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Evolution is a Fact!

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Just so we are clear, I am certain that everyone who posts at this site believes evolution is a fact (or fact! fact! fact! as some of our more breathless opponents prefer). 

Whoa Barry!  Are you telling us that Uncommon Descent does not oppose the concept of evolution?  Yes, I am telling you exactly that.

Then what is all the fuss and disagreement about?  I’m glad you asked.  But before I answer that question, let me begin with what the fuss and disagreement are NOT about.

 The fuss and the disagreement are not about whether evolution occurred.  Obviously evolution occurred if by “evolution” one means, “things are different now than they were in the past.”  I don’t know anyone who disagrees with that.  That bare fact is uninteresting, even trivial. 

The important question is not WHETHER things are different now than they were in the past.  They obviously are.  The important question is “WHY are things different now than they were in the past?”  As Phil Johnson has pointed out, the Darwinist starts with the following proposition:  “Given materialist premises, Darwinian evolution or something very much like it simply must be true.”  Therefore, since the Darwinist already “knows” that Darwinian evolution exhausts all of the options open to investigation, he interprets all of the data to – big surprise here – confirm Darwinian evolution.  It is almost literally the case that a Darwinist is incapable of seeing data that does not confirm or tends to disconfirm his theory. 

But the Darwinist’s initial premise is false even on materialist terms.  Even uber-materialist Richard Dawkins admits that the complexity and diversity of life might be the result of the actions of super-intelligent aliens.  This explanation requires no supernatural act to have occurred and violates no precept either of philosophical or methodological materialism.

Therefore, the fuss and the disagreement is about whether “intelligent cause” must be ruled out from the beginning as a possible causal factor for why things are different now than they were in the past.  It is exactly like two police detectives standing over the body of a person whose head has been bashed in by a blunt object and having the following conversation:

Columbo:  “I am a materialist.  Therefore, given my premises I know for a certain fact that this person’s death must have been caused by blind, unguided natural forces.  Therefore, I already know that all of the data I find will support that conclusion.  Moreover, the certain knowledge I have before I ever even look at the data means I will never even have to consider the possibility that this person’s death was caused by the acts of an intelligent agent, and I can safely ignore any data that might tend to disprove my starting point or confirm an “intelligent agent” theory.  My theory is that a rock fell from above and hit him in the head.  Probably the rock was dislodged from the side of a hill by the wind or rain and rolled down the hill and smacked him.  Bad luck all around.  By the way, I call the rolling rock theory a “theory” only for form’s sake.  We both know it is a fact! fact! fact!  Bad luck all around.  Case closed.”

Holmes:  “I am not going to make up my mind in advance about whether this death resulted from blind, unguided and exceedingly bad luck or whether it is the result of the acts of an intelligent agent, that is to say, murder.  By the way, I am willing to assume materialist premises too, at least on a methodological basis, but you are wrong to say that assumption precludes the act of an intelligent agent.  All murderers of whom I am aware have been quite human.  I understand your rolling rock theory, and I just don’t think it is supported by the data.  First of all, the body is almost at the top of the hill, so it is unlikely that even if a rock were dislodged by the wind and rain it could have gathered enough momentum to do the work you ascribe to it.  Also, I note that there are no bloody rocks anywhere around the body.  Finally, I note the presence of a bloody club near the body, and on that club are the fingerprints of the dead person’s worst enemy who swore to kill him only two days ago.  I conclude that the “accident theory” while not impossible from a mathematical or logical perspective is not the most likely explanation.  This scene bears indicia of design.  I conclude the victim was murdered.”

 Columbo:  “Fundamentalist cretin!”

If the case were to proceed to trial, we might also have this:

Judge Jones:  “I understand that Holmes went to Sunday School when  he was  a child.  Therefore, his theory must be disregarded as the musings of a religious fanatic.  Case dismissed.  Bailiff, set the defendant free!”

Comments
Joseph:
"Or is there some other intermediate model of interaction with life that the designer adopts that I haven’t grasped?" Could be. That is why we need science- to help us make that determination.
Any current work on this? It seems to be a matter of some criticality.mikev6
September 20, 2009
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CannuckianYankee:
He even accepts common descent, which goes against the beliefs of many Christians.
I am a staunch Christian and I agree with common descent. My understanding is that man was the last creature to be designed. It makes sense that the designer would reuse a mountain of code that had already been perfected. A little addition here, cut a few things over there, modify those in the middle and Bingo! The first human is designed! It makes sense that an intelligent designer would use a compositional model to create new designs. If I remember correctly, Sumerian myths claim that the Gods (Anunaki) created humans from apes. As a software engineer and Christian, I find the Sumerian story very plausible. In fact, I've proposed just such a hierarchical compositional architecture for all software design. Check it out if you're into programming. PS. to moderators. I've tried to be good. Can I be freed now? LOL.Mapou
September 20, 2009
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If abiogenesis occurred by design then it cannot be tested.
Joseph: Sure it can.
You're right Joseph. I had irony in mind when I wrote that. If a process entails guidance by necessity than nothing short of guidance will suffice to experimentally reproduce the process.pk4_paul
September 20, 2009
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pk4_paul:
If abiogenesis occurred by design then it cannot be tested.
Sure it can. However how can we test the premise that living organisms arose from non-living matter via chance and necessity? We test the design inference by seeing if CSI or IC is present.Joseph
September 20, 2009
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MeganC:
Only supernatural design/intervention is excluded from ‘explaining’ evolution & abiogenesis since it makes no predictions and can’t be tested.
ID doesn't require the supernatural. Just a targeted search.
If you want to propose a naturalistic design for evolution/abiogenesis then you need to present a testable hypothesis which makes scientifically meaningful predictions.
Waiting on you. IOW anytime you would like to ante up and actually support your position...Joseph
September 20, 2009
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Cabal, The OoL is relevant because if living organisms did not arise from non-living matter via blind watchmaker-type processes then there wouldn't be any reason to infer said processes rule over evolution.Joseph
September 20, 2009
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James Bond:
Did the designer act ONCE, at some point during (I guess the beginning of) life, setting up the starting conditions intelligently, and then microevolution has brought us the rest of the way?
Could be. That is why we need science- to help us make that determination.
Or does the designer act continuously, effecting change step by step in life, much like evolution, but with an intelligent agent at the helm?
Could be. That is why we need science- to help us make that determination.
Or is there some other intermediate model of interaction with life that the designer adopts that I haven’t grasped?
Could be. That is why we need science- to help us make that determination. Hope that helps. :)Joseph
September 20, 2009
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camanintx:
Has anyone proposed a mechanism which allows for the 6 million odd differences we find within the human genome and yet prevents the 68 million differences we find between our genome and the chimps?
68 million differences? I was unaware that someomne has done a complete side by side comparison. However that is irrelevant. There isn't any data which links the genetic differences to the physiological and anatomical differences.Joseph
September 20, 2009
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Seversky:
I think, however, Holmes would concede that materialism does not exclude the possibility of design where there is evidence for the existence of a designer.
Except that the ONLY evidence materialsm will alow is a meeting with the designer(s). IOW science need not come knocking.Joseph
September 20, 2009
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The important question is not WHETHER things are different now than they were in the past. They obviously are. The important question is “WHY are things different now than they were in the past?
Has anyone proposed a mechanism which allows for the 6 million odd differences we find within the human genome and yet prevents the 68 million differences we find between our genome and the chimps?camanintx
September 20, 2009
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Cabal:
AFAIK, OOL research is a thriving subdivision of scientific inquiry.
There's money in it but after many decades we cannot predict squat about how life arises.pk4_paul
September 20, 2009
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Like Bond, JamesBond, I too would like to know what the proposed hypothesis is. Let's get something we can test!!ellazimm
September 20, 2009
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The important question is not WHETHER things are different now than they were in the past. They obviously are. The important question is “WHY are things different now than they were in the past?” - Barry Arrington This is a great post, because it'll let me ask what is really my biggest question about Intelligent Design: What is the current consensus among ID propenents: Did the designer act ONCE, at some point during (I guess the beginning of) life, setting up the starting conditions intelligently, and then microevolution has brought us the rest of the way? Or does the designer act continuously, effecting change step by step in life, much like evolution, but with an intelligent agent at the helm? Or is there some other intermediate model of interaction with life that the designer adopts that I haven't grasped?JamesBond
September 20, 2009
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If abiogenesis occurred by design then it cannot be tested. Current approaches proceed under the assumption that there was no design and no predictions are possible and testing is futile if design is real. That could explain results of origin of life research. Science cannot reproduce what did not happen.
AFAIK, OOL research is a thriving subdivision of scientific inquiry. But since it is not crucial to the ToE, why not just take it from there and start our investigation from what we do know: Life got started! BT, science can of course reproduce what did happen - we can repeat what nature did, or what the designer did. He did have to something to create life, didn't he? Even if by magic, he had to manipulate matter. We are even in a better position than the designer when we attempt recreation of life: We know what life is, how it looks, how it works! While the designer, unless he is one or more of 'the little green men' that presumably already are life forms (but they hardly could have landed on the young Earth more over 3 billion years ago) had to start from scratch with absolutely no information about life. Where to start, what to do, how to do it?Cabal
September 20, 2009
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Megan:
Only supernatural design/intervention is excluded from ‘explaining’ evolution & abiogenesis since it makes no predictions and can’t be tested.
If abiogenesis occurred by design then it cannot be tested. Current approaches proceed under the assumption that there was no design and no predictions are possible and testing is futile if design is real. That could explain results of origin of life research. Science cannot reproduce what did not happen.pk4_paul
September 20, 2009
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Barry, "Therefore, the fuss and the disagreement is about whether “intelligent cause” must be ruled out from the beginning as a possible causal factor for why things are different now than they were in the past." Only supernatural design/intervention is excluded from 'explaining' evolution & abiogenesis since it makes no predictions and can't be tested. If you want to propose a naturalistic design for evolution/abiogenesis then you need to present a testable hypothesis which makes scientifically meaningful predictions. Some supporting evidence would help your case.MeganC
September 20, 2009
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Speaking as someone who has read every Sherlock Holmes story there is I am bound to concur with 'his' theory. I think, however, Holmes would concede that materialism does not exclude the possibility of design where there is evidence for the existence of a designer. Thus, whenever critics point to the improbability of some aspect of evolution I am inevitably reminded of his famous dictum: "When you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" The trick, of course, lies in being able to exclude the impossible.Seversky
September 20, 2009
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Barry, Why make Columbo the enemy? I like him. :) Anyway, good analogy. I especially like the Judge Jones bit, because that's exactly what happened in Dover, only Holmes was Dr.Behe. What's interesting though, is that Behe is not even a particularly staunch 'religionist.' One would expect the treatment he received if he was a biblical literalist or fundamentalist, but he's not. He even accepts common descent, which goes against the beliefs of many Christians. This particular dynamic only goes to show the lengths the Darwinist lobby will go in mischaracterizing anyone who disagrees with them - scientific credentials be damned.CannuckianYankee
September 20, 2009
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