If you think ID is the only problem out there?

kf, Surely you can see the difference between the banning of a known liar and those banned not for lying but rather for ex-posing the hypocrisy of those who expressed "tolerance" towards the known liar while engaging in intolerance (banning) of those who had the temerity to expose the hypocrisy. Don't get me wrong. I do not say you were in any way involved. It was merely your post about EL that triggered a sad remembrance of this regrettable incident in UD history in which a truth-teller was banned in the name of "tolerance" towards someone who we all know know is a liar. Mung

As the post author (Denyse O’Leary for News)

: Welcome back Denyse! Is JM still with us as News? Mung

Mung: EL was formally invited to return if she so wishes, by the blog owner. I suspect the same would hold for others who have a reasonable case. FYI. Subsequent to that, we saw the latest episode of bland denial in teeth of facts, that she was harbouring false accusations. I don't know how that affects the matter. KF kairosfocus

News @OP and @3: As someone whose work brings me into regular contact with the health and fitness industry, just thought I would mention a couple of things. I don't dispute that the insurance charts don't tell the whole story and having a few extra pounds may not be the crisis it is sometimes made out to be. But for many people, particularly in the US, we are not talking about being just a few pounds outside the expected range. There has been a huge jump in average weight in the last 30-40 years,* and -- to state the obvious -- it has most definitely not been accompanied by less heart disease, less diabetes, more vitality and so on. Quite the opposite. I acknowledge there is a lot of crazy stuff in the health and fitness industry -- some real quacks and snake oil. But there are also some tried and true principles that can be brought to bear if you are careful. Definitely caveat emptor.

Which may be nearly impossible if one’s metabolism has become accustomed to a given weight for decades.

For someone to be in this position is extremely rare. There are enough people and enough differences in lifestyle, metabolism, nutrition, heredity, etc., that we can always find an outlier. But those are the exceptions that prove the rule. As someone on the front lines I can confidently say that nearly everyone (meaning the 99% of us) can significantly improve our weight and our body composition by changing (i) what happens in our mind, (ii) what happens in the kitchen, and (iii) what happens in the gym. And in that order. But it takes work and vigilance. And whether the effort is worth it to a particular person in their particular circumstances is quite another question altogether. ----- * Lots of reasons for this. Some obvious. Some less so. Eric Anderson

Apparently EL is no longer welcome here at UD. I'm guessing her lies had something to do with that. Some of us were more willing than others to call her out for what she is. Yet some who had the temerity to comment upon the hypocrisy involved in allowing her comments to continue as if they were anything but lies were banned. This is a clear injustice. Afiak, it remains unaddressed and unapologised for. That doesn't reflect on the current topic of the OP. The thread where I would have made my comment was closed to comments. Mung

As the post author (Denyse O'Leary for News), I was intrigued by the fact that an evident truth (a minor degree of overweight does not predict bad health or early death) seems everywhere denied in developed nations by the vast amount of attention devoted to losing that last 15 lbs. Which may be nearly impossible if one's metabolism has become accustomed to a given weight for decades. I respect any science writer who has suffered for covering such facts honestly. I don't know about EL. Just got back to the desk a week or so ago. News

Mung: There is a point, but there is another too. There is an extent to which those who have been caught up in the beguiling but intoxicating and toxic drumbeat rhetoric and associations that lead to enabling behaviour end up in sufficient denial of/ "skepticism" regarding reality that they to a significant extent lose ability to see clearly; being in a weird walking dream-state that Paul called "bewitched." Let us never forget, when one believes the false true, one will then perceive the truth -- which contradicts it -- as false, unless one comes to a hard and usually painful point where the truth stands out clearly revealed as distinct from error; yes, such involves a failure of duties of care and a case where one is responsible for going where one gets intoxicated, but such is impaired behaviour nonetheless. Hence, the need for a sharp "sudden cold shower" wake-up. Unfortunately, a LOT of our civilisation has been led into such a talking-point tanked up zombified state in our time . . . I suspect I will need to expand on this in a bit, with dangerous implications I have pointed out here. (Note some of my suggestions on waking up here, in a WIP "ghost story" series.) KF kairosfocus

OT: So EL is a lying liar who is "a lying hypocrite-with-respect-to-reason, who will say anything and its opposite." see here Any chance UD will ever admit it was wrong in banning those who pointed out this fact long ago and issue an apology? Mung