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“Liar, liar, pants on fire”? Ten Tough Questions for Professor Dawkins.

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For several years now, Professor Richard Dawkins, the renowned evolutionary biologist and author of The God Delusion, has refused to debate the topic of God’s existence with the philosopher and Christian apologist, Professor William Lane Craig. That is Professor Dawkins’ privilege; he is under no obligation to debate with anyone. Until recently, Dawkins’ favorite reason for refusing to face off against Professor William Lane Craig was that Craig was nothing more than a professional debater. But now, in an article in The Guardian (20 October 2011) entitled, Why I refuse to debate with William Lane Craig, Richard Dawkins leads off by firing this salvo: “This Christian ‘philosopher’ is an apologist for genocide. I would rather leave an empty chair than share a platform with him.”

In the same article, Professor Dawkins savagely castigates William Lane Craig for his willingness to justify “genocides ordered by the God of the Old Testament”. According to Dawkins, “Most churchmen these days wisely disown the horrific genocides ordered by the God of the Old Testament” – unlike Craig, who argues that “the Canaanites were debauched and sinful and therefore deserved to be slaughtered.” Dawkins then quotes William Lane Craig as justifying the slaughter on the grounds that: (i) if these children had been allowed to live, they would have turned the Israelites towards serving the evil Canaanite gods; and (ii) the children who were slaughtered would have gone to Heaven instantly when they died, so God did them no wrong in taking their lives. Dawkins triumphantly concludes:

Would you shake hands with a man who could write stuff like that? Would you share a platform with him? I wouldn’t, and I won’t. Even if I were not engaged to be in London on the day in question, I would be proud to leave that chair in Oxford eloquently empty.

Professor Dawkins, allow me to briefly introduce myself. My name is Vincent Torley (my Web page is here), and I have a Ph.D. in philosophy. I’m an Intelligent Design proponent who also believes that modern life-forms are descended from a common ancestor that lived around four billion years ago. I’m an occasional contributor to the Intelligent Design Website, Uncommon Descent. Apart from that, I’m nobody of any consequence.

Professor Dawkins, I have ten charges to make against you, and they relate to apparent cases of lying, hypocrisy and moral inconsistency on your part. Brace yourself. I’ve listed the charges for the benefits of people reading this post.

My Ten Charges against Professor Richard Dawkins

1. Professor Dawkins has apparently lied to his own readers at the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science. In a recent post (dated 1 May 2011) he stated that he “didn’t know quite how evil [William Lane Craig’s] theology is” until atheist blogger Greta Christina alerted him to Craig’s views in an article she wrote on 25 April 2011, when in fact, Dawkins had already read Professor Craig’s “staggeringly awful” essay on the slaughter of the Canaanites and blogged about it in his personal forum (http://forum.richarddawkins.net), three years earlier, on 21 April 2008. In other words, Professor Dawkins’ alleged shock at recently discovering Craig’s “evil” views turns out to have been feigned: he knew about these views some years ago.

2. Professor Dawkins has recently maligned Professor William Lane Craig as a “fundamentalist nutbag” who isn’t even a real philosopher and whose only claim to fame is that he is a professional debater, but his own statements about Craig back in 2008 completely contradict these assertions. Moreover, Dawkins’ characterization of Craig as a “fundamentalist nutbag” is particularly unjust, given that Professor Craig has admitted that he’s quite willing to change his mind on the slaughter of the Canaanites, if proven wrong. Although Professor Craig upholds Biblical inerrancy, he does so provisionally: he says it’s possible that the Bible might be sometimes wrong on moral matters, and furthermore, he acknowledges that the Canaanite conquest might not have even happened, as an historical event. That certainly doesn’t sound like the writings of a “nutbag” to me.

3. Professor Dawkins says that he refuses to share a platform with William Lane Craig, because of his views on the slaughter of the Canaanites, but he has already debated someone who holds substantially the same views as Craig on the slaughter of the Canaanites. On 23 October 1996, Dawkins debated Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, who also believes that the slaughter of the Canaanites was morally justified under the circumstances at the time (see here and here). What’s more, in 2006, Dawkins appeared in a television panel with Professor Richard Swinburne, who holds the same view. Dawkins might reply that Swinburne did not make his views on the slaughter of the Canaanites public until 2011, but as I shall argue below, he can hardly make the same excuse about not knowing Rabbi Boteach’s views. If he did not know, then he was extraordinarily naive.

4. Professor Dawkins refuses on principle to share a platform with William Lane Craig because of his views on the slaughter of the Canaanites, yet he is perfectly willing to share a platform with atheists whose moral opinions are far more horrendous: Dan Barker, who says that child rape could be moral if it were absolutely necessary in order to save humanity; Dr. Sam Harris, who says that pushing an innocent man into the path of an oncoming train is OK, if it is necessary in order to save a greater number of human lives; and Professor Peter Singer, who believes that sex with animals is not intrinsically wrong, if both parties consent.

5. Professor Dawkins refuses to share a platform with William Lane Craig, who holds that God commanded the Israelites to slaughter Canaanite babies whom He subsequently recompensed with eternal life in the hereafter. However, he is quite happy to share a platform with Professor P. Z. Myers, who doesn’t even regard newborn babies as people with a right to life. (See here for P.Z. Myers’ original post, here for one reader’s comment and here for P. Z. Myers’ reply, in which he makes his own views plain.) Nor does Professor Peter Singer, whom Dawkins interviewed back in 2009, regard newborn babies as people with a right to life. (See this article.)

6. Apparently Professor Dawkins himself does not believe that a newborn human baby is a person with the same right to life that you or I have, and does not believe that the killing of a healthy newborn baby is just as wrong as the act of killing you or me. For he sees nothing intrinsically wrong with the killing of a one- or two-year-old baby suffering from a horrible incurable disease, that meant it was going to die in agony in later life (see this video at 24:12). He also claims in The God Delusion (Boston & New York: Houghton Mifflin Co., 2006, p. 293) that the immorality of killing an individual is tied to the degree of suffering it is capable of. By that logic, it must follow that killing a healthy newborn baby, whose nervous system is still not completely developed, is not as bad as killing an adult.

7. In his article in The Guardian (20 October 2011) condemning William Lane Craig, Professor Dawkins fails to explain exactly why it would be wrong under all circumstances for God (if He existed) to take the life of an innocent human baby, if that baby was compensated with eternal life in the hereafter. In fact, as I will demonstrate below, if we look at the most common arguments against killing the innocent, then it is impossible to construct a knock-down case establishing that this act of God would be wrong under all possible circumstances. Strange as it may seem, there are always some possible circumstances we can envisage, in which it might be right for God to act in this way.

8. Professor Dawkins declines to say whether he agrees with some of his fans and followers, who consider the God of the Old Testament to be morally equivalent to Hitler (see here and here for examples). However, the very comparison is odious, for in the same Old Testament books which Dawkins condemns, God exhorts the Israelites: “Do not seek revenge”; “Love your neighbor as yourself” and: “The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 19:18, 33-34, NIV.) That certainly doesn’t sound like Hitler to me – and I’ve personally visited Auschwitz and Birkenau. I wonder if Professor Dawkins has.

9. Dawkins singles out Professor William Lane Craig for condemnation as a “fundamentalist nutbag”, but he fails to realize that Professor William Lane Craig’s views on the slaughter of the Canaanites were shared by St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin, the Bible commentator Matthew Henry, and John Wesley, as well as some modern Christian philosophers of eminent standing, such as Richard Swinburne, whom he appeared on a television panel with in 2006. Is he prepared to call all these people “nutbags” too? That’s a lot of crazy people, I must say.

10. Unlike the late Stephen Jay Gould (who maintained that the experiment would be just about the most unethical thing he could imagine), Professor Dawkins believes that the creation of a hybrid between humans and chimps “might be a very moral thing to do”, so long as it was not exploited or treated like a circus freak (see this video at 40:33), although he later concedes that if only one were created, it might get lonely (perhaps a group of hybrids would be OK, then?) Dawkins has destroyed his own moral credibility by making such a ridiculous statement. How can he possibly expect us to take him seriously when he talks about ethics, from now on?

Professor Dawkins, I understand that you are a very busy man. Nevertheless, I should warn you that a failure to answer these charges will expose you to charges of apparent lying, character assassination, public hypocrisy, as well as an ethical double-standard on your part. The choice is yours.

Read the rest of the article here.

Comments
Continuing... #6 "Intrinsically wrong" is problematic from a rationalist point of view. "Wrong" as a value judgment may obtain, but it betrays a religious kind of dogma that defeats that very reasoning to suppose "intrinsically" applies. That's a basically amoral way of thinking about, one which imputes "wrong" as only the dictates of power -- an omnipotent deity, for example. "It's intrinsic because God says it is" actually negates itself as an assertion, right? Anyway, I'm not convinced by this position, but I can see the reasoning the coherence behind the argument. I think the legal personhood reasonably assigned to a newborn at birth establishes an egalitarian minimum life interest, but that's a legal and social imputation. In some sense that specifically sets those kinds of considerations aside (hard to do as a practical matter), Dawkins et al have a valid point, a reasonable case to make. Again, though, WLC is from Mars on this. He's not even on the playing field of reason on this. #7. I am not Dawkins, but that's not even a speed bump of a challenge to dismiss. "Eternal life" is not facts-in-evidence even if we DO wonder what kind of compensation it might be against the taking of one's life in the real world, but no matter, that: it's not any kind of compensation even if eternal life WERE real. The only way we should find ourselves susceptible to that lame appeal is if we are subscribing to the same divine command ethics as Craig (yikes!). #8. That the comparison is apt as it is, even if your defense is accepted, should be enough to sear the conscience of religious people who accept the OT as historical, and morally authoritative. That an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent deity surpassed Hitler in this particular or that is the very picture of "damning with faint praise", isn't it. (Calling Godwin's law on this basic line of discourse in advance!). There's just not much available to you if you have to defend the slaughter of an entire people, and your "moral authority" punishes his chosen people because they weren't systematic and complete enough in killing the children, women, and their animals, etc. That's the god Craig choose to worship, though, so... #9. I don't think "nutbags" is workable in most cases. "Nutbaggery" is highly applicable, though. It's not ad hominem, but applied to the idea, and leaves ample room for recognizing and appreciating other views and positions which may be brilliant, cogent, penetrating, and performative. But support for the slaughter of the Midianites, for example, is just impossible to arrive at in a reasonable, human-interested way. It's "moral nutbaggery" of the most rarified kind. That doesn't mean Aquinas wasn't brilliant and lucid on many other points; manifestly he was. But if he is one to sign up for WLC's divine command horrors, that's a severe demerit for him. There's some ideas in James Watson's history that I think are charitably labeled as "crackpot" and "nutbaggery". But that doesn't diminish the brilliance of his meritorious work on DNA. People who are right on in some areas can be and sometimes are just completely whack in other areas. #10. I can understand the concern for being "one of a kind", and lonely/isolated, etc. But apart from that (and perhaps that would be addressed by a "hybrid population" of humans/apes), I understand the emotional reaction, but do not see the ethical case as a categorical imperative to avoid such a thing. Perhaps there is a case to be made, but I'm not aware of it. This kind of complaint regularly strikes me as very much like the appeal from those who "just know" that homosexuality" is "unnatural" and "inherently wrong". It traffics only on the appeal to some perceived cultural consensus or social unanimity, in lieu of making a case on the ethical merits. If Neanderthals and some proto-humans were to have produced offspring, was that unethical back 500,000 years ago? If the biology works, it works, right? I think this is a particular horror for those with religious intuitions because it's a huge cognitive dissonance for the exceptional status reserved for humans. Not just bigger-brained, but ontologically superior, having been endowed with the imago dei, etc. in some sense that transcends just more advanced physiological capabilities.eigenstate
October 26, 2011
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My take on your charges, as one who's followed Dawkins and Craig for years: #1. True enough. I actually remember that thread now at RD.net, but in Dawkins defense, I know I had read the divine command theory nonsense he defends way back then, but had forgotten that was part of WLC's "official beliefs". He sticks to his "big five" points, or "big three" now, more lately, as in his recent debates with Sam Harris or Stephen Law. I was again surprised, and taken aback again at the hollowed out conscience of this guy. That takes guts to baptize genocide like he does. I don't believe in any devil any more than any god, but WLC is an advocate for the devil if there is one, on that point, in the most profound sense. #2. Conflation of two senses of the label. Inerrancy IS nutbaggery by any reasonable review, as far as I can see (and inerrancy is in NO way normative for Christianity). That is a belief that is impossible to ground as a belief outside of fundamentalism, fundamentalism as naked dogma; the Bible doesn't even make that claim about itself. But I understand Dawkins' earlier point to be salient, even so. Inerrancy may be nutbaggery, but WLC is NOT a "fringe" guy, not a fundamentalist in the "Fred Phelps is a fundamentalist" sense. WLC is not the guy in the loincloth wandering the streets as some kind of freak of Christianity. He's the apologist in the Armani suit who is something of a "rock star" in evangelical and even some non-evangelical circles. On the one charge, Dawkins is pointing out that WLC is not fringe, within the broad circle of evangelical Christianity. On the other case, he's pointing out that conceptually, anyone who subscribes to inerrancy is a "fundamentalist", no matter how popular or not that it. #3. Not even strong enough to be a weak charge. "Nine charges" may not be as nice as a round number, but this one doesn't even get off the ground. I should point out here that I don't think Dawkins, or any serious academic should deign to debate WLC, but I think Dawkins' excuse here is disingenuous at best. Right decision, wrong (stated) reason. I don't find it even passingly credible that Dawkins is really unable to get past that view long enough for a debate. But it's something between pedantic and näive to pretend that there isn't a lot more going on here in this disagreement than the God-commander slaughter of innocents in the OT. #4. I think that is perfectly principled, assuming, arguendo, that Dawkins' stated reason is the actual one. I don't subscribe to one or more of those positions you listed, but I can see a reasonable path to each -- a poor conclusion, in my view, but arrive at on basically reasonable grounds (ethics is necessarily a balance of competing interests, so much of this is intrinsic to the enterprise). WLC's divine command ethics are wholly different from this, and share no such reasonable foundation. This is a terrible moral position arrived at by the evil, deliberate choice of superstition and moral abdication. That doesn't mean Singer's position is right, but WLC's position is execrable in ways none of the others is, a perfect example of what can happen from abandoning reason as a governing principle, rather than a lawyer to rationalize superstitions. #5. See #4. WLC's position is categorically inferior due to its eschewing of rational analysis of the competing interests (and in Myers' case, knowledge regarding biology and physiology). This charge is a fail. It's not just a matter of saying "well, I find X as objectionable as you find Y". The first principles of WLC's approach are inferior, anti-reason. Remember he's the guy who doesn't need the evidence to weigh for any of this. The philo-mumbo-jumbo is just his day job. He doesn't believe in God because of the Kalam. He just knows god form unshakeable, incorrigible mystical experience. That's how one goes of the rails in the most criminal way (I'm pro-life, and do not approve of Myers' position, but I understand it to be responsibly engaged as a position, unlike Craig's). Continued anon...eigenstate
October 26, 2011
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My question is not whether it is wrong for God to kill people, but whether it is wrong for people to kill entire nations because they want their land. Of course God would know that human life is presumably worth nothing at all compared to eternal life. From that point of view one wonders why bother with it in the first place. But when another person starts telling me that God ordered me to kill women, infants and children, I'd say I want to hear it directly.Petrushka
October 26, 2011
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So, does WLC justify the slaughter or not ?Graham
October 26, 2011
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4. Professor Dawkins refuses on principle to share a platform with William Lane Craig because of his views on the slaughter of the Canaanites, yet he is perfectly willing to share a platform with atheists whose moral opinions are far more horrendous: Dan Barker, who says that child rape could be moral if it were absolutely necessary in order to save humanity; Dr. Sam Harris, who says that pushing an innocent man into the path of an oncoming train is OK, if it is necessary in order to save a greater number of human lives; and Professor Peter Singer, who believes that sex with animals is not intrinsically wrong, if both parties consent.
Really? These are *worse* than genocide? The first two are obviously just highly contrived "no good answer" situations used as thought experiments in philosophy classes. Arguing that the less-worse answer is the one where fewer people die is the answer given by a fair number of people in surveys, and it is definitely not equivalent to genocide or the endorsement of genocide. And, beastiality is wrong, but wronger than *genocide*? Gimme a break.
5. Professor Dawkins refuses to share a platform with William Lane Craig, who holds that God commanded the Israelites to slaughter Canaanite babies whom He subsequently recompensed with eternal life in the hereafter.
Let's not forget about the slaughtered women and children, too. Did they get eternal life? And, would you care to cite the Bible verse that proves that God did this? And anyway, the argument that killing people is fine if they will get eternal life leads to very bad places. It would be much simpler to admit that this is probably a legendary expansion on an ancient battle, with the story exaggerated in the retelling -- both the number of deaths and the alleged endorsement of the activity by God. Why not go that route?NickMatzke_UD
October 26, 2011
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Talk about throwing down the gauntlet.bbigej
October 26, 2011
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