Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

How Technological Innovations in Information Transfer Have Made Literature Bluffing Obsolete

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In the Old West, in the days of the Pony Express, information could not be transferred more rapidly than a horse could gallop. Then came the telegraph. Bank robbers could no longer escape to nearby towns without the residents having been informed in advance, at the speed of light in Morse Code.

Then came wireless communication. It was no longer necessary to lay out telegraph or telephone lines. Information could be transferred at the speed of light to Neil Armstrong on the moon.

Then came the blogosphere. At the speed of a URL click, one can check up on references. Literature bluffing is no longer a viable tactic in a debate. Bluffers can no longer escape to a nearby town without being intercepted before they get there.

Michael Behe was instrumental in making the Darwinian literature-bluffing tactic public.

Behe was assured by those in his field that the biochemical evolutionary literature was replete with detailed explanations of how his proposed irreducibly complex biochemical systems could be accounted for in Darwinian terms. But when he checked the literature he discovered that not only were there no detailed explanations, there were not even any speculations. The question had essentially never been addressed by the scientific community in his discipline. The Darwinian thesis had been assumed from the outset, never questioned, and never rigorously investigated. In fact, it had not been investigated at all.

Judge Jones fell prey to literature bluffing. (Actually, he fell prey to indirect hearsay literature bluffing.) Jones apparently believes that Behe’s irreducible-complexity challenge to Darwinian mechanisms has been refuted by the “scientific” community, when in fact those “refutations” amount to nothing more than storytelling based on nonexistent evidence and demonstrably faulty reasoning. Check out my UD essay on that subject here.

Comments
Strangelove, "It seems to me that instead of taking the plantiff’s lawyers word that those 58 articles contain evidence for the evolution of the immune system, you are prefering to take Behe’s word that they don’t." Behe has presented an open challenge in "Darwin's Black Box." The authors of those books and papers, authors that know the material much better than anyone would by just reading the paper, have been welcomed to present their case to Behe or to the world in response to Behe. As Behe and his case have become rather public, I think it reasonable to suggest that the the case presented in favor of an evolutionary pathway of the immune system has been fully communicated to Behe. I look at my personal libraries, there are three, each contains somewhere in the order of a thousand books. (One contains only about 100.) My libraries are miniscule compared to the available literature. The "you should have read everything there is to read" argument, even if limited to a specific subject, is no longer reasonable. (My libraries can be summarized into about 5 subjects, still leaving hundreds of books per subject, the surface of each subject not even being scratched by my library.)bFast
August 9, 2006
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It seems to me that instead of taking the plantiff's lawyers word that those 58 articles contain evidence for the evolution of the immune system, you are prefering to take Behe's word that they don't. One side has read the papers, the other hasn't. Read the papers yourself and make an eductated decision.Strangelove
August 9, 2006
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That's fabulous, John.johnnyb
August 9, 2006
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"You can lead a man to the literature but you can't make him read it." John A. DavisonJohn A. Davison
August 9, 2006
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I think there is a great research project opportunity for a postgrad: 1. Read all the papers/articles/books presented to Behe in court. 2. Index all the literature into categories of eg A) Descriptions of the present system B)descriptions of homologies, etc C)speculative hypotheses D)discussion of evidence of RM & NS producing these systems 3. Determine the % of the literature that addresses D which is after all the point in question. A, B & C are related, but peripheral. D can then be assesed on its merits. Mainly, we can see how big the % percentage of D is and how much bluffing went on. I suspect the % of D is small an Behe's lawyers should have been more alert to this ruse on the day.antg
August 9, 2006
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More from Behe's response. Did he say "not good enough"? Was it necessary that he read the 58 publications? Judge's decision:
(11) In fact, on cross-examination, Professor Behe was questioned concerning his 1996 claim that science would never find an evolutionary explanation for the immune system. He was presented with fifty eight peer-reviewed publications, nine books, and several immunology textbook chapters about the evolution of the immune system; however, he simply insisted that this was still not sufficient evidence of evolution, and that it was not “good enough.” (23:19
Behe.
Several points: 1) Although the opinion’s phrasing makes it seem to come from my mouth, the remark about the studies being “not good enough” was the cross-examining attorney’s, not mine. 2) I was given no chance to read them, and at the time considered the dumping of a stack of papers and books on the witness stand to be just a stunt, simply bad courtroom theater. Yet the Court treats it seriously. 3) ... I said in my testimony that the studies may have been fine as far as they went, but that they certainly did not present detailed, rigorous explanations for the evolution of the immune system by random mutation and natural selection — if they had, that knowledge would be reflected in more recent studies that I had had a chance to read (see below). 4) This is the most blatant example of the Court’s simply accepting the Plaintiffs’ say-so on the state of the science and disregarding the opinions of the defendants’ experts. I strongly suspect the Court did not itself read the “fifty eight peer-reviewed publications, nine books, and several immunology textbook chapters about the evolution of the immune system” and determine from its own expertise that they demonstrated Darwinian claims. How can the Court declare that a stack of publications shows anything at all if the defense expert disputes it and the Court has not itself read and understood them? In my own direct testimony I went through the papers referenced by Professor Miller in his testimony and showed they didn’t even contain the phrase “random mutation”; that is, they assumed Darwinian evolution by random mutation and natural selection was true — they did not even try to demonstrate it. I further showed in particular that several very recent immunology papers cited by Miller were highly speculative, in other words, that there is no current rigorous Darwinian explanation for the immune system. The Court does not mention this testimony.
Charlie
August 8, 2006
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The leading question by the ACLU attorney's was effectively : "Dr. Behe have you read all these papers that refute your work?" Which every way Behe answers he's toast. The attorney's for the defense should have put their foot down. Behe, realized that this was just a stunt, but answered in a trusting manner. The leading question was not as obviously phrased as I just described, but that what it essentially boiled down to.scordova
August 8, 2006
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Gil, "Jones was bluffed." Bluffed by whom? how? "Exaptation (co-option) is not a “phenomenon”; it is wishful speculation. The “abundant evidence” for it is nonexistent." Why did no one argue your point in court? On cross-examination, Behe was confronted with a large stack of articles and books. He admitted he had not read them all, but claimed nonetheless that the evidence was not good enough. Bad move, I think. By the way, have you read everything slapped down in front of Behe?Tom English
August 8, 2006
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Tom, Behe's account is here: Behe respods to Jones There is the account of the court room theatrics where the ACLU makes a leading question (like "have you stopped beating you mother") by slamming down a pile of irrelevant books and papers in front of Behe and asking whether he had considered them. The ID attorneys should have objected to the tactic as the ACLU was resorting to equivocation, and using it to form a leading question by slamming the books down, stacks of which Behe could not have possbily read, but which he knew were outdated and irrelevant. The defense should have challenged the prosecution on the accuracy of the prosecutions claims that this stack actually represented what it supposedly did before allowing Behe to answer. "Objection your honor, the prosecuation asserts such and such...but unless they can show that it refutes Dr. Behe's claims without equivocations, the question should be withdrawn...or at least give us time to review these books. If indeed they are irrelevant, then Dr. Behe shouldn't be held accountable for irrelevant literature which he never read..." or some such objection. The ACLU made a highly clever but a bit shady courtroom move, imho. Unfortunately the defense didn't do it's job and let Behe respond to a leading question based on a literature bluff theatrically played out by the ACLU. The Judge accepted the equivocations and theatrics. In any case, as this relates to Gil's point, this sort of court room theater is being negated in discussion outside the court room. Recently Nick Matzke tried to pull the same stunt on students in Cornell. Because of the internet, I intercepted his attempts at bluffing. One can imagine such exchanges being repeated again. I look forward to learning of similar intercept operations when perpetrated against honest seekers. See: Salvador cuts Nick Matzke off at the pass. Their side in the end looked worse in the wake of their bluffing shenanigans before the students. He tried doing it several times, and by the end I think at least one of the students caught on to Nicks antics. Salvadorscordova
August 8, 2006
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"...Professor Behe attempts to exclude the phenomenon of exaptation by definitional fiat, ignoring as he does so abundant evidence which refutes his argument.” (Kitzmiller ruling, pg. 76.) Jones was bluffed. Exaptation (co-option) is not a "phenomenon"; it is wishful speculation. The "abundant evidence" for it is nonexistent. Those who convinced Jones of the validity of exaptation are not necessarily liars, but perhaps so convinced that it must be true on materialistic presuppositions that the lack of evidence and reason is immaterial (no pun intended). Perhaps they have even bluffed themselves.GilDodgen
August 8, 2006
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Gil, Would you please be more specific about who engaged in literature bluffing in the Kitzmiller trial, and how they bluffed? What is the difference between bluffing and lying? Note that even if Judge Jones had given credence to irreducible complexity, he would not have concluded that ID had scientific support. He found that "Darwinism or ID" is a false dichotomy. He indicated that evidence of irreducible complexity would discredit neo-Darwinism, but would not support the notion that some biosystems are intelligently designed. For more analysis, and for relevant excerpts from the Judge Jones' decision, see post 23 of this UD thread: https://uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1384#commentsTom English
August 8, 2006
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