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Guest Post, Dr YS: “Intelligent Design and arguments against it”

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Dr YS, contribtes thoughts again that are well worth pondering:

>>I’d like to present a summary of the arguments against the design hypothesis that I have come across either as a reader or as an author of a pro-design blog over the past 8 years since I became interested in intelligent design.

The Design Hypothesis

Before we do it, let us first recap on what the design hypothesis really is. It states that some configurations of matter in specific conditions are best explained as caused by purposeful activity of one or more intelligent agents.

  • The ‘specific conditions’ means that we could not directly observe how these configurations of matter came into being and can only analyse them post-factum.
  • ‘Intelligence’ in this context means the capabilities of foresight, goal-setting, strategy planning and strategy realization. Put simply, it is the capability of using adequate means for a purpose. 
  • The ‘purpose’ corresponds to selecting a goal state from among physically or chemically equivalent states (states with minimal total potential energy). Selection is done on a non-physical basis (pragmatic utility).
    • E.g. muckers is a game in which players take turns throwing rings from a distance at a vertically positioned pole on a horizontal playing ground. A player who throws a ring so that it lands at the pole, receives one point. The player getting a maximum score wins. The scoring aside, no matter how you throw a ring or where it lands on the playing field, it ends up in a position where its potential energy is at a minimum value. The ‘meaning’ to each toss that distinguishes a trajectory from among a set of possible trajectories, is assigned by imposing additional (symbolic) constraints specifying the ‘target’ area for a trajectory. The additional constraints are local to the particular physical system (the ring + gravity + the pole).
  • ‘Best’ means the ‘most appropriate’, ‘most parsimonious’ or even ‘characterized by the highest probability’, depending on the context.
  • ‘Design’ means either the process of purposeful activity or an outcome of it. 
    • E.g. a personal computer is a design whereas pebbles on the beach are most likely not. It is possible that pebbles themselves or their particular arrangements can be a design. However, methodologically, it is best to assume they are not unless we have more observations that can help further refine our design-inferential probabilistic model.

Importantly, not every cause in nature is intelligent. For example, gravity is not an intelligent type of causation whereas creating a deck of Microsoft PowerPoint slides, most probably, is. If we have observations that can throw a reasonable doubt on non-intelligence of gravity, for example, we will further refine our understanding of material reality. In the absence of such observations these doubts are not scientifically justified.

The effects of intelligent and non-intelligent causes are sometimes different also. Analyzing this difference is what Intelligent Design is all about. Based on an analysis of some special class of artifacts we can reliably tell if we are dealing with designs. In other cases, it is not possible to distinguish designs from non-designs post-factum, without additional information.

It is important to distinguish between intelligent and non-intelligent causation because this distinction helps us categorize our knowledge of the material world better and, consequently, propose better scientific explanations. The distinction is well supported empirically and, without it, it is not possible to adequately explain a whole class of observations. For example, treating this text as a random collection of differently colored pixels on the screen is a valid scientific model but I doubt it has any practical use as it adds virtually nothing new to our knowledge of the world.

The design hypothesis can be useful in a lot of contexts, such as archaeology and forensics. It adds a lot of insight when applied to biological systems. It is not generally disputed that the ID methodology is sound. At least, I have never encountered anyone who would seriously question the design detection methodology in relation to forensics, archaeology, medicine or cyber-intrusion detection, for instance. The only area of application where ID faces strong opposition is biology. Science has nothing to do with it.

The scientific agenda of Intelligent Design is non-trivial as the main design hypothesis leads to interesting research questions. Intuitively, when we assume that a particular configuration of matter is intelligently created we can reverse-engineer it and then reuse our findings elsewhere. This is done in bionics, for example. ID can lead to non-trivial testable secondary hypotheses in biology per se, as this article shows.

The design detection methodology is summarized by the following abductive inference:

1. We observe phenomenon Р.

2. Р could be explained if hypothesis Н was true.

3. Consequently, we have grounds to believe that H is true.

Examples of P:

– the semiotic triple {sign-interpretant-referent}, notably persistent self-reproducing semiotic triple as in biological systems;

– statistically significant levels of functional complexity.

The basis of abduction in relation to P in the biosphere:

– In all observations other than in biological systems, whose origins are in question, P is a correlate of intelligence. No observations exist where P would arise ab initio without intelligent agency.

I specifically stress that the presented reasoning is nowhere near circular.

Having said this, I will now present arguments against ID that I have encountered. I am not intending to ridicule the reasoning of ID opponents. Simply, in my experience, this is the best they can really offer. In the list below, I will put my comments next to each bullet point.

Popular arguments against Intelligent Design

#Argument against IDComment
1ID is based entirely on Fisherian hypothesis testing. Instead of ruling out any hypothesis entirely, it would have been better to keep all relevant hypotheses on the table because, as we collect observations, different hypotheses can really change their relative importance.Statistical hypothesis testing is an established practical method of assessing scientific hypotheses. ID-opponents are welcome to come up with a better model, if they wish so.
2Who designed the Designer? (=Who painted the painter?)The point of this argument is to demonstrate that ID reasoning is either circular or suffers from infinite regress. Neither is true. 
3What are the properties of the Designer of life?The Designer of life is intelligent: capable of forethought and planning, decision making and strategy implementation. The scale and grandeur of the design of life suggests that the capabilities of the Designer are matching the task. The Designer of life must have had the linguistic capacity since life is inherently linguistic. The only real problem I can see here is complexity because, by the same argument as presented in this OP, the Designer of life should be very complex (perhaps, infinitely complex). My personal take on this, is that the complexity argument does not apply the way the ID opponents want to use it: our consciousness is simple and yet we create complex artifacts. In any case, we just have no other data than human artifacts and life. Perhaps, the AI singularity, if it happens at all, when it does happen, will provide more data to refine our understanding of the complexity issue.
4We have insufficient data to classify life with respect to design. It is the purpose of science to extrapolate our knowledge onto something that has not been observed yet and to make predictions. The workflow is as usual: from observations through analysis to prediction. As more observations become available, predictions are corrected appropriately.
5How the Designer of life created it?By instantiating a persistent self-reproducing semiotic core into physicality. 
6I could have done it better. Therefore it is not a design.An example of flawed reasoning. A poor design is still a design. On the other hand, examples of alleged ‘bad designs’ are simply misunderstandings. People are not taking into consideration the fact that organisms are a result of multicriteria optimization. What appears to be a poor choice is really a compromise between different conflicting objectives.
7Believing in the design of life is the same as believing that the Earth is flat.A rhetorical device aimed at discrediting the opponents by association. It has no real scientific value.
8Information is in your head.
This extreme view denies the objectivity of information processing. It does not take into account the fact that the genetic information translation apparatus installed in all organisms predates humans and is part of objective reality. Questioning the objectivity of information translation phenomenon is equivalent to questioning science itself.
9A river flowing around stones sends information to and receives information from them.This view is the opposite extreme. It does not take into account the fact that it is meaningful to speak about information only where there is information translation. Natural phenomena (apart from organisms and human artifacts) do not involve information translation.
10The cycle of star formation follows an algorithm.
Spotting natural regularity can be formalized as an algorithm. However, regularity itself is NOT an algorithm. An algorithm is a set of coherent instructions that must explicitly be present in memory, read from it and be processed in order for the system to achieve a goal state. In most cases, to achieve a pragmatic purpose an algorithm should be a set of instructions such that the processor eventually stops and produces a result.
11Everything can be coded with 1 bit.
That one is a best-seller. The answer is, obviously, yes, if you have previously established all the information context for it. It is the establishment of the context that involves all the remaining complexity…
12The design hypothesis is circular.
Simply wrong. In the above, there is no circularity at all.
13DNA is not code. The notion of code is ephemeral and subjective.DNA/RNA carry instructions that are interpreted by the cell in the context of protein synthesis. The genetic code is the set of rules used by living cells to translate information encoded within genetic material (DNA or mRNA sequences) into proteins. Translation is accomplished by the ribosome, which links amino acids in an order specified by messenger RNA (mRNA), using transfer RNA (tRNA) molecules to carry amino acids and to read the mRNA three nucleotides at a time.
14Replication of crystals and replication of organisms are essentially the same.
A categorical error. They are not the same. Matrix copying (similar to crystal copying) is part of replication of organisms, but it is only part of it. Replication of living things requires a symbolic memory to store genetic instructions, a mechanism of retrieval and interpretation of those instructions together with a mechanism of interpretation of instructions to replicate the interpreter. Nowhere near replication of crystals.
15Crystallisation is an example of self-organisation.
A categorical error. Organization relates to function, not order. Order is routinely observed in nature as a result of the tendency of system dynamics towards states with minimum total potential energy. This is fundamentally different from organization. Organization involves a non-uniform (irregular) functional whole where function is understood in terms of pragmatic utility. Regular structures like crystals can be used as part of functional systems but, by themselves, neither crystals nor any other naturally occurring regular structures can produce a non-trivial functional whole. Organization imposes specific (e.g. symbolic) constraints on the dynamics of matter in the system. ‘No specific constraints’ means ‘no function’ means ‘no organization’.
16Everything in nature is self-organized just like sand gets sorted by centrifugal forces on river banks.The same categorical error as above equating the motion of matter towards states of minimum total potential energy to functional organization that produces pragmatic utility.
17Semiotics is demagoguery.Another bestseller argument.
18Semiotic effects are reducible to the laws of nature.Including this OP? Are there laws of nature that can predict someone writing this OP?!
19Abduction is fiction, Charles Peirce’s idiosyncrasy.Again, a wonderful counter-argument indeed. It misses a whole history of discoveries and scientific advances based on the seminal ideas of Charles Peirce.
20Lots of vastly different things appeared in ‘every which way’ in the past. Life is just what happened to prevail.An ‘interesting’ thought. And a very specific one, too.
21Science knows a single type of intelligence, that is, one correlated with a protein-based body/brain. Consequently, a hypothetical statement about intelligence outside of a protein body/brain is nonsense.There is a killer counter-example for it, i.e. silicon-based artificial intelligence. The counter-example demonstrates that intelligence can function and multiply outside of protein bodies.
22— Gravity is all that is necessary for our world to appear. — And where did gravity come from? — M-theory.
A categorical error conflating reality with our mental models of it. It lacks coherence and misses the point of organization completely.  This argument is due to Stephen Hawking [paraphrased]. See J. Lennox, “God and Stephen Hawking: Whose design is it anyway?”

>>

Again, food for rich thought. END

Comments
Reapers Plague- I am comfortable knowing there are many people who can verify what I said. That means there are many people who know what I said is true.ET
November 14, 2019
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ET and Ed, you two are so[SNIP, vulgarities] that the flies are circling. ET, nobody believes your “war” stories. And Ed, nobody believes your holier-than-thou sermons.Reapers Plague
November 14, 2019
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Ed George- Jealous, quote-mining coward and pathological liar. Embarrassed by its ignorance, it tries to inflate its less than mediocre life. Everything Ed says he did could be accomplished merely by Ed's passing.ET
November 14, 2019
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ET
The Statue of Liberty was closed on September 11, 2001. It reopened to visitors in August of 2004...[self promoting, unsubstantiated nonsense]
Sorry, while you were [SNIP, vulgarities] I was working to ensure that our drinking water was safe, our food was safe to eat, our air was safe to breath and our lakes were safe to swim in. [--> warning given below]Ed George
November 14, 2019
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LoL! @ Ed- The stump is what is left AFTER the tree has been cut down. Only Ed and his relatives would then go around the stump with a hatchet to make it into a point. OK, Ed, get your Native American and a beaver and I will tell you which one cut down which tree. The Statue of Liberty was closed on September 11, 2001. It reopened to visitors in August of 2004. In July of 2004 I was given a personal, private tour of the Lady by a Colonel of the NY State Troopers. I got to look out at the hundreds of people looking up and wishing they were me that day. And then there was that meeting with the top General of the Egyptian Army to discuss secure communications from their bases to their satellite. Or going deep inside Saudi Navy headquarters to install encryption on their land to sea missile communications. Or working with Ericsson in Norway on secure comms for the Patriot missile system deployed in the Mideast. Or perhaps those two weeks in Kuwait and Iraq, right there, in the triangle, helping save lives. Don't get me started on the two tours to Colombia. And given the way I deal with lowlifes like you, I am sure all of my ancestors are proud to call me a descendent. As for my insightful comments- they always follow your pathetic lies- always. You could never support the [SNIP, crude expression] you say and yet you say it anyway. You are a lowlife, Ed. You are a pathological liar. You obviously cannot help it. It's like Tourette's.ET
November 14, 2019
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ET
Why would anyone go around the stump? Have you ever used an axe or hatchet, Ed?
Yup
Easily done.
Prove it.
My great, great, great, great grandmother was a Micmac
And she would be rolling over in her grave if she saw what her great, great, great, great grandson turned out to be.
And you have a long history of being a lying coward and lowlife loser.
It is those insightful comments that have endeared you to the ID crowd. And made you the poster-child for those opposed to ID for everyone else. Please don’t changeEd George
November 14, 2019
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Sev @ 104, >...although it might explain the faulty nature of some aspects of the “design”. >If the putative designer is the Christian God then we have to ask, following John Stuart Mill, why an all-powerful, all-knowing God would bother to work within design constraints? I think it bears repeating that any being capable of creating us and our universe could have purposes and self-chosen constraints that we don’t know about, or that we can even conceive of if we were told of them. That will make it hard to get all of our questions answered, but that's the price of being finite beings.EDTA
November 14, 2019
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Ed George:
Actually, if all you have is a small hatchet, going around the stump is the most effective approach.
Why would anyone go around the stump? Have you ever used an axe or hatchet, Ed?
I dare you to distinguish between a beaver felled tree and a Native American felled tree.
Easily done.
Unless, of course, you are suggesting that indigenous Americans aren’t human.
My great, great, great, great grandmother was a Micmac.
He has a history of getting in trouble (fired) for posting threats on company computers.
And you have a long history of being a lying coward and lowlife loser.ET
November 14, 2019
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DDM
ET’s only observed beavers on the internet.
I’m pretty sure that ET’s dog has placed a net nanny on his internet. :) He has a history of getting in trouble (fired) for posting threats on company computers.Ed George
November 14, 2019
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ET
It would be quite the task for a human to make hatchet strikes produce close to perfect stump spikes. Humans tend to hit one side then the opposite. Beavers go around the tree and branches. Humans don’t waste the time.
Actually, if all you have is a small hatchet, going around the stump is the most effective approach. I dare you to distinguish between a beaver felled tree and a Native American felled tree. Unless, of course, you are suggesting that indigenous Americans aren’t human.Ed George
November 14, 2019
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Ed: "That is because we know about beavers and have observed them build dams." ET's only observed beavers on the internet.DerekDiMarco
November 14, 2019
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Ed George:
In spite of you saying that they look like the dams built by children in streams.
I said Beaver dams remind me of dams human children build in stream. The messy nature. The use of smaller branches as opposed to the log. Then there is the size of the project to consider
It is very difficult to distinguish between a tree felled by a small hatchet and one felled by a beaver.
It would be quite the task for a human to make hatchet strikes produce close to perfect stump spikes. Humans tend to hit one side then the opposite. Beavers go around the tree and branches. Humans don't waste the time.ET
November 14, 2019
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ET
Not likely. And definitely not on close inspection. Then there is the fact of no other human artifacts and pointed stumps with obvious teeth marks. You know, evidence, Ed.
In spite of you saying that they look like the dams built by children in streams.
Have you ever seen a beaver dam and the surrounding area, Ed?
I see them every day. It is very difficult to distinguish between a tree felled by a small hatchet and one felled by a beaver. Especially if you have no idea what a beaver is.Ed George
November 14, 2019
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Ed
That is because we know about beavers and have observed them build dams. If we didn’t have this knowledge, it would certainly be reasonable to infer that humans did it.
Do you agree that building a dam requires intelligence = {foresight, planning, strategy realization}? In the context of the discussion, regarding dams I do not think it matters who exactly built them, beavers or humans. What matters is that they were built by intelligent agents, not by the forces of nature.EugeneS
November 14, 2019
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Ed George:
If we didn’t have this knowledge, it would certainly be reasonable to infer that humans did it.
Not likely. And definitely not on close inspection. Then there is the fact of no other human artifacts and pointed stumps with obvious teeth marks. You know, evidence, Ed. Have you ever seen a beaver dam and the surrounding area, Ed?ET
November 14, 2019
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ET
Beaver dams remind me of dams human children build in stream. Yet it isn’t a reasonable inference that humans built the beaver dams.
That is because we know about beavers and have observed them build dams. If we didn’t have this knowledge, it would certainly be reasonable to infer that humans did it.Ed George
November 14, 2019
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seversky:
Is there any reason to think that the perception of design in nature is anything other than a form of pareidolia?
Yes. That "perception", as you call it, is based on our KNOWLEDGE of cause-and-effect relationships. We have a standing criteria we can test for. And we have a scientific SOP to guide us.
The only designer of which are aware is ourselves and we have no reason to think we designed ourselves – although it might explain the faulty nature of some aspects of the “design”.
You mean your perceived faulty nature of some aspects of the design.
If the putative designer is the Christian God then we have to ask, following John Stuart Mill, why an all-powerful, all-knowing God would bother to work within design constraints?
Infantile. That is the only way to have it continue to work once the Designer(s) went away- hands-off mode. Set it and forget it. Let it run its course. Why create a perfect universe? Or maybe that was already accomplished an was found to be very boring. So a universe in which there is chaos was intelligently designed, set in motion and given inhabitants to explore it.ET
November 14, 2019
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Pater:
Hydrogen + gravity forms stars without any guidance.
Actually there has to be something else. Hydrogen doesn't just collapse on itself. And then the heat generated by the collapse would tend to cause, guess what, expansion.
Stars form heavier elements without any planning.
Question-begging. ID would have that as part of the intelligently designed universe that could sustain itself.
Atoms form molecules which form organic molecules, even in intersteller space, without any planning.
Question-begging. See above
Any time a subunit forms, it has the potential to combine with other subunits to form a larger unit higher up on a hierarchy.
That subunits form is evidence for Intelligent Design, Pater. The process of going from nucleotide source code to a polypeptide that folds into a functionally relevant form is evidence for ID, Pater.
Sure, life is more complex and take more time to form, but the principle of hierarchies forming in nature is pretty ubiquitous.
Again with your question-begging. ID says it- the hierarchy- was intelligently designed. And Spiegelman's Monster is evidence against spontaneous generation. Nature tends towards the simple. It is OK with rocks and water.ET
November 14, 2019
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Pater 103
Hydrogen + gravity forms stars without any guidance.
Firstly, that is possible as a consequence of parameter fine-tuning. Secondly, guidance is necessary for complex function. Natural regularities (like the tendency towards states with a minimum of total potential energy) do not result in complex functional structures. Complex function is organization based on pragmatic rules instantiated into physicality.EugeneS
November 14, 2019
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Seversky
By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and all the stars by the breath of His mouth. ... For He spoke, and it came to be; He commanded, and it stood firm.
Psalms 33 I find it really hard to see what Mill meant. I do not see any limitation of divine power in something that God created. What kind of limitation is it for God to be able to create everything out of nothing by His Word?! Mill's view, in my opinion, is based on scientism, an extreme belief that everything there is can be (potentially) explained by science. I do not hold that view. In fact, I am ready to go with science, or ID for that matter, only up to a point because, as an Orthodox Christian, I can see a limit to what science can do. It cannot explain the miracle of creation. Scientifically, we can only do so much. E.g. no.5 on the list in the OP is just a generalization, i.e. what it amounts to in terms of the properties of material systems. Exactly how this was done by God, we do not know.EugeneS
November 14, 2019
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ID’ists do not reject the idea of natural causation a priori. Indeed, much of what we perceive in the natural world can be (indeed should be) explained “naturally.” What we do reject is that natural causes are the only kind of causes that must be used to explain the origin and evolution of life. For example, in his book Darwin’s Black Box, Michael Behe asks,
“Might there be an as yet undiscovered natural process that would explain biochemical complexity? No one would be foolish enough to categorically deny the possibility. Nonetheless we can say that if there is such a process, no one has a clue how it would work. Further it would go against all human experience, like postulating that a natural process might explain computers… In the face of the massive evidence we do have for biochemical design, ignoring the evidence in the name of a phantom process would be to play the role of detective who ignore the elephant.” (p. 203-204)
Basically Behe is asking, if biochemical complexity (irreducible complexity) evolved by some natural process x, how did it evolve? That is a perfectly legitimate scientific question. Notice that even though in DBB Behe was criticizing Neo-Darwinism he is not ruling out a priori some other mindless natural evolutionary process, “x”, might be able to explain IC. Behe is simply claiming that at the present there is no known natural process that can explain how irreducibly complex mechanisms and processes originated. If he and other ID’ist are categorically wrong then our critics need to provide the step-by-step-by-step empirical explanation of how they originated, not just speculation and wishful thinking. Unfortunately our regular interlocutors seem to only be able to provide the latter not the former. Behe made another point which is worth keeping in mind.
“In the abstract, it might be tempting to imagine that irreducible complexity simply requires multiple simultaneous mutations - that evolution might be far chancier than we thought, but still possible. Such an appeal to brute luck can never be refuted... Luck is metaphysical speculation; scientific explanations invoke causes.”
In other words, a strongly held metaphysical belief is not a scientific explanation. So why does Neo-Darwinism persist? I believe it is because of its a-priori ideological or philosophical fit with naturalistic or materialistic world views. Human being are hard wired to believe in something-- anything to explain or make some sense of our existence. Unfortunately we also have a strong tendency to believe in a lot of untrue things. On the other hand, if IC is the result of design, it has to answer the question of how was the design instantiated. If ID wants to have a place at the table it has to find a way to answer questions like that. Once again, one of the primary things science is about is answering the “how” questions. Or as another example, ID’ists argue that the so-called Cambrian explosion can be better explained by an infusion of design. Okay that is possible. (Of course, I whole heartedly agree because I am very sympathetic to the concept of ID.) But how was the design infused to cause a sudden diversification of body plans? Did the “designer” tinker with the genomes of simpler life forms or were they specially created as some creationists would argue? (The so-called interventionist view.) Or were the new body plans somehow pre-programmed into their progenitors (so-called front loading.) How do you begin to answer such questions that have happened in the distant past? At least the Neo-Darwinists have the pretense of an explanation-- though extra emphasis should be put on the word pretense. Can we get them to abandon their theory by declaring it impossible? Isn’t it at least possible, as Behe acknowledges, that there is some other unknown natural explanation “x.” On the other hand, is saying something is metaphysically possible a scientific explanation? Obviously not. The goal of science is to find some kind of provisional proof or compelling evidence. Why for example was the Large Hadron Collider built at the cost of billions of dollars (how much was it in euros?) Obviously it was because in science mere possibility is not the end of the line. The ultimate quest of science is truth and knowledge. Of course, we need to concede that science will never be able to explain everything.john_a_designer
November 14, 2019
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Pater, there are more things in heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in the creationists' philosophy.DerekDiMarco
November 14, 2019
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EugeneS@ 102
I was just trying to be polite ) In the actual fact, the more I read evo-mats the more I wonder, how is it possible at all to spend one’s lifetime studying biology and still not be able to notice the most important thing there is about life, i.e. that it is designed?! This is pathetic.
Is there any reason to think that the perception of design in nature is anything other than a form of pareidolia? The only designer of which are aware is ourselves and we have no reason to think we designed ourselves - although it might explain the faulty nature of some aspects of the "design". If life on Earth is the outcome of intervention by some extraterrestrial intelligence I would have no problem with that although, to be persuaded, I would like to see some reliable means of distinguishing artifice from natural processes that works with both human and extraterrestrial source material. If the putative designer is the Christian God then we have to ask, following John Stuart Mill, why an all-powerful, all-knowing God would bother to work within design constraints?
It is not too much to say that every indication of Design in the Kosmos is so much evidence against the Omnipotence of the Designer. For what is meant by Design? Contrivance: the adaptation of means to an end. But the necessity for contrivance—the need of employing means—is a consequence of the limitation of power. Who would have recourse to means if to attain his end his mere word was sufficient? The very idea of means implies that the means have an efficacy which the direct action of the being who employs them has not. Otherwise they are not means, but an incumbrance. A man does not use machinery to move his arms. If he did, it could only be when paralysis had deprived him of the power of moving them by volition. But if the employment of contrivance is in itself a sign of limited power, how much more so is the careful and skilful choice of contrivances? Can any wisdom be shown in the selection of means, when the means have no efficacy but what is given them by the will of him who employs them, and when his will could have bestowed the same efficacy on any other means? Wisdom and contrivance are shown in overcoming difficulties, and there is no room for them in a Being for whom no difficulties exist. The evidences, therefore, of Natural Theology distinctly imply that the author of the Kosmos worked under limitations; that he was obliged to adapt himself to conditions independent of his will, and to attain his ends by such arrangements as those conditions admitted of.
Seversky
November 14, 2019
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@John_a-designer #98 Are you sure you are a designer? When you find the concept of a hierarchy so mysterious that you think it must be planned? What do you design? Clothes? Billboards? Hydrogen + gravity forms stars without any guidance. Stars form heavier elements without any planning. Atoms form molecules which form organic molecules, even in intersteller space, without any planning. Any time a subunit forms, it has the potential to combine with other subunits to form a larger unit higher up on a hierarchy. Sure, life is more complex and take more time to form, but the principle of hierarchies forming in nature is pretty ubiquitous.Pater Kimbridge
November 14, 2019
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Dereck
“My logic has no flaw apparently. Not that I can see, at any rate.” Correct.
I was just trying to be polite ) In the actual fact, the more I read evo-mats the more I wonder, how is it possible at all to spend one's lifetime studying biology and still not be able to notice the most important thing there is about life, i.e. that it is designed?! This is pathetic.EugeneS
November 14, 2019
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Pater:
If something reminds you of things that humans create, then the only reasonable inference is that humans created it.
Beaver dams remind me of dams human children build in stream. Yet it isn't a reasonable inference that humans built the beaver dams.ET
November 14, 2019
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Derek- Please show the flaw in his logic or shut up. You are being a pathetic troll and that isn't an argument.ET
November 14, 2019
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"My logic has no flaw apparently. Not that I can see, at any rate." Correct.DerekDiMarco
November 14, 2019
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10:35 AM
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Can the following be explained by neo-Darwinian theory?
Genetic comparisons between simple multicellular organisms and their single-celled relatives have revealed that much of the molecular equipment needed for cells to band together and coordinate their activities may have been in place well before multicellularity evolved.
This suggests pre-planning, preadaptation or some kind of genetic pre-programming. In other words, a guided, directed, teleological form of evolution. That’s not exactly what Darwin had in mind. You can’t salvage Darwinian evolution by arbitrarily smuggling in teleology where ever and whenever you need it. “Pre-adaptation” is evidence of intelligent design. Single cell Choanoflagellates for some reason are protozoa which have signaling proteins that are necessary in higher multicellular animals including human beings.
Choanoflagellates, or at least their ancestors, have long been suspected as being the bridge between microorganisms with only one cell and metazoan, or multi-cellular organisms… By analyzing the recently-sequenced choanoflagellate genome, the researchers discovered another similarity between choanoflagellates and most metazoans--their genetic code caries the markers of three types of molecules that cells use to achieve phospho-tyrosine signaling proteins. Animals depend on tyrosine phosphorylation to conduct a number of important communications between their cells, including immune system responses, hormone system stimulation and other crucial functions. These phospho-tyrosine signaling pathways utilize a three-part system of molecular components to make these communications possible. Tyrosine kinases (TyrK) 'write' messages between cells by adding phospho-tyrosine modifications, protein tyrosine phosphatases (PTP) are molecules that modify or 'erase' these modifications, and Src Homolgy 2 (SH2) molecules 'read' these modifications so the recipient cell gets the message. Without these three molecules to help our cells 'write,' 'read' and 'erase' chemical messages between them, our bodies would never be able to conduct the complex tasks needed to survive such as reproduction, digesting food or even breathing. Other genome analysis showed that some microorganisms contain some of these molecules in small levels, but never all three. This makes sense considering these organisms don't need the tools to communicate between cells since they are made up of only one cell. What makes choanoflagellates unique, however, is that they have all three of these molecules. What's more, they have relatively large quantities of them in amounts commonly seen in larger metazoan organisms.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080701165050.htm Frankly this undermines neo-Darwinism. What is the Darwinian explanation for a single celled organism evolving a function that they do not need? From an ID perspective, on the other hand, this looks like a case of pre-planning or pre-adaptation. NS + RV is non-teleological it cannot anticipate or look ahead. Darwinism has to rely on lucky accidents that sometime/somehow happened millions of years in the past. How do you prove that these lucky accidents (and there has to be a long series of them) ever occurred? PS The findings appear to be similar to those found in the paper Eugene cited earlier, M. Sherman, Universal Genome and the Origin of Metazoa.john_a_designer
November 14, 2019
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It just so happened that I was browsing my old blog pages and in there I found an old comment by our friend GP on exactly what we are discussing here. I'll just reference it here as relevant and to the point.EugeneS
November 14, 2019
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