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Eric Harris Was Just Paying Attention

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Thank you to all of the materialists (and there were several) who rose to the challenge of my last post [Materialists: [crickets]]. We will continue the discussion we began there in this thread.

Before I continue, please allow me to clear up some confusion. Several of my interlocutors seem to believe that the purpose of my post is to refute metaphysical naturalism. (See here for instance) It is not. Please look again at the very first line of the paragraph I quoted: “Let us assume for the sake of argument that metaphysical naturalism is a true account of reality.”

Please read that line again carefully. I am NOT arguing that metaphysical naturalism is false (though I believe it is; that is an argument for another day). I simply wish to explore the logical consequences of whole-heartedly embracing metaphysical naturalism. I thought this was clear, but apparently it was not, so I will repeat my argument step by step:

Step 1: What metaphysical naturalism asserts

Metaphysical naturalism asserts that nothing exists but matter, space and energy, and therefore every phenomenon is merely the product of particles in motion.

Step 2: Consequences of naturalism vis-à-vis, the “big questions”

Certain consequences with respect to God, ethics and meaning follow inexorably if metaphysical naturalism is a true account of reality. Perhaps Will Provine summed these up best:

1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent.

Evolution: Free Will and Punishment and Meaning in Life, Second Annual Darwin Day Celebration Keynote Address, University of Tennessee, Knoxville, February 12, 1998 (abstract)

Dawkins agrees:

The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

Richard Dawkins, River out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life, 133.

Step 3: Why Not Act Accordingly?

What if a person were able to act based on a clear-eyed and unsentimental understanding of the consequences outlined above? If that person had the courage not to be overwhelmed by the utter meaningless of existence, he would be transformed. He would be bold, self-confident, assertive, uninhibited, and unrestrained. He would consider empathy to be nothing but weak-kneed sentimentality. To him others would not be ends; they would be objects to be exploited for his own gratification. He would not mind being called cruel, because he would know that “cruelty” is an empty category, the product of mere sentiment. Is the lion being cruel to the gazelle? No, he is merely doing what lions naturally do to gazelles.

In my original argument I suggested this person would be a psychopath. That is not quite accurate. A psychopath, by definition, lacks empathy. Our Übermensch, however, might well have the capacity for empathy which he suppresses. It is more accurate, therefore, to say that the actions of the person who acts based on a clear-eyed and unsentimental acceptance of naturalism would be indistinguishable from the actions of a psychopath.

Step 4:

Finally, I raised the issue I would like to explore:

Why should our Übermensch refrain from hurting other people to achieve his selfish desires.

Mark Frank takes a stab at answering the question:

Do you mean “why should I?” in the sense of why is it right for me to do it? If so, that is tautology, of course it is right to do what is right.

Or do you mean “why should I” in the sense of “what is there in it for me?” In this case the pay-offs include:

* The intense satisfaction of having done the right thing.
* The congratulations of those that will approve of your action
* The firm example you will set for others to treat you the same way
* If done repeatedly an excellent basis for persuading others to do what you think it is right for them to do etc…

Thank you Mark. I believe your answer is about as good an answer as a naturalist can give. Let’s explore it and find out why it is wholly unsatisfactory as a logical matter.

Do you mean ‘why should I?’ in the sense of why is it right for me to do it? If so, that is tautology, of course it is right to do what is right.

Readers, notice the equivocation at the base of Mark’s argument. It is always “right” to do what is “right” is indeed a tautology if the word “right” is used in the same sense in both instances. But it is not. Remember, Mark is a metaphysical naturalist. The word “right” has no objective meaning for the metaphysical naturalist. It is purely subjective. For the metaphysical naturalist the good is the desirable and the desirable is that which he actually desires. In other words, Mark has no warrant to use the word “right” as if it had an objective meaning. Yet that is exactly what he does.

To see this, let us re-write Mark’s sentence using different words for the two senses of the word “right” that he uses: “of course, it is right [i.e., it conforms to a code of objective morality] to do what is right [i.e., that which I subjectively prefer].” Written this way, amplifying the inconsistent ways in which Mark uses the word “right,” exposes the fallacy.

Now let us turn to the second part of Mark’s argument. “What’s in it for me?” I want to thank Mark for unintentionally making my point for me. He says our Übermensch might refrain from hurting another person in order to achieve his selfish ends because he has engaged in a cost/benefit analysis. Mark points to certain “benefits” of refraining from hurting another person to achieve selfish ends. Presumably, the point of Mark’s argument is that “what’s in it for me” (i.e., the benefits received from not hurting the other person) outweighs the cost (failing to achieve a selfish end).

But of course Mark’s argument fails, because the benefits he suggests may not outweigh the cost. It depends on what selfish end the Übermensch wishes to achieve and how badly he wants it. Indeed, some of the so-called benefits are not really benefits at all to our Übermensch. Consider the first one: the intense satisfaction of having done the right thing. Here again Mark is employing a concept he has no right to employ. Our Übermensch understands that “the right thing” is a meaningless concept. Why should our Übermensch feel satisfaction at having conformed his behavior to a non-existent standard? That is the whole point of the exercise after all. Once we understand that there really is no such thing as “the right thing” why should we not do exactly as we please even if it hurts another person? Mark has no answer, because there is no answer.

Eric Harris was paying attention when someone taught him Nietzsche. He believed he was an Übermensch. He believed he was a lion and the other students at his school gazelles. On what grounds can a metaphysical naturalist say “Eric Harris was wrong”? Is it not true that the most a metaphysical naturalist can say is “I personally disagree with what he did and would not do it myself”?

A final note:
Many of the comments at the other thread concerned whether “objective morality” exists. I believe that it does, and those comments are very interesting. However, whether objective morality exists has no application in this thread. Again, the question I want to explore in this thread is “Why shouldn’t a metaphysical naturalist do exactly what he pleases even if it hurts another person?”

Comments
Jlowder @ 14. Yes, the paper you cite purports to be able to derive an “ought” from an “is.” It fails to do so, because the very notion is absurd as we have known since at least Hume. The author’s argument rests on his claim that naturalist ethics are objective because certain ethical norms are “brute facts.” That’s it folks. It is embarrassing. I am by extension embarrassed for jlowder when he calls it an “outstanding essay.’ Barry Arrington
July 17, 2014
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RDFish
There is nothing else (subjective intuition) for us to judge by, since even the choice to adopt some particular religious morality is a subjective decision. And I doubt you believe that if I saw someone torturing a puppy I would be wrong to intervene. That means I am right to intervene based upon my subjective moral intuitions.
I also means that the torturer is right to kill you for intervening if his subjective intuition prompts him to do so.StephenB
July 17, 2014
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You write: Step 1: What metaphysical naturalism asserts Metaphysical naturalism asserts that nothing exists but matter, space and energy, and therefore every phenomenon is merely the product of particles in motion. There are many versions of metaphysical naturalism. The version you cite seems to be very popular with naturalists who happen to be scientists. There is another version which is much more popular among metaphysical naturalists who have a philosophical background. This other version, which is defended extensively here, does not claim that nature (or "matter, space, and energy") is all there is. This version of naturalism is compatible with the existence of abstract objects. Nevertheless, both versions of naturalism have in common the idea that "nature is a closed system," in the sense that nothing that is neither a part nor a product of the universe may affect the universe. Why does this matter? Because it undermines your other steps. This other version of naturalism, call it "modest metaphysical naturalism" if you like, does not claim, entail, or "imply" that "no ultimate foundation for ethics exists." For a detailed essay defending a nontheistic foundation for ethics, see this outstanding essay by philosopher Erik Wielenberg.jlowder
July 17, 2014
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I've re-read my post here. You claim that I interpret your last post as an attempt to "refute metaphysical naturalism." I'm not sure why you think that. Perhaps my use of the phrase "objection to naturalism" is what gave you that impression? But that phrase is also consistent with the idea that naturalism has undesirable implications. (If naturalism has undesirable implications, that would be an important objection to naturalism, albeit not an objection to its truth.) In any case, I deny that I ever claimed your purpose was to refute metaphysical naturalism. And the point in my post stands: you made a very weak argument from silence by concluding that the best explanation for the silence of naturalists was their inability to provide an answer. Furthermore, if you read the comments on that post, I'll think you'll find several objections which are worth consideration.jlowder
July 17, 2014
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Barry, as I asked in the last thread, could you give us your version ? What do you think enables us to act morally ?Graham2
July 17, 2014
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Hi William J Murray, If you'd like to respond to my last arguments to you in the previous thread, I'd like to hear it. If instead you'd like to (as Barry would say) dodge the issues, I would understand completely. Cheers, RDFish/AIGuyRDFish
July 17, 2014
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Hi Phinehas,
RDF does indeed seem to be saying that he is authorized to judge others and intervene in their behavior based on a personal subjective intuition about a subjective state. (Please correct me if this is not the case.)
Close: I am right (morally compelled) to intervene in others' behavior based on my subjective moral intuitions.
Everything moral in me screams out that judging others and intervening in their behavior based solely on personal subjective intuition is wrong, wrong, wrong!
There is nothing else for us to judge by, since even the choice to adopt some particular religious morality is a subjective decision. And I doubt you believe that if I saw someone torturing a puppy I would be wrong to intervene. That means I am right to intervene based upon my subjective moral intuitions.
Everything I believe about liberty, personal freedom, self-expression, and self-actualization tells me that it is morally repugnant to judge another or intervene in their behavior based solely on personal subjective intuition.
However, you do it all the time. If you can't recite, off-hand, the chapter and verse of a clear Biblical prohibition against selling one's loyal pet dog for unnecessary, useless, and tortuous medical research just for some quick cash, does that mean you think that is moral? On what basis do you make that decision?
Why do you think that personal subjective intuition gives you this authority?
It's not just authority, it is an obligation. And it's not just me, it's everybody.
Do you have any warrant for holding this position? What is it about personal subjective intuition that could rationally authorize one to judge another to the point of intervening in their behavior? What argument would you put forward to support the notion that personal subjective intuitions out to have a privileged status above mere opinion or preference, or, in fact, that they ought not be seen as the same thing?
My warrant is my understanding of moral theory, which tells me that in order to act morally, one must act in accord with one's abiding moral intuitions. These moral intuitions are not arbitrary, and they are not voluntary, and they are not preferences or opinions, and they are not superficial. I would hope that a moment's introspection would reveal to you that while you may one day prefer apple pie and the next day prefer cherry, you will never change your mind about the morality of torturing puppies for fun. Cheers, RDFish/AIGuyRDFish
July 17, 2014
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“Why shouldn’t a metaphysical naturalist do exactly what he pleases even if it hurts another person?” Because: 1. She might lose a friend. 2. She might lose a lover. 3. She might be liable to criminal or civil prosecution. 4. She might value the dignity of another person more than her own desires. 5. She might be ostracized from her family or community. Etcetera, etcetera...Daniel King
July 17, 2014
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LarTanner wrote:
I was under the impression that you folks believe materialists have no way of determining the “good” — highest, lowest, or in between. Is it now your contention that materialists can assess certain values as good, and rank them?
Exactly. Apparently materialists do. Notice what Tim wrote:
Finally, I had to laugh at the person in the last strand who claimed that if he found himself in a world where killing puppies was not cruel, he would intuitively still think it cruel. On what basis? Genetic mutation?
So, do you think killing puppies is cruel? -QQuerius
July 17, 2014
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Barry, I almost waxed poetic at the beginning of the last post, but thought it would be a stretch to use both bovine and ovine to complete the rhyme scheme. Now that you have mentioned Will Provine's logical conclusions, dark clouds move on, the lawnmower is put away and the crickets warm up again. I understand it was not your sole purpose to remind the MN's of their man Provine, but to extend some of his ethical conclusions to Eric Harris. What can the MN's do but come together and say, "'we' disagree and would not behave that way." Without vocabulary like "evil", the MN is left writing convoluted volumes that don't quite get to the nub of the issue. But vocabulary that a three-year-old could understand explains it easily: "Thou shalt not . . ." and the child says. . . "the evil man killed those people." I am not saying that our sainted MN's don't understand or "have" words like "evil", but that their denotations of such words lack meaning when being consistently MN. you don't have to take my word for it, in fact you don't even have to reference me 'cause I'm just repeating what Provine said. I would like to add one note concerning empathy. After MN, it is reasonable to say that empathy, like altruism, isn't in a shared vocabulary either. For empathy, dictionary definitions describe the ability to understand others' feelings without access to objective access to those feelings. But in our common vocabulary their is often a connotation of that understanding affecting us toward other-centered behaviors. Two dictionary examples from merriem-webster online "empathy with the poor" and "empathy toward convicts" lead us to believe that there may be some action we might take on their behalf. There was no mention of "Following his days in Monte Carlo, he felt empathy toward the super-rich" Why? Because we don't as easily associate the super-rich with those whose needs might only be met through our intervention. All to say that if we are only a collection of our genes, and they are programmed in their self-interest, i.e. survival (it can be no other way), all selflessness is illusion, masking genetic "desires". When the MN says, hey, hold the fort, we are nice too, all I can say is from whence do you get that altruism? Finally, I had to laugh at the person in the last strand who claimed that if he found himself in a world where killing puppies was not cruel, he would intuitively still think it cruel. On what basis? Genetic mutation?Tim
July 17, 2014
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Graham2: The question is not about how everybody acts. Rather, the question is: Given that everybody acts as though they have warrant for restricting or otherwise intervening in another's behavior, can materialism support such a warrant?Phinehas
July 17, 2014
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Barry, [SNIP] everybody, believers/heathens alike, act according to their conscience. Geez, why do you people waste so much time on this nonsense ? Dont you have a life ?Graham2
July 17, 2014
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It IS right to do what is right. That is, it is correct to do what is good. And incorrect to do what is evil. Must be a "God Particle" thing.ppolish
July 17, 2014
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Under naturalism, whatever anyone feels is morally good, is morally good. QED.William J Murray
July 17, 2014
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Should read: ...subjective intuitions ought to have a privileged status...Phinehas
July 17, 2014
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Continued from the old thread...
WJM: Rationally, it is only if you hold that your intuition is about an objective commodity that you can hold other people accountable to it. Unless, of course, you are saying that because you have a subjective intuition about a subjective state you are authorized to judge others and intervene in their behavior?
RDF: There is no such thing as objective morality. There is only subjective morality. If I choose to believe in the morality of religious scripture X or Y or Z, then that is my subjective choice. If I choose instead to believe in the morality that I inuit, that is also my subjective choice. You and I both have subjective morality that we apply to all other people.
RDF does indeed seem to be saying that he is authorized to judge others and intervene in their behavior based on a personal subjective intuition about a subjective state. (Please correct me if this is not the case.) Everything moral in me screams out that judging others and intervening in their behavior based solely on personal subjective intuition is wrong, wrong, wrong! Everything I believe about liberty, personal freedom, self-expression, and self-actualization tells me that it is morally repugnant to judge another or intervene in their behavior based solely on personal subjective intuition. Why do you think that personal subjective intuition gives you this authority? Do you have any warrant for holding this position? What is it about personal subjective intuition that could rationally authorize one to judge another to the point of intervening in their behavior? What argument would you put forward to support the notion that personal subjective intuitions out to have a privileged status above mere opinion or preference, or, in fact, that they ought not be seen as the same thing?Phinehas
July 17, 2014
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