KF @318 What about "cell based life"? The topic is Design. Much broader. Wow! 400+ comments for something as clear and simple as Design? This is getting ridiculous.Nonlin.org
November 6, 2018
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gpuccio @313, You say: "Nonlin says that my arguments are unconvincing. Facing such strict counter-logic, I will certainly have to change my mind." Much more than "unconvincing". Proven wrong. As the sage said: "Of course, if I am a smart chinese. I could perhaps make a design inference for the sonnet just the same, because we know that some linguistic patterns can be recognized even if we don’t understand the meaning."Nonlin.org
November 6, 2018
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Antonin: I would never pass that request to Joe Felsestein. I never force people to answer my points. Does that "suggest I agree with you that I haven't really got much of an argument"? Just to know.gpuccio
November 6, 2018
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Antonin: The mapping of AAs to codons is symbolic. It has nothing to do with chemistry.gpuccio
November 6, 2018
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Upright Biped:
Your claim that there is ‘no language in protein synthesis’ may serve a rhetorical purpose...
It's a simple statement of fact. It's all chemistry.Antonin
November 6, 2018
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Mung
Antonin: What are the chances of you passing on Gpuccio’s request that Joe Felsenstein take a look at his “thief” scenario?
Zero. Is that binary enough for you?
Does sort of suggest you agree with me that gpuccio hasn't really got much of an argument. I've been reading The Skeptical Zone recently. You seem to be a different person there.
Attraction/repulsion between molecules is not binary.
Neither is the fit between a key and a lock. You obviously know nothing about auto theft.
Very droll.Antonin
November 6, 2018
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Add to be agreeing with Schneider about anything. :)Mung
November 6, 2018
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EricMH:
@Mung what is a probability distribution?
I give up. A distribution of probabilities? :) I seem to recall reading something about how a probability distribution is defined, I'll see if i can find it.Mung
November 6, 2018
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ET, Information is not thermodynamic entropy but for cause there is an informational school of thought, see Sec A in my linked through my handle. Entropy measures the avg missing info to specify particular microstate given macro-level state. Note: a great many microstates will be compatible with a given macrostate. This ties the two domains together. KFkairosfocus
November 6, 2018
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@ET, great article!EricMH
November 6, 2018
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jawa: "Certain analogy between OOP and biological systems is obvious to any open-minded observer." Of course. Biological programs are, in most cases, object oriented.gpuccio
November 6, 2018
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ET: OK, I had my good laugh! :) Of course, a symbolic code is a mapping that is arbitrary, and does not depend in any way on necessity laws. Both spectral bands and tree rings are clear examples of patterns generated by necessity laws. There is no arbitrary mapping in them. Thefore, they are in no way symbolic codes. There exists no necessity law that can encode information about protein sequences into nucleotide sequences by the symbolic genetic code.gpuccio
November 6, 2018
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ET @419: For example, OOP in software development is common design. Certain analogy between OOP and biological systems is obvious to any open-minded observer.jawa
November 6, 2018
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KF @422, Clear explanation. Thanks.jawa
November 6, 2018
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The following may be helpful- Information Is Not Entropy, Information Is Not Uncertainty!: "Information is always a measure of the decrease of uncertainty at a receiver (or molecular machine)."ET
November 6, 2018
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Mung, if a certain "symbol" MUST be transmitted [= no contingency], there is no information. If there are several or many possibilities [high contingency], learning that say option_j of n happened is informational. Source entropy as Connor notes, is avg info per symbol. Just to be clear, 2 options, equiprobable is 1 bit per symbol. 20 equiprobable options gives 4.32 bits per symbol. Real codes are never exactly equiprobable, and those that are more likely are less informational than those that are less likely. Consider English text has e perhaps 1/8 of the time, but x is far less likely in typical text (Algebra books need not apply). KFkairosfocus
November 6, 2018
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@Mung what is a probability distribution?EricMH
November 6, 2018
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1 4 5 6 7 8 20

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