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Jonathan Wells: Far from being all-powerful, DNA does not wholly determine biological form

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Jonathan Wells Jonathan Wells, the author of The Myth of Junk DNA, offers some thoughts on the limitations of what DNA does. Read this before you pay attention to any more DNA fundamentalism:

We have rigorous experimental evidence that DNA does not even code completely for proteins; in most cases the final forms of proteins are not fully specified by DNA sequences.

After transcription, most multi-exon eukaryotic genes undergo alternative splicing, which changes the sequence. [1] We know of one DNA sequence (a “gene” in now-obsolete parlance) in Drosophila from which over 18,000 different proteins are derived, mostly through alternative splicing. [2]

After alternative splicing, some mRNAs undergo editing, in which various subunits are modified or removed and new subunits are added. [3] Because of alternative splicing and RNA editing, the sequences of most mRNAs are different from the original DNA sequence. Instead, their final forms are specified by processes mediated by huge epigenetic complexes (spliceosomes and editosomes) that respond to extracellular cues and operate differently in different developmental stages.

Even after RNAs are translated into proteins, the latter change in ways that cannot be traced back to DNA sequences. First, proteins with the same amino acid sequences can adopt different three-dimensional folding patterns; these are called “metamorphic proteins.” [4] Second, most proteins are glycosylated: That is, complex carbohydrates are chemically bonded to them to generate enormous diversity in protein functions. [5] Since carbohydrate molecules are branched, they carry many more orders of magnitude of information than linear molecules such as DNA and RNA. This has been called the “sugar code,” and although it is highly specified it is largely
independent of DNA sequence information. [6]

So DNA does not completely specify proteins; but even if it did, it would not specify their spatial locations in the cell or embryo. After a protein is transcribed in the nucleus, it must be transported to the proper location in the cell with the help of cytoskeletal arrays and membrane-bound targets that are not themselves specified solely by DNA sequences. The pattern of spatial information in the membrane — called the “membranome” — is known not to be specified by DNA [7] Since spatial localization is essential for proteins to function properly, this adds yet another layer of complexity to the specification of form and function. [8]

Studies using saturation mutagenesis in the embryos of fruit flies, roundworms, zebrafish and mice also provide evidence against the idea that DNA specifies the basic form of an organism. Biologists can mutate (and indeed have mutated) a fruit fly embryo in every possible way, and they have invariably observed only three possible outcomes: a normal fruit fly, a defective fruit fly, or a dead fruit fly.

[1] Kornblihtt AR, Schor IE, Alló M, Dujardin G, Petrillo E, et al. (2013) Alternative splicing: A pivotal step between eukaryotic transcription and translation. Nat Rev Mol Cell Biol 14:153-165. doi:10.1038/nrm3525

[2] Sun W, You X, Gogol-Döring A, He H, Kise Y, et al. (2013) Ultra-deep profiling of alternatively spliced Drosophila Dscam isoforms by circularization-assisted multi-segment sequencing. EMBO J Jun 21, 2013. doi:10.1038/emboj.2013.144

[3] Peng Z, Cheng Y, Tan BC, Kang L, Tian Z, et al. (2012) Comprehensive analysis of RNA-Seq data reveals extensive RNA editing in a human transcriptome. Nat Biotechnol 30:253-260. doi:10.1038/nbt.2122

[4] Bryan PN, Orban J (2010) Proteins that switch folds. Curr Opin Struct Biol 20:482-488. doi:10.1016/j.sbi.2010.06.002

[5] Furukawa K, Ohkawa Y, Yamauchi Y, Hamamura K, Ohmi Y, et al. (2012) Fine tuning of cell signals by glycosylation. J Biochem 151:573-578. doi:10.1093/jb/mvs043

[6] Gabius H-J (2000) Biological information transfer beyond the genetic code: The sugar code. Naturwissenschaften 87:108-121. doi:10.1007/s001140050687

[7] Cavalier-Smith T (2004) The membranome and membrane heredity in development and evolution. In: Hirt RP, Horner DS, eds. Organelles, Genomes and Eukaryote Phylogeny. CRC Press (Boca Raton, FL) pp 335-351.

[8] Wells J (2013) The membrane code: A carrier of essential biological information that is not specified by DNA and is inherited apart from it. In: Marks RJ II, Behe MJ, Dembski WA, Gordon BL, Sanford JC, eds. Biological Information: New Perspectives. World Scientific (Singapore) pp 474-488.

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Comments
AVS @ 50
Dionisio, on the off chance that you are being sincere in your request I will explain: Asking for a complete description of all the process that occur in the first week of development and how they evolved is absolutely absurd. Not only do we not know exactly how a lot of these things work, but what we do know would fill stacks and stacks of books. In fact they do. That’s part of what the problem is with teaching you guys about evolution; we don’t know a lot about how things are happening in cells currently, this makes putting together a picture of the evolution of these biological systems extremely difficult. Anyway here are some terms you can look up to get you on your path to knowledge: transcription factors, cell determination, cell differentiation, fate maps, ectoderm, endoderm, and mesoderm, gastrulation, mitosis, hox genes, and morphogens Wiki is a good resource, good luck
This does not answer the second part of my questions posted on # 14.Dionisio
March 31, 2014
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AVS @ 49
Dionisio and mooseknuckle, I get where you guys are coming from, but your IT background puts you at an extreme disadvantage. We are talking about the living world here in biology, while at the surface it may seem similar to the computer world, there are a vast amount of differences. The best way I can sum it up is the fact that biology is concerned with living things, to which there is no real comparison in the non-living world.
This does not answer the second part of my questions posted on # 14.Dionisio
March 31, 2014
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Jerry, you should try supplementing your information on biology with textbooks and journal articles. When you get your information from the type of people you have mentioned, you tend to gain a misunderstanding of actual biological events and functions.AVS
March 31, 2014
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I haven't read all the comments but what Wells is talking about here is covered in Meyer's book. Somehow the body plans are in the cell walls and other places in the egg but not in the DNA. Meyers spends a couple chapters on this in his book and is one of the truly novel ideas of the book. Meyer provides lot of references from the published literature. Meyer, in his book credits Wells with this insight as Wells got his Ph. D. at Berkeley and studied developmental processes as part of getting his Ph. D. Meyers quotes Wells as saying that this is where Darwinian ideas will fall apart. I once saw a lecture about the development of the brain. There is about 100 billion brain cells and as they are formed each of these 100 billion cells know exactly where to go. Biologists have no idea what directs this process but whatever it is, it is very precise and does not appear to be in any part of the genome.jerry
March 31, 2014
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Yet another person who tells me I have no idea what I am talking about, and yet I am the only person to actually demonstrate any knowledge of biology in the 60 comments above this one. It's quite comical. I'll play along and agree that at the end of the day, building a cell is an "engineering problem," but it is not a type of engineering any of you are familiar with. It would be classified as biological engineering, which I'm sure the computer engineers here would be just as familiar with as they are chemical engineering or civil engineering.AVS
March 31, 2014
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. . . your IT background puts you at an extreme disadvantage. We are talking about the living world here in biology, while at the surface it may seem similar to the computer world, there are a vast amount of differences. The best way I can sum it up is the fact that biology is concerned with living things, to which there is no real comparison in the non-living world.
I love this refuge argument of the clueless. It essentially says, "You understand information systems and engineering and computation. I don't understand them (evidently). Therefore, you are at a disadvantage. No, make that an extreme disadvantage." This is the kind of backdoor argument put forth by someone who doesn't understand that building an organism is, at the end of the day, an engineering problem. No. Instead of dealing with real issues, let's stick to fanciful vague notions, completely void of detail and analysis, about how the Sun gives energy to the Earth, and so life is inevitable. That's the ticket. It would be hard to even parody this stuff. You guys have a lot more patience than I could muster to deal with this level of nonsensical rhetorical bluster . . .Eric Anderson
March 31, 2014
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Dionisio, if you really want to learn about biology, take some classes at an accredited university. Definitely do not rely on UD as a source for information on how biology works. As you can see from this page alone it would seem none of the regulars here at UD have the slightest of knowledge as to molecular biology.AVS
March 31, 2014
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Dear Moose Dr, Yes, your post does make a lot of sense to me. Thank you! I commend you for considering the time with your children more valuable than your professional career. In my case my children were grown up and independent when I decided to change career so drastically. Initially my wife was not excited by my decision, but eventually she understood that "money can't buy me love" and stood by me :) I have given many personal details about myself here in this blog, so that AVS and others could understand my craving for information. I don't want to engage in silly discussions that lead nowhere. I want specific information, so I can learn more. You and I seem to have a similar IT background, which allows us to understand each other better. Also the computer software development background seems to be an advantage when it comes to looking at complex systems. But sometimes I've gotten the impression that biologists don't think the same way, hence it's difficult to communicate with them. Sometimes I think they should make information theory, set theory and math logics required subjects in all undergraduate majors. When I asked a similar question (as posted @ 14) to a biology doctor a few years ago, he asked me if I was interested in philosophy? Only after I told him I wanted purely scientific answers, where "don't know" was an acceptable option, he invited me to visit his institute and introduced me to his research colleagues. We had a very productive meeting where I learned much from them. We had lunch together at a restaurant near their university. At one point the professor noticed I wasn't eating much, so he asked me if I didn't like the meal, to what I responded that I wasn't eating because I was listening to his interesting descriptions of the research work they do in their labs, and got so absorbed by his talk, that completely forgot about the food. He laughed out loud. He said it was the first time a non-biologist sat with him for so long, paid so much attention to his talk, and asked so many questions as I did. My budget is limited, hence I'm taking different approaches to gather information. Online searching is one of them. This forum is another approach. Again, I appreciate the time you took to write to me. If you can see my email address, feel free to write, so we can exchange more info outside this public venue. If you don't see it, I will write it.Dionisio
March 31, 2014
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Dear Moose Dr, Yes, your post does make a lot of sense to me. Thank you! I commend you for considering the time with your children more valuable than your professional career. In my case my children were grown up and independent when I decided to change career so drastically. Initially my wife was not excited by my decision, but eventually she understood that "money can't buy me love" and stood by me :) I have given many personal details about myself here in this blog, so that AVS and others could understand my craving for information. I don't want to engage in silly discussions that lead nowhere. I want specific information, so I can learn more. You and I seem to have a similar IT background, which allows us to understand each other better. Also the computer software development background seems to be an advantage when it comes to looking at complex systems. But sometimes I've gotten the impression that biologists don't think the same way, hence it's difficult to communicate with them. Sometimes I think they should make information theory, set theory and math logics required subjects in all undergraduate majors. When I asked a similar question (as posted @ 14) to a biology doctor a few years ago, he asked me if I was interested in philosophy? Only after I told him I wanted purely scientific answers, where "don't know" was an acceptable option, he invited me to visit his institute and introduced me to his research colleagues. We had a very productive meeting where I learned much from them. We had lunch together at a restaurant near their university. At one point the professor noticed I wasn't eating much, so he asked me if I didn't like the meal, to what I responded that I wasn't eating because I was listening to his interesting descriptions of the research work they do in their labs, and got so absorbed by his talk, that completely forgot about the food. He laughed out loud. He said it was the first time a non-biologist sat with him for so long, paid so much attention to his talk, and asked so many questions as I did. My budget is limited, hence I'm taking different approaches to gather information. Online searching is one of them. This forum is another approach. Again, I appreciate the time you took to write to me. If you can see my email address, feel free to write, so we can exchange more info outside this public venue. If you don't see it, I will write it.Dionisio
March 31, 2014
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What happened? Nobody wants to play ball when actual science is brought to the table? Why am I not surprised?AVS
March 31, 2014
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Yes, BA, let's just continue the cycle of misunderstanding.AVS
March 31, 2014
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something for you computer programmers to enjoy Animusic’s “Pipe Dream” Made Real - video http://makezine.com/2012/02/20/animusics-pipe-dream-made-real/ The extremely sophisticated hardware and software systems that enable life simply cannot be built by any trial and error system. In particular – it is very clear that software can never be developed one binary bit at a time. Apart from a fully functional pre-existing hardware/software system, a single bit has absolutely no meaning. I feel that if we are to preserve our scientific integrity, we must acknowledge that we have a major explanatory problem, and we need to go back to the drawing board in terms of understanding the origin of biological information. John Sanford - Inventor of the 'Gene-Gun' https://uncommondescent.com/evolution/john-sanford-accepting-darwinisms-collapse-is-a-matter-of-scientific-integrity/bornagain77
March 31, 2014
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Dionisio, on the off chance that you are being sincere in your request I will explain: Asking for a complete description of all the process that occur in the first week of development and how they evolved is absolutely absurd. Not only do we not know exactly how a lot of these things work, but what we do know would fill stacks and stacks of books. In fact they do. That's part of what the problem is with teaching you guys about evolution; we don't know a lot about how things are happening in cells currently, this makes putting together a picture of the evolution of these biological systems extremely difficult. Anyway here are some terms you can look up to get you on your path to knowledge: transcription factors, cell determination, cell differentiation, fate maps, ectoderm, endoderm, and mesoderm, gastrulation, mitosis, hox genes, and morphogens Wiki is a good resource, goodluckAVS
March 31, 2014
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Dionisio and mooseknuckle, I get where you guys are coming from, but your IT background puts you at an extreme disadvantage. We are talking about the living world here in biology, while at the surface it may seem similar to the computer world, there are a vast amount of differences. The best way I can sum it up is the fact that biology is concerned with living things, to which there is no real comparison in the non-living world.AVS
March 31, 2014
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After reading the nonsense you quoted from him, no, I did not bother to see what he says in some youtube video and I don't plan to. The complete lack of academic integrity he demonstrates in the misleading and ambiguous text was enough to make me sick. I rebutted everything he claimed in the text and since not a single person has refuted anything I have said. Joe has tried, I'll give him that. A+ for effort Joe.AVS
March 31, 2014
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Dionisio, I too develop computer software. 'Kinda gave up my 6 figure job too, but to raise the kids, not to study biology. That said, I do find the study of biology to be fascinating. Sometime AVS actually spits out something that causes me to believe that he knows something about biology. But his communication skills, and his ability to have a respectful conversation make dialog with him useless. This whole evolutionary theory thing causes my software developer sense to cringe. I recognise DNA as, well, source code. There seems to be a central processor in there which tracks through the DNA, finds a start codon, reads triplets, and assembles protein. That all makes sense. I also recognize proteins as, well, parts. They are intricate like the parts of any machine. Like the parts of a machine, some are not all that intricate, not all that precise. Like other machine parts, incredible precision, incredible material properties, etc. are all critical. As such, a gene appears to be most like the instructions sent to a cnc mill. Change the code, get a very different part. The idea that one gene, one piece of source code, could render 18,000 different parts is rather incredible to consider. The closest analogy I have found in my source code is the universal search or universal sort functions which take a comparator function as a parameter. Because there can be many comparator functions, the one universal sort function can sort differently in different contexts. Where evolution looks whacked in the head is when we look at making software one change at a time. Each change must work at least as well as the pre-changed version. If I were coding a cnc machine, I can't fathom making individual changes in one part, and having the machine work at least as well as its well tuned predecessor. But then the theory gets really weird. The theory says that random bunches of text periodically gets a start codon at its start by accident. The cnc machine is then run with the resulting code until a stop codon is encountered (about 100 steps down the road.) The resultant part just happens to be a part that makes the machine better. These orphan genes are not painfully rare. They make up as much as 10% of genes in some organism. Yes, 10% of the genes in organism A will be unique to that organism over another species in the same genus. Yup, this just happens. Nope. No, this kind of data is an absolute Darwin killer. Dionisio, if you are who you describe yourself to be then this post makes a lot of sense to you.Moose Dr
March 31, 2014
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AVS, seeing as how disrespectful you are to people who disagree with you, I'm getting to the point of not really caring to read what you have to say, save for to get the overall gist to refute,,, but anyways this video in the OP must have slipped your notice,, Body Plans Are Not Mapped-Out by the DNA Jonathan Wells - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meR8Hk5q_EMbornagain77
March 31, 2014
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AVS @ 32
Thank you Dionisio, I am hereby appointing you as my editor in chief. Stick to attacking how I write things and not what I actually wrote though please, I don’t want you embarrassing yourself.
You have not answered my questions @ 14. Give up? "Don't know" would count as an acceptable answer. However, you probable know the answer, but just forgot to reply. Right? Or maybe got too busy answering other comments? Remember. In my case, I really want to know the information I'm asking for. I'm trying to develop educational software using computer games technology, but lack the science part of the picture. I know many folks here, including you, can give me a hand with this. So please, let's get serious and focus in on the right stuff. Can we stop all the childish arguments and decently exchange information? Thank you.Dionisio
March 31, 2014
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BA! Did you not read my comment to you? We're not even talking about body plans. You're on the wrong post, my friend. You should try reading and thinking before you post, I know, there's a first for everything right?AVS
March 31, 2014
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That would be when one exon is used and not another? Yeah, that has nothing to do with "the very last exon." Unless you suspect I am a mind reader and can understand what you even mean by that.AVS
March 31, 2014
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Of related note to 'top down' body plan formation:
What Do Organisms Mean? Stephen L. Talbott - Winter 2011 Excerpt: Harvard biologist Richard Lewontin once described how you can excise the developing limb bud from an amphibian embryo, shake the cells loose from each other, allow them to reaggregate into a random lump, and then replace the lump in the embryo. A normal leg develops. Somehow the form of the limb as a whole is the ruling factor, redefining the parts according to the larger pattern. Lewontin went on to remark: "Unlike a machine whose totality is created by the juxtaposition of bits and pieces with different functions and properties, the bits and pieces of a developing organism seem to come into existence as a consequence of their spatial position at critical moments in the embryo’s development. Such an object is less like a machine than it is like a language whose elements... take unique meaning from their context.[3]",,, http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/what-do-organisms-mean An Electric Face: A Rendering Worth a Thousand Falsifications - September 2011 - video and article Excerpt: The video suggests that bioelectric signals presage the morphological development of the face. It also, in an instant, gives a peak at the phenomenal processes at work in biology. As the lead researcher said, “It’s a jaw dropper.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VULjzX__OM http://darwins-god.blogspot.com/2011/09/electric-face-rendering-worth-thousand.html
bornagain77
March 31, 2014
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Really, you have never even heard of mutually exclusive exons?Jul3s
March 31, 2014
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I'm pretty sure you are recalling incorrectly, Jules. Cmon guys, I need more than vague assertions that have no basis in reality.AVS
March 31, 2014
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And it produces a different protein, Joe. I'm not sure what your point was. Try to make a point when you post and not just make single ambiguous statements that demonstrate your insecurities in talking about biology in such detail.AVS
March 31, 2014
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Some exons are sometimes left out. This is always the very last exon if I recall correctly.Jul3s
March 31, 2014
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AVS @ 23 I spend a few months in Europe and a few months in the Eastern US every year. Have close relatives in both places. Perhaps the term 'commute' was an exaggeration, because I do the traveling only once a year. Anyway, you don't have to believe my story, which is completely irrelevant. There's a most relevant story we have to believe in order to be reconciled with our Maker. But that's up to you.Dionisio
March 31, 2014
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Body plans? Body plans BA? Nowhere in the post or my comments is body plan mentioned. Oh, are you confusing this post with the more recent post about this crackpot? Yeah, you are huh. In your zeal to copy and paste your typical BS, you got completely confused as to what was going on. Did you forget to take your meds today BA?AVS
March 31, 2014
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If exons are left out that alters the amino acid sequence.Joe
March 31, 2014
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Another problem with his sentence is that he leaves it at "sequence." Which sequence? The RNA or the amino acid? The majority of what he writes is written so ambiguously it makes it easy to argue from his standpoint. He, and you and your friends on here, can argue exactly what he meant however you see fit.AVS
March 31, 2014
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Upright, I thought you were smarter than that. Cmon. Johnny's argument is that the DNA sequence that codes for protein is altered, it is not. The protein coding sequence remains the same, while non-coding regions are spliced out. He is trying to convince readers that the protein's amino acid sequence is frequently altered from what the genome sequence is. This is a huge overstatement.AVS
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