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No evidence for God’s existence, you say? A response to Larry Moran

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Despite my disagreements with Professor Larry Moran over the years, I respect him as a fair-minded, intelligent and generally sensible person. Recently, however, he said something which can only be described as rather silly. In a post titled, Evidence for the existence of god(s), he wrote:

I am always on the lookout for evidence that some sort of god actually exists. The reason I’m an atheist is because I’ve never seen any evidence that’s the least bit convincing. I keep asking for evidence but nobody ever supplies any.

Now, had Professor Moran merely remarked that he found the evidence for God’s existence less than compelling, or unsatisfactory, he would have had a leg to stand on. But he went much further: he declared it to be not in the least bit convincing, which can only mean that he sets its evidential value at zero. He then added: “I keep asking for evidence but nobody ever supplies any.” The only conclusion I can draw is that Professor Moran really thinks there is no evidence for God. This interpretation is confirmed by a remark he makes in another post, where he declares that “[s]o far, the scientific way of knowing has uncovered no evidence of anything that exists outside of the natural world” (emphasis mine – VJT), although he allows that science may discover evidence of the supernatural, “at some time in the future.”

In his recent post, Professor Moran then proceeds to enumerate ten items of evidence listed by Barry Arrington in a post titled, Astonishingly Stupid Things Atheists Say, before throwing the floor open for discussion. According to Larry Moran, none of the items below counts as evidence – let alone good evidence – for the existence of God, or a supernatural reality:

  • The fine tuning of the universe.
  • The moral sense.
  • The fact that a natural universe cannot logically have a natural cause.
  • The fact that there is something instead of nothing.
  • The overwhelming odds against the Darwinian story being true (estimated at 10^-1018 by atheist Eugene Koonin).
  • The irreducible complexity of biological systems.
  • The vast amounts of complex computer-like code stored in DNA.
  • The miracles that have been reported throughout history.
  • My subjective self-awareness.
  • The fact that we do not even have plausible speculations to account for the origin of life.

In this post, I won’t be saying much about arguments for God based on the moral sense and subjective self-awareness, because (a) in my experience, attempting to convince atheists of God’s existence on the basis of these arguments is a waste of time, and (b) the arguments need to be formulated very carefully in order for them to work. I”ll just say a little about these arguments, at the end.

That leaves eight arguments, which I’ll address in my own order. I”ll begin with the scientific arguments.

The fine-tuning of the universe (Argument 1)

I’ve written a lot on the fine-tuning argument, and my recent post, Professor Krauss Objects, explains why I think that the various scientific objections to the argument – including the multiverse hypothesis – all fail miserably. I’m not going to repeat myself here. But I will say that anyone who could read Dr. Robin Collins’ essay, essay entitled, The Teleological Argument: An Exploration of the Fine-Tuning of the Universe (in The Blackwell Companion to Natural Theology, edited by William Lane Craig and J. P. Moreland, 2009, Blackwell Publishing Ltd.), and say that there is no evidence for God is really being rather uncharitable.

I might also mention that the late Christopher Hitchens, who was a self-described anti-theist, had a healthy respect for the argument from fine-tuning. In a post titled, Fine Tuning the Multiverse Theory, Christian apologist Peter May narrates the story of an amicable discussion between the late Christopher Hitchens and pastor Douglas Wilson, after one of their debates:

Hitchens raised the question as to which was the strongest argument used against atheists and he had no difficulty in identifying it. “The fine-tuning argument we all agree is the most intriguing. It is not trivial – we all say that.” Here he is clearly speaking for his New Atheist friends. Hitchens is emphatic and repeats the point, “We all agree about that.

Christopher Hitchens considered the fine-tuning argument to be the best evidence for God, and he also regarded it as intriguing – even if he himself was not convinced by it. Professor Moran, on the other hand, thinks that the argument doesn’t even deserve to be called “evidence,” since he writes: “I keep asking for evidence but nobody ever supplies any.” I’ll let my readers judge whether Professor Moran is being unreasonably fussy, when it comes to what qualifies as “evidence.”

The origin of life (Arguments 5 and 10)

In his post, Barry Arrington refers to the work of evolutionary biologist Dr. Eugene Koonin, whose peer-reviewed article, The Cosmological Model of Eternal Inflation and the Transition from Chance to Biological Evolution in the History of Life, Biology Direct 2 (2007): 15, doi:10.1186/1745-6150-2-15, is available online. Using a “toy model” which makes some very generous assumptions, Dr. Koonin estimates that the odds of even a very basic life-form – a coupled replication-translation system – emerging in the observable universe are 1 in 1 followed by 1,018 zeroes. Dr. Koonin evades this difficulty by positing a multiverse – a “solution” which fails on no less than five grounds, which I discussed in detail in my recent post, Professor Krauss Objects.

Dr. Koonin’s paper passed a panel of four reviewers, including one from Harvard University, who wrote:

In this work, Eugene Koonin estimates the probability of arriving at a system capable of undergoing Darwinian evolution and comes to a cosmologically small number…;

The context of this article is framed by the current lack of a complete and plausible scenario for the origin of life. Koonin specifically addresses the front-runner model, that of the RNA-world, where self-replicating RNA molecules precede a translation system. He notes that in addition to the difficulties involved in achieving such a system is the paradox of attaining a translation system through Darwinian selection. That this is indeed a bona-fide paradox is appreciated by the fact that, without a shortage [of] effort, a plausible scenario for translation evolution has not been proposed to date. There have been other models for the origin of life, including the ground-breaking Lipid-world model advanced by Segrè, Lancet and colleagues (reviewed in EMBO Reports (2000), 1(3), 217–222), but despite much ingenuity and effort, it is fair to say that all origin of life models suffer from astoundingly low probabilities of actually occurring

…[F]uture work may show that starting from just a simple assembly of molecules, non-anthropic principles can account for each step along the rise to the threshold of Darwinian evolution. Based upon the new perspective afforded to us by Koonin this now appears unlikely. (Emphases mine – VJT.)

Think about that. A leading evolutionary biologist has calculated that the odds of even a very basic life-form – a coupled replication-translation system – emerging in the observable universe are 1 in 1 followed by 1,018 zeroes. To avoid the theistic implications of his argument, he posits a multiverse – a solution which, as I’ve argued, is shot through with holes. And Professor Moran thinks this doesn’t even constitute evidence for God’s existence, let alone proof? Frankly, I’m gobsmacked.

I’d also like to quote from an interview with Anthony Flew, who was arguably the leading philosophical atheist of the 20th century, and who converted to deism in 2004, when he was 81. Here’s a short excerpt from a 2004 interview between Flew and Christian philosopher Gary Habermas:

HABERMAS: … Which arguments for God’s existence did you find most persuasive?

FLEW: I think that the most impressive arguments for God’s existence are those that are supported by recent scientific discoveries. I’ve never been much impressed by the kalam cosmological argument, and I don’t think it has gotten any stronger recently. However, I think the argument to Intelligent Design is enormously stronger than it was when I first met it.

HABERMAS: So you like arguments such as those that proceed from big bang cosmology and fine tuning arguments?

FLEW: Yes…

HABERMAS: So of the major theistic arguments, such as the cosmological, teleological, moral, and ontological, the only really impressive ones that you take to be decisive are the scientific forms of teleology?

FLEW: Absolutely. It seems to me that Richard Dawkins constantly overlooks the fact that Darwin himself, in the fourteenth chapter of The Origin of Species, pointed out that his whole argument began with a being which already possessed reproductive powers. This is the creature the evolution of which a truly comprehensive theory of evolution must give some account. Darwin himself was well aware that he had not produced such an account. It now seems to me that the findings of more than fifty years of DNA research have provided materials for a new and enormously powerful argument to design.

Finally, I’d like to quote the testimony of Professor Richard Smalley (1943-2005), winner of the 1996 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. Towards the end of his life, Dr. Richard Smalley became an Old Earth creationist, after reading the books “Origins of Life” and “Who Was Adam?”, written by Dr. Hugh Ross (an astrophysicist) and Dr. Fazale Rana (a biochemist). Dr. Smalley explained his change of heart as follows:

Evolution has just been dealt its death blow. After reading “Origins of Life”, with my background in chemistry and physics, it is clear evolution could not have occurred. The new book, “Who Was Adam?”, is the silver bullet that puts the evolutionary model to death. (Emphasis mine – VJT.)

“Puts the evolutionary model to death”?! These are pretty strong words for a Nobel scientist. And yet, despite this testimony from a Nobel Prize-winning chemist, Professor Moran thinks that there is no evidence for the existence of a supernatural Designer of life.

The irreducibility of biochemical systems (Argument 6)

I’d like to quote from ID advocate Casy Luskin’s article, Leading Biologists Marvel at the “Irreducible Complexity” of the Ribosome, but Prefer Evolution-of-the-Gaps over at Evolution News and Views. The article is about a roundtable symposium on the origin of life, entitled, “Life: What A Concept!”, which was held in 2008 and hosted by John Brockman. The participants included some very prominent people in the field of origin of life research and genomics, such as Freeman Dyson, J. Craig Venter, George Church, Robert Shapiro, Dimitar Sasselov, and Seth Lloyd. Here’s what George Church, Professor of Genetics at Harvard Medical School and Director of the Center for Computational Genetics, had to say about the complexity of the ribosome:

The ribosome, both looking at the past and at the future, is a very significant structure — it’s the most complicated thing that is present in all organisms. Craig does comparative genomics, and you find that almost the only thing that’s in common across all organisms is the ribosome. And it’s recognizable; it’s highly conserved. So the question is, how did that thing come to be? And if I were to be an intelligent design defender, that’s what I would focus on; how did the ribosome come to be?

Craig Venter then suggested that by sequencing the genomes of more organisms, scientists might be able to reconstruct a primitive precursor ribosome, but Church was doubtful:

But isn’t it the case that, if we take all the life forms we have so far, isn’t the minimum for the ribosome about 53 proteins and 3 polynucleotides? And hasn’t that kind of already reached a plateau where adding more genomes doesn’t reduce that number of proteins?

The conversation that ensued reveals the frustration of the participants, who are all convinced naturalists. Interestingly, the term “irreducible complexity” crops up:

VENTER: Below ribosomes, yes: you certainly can’t get below that. But you have to have self-replication.

CHURCH: But that’s what we need to do — otherwise they’ll call it irreducible complexity. If you say you can’t get below a ribosome, we’re in trouble, right? We have to find a ribosome that can do its trick with less than 53 proteins.

VENTER: In the RNA world, you didn’t need ribosomes.

CHURCH: But we need to construct that. Nobody has constructed a ribosome that works well without proteins.

VENTER: Yes.

SHAPIRO: I can only suggest that a ribosome forming spontaneously has about the same probability as an eye forming spontaneously.

CHURCH: It won’t form spontaneously; we’ll do it bit by bit.

SHAPIRO: Both are obviously products of long evolution of preexisting life through the process of trial and error.

CHURCH: But none of us has recreated that any.

SHAPIRO: There must have been much more primitive ways of putting together.

CHURCH: But prove it.

I think it’s fair to conclude that the irreducible complexity (as far as we can tell) of the ribsome constitutes powerful prima facie evidence for an Intelligent Creator of the first life.

The vast amounts of computer-like code stored in DNA (Argument 7)

Let me begin with a quote from agnostic Bill Gates. Nearly twenty years ago, he wrote:

Biological information is the most important information we can discover, because over the next several decades it will revolutionize medicine. Human DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any software ever created.
(Gates, The Road Ahead, Penguin: London, Revised, 1996 p. 228)

ID advocate Casey Luskin’s article, A Response to Dr. Dawkins’ “Information Challenge” (Part 1): Specified Complexity Is the Measure of Biological Complexity over at Evolution News and Views, contains a very interesting quote from New Atheist Professor Richard Dawkins:

… [t]he machine code of the genes is uncannily computer-like. Apart from differences in jargon, the pages of a molecular biology journal might be interchanged with those of a computer engineering journal.
(River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life, pg. 17 (New York: Basic Books, 1995).)

Dawkins himself believes that processes of random mutation and unguided selection generated the information in genes. But is he right? I’d like to conclude with a quote from an article in a creationist journal by CSIRO botanist Alex Williams, titled, Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism (Journal of Creation 21(3) 2007). Some of the material in the article (including the ENCODE findings on junk DNA) remains hotly contested, but when I came across the article eight years ago, I was electrified by this passage:

The traditional understanding of DNA has recently been transformed beyond recognition. DNA does not, as we thought, carry a linear, one-dimensional, one-way, sequential code — like the lines of letters and words on this page… DNA information is overlapping – multi-layered and multi-dimensional; it reads both backwards and forwards… No human engineer has ever even imagined, let alone designed an information storage device anything like it. Moreover, the vast majority of its content is metainformation — information about how to use information. Meta-information cannot arise by chance because it only makes sense in context of the information it relates to.

Information that reads both backwards and forwards, and which is multi-layered and multi-dimensional? And meta-information too? As someone who worked for ten years as a computer programmer, I have to say that sounds like the work of an intelligent agent to me.

The argument from the total contingency of the cosmos (i.e. the modal cosmological argument, as opposed to the kalam cosmological argument) (Arguments 3 and 4)

In his original post, Barry Arrington cited as evidence for God the fact that fact that a natural universe cannot logically have a natural cause, as well as the fact that there is something instead of nothing.

Now, I imagine many atheists would have retorted, “Of course a natural universe doesn’t have a natural cause! That’s because it doesn’t have any cause! And as for why there is something rather than nothing, that’s just a brute fact. For anything that exists – God included – you could always ask why it exists.” But these objections miss the underlying point that Barry Arrington was making: the universe is totally contingent. Absolutely nothing about the universe has to be the way it is. The laws could have been different, the initial conditions could have been different, and the entities populating it could have been different. A totally contingent reality, such as our universe, cries out for an explanation.

For those readers who are looking for a good introduction to the argument from the contingency of the cosmos, I would recommend Professor Robert Koons’ Western Theism lecture notes (lectures 2 to 10, and especially lectures 6 to 10), as well as Professor Paul Herrick’s highly readable article, Job Opening: Creator of the Universe—A Reply to Keith Parsons (2009).

For those who think they know what’s wrong with the argument, I would recommend Thomist philosopher Edward Feser’s excellent blog post, So you think you understand the cosmological argument? (July 16, 2011). A few highlights:

1. The argument does NOT rest on the premise that “Everything has a cause.”

Lots of people – probably most people who have an opinion on the matter – think that the cosmological argument goes like this: Everything has a cause; so the universe has a cause; so God exists. They then have no trouble at all poking holes in it. If everything has a cause, then what caused God? …

Here’s the funny thing, though. People who attack this argument never tell you where they got it from. They never quote anyone defending it. There’s a reason for that. The reason is that none of the best-known proponents of the cosmological argument in the history of philosophy and theology ever gave this stupid argument. Not Plato, not Aristotle, not al-Ghazali, not Maimonides, not Aquinas, not Duns Scotus, not Leibniz, not Samuel Clarke, not Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, not Mortimer Adler, not William Lane Craig, not Richard Swinburne. And not anyone else either, as far as I know.

2. “What caused God?” is not a serious objection to the argument.

The cosmological argument in its historically most influential versions is not concerned to show that there is a cause of things which just happens not to have a cause. It is not interested in “brute facts” – if it were, then yes, positing the world as the ultimate brute fact might arguably be as defensible as taking God to be… What [the argument] seeks to show is that if there is to be an ultimate explanation of things, then there must be a cause of everything else which not only happens to exist, but which could not even in principle have failed to exist

So, to ask “What caused God?” really amounts to asking “What caused the thing that cannot in principle have had a cause?” … or “What imparted a sufficient reason for existence to that thing which has its sufficient reason for existence within itself and did not derive it from something else?” And none of these questions makes any sense.

3. “Why assume that the universe had a beginning?” is not a serious objection to the argument.

The main reason this is a bad objection …is that most versions of the cosmological argument do not even claim that the universe had a beginning. Aristotelian, Neo-Platonic, Thomistic, and Leibnizian cosmological arguments are all concerned to show that there must be an uncaused cause even if the universe has always existed.

4. “No one has given any reason to think that the First Cause is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good, etc.” is not a serious objection to the argument.

Aquinas in fact devotes hundreds of pages across various works to showing that a First Cause of things would have to be all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good, and so on and so forth. Other Scholastic writers and modern writers like Leibniz and Samuel Clarke also devote detailed argumentation to establishing that the First Cause would have to have the various divine attributes.

5. “The argument doesn’t prove that Christianity is true” is not a serious objection to the argument.

No one claims that the cosmological argument by itself suffices to show that Christianity is true, that Jesus of Nazareth was God Incarnate, etc. That’s not what it is intended to do.

6. “Science has shown such-and-such” is not a serious objection to (most versions of) the argument.

…[M]ost versions of the cosmological argument do not in any way depend on particular scientific claims. Rather, they start with extremely general considerations that any possible scientific theorizing must itself take for granted – for example, that there is any empirical world at all, or any world of any sort at all.

7. The argument is not a “God of the gaps” argument.

Since the point of the argument is precisely to explain (part of) what science itself must take for granted, it is not the sort of thing that could even in principle be overturned by scientific findings. For the same reason, it is not an attempt to plug some current “gap” in scientific knowledge…

The point is that the kind of criticism one might try to raise against [the argument] is simply not the kind that one might raise in the context of empirical science. It requires instead knowledge of metaphysics and philosophy more generally.

8. Hume and Kant did not have the last word on the argument. Neither has anyone else.

…I don’t think anyone who has studied the issue would deny that Elizabeth Anscombe presented a serious objection to Hume’s claim that something could conceivably come into existence without a cause. Nor is Anscombe by any means the only philosopher to have criticized Hume on this issue.

…Hume’s objection that the cosmological argument commits a fallacy of composition … assumes that the cosmological argument is concerned with explaining why the universe as a whole exists, and that is simply not true of all versions of the argument.

9. What “most philosophers” think about the argument is irrelevant.

The atheist philosopher of religion Quentin Smith maintains that “the great majority of naturalist philosophers have an unjustified belief that naturalism is true and an unjustified belief that theism (or supernaturalism) is false.” For their naturalism typically rests on nothing more than an ill-informed “hand waving dismissal of theism” which ignores “the erudite brilliance of theistic philosophizing today.” Thomists often emphasize that the argument of Aquinas’s On Being and Essence requires only the premise that something or other exists – a stone, a tree, a book, your left shoe, whatever.

Atheist Dan Linford, author of the blog article, How should one respond to the Argument from Contingency?, doesn’t think much of the sophomoric “Who made God?” objection, either:

This fails for a few different reasons.

First, we are talking about the argument from contingency. The argument from contingency argues that all of the contingent facts that there are require a non-contingent explanation. But any sort of non-contingent object that explains all of the contingent facts will not have an explanation for its existence beyond its non-contingency. It could not fail to exist.

Secondly, when we provide a scientific explanation E for some phenomenon x but we do not provide an explanation for E, often, this is not reason to reject E. For example, if we see a trail in a cloud chamber that curves a particular way in a magnetic field, an electron might be the best explanation of our observations, but it would be inappropriate to reject the electron-explanation if we were unable to answer what caused the electron. Likewise, if God is what explains the universe’s existence, yet we cannot explain God’s existence, this does not mean that we should reject theism.
Unfortunately, this last response has become quite popular since it was published in Dawkins’s God Delusion (it had previously appeared in Bertrand Russell’s Why I Am Not A Christian and in David Hume’s Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion). While it may be able to target some forms of the Cosmological Argument, it is not an appropriate response to the Argument from Contingency.

A better objection, argues Linford, is to ask the theist: “From whence did God’s reasons for creating the universe come?” If the reasons came from within God’s essence, then this means that God had no choice but to create, since God’s essence exists necessarily. But if they didn’t come from within God, then in creating the universe, God may have been acting freely, but He/She was also acting arbitrarily and capriciously. However, this objection has already been answered in Professor Paul Herrick’s highly readable article, Job Opening: Creator of the Universe—A Reply to Keith Parsons (2009):

…[W]e typically account for the free choices of others in terms of the reasons they have for their choices (along with their powers or capacities to implement those reasons), and that when we cite good reasons for a choice, along with adequate powers or capacities, we typically attain a rationally satisfying explanation for the choice, an explanation that makes sense of the choice and ends the questioning (with respect to the choice). Look and see for yourself: This is how we reach explanatory finality with respect to choices; this is how we make choices intelligible.

Now this is important: Unlike scientific explanations, which do cite sufficient conditions, notice that a personalistic explanation — an explanation of a choice — does not cite a causally sufficient condition for the choice. Common sense says that the fact that the father loves his children, that he knows how to make a sled, that he knows that a sled would be good for them, and so on, that does not in itself constitute a sufficient causal condition for his choice to build the sled; these factors do not completely cause him to build a sled, for (at least from the common-sense standpoint) we normally suppose that the father could have had those very same reasons and yet could have chosen not to act on them. Likewise, he could have had those same powers and could have chosen not to put them into effect. This is what we normally mean when we say that under the circumstances, he could have chosen otherwise. And this is why we normally suppose that the reasons and capacities of a chooser are not in themselves sufficient for the choice; we suppose that by themselves they do not guarantee that the choice actually gets made. Indeed, isn’t this why we give the father moral credit for making the choice — because he didn’t have to, that is, under the circumstances, he could have stayed inside to watch TV instead? Again, a personalistic explanation explains a choice not by citing a sufficient condition for the choice, but by making sense of the choice (by making the choice rationally intelligible), and it does this by making sense of the choice in terms of good reasons.

No evidence for God, you say? I can only ask: what is your alternative hypothesis?

Miracles (Argument 8)

Finally, we come to miracles. Because miracles are events that take place in the world, the investigation of miracles certainly falls within the purview of science.

The philosophical arguments against the possibility and/or credibility of miracles, have been dealt with by Dr. Timothy McGrew in his article, Miracles in The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, so I won’t waste time on them here.

Professor Moran will want to see good evidence of miracles, so I’ll confine myself to one case: the 17th century Italian saint, Joseph of Cupertino, who was seen levitating well above the ground and even flying for some distance through the air, on literally thousands of occasions, by believers and skeptics alike. The saint was the phenomenon of the 17th century. Those who are curious might like to have a look at his biography by D. Bernini (Vita Del Giuseppe da Copertino, 1752, Roma: Ludovico Tinassi and Girolamo Mainardi). The philosopher David Hume, who was notoriously skeptical of miracle claims, never even mentions St. Joseph of Cupertino in his writings. Funny, that.

The evidence for St. Joseph’s flights is handily summarized in an article, The flying saint (The Messenger of Saint Anthony, January 2003), by Renzo Allegri.

The earthly existence of Friar Joseph of Cupertino was rich in charismatic gifts. However, the phenomenon which attracted the most attention occurred during his disconcerting ecstasies. Chronicles recount, as we have already said, that he need only hear the name of Jesus, of the Virgin Mary, or of a saint before going into an ecstasy. He used to let out a wail and float in the air, remaining suspended between heaven and earth for hours. An inadmissible phenomenon for our modern mentality.

“To doubt is understandable,” Fr. Giulio Berettoni, rector of the Shrine of St. Joseph of Cupertino in Osimo tells me “but it isn’t justifiable. If we take a serious look at the saint’s life from a historical point of view, then we see that we cannot question his ecstasies. There are numerous witness accounts. They began to be documented in 1628, and this continued until Joseph’s death in 1663, i.e. for 35 years. In certain periods, the phenomenon is recorded to have taken place more than once a day. It has been calculated that Joseph’s ‘ecstatic flights’ took place at least 1,000 to 1,500 times in his lifetime, perhaps even more, and that they were witnessed by thousands of people. They were the phenomenon of the century. They were so sensational and so public that they attracted attention from curious people from all walks of life, Italians and foreigners, believers and unbelievers, simple folk, but also scholars, scientists, priests, bishops and cardinals. They continued to occur in every situation, in whatever church in which the saint prayed or celebrated Mass. It is impossible to doubt such a sensational and public phenomenon which repeated itself over time. It is also worth noting that these events occurred in the seventeenth century, the time of the Inquisition. Amazing events, miracles and healings were labelled magic and the protagonists ended up undergoing a trial by the civil and religious Inquisition. In fact, St. Joseph of Cupertino underwent this very fate because of his ecstasies. But he was subjected to various trials without ever being condemned; final proof that these are sensational events, but also real, extraordinary and concrete facts.” (Emphases mine – VJT.)

In view of the fact that miracle claims can be found in many different religions, it would be imprudent to cite St. Joseph’s levitations and flights in support of any one particular religion. But miracles like this, which could be prompted by St. Joseph’s hearing – the name of Jesus, of the Virgin Mary, or of a saint – certainly constitute evidence for God’s existence. Professor Moran may or may not be persuaded by such evidence, but evidence it certainly is. In the meantime, he might like to have a look at an article by Dr. Michael Grosso, entitled, Hume’s Syndrome: Irrational Resistance to the Paranormal (Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 22, No. 4, pp. 549–556, 2008).

Finally, I should mention the Resurrection of Jesus, of which former atheist Anthony Flew (who nevcer accepted Christianity) declared in 2004: “The evidence for the resurrection is better than for claimed miracles in any other religion. It’s outstandingly different in quality and quantity, I think, from
the evidence offered for the occurrence of most other supposedly miraculous events.” He then adds that he thinks this evidence can be discredited, since we lack “evidence from anyone who was in Jerusalem at the time, who witnessed one of the allegedly miraculous events, and recorded his or her testimony immediately after the occurrence of that allegedly miraculous event.” Nevertheless, even Flew acknowledges that there is evidence for this miraculous event – he just doesn’t happen to think it’s very powerful evidence.

The moral sense

Atheists are fond of claiming that we don’t need God in order to be moral, because we have an independent guide: the Golden Rule. But although the Golden Rile allows us to distinguish good from evil in most situations, it cannot define the meaning of good and evil. For the Rule itself can only bind us if there are certain things which are objectively good for us as human beings – for instance, food, knowledge and companionship. In the absence of objective goods, the Rule degenerates into a pathetic exhortation to respect people’s subjective preferences – which invites the obvious riposte, “Why should I?” There is no reason why I should respect an individual’s subjective preferences – after all, we don’t give cocaine to drug addicts. Natural law is the only sensible foundation on which an atheist can build morality. But such an ethic only works if we treat Nature Herself as normative. The Golden Rule, taken by itself, cannot tell me whether it is morally permissible for me to change my nature by transforming myself into, say, a hyper-intelligent, hyper-sentient cyborg who is nonetheless devoid of empathy (and hence no longer bound by the Golden Rule). Only if we take as a given the fact that this is God’s world, can we view our natural ends as ethically normative, and as objective goods which we tamper with at our peril. In other words, we need to foster belief in God in order to cultivate true respect for Nature.

My subjective self-awareness

The point I’d like to make here is that from a purely naturalistic standpoint, the behavior which promotes survival in humans and other animals could have evolved, regardless of whether they were sentient or not. Currently, there is no conclusive scientific evidence showing that any non-human animals are conscious – a point which is explicitly acknowledged by Marian Stamp Dawkins, Professor of Animal Behavior and Mary Snow Fellow in Biological Sciences, Somerville College, Oxford University. Marian Dawkins is herself sympathetic to the view that a large number of animals may be conscious. Nevertheless, she writes:

“[F]rom a scientific view, we understand so little about animal consciousness (and indeed our own consciousness) that to make the claim that we do understand it, and that we now know which animals experience emotions, may not be the best way to make the case for animal welfare. Anthropomorphism (seeing animals as just like humans) and anecdote were assuming a place in the study of animal consciousness that, it seemed to me, leaves the whole area very vulnerable to being completely demolished by logical argument…

It is, perhaps, not a comfortable conclusion to come to that the only scientific view of consciousness is that we don’t understand how it arises, nor do we know for certain which animals are conscious.
(Marian Stamp Dawkins, Professor of Animal Behavior and Mary Snow Fellow in Biological Sciences, Somerville College, Oxford University, writing in an online article entitled, Convincing the Unconvinced That Animal Welfare Matters, The Huffington Post, 8 June 2012.)

In her recently published book, Why Animals Matter: Animal consciousness, animal welfare, and human well-being (Oxford University Press, 2012), Professor Dawkins discusses the different issues relating to animal consciousness. Throughout the discussion, she maintains a skeptical outlook, because the scientific evidence is “indirect” (p. 111) and that “there is no proof either way about animal consciousness and that it does not serve animals well to claim that there is.” (p. 112). Summarizing the data surveyed, she writes:

The mystery of consciousness remains. The explanatory gap is as wide as ever and all the wanting in the world will not take us across it. Animals and plants can ‘want’ very effectively with never a hint of consciousness, as we can see with a tree wanting to grow in a particular direction. Preference tests, particularly those that provide evidence that animals are prepared to pay ‘costs’ to get what they want, are perhaps the closest we can get to what animals are feeling, but they are not a magic entry into consciousness. They do not solve the hard problem for us because everything that animals do when they make choices or show preferences or even ‘work’ to get what they want could be done without conscious experience at all. We have seen (Chapters 4 and 5) just how much we humans do unconsciously and how powerful our unconscious minds are in making decisions and even in having emotions. What is good enough for us may well be good enough for other species.

… The similarity between the behavioral responses of animals and humans to such drugs make it tempting to assume that because the behavior is similar, the conscious experiences must be similar too. Of course they may be, but there is no more ‘must’ about it than in the claim that animals ‘must’ consciously experience thirst before they drink or ‘must’ consciously experience hunger while they are searching for food. They may well do so, as we saw in Chapter 8. But there is no must about it. Animal bodies have evolved by natural selection to restore imbalances of food and water and to repair wounds and other kinds of damage. Neither food deprivation nor water deprivation, nor the symptoms of inflamed joints, are necessarily accompanied by any conscious experiences at all, although they may be. Just as our wounds heal up without any conscious intention on our part and we like certain foods without knowing why, so other animals, too, have a variety of mechanisms, for repairing and restoring their bodies to proper working order. Preference and choice and ‘what animals want’ are part of those mechanisms. They may well be accompanied by conscious experiences. But then again, they may not be. Once again, our path to finding out the answer is blocked by the implacable, infuriating obstacle known as the hard problem.” (pp. 171-174)

Professor Marian Dawkins concludes that since at the present time, scientists don’t know which (if any) animals are conscious, it is better for animal welfare advocates to refuse to commit themselves on the question of which animals are conscious: “… it is much, much better for animals if we remain skeptical and agnostic [about consciousness] … Militantly agnostic if necessary, because this keeps alive the possibility that a large number of species have some sort of conscious experiences … For all we know, many animals, not just the clever ones and not just the overtly emotional ones, also have conscious experiences.” (p. 177)

Viewed from a naturalistic perspective, the existence of consciousness is a surprising fact – one which we have no reason to expect. From a theistic perspective, on the other hand, it makes perfect sense: one would expect a personal Creator to make beings who were capable of knowing and loving their Creator, if He were going to make a world at all. Since each of us possesses not only awareness but also subjective self-awareness, we can apply apply Bayesian logic and deduce that the existence of God is highly probable, unless it can be shown that God’s existence has a very low a priori probability, in the first place. Now, if a skeptic wants to argue that, then they are welcome to do so, but in that case, the onus is on them to put forward a case against God.

Summary

In this post, we have looked at several lines of argument which point to the conclusion that God exists. Leading scientific and philosophical atheists have acknowledged that these arguments count as evidence, even if they remain unpersuaded by this evidence. I can only conclude that Professor Moran’s recent claim that there is absolutely no evidence for God or the supernatural flies in the face of what intelligent, open-minded atheists have to say on the subject. Professor Moran is obviously an intelligent man, but I wonder if he is as open-minded as he claims to be.

What do readers think? Is there any evidence for God?

Comments
RDF, First, contingency of being implies dependency on external enabling factors or circumstances (think on the fire example). Second a world of contingenr beings calls forth a necessary causal root, so the discussion is about that root. Third, parsimony is a recommendation for economy of thought and not a proper criterion of truth or warrant. Finally, we have empirical observational experience of just one cosmos, which is based on matter-energy in space-time undergoing change processes. Processes that since the 1920's and esp. the 1960's, we have had strong reason to understand trace to a finitely remote beginning at a singularity, c 10 - 20 BYA. (That loose number is projectable from various astronomical data, starting with patterns of HR curves for clusters, red shift, etc.) The contingency of the observed cosmos is well established. It is not about to go away. And, this happens to be the only credibly observed cosmos to date; never mind multiverse speculations. So, by direct extension the contingency of matter and of energy forms linked to that is also well grounded. Exponentiate all by the strong pattern of fine tuning that sets the observed cosmos at a deeply isolated operating point. So, even through a multiverse model, we face contingency requiring necessary being as causal root. Linked to this, locally deeply isolated fine tuning points to as best explanation design. It is exactly not what we would reasonably expect on a multiverse blind needle in haystack search. Indeed, a Boltzmann brain popping up would be on argument a more likely outcome than what we have. So, we have reason to accept that we live in a contingent cosmos that began c 13.7 BYA, and shows strong signs of being designed for C-chemistry, aqueous medium cell based life. Mix in testimony of conscience and on pain of general delusion, we see ourselves under moral government. E.g. just today by my fav Merchant Princess' shop (a former student) a little girl was with Mom by a cash register and dropped a small stuffed toy, a lady standing by picked it up and to interact, pretended it was hers. "Mine!" from the mouth of that little girl. We have a little more constraint acting on what is to be explained than lab coat clad materialists and fellow travellers are wont to admit. These cumulatively demand more than what a mere continuation to the past of our observed cosmos to some subcosmos matrix would admit. And BTW, at this point -- never mind the lab coats -- you have slipped across the border into philosophy. All serious options and key facts of life (such as mindedness and being under the generally acknowledged government of OUGHT) sit at the table as of right, not sufferance. We need a designer and maker of a cosmos and the IS who grounds OUGHT. And, the candidate root cause to beat is the inherently good Creator God, a necessary and maximally great being . . . the root of reality. KF PS: That God would be unfathomable to the finite and fallible is not exactly news. Let's hear Isaiah, 2700+ years ago:
Isa 55:6 “Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; 7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts . . .
Your contempt is unwarranted. We may know some things of God but we may not exhaust him in our attempts to understand. And that zone of knowledge includes that astonishing point.kairosfocus
February 16, 2015
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Hi Silver Asiatic,
The universe is contingent because it changes.
Just because something changes doesn't mean it did not necessarily have to change.
You just described something that you know about God.
No, you're quite wrong about that too. First, you need to tell me what you mean by "God" before I can say anything at all. I can't say if "God is knowable" until you tell me what "God" is. Second, what I said is that if there is a first cause of the universe (and of course there may be no such thing), then it is presently beyond our comprehension so we can say nothing about it. AGAIN: That is not saying something about the first cause; it is saying nothing about the first cause.
In doing this, we can see that the idea that God is unknowable is consistent with the idea that we can know something about God.
This is the sort of logic I have grown to expect from folks here at UD :-)
“Unknowable” or “beyond our comprehension” refers to the impossibility of finite, contingent beings to Fully comprehend what God is.
Now you have changed your tune again! Which is it - beyond our comprehension, or beyond our ability to fully comprehend? Hmmmmm. Cheers, RDFish/AIGuyRDFish
February 16, 2015
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Hi Barry,
This comment demonstrates that you do not have a firm grasp on the difference between “necessary” and “contingent.”
No, you are wrong about that too.
Can you point to any particular “thing” in the universe that is other than contingent?
We have no way of knowing, of course! I think perhaps it's you who hasn't quite understood the concept. As far as you or I can tell, it could be the case that nothing is contingent. Just because things in our experience change, begin to exist, and cease to exist, does not mean that they might have been different. Prove otherwise! Cheers, RDFish/AIGuyRDFish
February 16, 2015
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RDFish will next provide his evidence for the case that the universe just magically popped into existence from nothing at all. Or not.Mung
February 16, 2015
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Who is Larry Moran and why should anyone care what he thinks? LM: There is no evidence for God, a god, or gods. M: What would count as evidence for God , a god, or gods, and why, and what would cont as evidence against God or a god, or gods, and why? LM: Uh... I really never thought about that.Mung
February 16, 2015
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RDF
You simply claim that this universe is contingent and that God is not, but one could just as well claim the universe is necessary
The universe is contingent because it changes.
I do find references in the theologies of many religions (including Christianity) to the notion that God is unknowable and beyond our comprehension ...I think it is perfectly clear that this is the case currently. If the first cause is unknowable and beyond our comprehension, it means we shouldn’t go on to describe it as though we know something about it.
You just described something that you know about God. You described one of the attributes of God - and thus we know something about God. God is beyond our comprehension. We can compare God with things that are very knowable and note the difference. In doing this, we can see that the idea that God is unknowable is consistent with the idea that we can know something about God. "Unknowable" or "beyond our comprehension" refers to the impossibility of finite, contingent beings to Fully comprehend what God is. But we know that God cannot be created by anything since that is contingency and an infinite regress of creations. The fact that something exists has to be explained by either having received existence, or by being existence. If it received existence, then it is contingent - and had a beginning. If it is existence then it is uncaused and necessary.Silver Asiatic
February 16, 2015
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Red Fish ". . .but one could just as well claim the universe is necessary." This comment demonstrates that you do not have a firm grasp on the difference between "necessary" and "contingent." Can you point to any particular "thing" in the universe that is other than contingent? Of course not. Then why would you say that the universe, which is simply a collection of contingent things, could possibly be considered necessary.Barry Arrington
February 16, 2015
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‘oh look at the rainbow; god. oh look at my baby; miracle, god. oh look at the cell; complex, god.’ rvb8, if you don't find astonishing beauty in nature and the breath-taking complexity of even microscopic beings - about which some of us only learn on this forum - miraculous, you must be among the most unfortunate of people. I've had some unusual religious experiences, but the ones that 'knock my sock off' when I think of them, are the briefest and, prima facie, least significant: just beautiful to such an exquisite point that I end up unsure of how much of it was to do with the senses and how much to do with the feeling of intense love which accompanied and suffused the breath-takingly beautiful sight - a radiant, if otherwise undifferentiated, canvas, like a modern artist might paint - and call, 'absence'! Except there's usually some hint of tiny purple or mauve specks against a white background. Once, the walls of my hall turned transparent for a couple of seconds, when I was on my way to the bathroom during the night. The cream colour of the walls and the hall light made them seem golden. Again it was accompanied by that intense feeling of great beauty and love. I wondered whether it might have been an angelic visit (they're pure spirits of great power) or my late wife saying hello, with newly-invested powers of her own).Axel
February 16, 2015
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Hi VJTorley, I think your arguments fail for all the usual reasons. Just to start with: 1. If one can posit that there is a god that created the universe and was necessary, never began to exist, and thus had no cause, then one can just as reasonably (and more parsimoniously) posit that the universe itself (or the precursor of the universe, if you'd rather) had these qualities. You simply claim that this universe is contingent and that God is not, but one could just as well claim the universe is necessary. Just defining a god that is necessary doesn't make it so - that's the problem with these sort of armchair arguments - they try and prove things by playing with definitions rather than observable facts. 2. Just because some philosophers have argued (with hundreds of pages!) that any "first cause" must have various qualities of the Christian conception of God (omnibenevolence, etc) does not actually prove that any "first cause" had those qualities. I find those arguments to be extreme examples of motivated reasoning, and thus completely unconvincing. I do find references in the theologies of many religions (including Christianity) to the notion that God is unknowable and beyond our comprehension. Whether this is true ultimately can be debated, but I think it is perfectly clear that this is the case currently. If the first cause is unknowable and beyond our comprehension, it means we shouldn't go on to describe it as though we know something about it. If there was a religion that consistently accepted that the ultimate reason for the universe existing - and existing as it does - is unknowable, then I would join that religion :-) 3. The cosmological argument assumes we understand causality, and we don't, as is made clear not just by Hume but by modern physics. Virtual particles begin to exist apparently without cause, for example. 4. The argument induces that all things that begin to exist are caused - it doesn't deduce that principle. And inductions break down under special circumstance, which of course would include the creation of the universe. (Think: For each place that exists on Earth, there is a location to the North of it.... except that one place of course). 5. On one hand you hold that What “most philosophers” think about the argument is irrelevant.... yet on the other (in #4) you argue that so many philosophers have written that the first cause must have divine attributes that one cannot seriously doubt it. Another example of motivated reasoning - it's so strong that you blatantly contradict yourself in the space of this one post. I could go on, but I think that's enough :-) Cheers, RDFish/AIGuyRDFish
February 16, 2015
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There are numerous witness accounts. They began to be documented in 1628, and this continued until Joseph’s death in 1663, i.e. for 35 years.Silver Asiatic
February 16, 2015
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Atheists, instead of asking if God exists, would do better to ask if themselves exist. There is only God. Atheists are God Who, for fun, plays the game of denying Himself.niwrad
February 16, 2015
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Atheists are a strange lot: One claims that tricks and optical illusions are miracles, another says that the rarity of miracles indicates the non-existence of miracles, another thinks that God should replace the dentist, (and another insists that he would prefer to spend eternity in an unhappy state**). **...."and I will ask god if he could place me in his equally non-existant alternative fantasy.." Be of good cheer. If you continue to make that request, you will likely get your wish.StephenB
February 16, 2015
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in heavenly bliss for all eternity: No thank you
I always find it strange when someone says they don't want perfect happiness for all eternity. Usually it is followed with the idea: "if XYZ was part of it, I wouldn't be happy". Ok, you'll have perfect happiness and you won't be happy? In any case, what better thing than eternal bliss could someone want you to have?Silver Asiatic
February 16, 2015
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I have on my computer a small book entitled "Can God Heal Teeth"? The book is about the ministry of Rev Willard Fuller and it is written by NASA scientist Dr. Daniel Fry. The book describes the testimonies of many people who have had their teeth filled with gold, silver. porcelain or just natural dental material. There are many accounts of people looking on and watching in real time these miracles taking place by looking in mouths of the folks being healed including dentists and dental technicians. The fact that the book was written by a NASA scientist adds weight to these testimonies. The book may be obtained by doing a search for the title of the book or, by going to the website www.willardfuller.com/lsf.html.rwz46
February 16, 2015
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Then of course we must also bare in mind the diminution of god from the, 'part the ocean oh Lord', to the 'please clear my bald patch', or 'cure my cancer'. The fact that people pray for the ease of these melodies is perfectly normal (all power to them), but do they fully understand how they have hijacked god and made him into some bumbling folk hero? (perhaps that's why we invented him, who knows). None of the evidences here presented are anything more than efforts at wishing it were so, to coin a popular rebuke often used here, "Just so Stories": 'oh look at the rainbow; god. oh look at my baby; miracle, god. oh look at the cell; complex, god.' Fine Tuning? This is the so called stamp of god, the evidence left by him to lead us to his realm and everlasting peace, into the arms of the joyful saviour where we will fish with the eternal 'fisher of men' in heavenly bliss for all eternity: No thank you, 5 minutes with News, Barry and sidekicks vjtorley, BA77, and co, and I will ask god if he could place me in his equally non-existant alternative fantasy.rvb8
February 15, 2015
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CH, I have given my view, and my reason in outline. Beyond, you have been invited to look at much more central matters. KFkairosfocus
February 15, 2015
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Curly, if I may suggest, I suggest you read Metaxas's book 'Miracles'. I believe it is still on the NYTimes bestseller list (it was up to number 12 two weeks ago): http://www.amazon.com/dp/0525954422/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=7003362240&ref=pd_sl_yqu55fz6r_e In it, he has a chapter that honestly deals with the issue of 'unanswered prayers' I believe he touches on that issue in this interview: Interview - Author Eric Metaxas Talks About "Miracles" https://soundcloud.com/freefallaudio/author-eric-metaxas-talks-about-miracles of related note Buckshot: Eric Metaxas Interview https://soundcloud.com/buck-sexton/buck-shot-eric-matesx-interviewbornagain77
February 15, 2015
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That's odd, because I see people (ba77) post about prayer, out of body experiences, an other nonsense pretty regularly. Anyways, maybe there is more than I have seen, or maybe it's just wishful thinking on your part. Maybe you only pay attention to the miracles that do occur, and ignore (or aren't even aware of) those that never do.Curly Howard
February 15, 2015
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CH, UD is not about this particular subject, butprayer is not magic -- the attempt to manipulate powers to one's advantage, it is about in the end relationship. And, miracles no 1 and 2 are not particularly spectacular but pivotal. First God hears and answers sincere prayer. Second he reaches out to us relationally and positively transformationally. There are literally dozens of millions alive right now who experience these two miracles. And indeed miracle no 3 is directly connected. There are other miracles that serve as signs that help a community move towards the same focal issue in 1 and 2. Beyond this, things go off into theology, which is not appropriate to UD and a major side of its audience, so I simply suggest that there is more to the matter than you have seen. KFkairosfocus
February 15, 2015
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But then why does god answer, let's say, 1% of prayers, Barry?Curly Howard
February 15, 2015
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Suppose God were the cosmic vending machine you seem to think he is supposed to be: "Put your prayer token in the slot and pick up your miracle at the bottom." Easy peezey; slick and breezy. Now go back and think long and hard about the implications of such a god for free will. And when you've thought long enough and hard enough, you will have your answer.Barry Arrington
February 15, 2015
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I'm not asking god to show off. Apparently you and I have different definitions of "adequate." For every "miracle" there are still thousands of people begging and praying for a miracle of their own. Odds are a few will actually get what they wish for, but oh how quickly we forget those that don't.Curly Howard
February 15, 2015
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Vjtorley, This is an excellent, excellent review... congratulations...!!! Maybe... next time perhaps... you should ask ALL THE SCEPTICS what evidence would satisfy their desires for evidence of God's existence... I personally think you may find it a bit surprising...Quest
February 15, 2015
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CH, God does not have to show off to draw attention, but there are more than adequate signs for us to see enough. Try 98 here and 178. KF PS: As for understanding what God is, this discussion may help, at least to appreciate what ethical theists are thinking: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/on-the-reasonableness-and-importance-of-the-inherently-good-creator-god-a-necessary-and-maximally-great-being/kairosfocus
February 15, 2015
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God is not normally spectacular? What is god, then?Curly Howard
February 15, 2015
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CH, I suggest that God is not normally spectacular [hence my speaking of a particular case I personally witnessed alongside others as I just did . . . ], and the work of transforming hearts (a real challenge, given human freedom) and reforming cultures that led to doing much good should not be underestimated or brushed aside -- we reap many benefits of that today though too often it is now slighted or written out of our history books and classes. Beyond, I suggest you may find this helpful on the problem of evils, as a 101. KFkairosfocus
February 15, 2015
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For every life saved by a doctor, there are thousands who cannot be brought back. For every person healed of what was determined to be a terminal disease, there are thousands who remain sick. For every life transformation that brings someone back from the brink, there are thousands who go over the edge. For every miracle baby, there are thousands of mothers unable to conceive or babies born with deformity. It would be nice if god could spend less time performing the miracle of levitation, and pay more attention to the unnecessary suffering we see on this planet.Curly Howard
February 15, 2015
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Piotr, miracles are real enough, whatever trickeries some may play at. My being here is as a result of miraculous guidance to the doctor who saved my life. I have known people healed of various diseases. And much more, especially seeing dramatic life transformations that are testimonies of redeeming grace . . . but then, there are literally millions of cases in point. As to levitation, apart from noting that the 1,000+ case in front of many eyewitnesses was within living memory and fresh record of Hume's day . . . rendering his dismissive arguments highly dubious, let's just say, I have observed that (in a semi-public situation), eyeball mark I; but in a context where the bigger miracle was suppressing a spectacle by forces up to no good then driving them out. Powers to do extraordinary things are not proof of goodness of said powers. One needs to look at orchards and quality of fruit. KFkairosfocus
February 15, 2015
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Since the late, preeminent atheist-apologist, Professor Anthony Flew, remarked that the fine-tuning of the universe was what finally convinced him of deism, Hitchens was playing safe, rather than 'pushing the boat out', as was his ever so slightly bombastic and customary wont. Indeed, with his third-class degree, Hitchens could hardly be viewed as a peer of Flew in his understanding of philosophy. He was a minion of the atheist media, whenever Dawkins was unavailable. Or else a supplement, good for 'midship ballast', if not for the higher reaches.Axel
February 15, 2015
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LoL! I am sure Piotr believes that...Joe
February 15, 2015
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