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Pass me a Corona! II

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The comments to the original Pass me a Corona! post are closed. Additional comments on that topic should be posted below. I will start this post with PaV’s last comments to the prior post [i.e., everything that follows is PaV, not Barry].

Today the paywall for a Spectator USA article has been lifted. The article is by a retired pathologist who worked as a pathologist for the NHS in the UK, Dr. John Lee. I mentioned his article yesterday.

Every point he makes parallels arguments I’ve made here, though not so much the time period of death–though this, too, parallels a concern over “excess deaths.”

Here are some relevant comments:

The distinction between dying ‘with’ COVID-19 and dying ‘due to’ COVID-19 is not just splitting hairs. Consider some examples: an 87-year-old woman with dementia in a nursing home; a 79-year-old man with metastatic bladder cancer; a 29-year-old man with leukemia treated with chemotherapy; a 46-year-old woman with motor neurone disease for two years. All develop chest infections and die. All test positive for COVID-19. Yet all were vulnerable to death by chest infection from any infective cause (including the flu). COVID-19 might have been the final straw, but it has not caused their deaths.

Here’s a comment that might well be directed at the deaths we see coming out of Italy and Spain. Are these deaths due to a variety of causes but simply attributed, blindly, to the SARS-CoV-2 virus?

Next, what about the deaths? Many UK health spokespersons have been careful to repeatedly say that the numbers quoted in the UK indicate death with the virus, not death due to the virus — this matters. When giving evidence in parliament a few days ago, Prof. Neil Ferguson of Imperial College London said that he now expects fewer than 20,000 COVID-19 deaths in the UK but, importantly, two-thirds of these people would have died anyway. In other words, he suggests that the crude figure for ‘COVID deaths’ is three times higher than the number who have actually been killed by COVID-19. (Even the two-thirds figure is an estimate — it would not surprise me if the real proportion is higher.)

If we take Ferguson literally, does this mean that the actual number of deaths worldwide due to SARS-CoV-2 is not 35,000, but around 12,000? Will we ever know? The people responsible for finding this out are the same people who might have been gigantically wrong about their numbers. What would be their motivation to prove how incompetent they were?

It should be noted that there is no international standard method for attributing or recording causes of death. Also, normally, most respiratory deaths never have a specific infective cause recorded, whereas at the moment we can expect all positive COVID-19 results associated with a death to be recorded. Again, this is not splitting hairs. Imagine a population where more and more of us have already had COVID-19, and where every ill and dying patient is tested for the virus. The deaths apparently due to COVID-19, the COVID trajectory, will approach the overall death rate. It would appear that all deaths were caused by COVID-19 — would this be true? No. The severity of the epidemic would be indicated by how many extra deaths (above normal) there were overall.

Let me point out that this very problem is what has been going on now for over thirty years in the case of HIV. This is exactly how HIV/AIDS is defined. And Dr. John Lee says this is wrong. He’s a pathologist. So, Dr. Fauci, in charge of HIV/AIDS for over thirty years has been employing a definition for HIV/AIDS that is wrong, not true. Is it any wonder, then, that we are in this quandry?

Today, Fauci is quoted as saying that the number of deaths he expects from CoVid-19 is between 100,000 and 200,000. No way that is going to happen. Are the blind leading the blind?

Here’s a fresh perspective on numbers:

Let me finish with a couple of examples. Colleagues in Germany feel sure that their numbers are nearer the truth than most, because they had plenty of testing capacity ready when the pandemic struck. Currently the death rate is 0.8 percent in Germany. If we assume that about one-third of the recorded deaths are due to COVID-19 and that they have managed to test a third of all cases in the country who actually have the disease (a generous assumption), then the death rate for COVID-19 would be 0.08 percent. That might go up slightly, as a result of death lag. If we assume at present that this effect might be 25 percent (which seems generous), that would give an overall, and probably upper limit, of death rate of 0.1 percent, which is similar to seasonal flu.</blockquote. Let’s note that 0.08% is less than the mortality of seasonal flu. That’s how this entire thread started. Is the Deep State at work again?

This thread began on March 18th. Total number dead on that date: 150. Twelve days later–almost two weeks, the number is 2613. So, 2,470 people died in an almost two week period.

And how many have died of seasonal flu since Feb 28th? 4,000–as of March 19th.

We’re being had.

Comments
The explanation for the relieving of Captain Brett Cozier, USS Theodore Roosevelt: 'Not acceptable': Navy claims it fired the captain dealing with coronavirus outbreak for sending 'blast out' email to at least 20 people with 'unclassified' system:
US Navy The Secretary of the Navy offered more details into his decision in relieving the commander of a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier dealing with a coronavirus outbreak. Capt. Brett Crozier of the USS Theodore Roosevelt penned a letter to his superiors about the urgent situation aboard his ship, which was dealing with the spread of the coronavirus. "The letter was sent over non-secure, unclassified email even though that ship possesses some of the most sophisticated communications and encryption equipment in the fleet," the Navy Secretary said. He said that the captain should not have sent a "blast out email to anybody who he knows about the situation," adding that it was "copied to 20 or 30 other people."
Definitely not acceptable. So it isn't that he complained. It was his methodology.ET
April 3, 2020
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We were sent to Sunday school by our parents but I suspect that was just so they could get a couple hours to themselves. I’ve always been very inquisitive. When I was 17 I spent thee months in hospital after surgery to fuse most of my vertebrae together. And then a couple years later I had a collapsed lung and subsequent surgery. Rather than feel sorry for myself, or pray, or blame God, I was intrigued by the procedures performed on me and the equipment I was hooked up to. I approached it as a learning experience. When my father died of an aortic aneurism caused by Marfins (a genetic disease) a month before my wedding, and a few years later when my mother died of breast cancer at the age of 54, I never felt the desire to pray, or to blame God. When I later found out that I also have Marfins and have a higher risk of aneurism, I never thought, ‘why me?’, or felt the desire to pray. In short, I have never experienced anything in my life where I felt that there must be something more, as BA77 did. I have reviewed much of the evidence that is purported to support the existence of Jesus and God, and have not found it very convincing.Ed George
April 3, 2020
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PaV:
Your openness and sincerity are appreciated–and, may I say, by all.
Hook, line and sinker.ET
April 3, 2020
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Dave S Thanks. Always have respected your comments and views. I must confess the math is way over my head LOL You always treat people with respect. Vividvividbleau
April 3, 2020
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PAV “Vividbleau,” is that like the ‘blue’ we see in the sky?” Yes because Vividblue , the name of a secret military program, was taken. Vividvividbleau
April 3, 2020
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JVL,
I am disappointed to have NO responses from the atheist crowd. C'mon guys! Man up!!
Sorry, JVL, I don't have an interesting transformation story like others here. And while I do engage in a few debates or discussions concerning the existence of God, outside of here, it's not really a big part of my life. I'm more interested in issues around mathematics and philosophy.daveS
April 3, 2020
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R7
The FDA has declared shortages for critical ICU sedation drugs midazolam and ketamine due to high demand for COVID-19 coronavirus patients.
Have they asked Canada Or Germany for help? They both have many pharmaceutical manufacturers. As this is a worldwide crisis, and given that we will have to work with each other to get over this, I’m sure that Canada and Germany would help. Well, maybe banning all shipments of PPE from the US to Canada, and highjacking a shipment of PPE from China to Germany was a shortsighted strategy.Ed George
April 3, 2020
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JVL Evidence Then the doubts came in. I am somewhat of an obsessive compulsive after a few months I started to ask uncomfortable questions. I know what I experienced but the mind is a funny thing and I recognized hey you are basing your life on this belief which is a serious commitment maybe I am deceiving myself “Am I sure?” and of course I was not sure I needed more. One of my strengths, and is always the case can be one of my greatest weakness, is that I have a very open mind, its not empty but open. I also think that to confront ones doubts one must face the opposition and their strongest arguments honestly and without distortion. Its a blessing and a curse because it is very tough to engage arguments that are contrary to what you believe. This is important, I recognize that I am not objective, I am guilty of observational bias, by recognizing this I recognize that I have to fight that and the way to do that is to expose oneself to ideas opposite of your own. I remember once on this site I mentioned that I was prone to observational bias and someone was surprised by that (it was not you) and I thought “are you kidding me”? Its a human condition. It took many years but in a nutshell here is where I have landed. Evidence is a plastic word and needs to be defined, here is how I prioritize evidence. 1) My starting point is where all of us start, and where many are ignorant that they start there, which is a set of unprovable assumptions, everyone has them. Everyone starts with metaphysics! I assume the reliability of mind. 2) Reason and its sister Logic is superior to experience. Logic cannot tell us what is but it can tell us what is NOT. 3) Because everything starts with metaphysics faith is not unreasonable, nor is fideism the same as faith. 4) Every worldview is a set of faith assumptions about the nature of things ie is a metaphysical belief. 5) Every worldview has difficulties. 6) To echo KF we should adopt the worldview that has the least number of difficulties. As to the materialist, atheist, agnostic I GET IT. I understand why when we look over history, the pain and suffering that exists in our world, the evil and mayhem, atheism to me is a reasonable position but entails more difficulties than theism. Here is my answer as a theist to the problem of evil, I don't have one nor does anyone else, Jonathan Edwards, one of the greatest minds America has produced, spent his whole life contemplating this question and could not answer it. Those who appeal to the free will of man etc, just demonstrate to me that they dont gasp the extent of the problem, I am laying it all out here and I know this will rankle some theists here but thats a fact. As an aside I think the problem of evil is more a problem for the atheist than the theist I will end here. JVL Ive been as honest as I can and hope this is the type of response you were looking for. FYI you have to my knowledge ever demeaned me or belittle my beliefs. Challenging is not belittling. Vividvividbleau
April 3, 2020
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@355, I wrote this:
If these numbers are good ballpark figures, then the need for “social distancing” becomes clear. An overburdened, and afflicted, medical care system might collapse with even more deaths as a result. With the social-distancing, the R_nought effect is lessened.
What I wrote basically means that social-distancing will NOT lessen the total number of people who will die from this virus. All that social-distancing does is, as Dr. Fauci has so often said, lower the peak number of deaths. While this helps the medical care system throughout the nation, which is an important consideration and a just rationale for social-distancing, a balance needs to be struck between our medical system and our economic system. Again, social-distancing doesn't lower the total amount of deaths; it just spreads it out in time.PaV
April 3, 2020
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JVL: Your openness and sincerity are appreciated--and, may I say, by all.PaV
April 3, 2020
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We all come around to certain things slowly: Case in point: Dr. Fauci: “Bottom line. We don’t have to worry about this one, right?” Newsmax anchor Greg Kelly asked Fauci on January 21. “Obviously, you need to take it seriously, and do the kinds of things that the CDC and the Department of Homeland Security are doing, ” Fauci responded. “But, this not a major threat for the people of the United States, and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.” CDC Director Robert Redfield told Fox News’ Brian Kilmeade late last month that he agreed with Fauci’s assessment at the time, and said that nobody could have predicted the outbreak that would eventually occur in the U.S. “Obviously that became corrected as they saw in the first three, four weeks in January that human to human spread was not only occurring it’s actually, as I said, more infectious and I think that led to the situation that we’re in today. I think no one could have predicted how transmissible, how infectious this virus really is,” Redfield said. Fauci made similar comments in February, saying the threat to the U.S. from the coronavirus was “minuscule.” By early March, Fauci had changed his tune, saying the virus “could be really, really bad,” but still said he believed the situation could be mitigated. PaV
April 3, 2020
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PaV: God usually gets our attention when things go wrong. When they’re going well, we’re too distracted by what makes us happy In my case, it was the other way around!! Which is what started to grab me . . . Anyway, carry on!!JVL
April 3, 2020
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PaV: What you’ve written is, of course, true in BOTH directions! I hope that is the case. That is my own personal goal. I cannot speak for anyone else.JVL
April 3, 2020
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PaV: I was living with someone outside of marriage, and saw a Bible there in her home, and had the urge to read it. And I haven’t been the same since. And, along the way, Jesus made himself known, in ways ordinary, and sometimes a bit out of the ordinary. I can resonate with this, in more ways than I can explain. Thank you for your statement. the Lord then has a way of entering our hearts. Usually, though, He wants to make sure we’re paying attention. And He has lots of ways of getting our attention, even viruses! Yes, this makes sense. Based on my own experience. I really should share it . . . I don't want to go into too many details because I'd like to protect the identity of the people involved but basically . . . There was a time in my life when I felt drawn to a woman who had faith. And I started seeing 'signs' in my daily life, things that I thought were very improbable, very odd, very directed. Directed in that they spoke to my mathematical training, they hit my detection point of highly improbable. I even approached a very supportive and understanding colleague who I admired very much who had/has great faith. I won't go into the reasons why it all fell through, I only bring up the example to let you all know: I understand, even if in a minor way, what a personal experience can feel like. I get it. And, maybe, I wonder why I wasn't able to take that last final step . . . Anyway, thanks again. For taking my request seriously. I think your response will help.JVL
April 3, 2020
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JVL:
And I’ve figured out . . . I’d like to know who they are and why they hold the beliefs they do. When you get to know people you spend a lot less time trying to change them or belittle them. That’s what I’ve found.
What you've written is, of course, true in BOTH directions!PaV
April 3, 2020
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Pav: Sorry, JVL, I meant only a couple of sentences, and then I got carried away. Never, ever apologise for being sincere and honest. And thank you for being sincere and honest. I find a lot of common ground with you to be honest. Again, I implore people to read PaV;s whole post. I would really love to hear your own story of how you came to faith but I understand if you'd rather not share it. I am really encouraged that so many people of faith have responded honestly. I am disappointed to have NO responses from the atheist crowd. C'mon guys! Man up!!JVL
April 3, 2020
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JVL: I was living with someone outside of marriage, and saw a Bible there in her home, and had the urge to read it. And I haven't been the same since. And, along the way, Jesus made himself known, in ways ordinary, and sometimes a bit out of the ordinary. Vividbleu's story is good enough. If we're open to the truth (Truth), the Lord then has a way of entering our hearts. Usually, though, He wants to make sure we're paying attention. And He has lots of ways of getting our attention, even viruses! I consider our social distancing to be a gift of an extended "Sabbath rest," given to a nation (world) that sees no need to stop on the Sabbath and give thanks and to reflect on life. Blessed be God forever. (Just thought I needed to add that last sentence for my own sake as I reflect on the gift aspect of what our nation is now going through. BTW, God usually gets our attention when things go wrong. When they're going well, we're too distracted by what makes us happy.)PaV
April 3, 2020
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JVL: I agree with you. I would only add this: we become wise when we're able to understand that our most worthy actions are those that have an eternal quality to them. This can be understood even by someone outside of mainline religion. (There are rotten Christians and truly caring and ethical atheists) But religions can help clarify and purify, espeically Christianity. (Because the truth that reason could never at, God has revealed in His Son, Jesus Christ) Jesus said: "Whatever you do to the least of my brethren (all of us), that you did unto me." This is a "Person-centric" statement, independent of religion itself. Sorry, JVL, I meant only a couple of sentences, and then I got carried away.PaV
April 3, 2020
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Pav: Thanks for sharing your conversion experience with everyone here. Nice story. I could probably tell a similar one. Why not do so? I, for one, would like to hear it. I think we need to get to know each other, real people. In the past, I admit, I have had cardboard cutout versions of ID proponents in my head. But those mental space-holders are a lie. The truth is that there are real, sincere, intelligent people ascribing to those beliefs. And I've figured out . . . I'd like to know who they are and why they hold the beliefs they do. When you get to know people you spend a lot less time trying to change them or belittle them. That's what I've found.JVL
April 3, 2020
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Vividbleu: Thanks for sharing your conversion experience with everyone here. Nice story. I could probably tell a similar one. "Vividbleu," is that like the 'blue' we see in the sky? PaVPaV
April 3, 2020
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PaV: Maybe the Good Lord is truly sending our world a message: we don’t have tomorrow. Life is a gift given to us each day. Use it well. Learn to love. I can agree with that!! Do not squander the time you've been given.JVL
April 3, 2020
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Very nice post, Vivid.daveS
April 3, 2020
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Total deaths in England are at 3,600 with over 600 for today alone. The Gupta study was estimating total deaths to be as low as 4,000. We're past that tomorrow, no doubt. This means that their figure for CFR of 0.1% is too low. When I calculated CFR from the Diamond Princess cruise ship data, the CFR was 1%. I noted, though, that the population of the ship tended to be older. Correcting it to reflect the U.S. population, I arrived at 1/3 of 1%, or, 0.33%. For an older Europe, the data would look more like 2/3 of 1%, or, 0.66%. We've seen that number in print as an estimate of the CFR for this virus. My hunch, then, is that we're zeroing in on the CFR. For the U.S., I suspect it will be about 0.33%, or three plus times higher than the seasonal flu. Undoubtedly, though, the R_nought, the reproduction number, is around 2.5 (Gupta), maybe higher. So, this is a bad combination. This is going to be worse than the swine flu in 2009, whose CFR ended up being 0.02%. Now, as a rough estimate, you could say that the corona virus is going to be 16 times more deadly. This doesn't take into account the R-nought for the swine flu, which was less than for this virus. Leaving this consideration aside, we know that in 2009, 12,469 persons died. 16 x 12,469 = (roughly) 200,.000 persons. If these numbers are good ballpark figures, then the need for "social distancing" becomes clear. An overburdened, and afflicted, medical care system might collapse with even more deaths as a result. With the social-distancing, the R_nought effect is lessened. So, using these numbers, one might expect that the total deaths might be reduced--and this is a pure guess, by as much as 60 to 70%, depending on the length of time the social distancing is employed. Thirty percent of 200,000 is 60,000. My recent estimate is that 31,000 will die. These are ballpark figures. But they do show the need for social distancing. So, let it be known, while at first I thought the social-distancing was an over reaction, given that it is now clear that the reproduction number for this virus is high, coupled to a higher than normal virulence, I can now see the wisdom in the actions President Trump has taken. Now it is a matter of how quickly the numbers can be dampened, which would allow the social distancing to end. Now, the downside of the social distancing will be that unless "herd immunity" has developed, should the virus start up in the Fall, which is likely, we will have to go through this again. Maybe the Good Lord is truly sending our world a message: we don't have tomorrow. Life is a gift given to us each day. Use it well. Learn to love.PaV
April 3, 2020
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Vividbleau: Ok I will stop here because this is long enough for one sitting, but I next want to talk about evidence outside of experience and I will do that later. Honestly I find experience to be inadequate evidence there will be a post regarding non experiential evidence. BTW I have no problem with people challenging my worldview so fire away LOL On the contrary, I find your personal experience very compelling and persuasive. Thank you for taking the time to convey it to us. As I've said to others who have responded to my query: thank you, and, if I have belittled you in the past for your beliefs then I promise to do better in the future. You and I will most likely disagree about a lot of things but I will not question the grounding of your faith. On that, you have my word . . . whatever it's worth. Thank you again. I would ask everyone to please read Vividbleau's entire response. And all the other responses I have received to my query. These are powerful and important statements. I forgot to add the most important question one can ask oneself is this “ Do you want to know the truth no matter what that truth is”? Personally, yes.JVL
April 3, 2020
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I forgot to add the most important question one can ask oneself is this “ Do you want to know the truth no matter what that truth is”? Vividvividbleau
April 3, 2020
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JVL Once again thanks for your thoughtful post,very refreshing. I am a Christian theist, reformed theologically. My story and why. I was raised Catholic, Catholic education, altar boy , etc. In college I left the church for a host of reasons none of I think relevant for this discussion and still have deep respect for individual Catholics. In college I became an agnostic and in my senior year I started to grapple with what I wanted to do going forward in my life, I was not exactly following the plan of my family and was getting significant push back as my lifestyle was not in accord with their wishes. I was really struggling as to how to go forward since the overriding thought for me focused on the question of meaning, does life have a meaning? My philosophical framework was “we are born, we live for awhile, then we die”, so what does it matter how I live. In my senior year in college and I was in the athletic training room and the head trainer came to me and said you have a phone call from your roommate. I got on the phone with him and he says “there this guy in our room talking about heaven and hell and Jesus Christ and if you don't get back here I am going to kill him” I rushed to my dorm room and my roommate had the guy by the throat threatening his life, I am not making this up, I separated the two and asked the guy what all this is about. The guy was sharing the Gospel and this was totally foreign to me, I never heard it explained to me the way he did I promptly ushered him out of my room. BTW my roommate eventually became a Christian. Fast forward a few months later I was lying in bed one night and I could not get to sleep as I was grappling in my mind the haunting question that I was preoccupied with “Does life have a meaning” Laying there in my bed I started to work out the inescapable logic, if life had no meaning it doesn't matter what I do because death is the ultimate outcome. The only way that life can have a meaning is that there must be something beyond death, some sort of meaning giver however the question remains which is does it have a meaning or not, more importantly how could I ever know? I remember thinking “well I cant go to something that does not exist and ask it to show itself I can only go to something that possibly exists and if it does then certainly he, she, or it has the power to do so and thats what I did. It went something like this, “God if you exist, and I am not saying you do, but if you do I want to know you, reveal yourself, I don't need a priest, preacher, church or people to communicate with me, you reveal yourself and if Jesus is who that guy in my room says he is let me know but I am not going to rely on others, surely if you exist you have the power to do that” Then I went to sleep. The next morning things started happening that were totally out of character for me, I had this overwhelming desire to read the Bible. I never read the Bible, never even thought about it but I had this desire that I have to find a Bible, I mean this desire stunned me. Since I was home from school I started ransacking the house for a Bible , it took me awhile and I found this small black Bible and started at the beginning and read it from beginning to end over the next few months. Another change, after a few days I noticed that something was missing and what was missing was my foul language, in fact I realized that since that night I had completely changed, before that night I had the foulest mouth imaginable and it just stopped. More changes started happening that were more incredible but I don't want to reveal them, the extraordinary thing was that I wasnt trying to change anything, it was just happening, I had changed. Ok I will stop here because this is long enough for one sitting, but I next want to talk about evidence outside of experience and I will do that later. Honestly I find experience to be inadequate evidence there will be a post regarding non experiential evidence. BTW I have no problem with people challenging my worldview so fire away LOL Vividvividbleau
April 3, 2020
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The FDA has declared shortages for critical ICU sedation drugs midazolam and ketamine due to high demand for COVID-19 coronavirus patients. Demand rose at least 51% in March for common sedatives and anesthetics used in the ICU -- propofol, dexmedetomidine, etomidate, ketamine, lorazepam, and midazolam, but the fill rate dropped to 63% before the end of the month, according to data from Vizient, the group purchasing organization for about half of U.S. acute care centers, reported by STAT. The dropoff in elective surgery had helped conserve the medications, but ICU patients rip through much larger supplies of these drugs, he noted in an interview monitored by his organization's media relations. Manufacturing supply problems stemming from shutdowns of Chinese producers of active ingredients due to COVID-19 have yet to ripple through the distribution channels, he noted. "It's yet to be seen just what impact that might have."rhampton7
April 3, 2020
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Kairosfocus: did you notice that you cut off your reckoning as soon as I spoke to my further reasons? The effect, is to create a strawman caricature. No, I read your whole response. And I did not feel the need to reproduce the whole post; interested readers can peruse it at their leisure. What I did was to reproduce the part of your post that I, personally, found compelling and beyond reproach. Which is why I commented on it the way I did. If you are going to distrust me whenever I respond in ways you don't approve then it would be best we stop conversing right now. There would be no point. I ask your indulgence and final judgement based on my follow-on behaviour. Please. I'm not saying I will agree with you in the future, but I will do my best to respect your reasons for your beliefs. Okay?JVL
April 3, 2020
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JVL, did you notice that you cut off your reckoning as soon as I spoke to my further reasons? The effect, is to create a strawman caricature. KF PS: Perhaps, this historically pivotal sermon may say something. Paul, at Mars Hill, Athens, c 50 AD, in words now affixed to that hill in a Bronze Plaque:
Ac 17: 22 So Paul, standing in the center of the Areopagus, said: “Men of Athens, I observe [with every turn I make throughout the city] that you are very religious and devout in all respects. 23 Now as I was going along and carefully looking at your objects of worship, I came to an altar with this inscription: ‘TO AN [d]UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore what you already worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. 24 The God who created the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25 nor is He [e]served by human hands, as though He needed anything, because it is He who gives to all [people] life and breath and all things. 26 And He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands and territories. 27 This was so that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grasp for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28 For in Him we live and move and exist [that is, in Him we actually have our being], as even some of [f]your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’ 29 So then, being God’s children, we should not think that the Divine Nature (deity) is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination or skill of man. 30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”
Such is reasonably accessible to essentially any seriously interested inquirer. And indeed, the present circumstances are an obvious example of the kairous Paul spoke of that day. And, more.kairosfocus
April 3, 2020
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Truthfreedom: No answer then. Just dodging. Let me give you another answer: when you ask a question that you are pretty sure you know what the answer is going to be then you've got an agenda. You're trying to score some points. You ask about highly emotive issues, like necrophilia, and insist I answer you. You know I cannot condone such behaviour so you've asked the question as a set up for some follow-on reply. I'm not playing your rhetorical game. If you really want to know about my beliefs and values then ask sensible questions not ones guaranteed to provoke a response you can then attack. And, please, respond to my honest query about why you believe. I'd like that. And I'd like the atheists in the crowd to respond as well. I cannot pretend to speak for you so make sure your view is accurately recorded.JVL
April 3, 2020
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