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Progressives, Fascism, and the Will to Power

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So-called progressives are feeling pretty cocky nowadays, which is not surprising after they achieved a decisive victory on one of their key policy goals when the United States Supreme Court mandated that every state must adjust its laws to pretend that people of the same sex can marry one another.  Of course, it is the case and will always be the case that a man cannot marry another man any more than he can marry his left shoe.  Marriage is not an infinitely malleable concept; it has an irreducible essence, and that essence is defined by the mutually complementary design of male and female bodies.  Now the Supreme Court tells us we must, insofar as our civil laws are concerned, pretend that relationships that do not partake of that essence in fact do.  Far from tainting the victory, however, the in-the-teeth-of-objective-reality quality of it all serves to emphasize the vast scope of the progressives’ triumph.  They have forced every state in the union to pretend to deny reality itself.  That is an impressive political victory.

Understandably, many progressives must feel their power is ascendant and will remain so, and some are succumbing to the temptation of ascendancy – the temptation to speak and act as if one’s political opponents are powerless and their concerns are therefore irrelevant and need not be acknowledged, far less taken seriously.  Progressives are beginning to drop all pretense that to them the ideals of Enlightenment liberalism such as the right to free speech and freedom of conscious were ever anything but useful tools for accomplishing their goals when classical liberals (who, ironically, are called “conservatives” in the United States) were ascendant.  They have played according to the formula Frank Herbert described in Children of Dune:

When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.

The progressive call for “tolerance” for the “other” we heard for so many years was their way of asking for freedom according to the principles of classical liberals.  But now that progressives are politically ascendant, they are no longer calling for tolerance for the other.  Instead they are determined to quash all dissent and destroy those who refuse to conform, because progressives are fascists at bottom, and arraying the coercive force of government against their political opponents to enforce conformity is according to their fascist principles.  When they were weak, “tolerance and diversity!”  Now that they are strong, “Conform or be crushed under the heel of government.”  See here, here and here as merely the latest examples.

What does this have to do with origins?  Everything of course.  Classical liberalism was based on the premises and conclusions of natural law philosophy, as perhaps most famously articulated in the United States’ Declaration of Independence:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.  We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

It should be obvious that the superstructure of natural law rested on a theistic, specifically a Christian, foundation.  [Yes, a handful of the founders were Deists; the overwhelming majority of them were orthodox Christians.]  Classical liberals believed in God; they believed in a transcendent morality instituted by God; they believed that rights are not given by men to other men, but each man, as an image bearer of God, is endowed with inalienable rights by God.

These ideas have logical consequences.  Among these consequences are the belief that every human being has inherent dignity as an image bearer of God; that all persons have equal moral standing and thus a right to the twin freedoms of expression and conscience.  On the other side of the ledger, classical liberals had a keen sense of the doctrine of original sin, the fallenness of man, and his propensity for error, all of which led them to tolerate divergent political views and place their trust in the marketplace of ideas instead of a perpetual official political orthodoxy.

Progressives, on the other hand, are overwhelmingly secular and materialist in their outlook.  These ideas also have consequences, including (1) God does not exist; (2) good and evil do not exist as objective transcendent ontological categories; (3) God, who does not exist, cannot endow men with inalienable rights; and (4) men are not image bearers of a non-existent God; they are jumped up hairless apes with delusions of superiority over other animals.

If there is no good and evil and no God-endowed rights, by what standard does the progressive define the eponymous “progress” they claim to want to achieve?  Certainly there is no transcendent standard.  “We have to give up on the idea that there are unconditional, transcultural moral obligations, obligations rooted in an unchanging, ahistorical human nature,” says progressive hero Richard Rorty.

What then?  The answer is that progressives want what that want.  Theirs is a political philosophy bound by nothing and defined by their unbounded will to power.  Of course, none of this is new.  In Book X of The Laws Plato describes them:

In the first place, my dear friend, these people would say that the Gods exist not by nature, but by art, and by the laws of states, which are different in different places, according to the agreement of those who make them; and that the honourable is one thing by nature and another thing by law, and that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might, and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions, these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is, to live in real dominion over others, and not in legal subjection to them.

Might makes right.  Progressives want what they want, and they will crush those who oppose their will to power.  And it is not enough to achieve their policy objectives.  Dissent is not allowed.  Progressive Tanya Cohen writes:

it’s just common sense that freedom of speech doesn’t give anyone the right to offend, insult, humiliate, intimidate, vilify, incite hatred or violence, be impolite or uncivil, disrespect, oppose human rights, spread lies or misinformation, argue against the common good, or promote ideas which have no place in society.

And who decides what is the “common good” and “ideas that have no place in society”?  Why Tanya Cohen and her friends of course.

Countless times on these pages Progressives have argued that good and evil do not exist as objective categories.  Instead, they insist that good is defined by the consensus of a society.  Yet even this limit is a dodge.  Every time the people have voted on the “right” to same-sex marriage they have rejected it by fairly wide margins.  It is not the law because there is a societal consensus that it is right.  It is the law because five members of a nine-member committee of lawyers decided they have the power to impose it on the rest of us and by God they are going to use that power.  This is about as anti-democratic as it is possible to be.  Yet progressives celebrate the decision.  Why?  Not because the outcome is “legitimate” even by their own standards of legitimacy (i.e., societal consensus), but because that is what they want, and they don’t care how they get what they want so long as they get it.

What is to be done?  I am not sure.  It seems to me that the clash of worldviews has reached a point where further attempts to reason with one another may be useless.  The two camps no longer speak or even understand the other camp’s moral language.  How can I reason with someone who thinks it is morally acceptable violently to dismember a baby and sell her body parts to the highest bidder?  If that is not self-evidently monstrous and evil, what can I say that would make its monstrousness and evilness apparent?  I have no idea.

When Justice Kennedy says that the conception of marriage that was accepted by everyone everywhere in the history of the world until ten minutes ago is based on nothing but bigotry and prejudice, what can be said to dissuade him from such an absurd idea?  Again, I have no idea.

I do have an idea, however, that perhaps it is time to read more deeply into the Declaration:

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Comments
anthropic: The majority of Americans are convinced that abortion after five months pregnancy is immoral and that it should be outlawed. Except when done to save the life or health of the mother, or in cases of incest or rape. Only 1% of abortions in the U.S. occur after 21 weeks. anthropic: And the idea that we shouldn’t pass a law because it won’t totally stop bad behavior is ludicrous. No, but there are more effective ways to reduce abortion than forcing women to carry to term. Abortion is an ancient practice, and easily done, so enforcement will necessarily be arbitrary, often only when the woman has already suffered severe health effects and has to seek help. Suppose you can lock them up in a nunnery. harry: Sometimes such a surgery will have the unintended consequence of bringing about the demise of the unborn child. Sometimes saving the mother will require an abortion, plain and simple. harry: Most often though, any woman who is told by her doctor she is going to die if she carries her baby to term needs to find another doctor, because hers is obviously not staying current with the advances of modern medicine. Fetuses get sick and die, harry. The dying process can be very dangerous to the mother, so an abortion is often the best choice rather than carrying to term. harry: Dad can take his teenage daughter he repeatedly impregnates back to the abortion clinic again and again, announcing to the abortionist that “the little slut got herself pregnant again.” Sure. Another common situation is she comes into the clinic for an abortion because if he finds out, she'll be severely beaten, or worse. Silver Asiatic: What’s bad about it? For a variety of reasons. While safe, it's not as safe as prevention. And for many women, such as those with health problems, it's felt as the loss of a potential child.Zachriel
August 6, 2015
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Zachriel repeated this a couple of times (as he does) ...
Abortion is nearly always a bad choice
What's bad about it?Silver Asiatic
August 6, 2015
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Zachriel
You would criminalize women who seek abortions, regardless of the reason, and force them to carry the baby to term.
Not that this will make any difference to you, since what I am about to explain requires a belief in objective morality, and you will acknowledge no such thing, so that you can always rationalize any behavior you want because, according to you, the particular circumstances justify whatever it is you want to do, or want to allow others to do. What there can be no exceptions to is the prohibition against deliberately taking the life of an innocent human being; this includes any action the intent of which is to take the life of an innocent human being. This is why abortion procedures, the intent of which is to take the life of the baby, and are considered to have failed if the baby survives, are intrinsically wrong. On "life of the mother" exceptions: There are times when surgery must be performed or the pregnant women will die and her unborn child's death will follow. Sometimes such a surgery will have the unintended consequence of bringing about the demise of the unborn child. But that is not the intent of the surgery, and if the physician knew how to save both mother and child that would be done. Nothing is done the intent of which is to kill the unborn child. The morality of such a surgery is based on a principle called "double effect," and no thinking person denies the morality of saving the mother's life in such circumstances. Most often though, any woman who is told by her doctor she is going to die if she carries her baby to term needs to find another doctor, because hers is obviously not staying current with the advances of modern medicine. On the incest exception: Nothing has contributed more to incest than the pretended "legalization" of taking the life of the child in the womb. Dad can take his teenage daughter he repeatedly impregnates back to the abortion clinic again and again, announcing to the abortionist that "the little slut got herself pregnant again." If you think abortionists bother to ask who the father of the child is when a minor is brought in pregnant, or report cases of incest or statutory rape like they are supposed to do, you are even more willfully ignorant than we thought. If one is opposed to incest then one is opposed to "legal" abortion, which only increases instances of incest because it has been made so easy to get away with. Of course, nothing is intrinsically wrong according to you, so I don't suppose this makes any difference to you. On the rape exception: If transplanting the unborn child from the body of a rape victim to the body of a woman who wanted to adopt the child were feasible, would you still insist on the death of the unborn child instead? If so, you are even sicker than we thought. If not, why not? Because we are talking about the life of an innocent human being? Yes, that is exactly what we are talking about. And why should an innocent child get the death penalty for the crime of its father? Is that one of those things those with no objective morality have to insist upon: that innocent children get the death penalty for the crimes of their fathers? All kinds of bad things happen to people all the time. The solution to their difficulties is never to murder an innocent human being.harry
August 5, 2015
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We did not stop murder by outlawing it. So I guess it's OK to murder?
Only when you have convinced enough people that abortion is immoral, will it end, just as slavery only ended in Europe and North America when enough people became convinced that the practice was immoral.
How many is "enough"? 1.2 million+ abortions in the USA a year. Can you imagine the outcry if gun violence reached that level (in a non-war scenario)?Virgil Cain
August 5, 2015
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S 274 "You will not stop abortions by outlawing them." "Only when you have convinced enough people that abortion is immoral, will it end, just as slavery only ended in Europe and North America when enough people became convinced that the practice was immoral." -------------------------------------------------------- A non-sequitur. The majority of Americans are convinced that abortion after five months pregnancy is immoral and that it should be outlawed. It remains legal, however. Merely convincing the majority is not enough, as the Civil War demonstrated. And the idea that we shouldn't pass a law because it won't totally stop bad behavior is ludicrous. We have laws against murder, against child molestation, against rape, and against theft. All of these bad things still happen sometimes, but no sane person believes that means the laws shouldn't be on the books.anthropic
August 5, 2015
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You will not stop abortions by outlawing them. You will simply drive them back to the back streets again with all that will likely entail. The only way to stop abortions is to end the demand for them. That means convincing people that the child has as much of a right to life before birth as after, that to kill one before birth is as immoral as killing one after. It also means offering better alternatives. For example, explaining to a woman who wants to end her pregnancy that the child she doesn't want might be perfect for a childless couple desperate for one of their own. Only when you have convinced enough people that abortion is immoral, will it end, just as slavery only ended in Europe and North America when enough people became convinced that the practice was immoral.Seversky
August 5, 2015
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harry: There can be no exceptions. Thank you harry for your direct answer. You would criminalize women who seek abortions, regardless of the reason, and force them to carry the baby to term. Not sure why it was so difficult for the other commenter.Zachriel
August 5, 2015
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Barry Arrington @267
“Rape and Incest” Is it just me, or does it strike anyone else as odd that people in favor of the “right” to kill little babies always want to talk about the fraction of one percent rather than the over 99%. Telling, all too telling.
Right. Failing to restore the protection of law to children in the womb based on the "hard cases" is like opposing the abolition of slavery because some little old ladies in the South just couldn't get along without their slaves, and their slaves just loved them and were quite happy taking care of Grandma. Today's advocates of child-killing, if they had lived back then, would be loudly proclaiming that those who opposed slavery were waging a "war on grandmas." There could be no exceptions in the abolition of slavery. We had to find other ways to take care of Grandma. So it is with child-killing. There can be no exceptions. There are other ways to deal with the extremely rare "hard cases" besides butchering babies.harry
August 5, 2015
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Barry Arrington: make up statistics about how abortions were just as common before the practice was legal as they are now. See Mohr, Abortion in America: The Origins and Evolution of National Policy, Oxford University Press 1979; or for something contemporaneous, see Storer et al., 1859 American Medical Association Report on Criminal Abortion, which found that hundreds-of-thousands of abortions occurred annually. The evidence is indirect, but the fact that there was a lively trade in abortifiants and abortion services supports that it was quite common. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2014/08/06/history_of_contraception_19th_century_classified_ads_for_abortifacients.html The frequency of abortion was one impetus to the passage of stringent anti-abortion laws. Barry Arrington: Is it just me, or does it strike anyone else as odd that people in favor of the “right” to kill little babies always want to talk about the fraction of one percent rather than the over 99%. Is it just us, or did Barry sidestep answering a straightforward question? Presumably, you would criminalize women who seek an abortion regardless of the reason. Is that correct?Zachriel
August 5, 2015
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Mung @268
Pro Abortion and Anti Death Penalty. Where’s the logic in that?
They are not anti death penalty if the one executed is an innocent, helpless baby.harry
August 5, 2015
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Bad Zac!Heartlander
August 5, 2015
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Pro Abortion and Anti Death Penalty. Where's the logic in that? Why don't we just kill everyone for what they might or might not do? Why pick on the defenseless?Mung
August 5, 2015
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Z thinks the answer is to make up statistics about how abortions were just as common before the practice was legal as they are now. He must think we are all idiots. "Rape and Incest" Is it just me, or does it strike anyone else as odd that people in favor of the "right" to kill little babies always want to talk about the fraction of one percent rather than the over 99%. Telling, all too telling.Barry Arrington
August 5, 2015
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Barry Arrington: The best way to prevent an abortion is to not kill that baby. That only applies to you having an abortion. It doesn't prevent others from having abortions. You can outlaw it, but that was never very effective. Barry Arrington: Your statement is refuted by simple math: The number of abortions rose as access to cheap, plentiful and easy to obtain contraceptives rose. No. Abortions have been quite common throughout history. For instance, in the 1850s U.S., abortifacients were advertised in magazines, and the abortion rate was about one in every five or six births. Meanwhile, in modern times, maternal deaths dropped immediately whenever abortion was legalized. Barry Arrington: The surest means of reducing abortions is to resolve as a society not to kill unborn babies. Presumably, you would criminalize women who seek abortions. Would you make exceptions for incest or rape? In any case, women will still seek abortions depending on their situation, and you won't have achieved your goal. Heartlander: – a movement that caused the compulsory sterilization laws We addressed that above. Are you capable of reading, or just venting? Z: Forced segregation or sterilization is beyond reasonable government authority — even for those who are profoundly mentally disabled. Sanger did advocate full autonomy for the able-minded. While Sanger expressed racist views, she didn’t tolerate racial bigotry. She worked to provide birth control in African American communities, and her work with minorities won the approval of W. E. B. Du Bois, and later, Martin Luther King Jr. You started out by trying to create the impression that Sanger wanted to exterminate the black population, which is completely contrary to her view. You never corrected that misimpression, even when your own arguments show that wasn't the case. Heartlander: Her intentions were to stop the disabled, poor, feeble-minded, and the diseased from reproducing – ie eugenics. Anyone familiar with Sanger, rather than just reading polemics, would realize that her primary aim was to provide family planning and autonomy for women, including minority women, which is why her work was praised by King, among others. Heartlander: She was a major player in the eugenics movement Teddy Roosevelt and Winston Churchill also supported eugenics. They were flawed in their thinking. We admire them for what they got right, while not forgetting what they got wrong.Zachriel
August 5, 2015
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Zac, when I got a puppy - part of the potty training when it crapped in the house was to rub its nose in it - say “Bad!” - and put it outside. Although this may sound harsh, puppies are smart and quickly learn not to crap in the house. That being said… You praise Sanger for providing contraception to women – OK, but why did she do it? Her intentions were to stop the disabled, poor, feeble-minded, and the diseased from reproducing – ie eugenics.
Birth control is not contraception indiscriminately and thoughtlessly practiced. It means the release and cultivation of the better racial elements in our society, and the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extirpation of defective stocks— those human weeds which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization. – Margaret Sanger
She was a major player in the eugenics movement – a movement that caused the compulsory sterilization laws in 30 U.S. states that resulted in more than 60,000 sterilizations of disabled – the people Sanger deemed “weeds”. Sterilization was one of her methods of ‘weed’ prevention – ie birth control. She laid out a plan “to give certain dysgenic groups in our population their choice of segregation or sterilization”. This is your champion of “of reproductive rights for women”? Well that’s a bunch of crap! You may argue her methods were more compassionate than Hitler’s but the results would still be the same – deciding who is fit and eliminating who is not. So rub your nose in that – and go outside with your crap! Bad Zac! I can only hope you at least have the intelligence of a puppy so this will end soon…Heartlander
August 5, 2015
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Z @ 263. Well, at least you admit you are in favor of killing people. That's honest if also barbaric.
Sanger saw contraception as the surest means of preventing abortion. She was right
No, she was wrong. The best way to prevent an abortion is to not kill that baby. Your statement is refuted by simple math: The number of abortions rose as access to cheap, plentiful and easy to obtain contraceptives rose. The latter did not reduce the former. The surest means of reducing abortions is to resolve as a society not to kill unborn babies.Barry Arrington
August 5, 2015
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Barry Arrington: Do you understand the genus and species of the organism whose heart is stopped? Homo sapiens. The heart starts to beat about 3-4 weeks after fertilization. Abortion is nearly always a bad choice, but sometimes a least bad choice. Sanger saw contraception as the surest means of preventing abortion. She was right, and her efforts changed the landscape of reproductive rights for women.Zachriel
August 5, 2015
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Barry at 255:
Z, abortion stops a beating heart. Do you understand the genus and species of the organism whose heart is stopped?
Zachriel responds at 261: [crickets] Z, you are nothing if not predictable.Barry Arrington
August 5, 2015
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Heartlander: They shared common interests in eugenics – it’s not a big secret. No, it's not a secret, as we already noted above. Teddy Roosevelt and Winston Churchill shared that common interest. They were wrong. Barry Arrington: And killing 55 million unborn children is not “providing birth control to women.” Sanger saw contraception as the surest means of preventing abortion. She was right, and her efforts changed the landscape of reproductive rights for women. kairosfocus: Building a public highway system is a good, of benefit to a nation, not something inherently freighted with the moral weight of taking a life. Actually, Eisenhower justified the superhighway system for military purposes. ETA: The legal name of the U.S. interstate highway system is "The Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways." http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/brainiacs/eisenhowerinterstate.cfmZachriel
August 5, 2015
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Men without chests
“It is an outrage that they should be commonly spoken of as Intellectuals. This gives them the chance to say that he who attacks them attacks Intelligence. It is not so. They are not distinguished from other men by an unusual skill in finding truth nor any virginal ardour to produce her… It is not excess of thought but defect of fertile and generous emotion that marks them out. Their heads are no bigger than the ordinary: it is the atrophy of the chest beneath that makes them seem so.”
C.S. Lewis, “The Abolition of Man”mike1962
August 5, 2015
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Zachriel has a closed mind. There is no light in it and he won't open it to let any in. He will always have a rebuttal. He reminds one of Chesterton's madman in Orthodoxy:
Every one who has had the misfortune to talk with people in the heart or on the edge of mental disorder, knows that their most sinister quality is a horrible clarity of detail; a connecting of one thing with another in a map more elaborate than a maze. If you argue with a madman, it is extremely probable that you will get the worst of it; for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment. He is not hampered by a sense of humour or by charity, or by the dumb certainties of experience. He is the more logical for losing certain sane affections. Indeed, the common phrase for insanity is in this respect a misleading one. The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason.
The basic "good judgment," "sane affections" and "charity" of ordinary people have been lost by Zachriel and his ilk. These qualities bring ordinary people to immediately realize that things have gone terribly wrong when overwhelming, horrifying evidence makes it indisputable that children who are visibly just that -- children -- are being routinely and viciously dismembered by the millions. Zachriel and the godless social engineers who "reason" just like him are madmen who have lost their very souls and everything else, except, as Chesterton points out, the ability to "reason." That such madmen currently have a firm grip on the reins of power should inspire all ordinary people -- no, obliges all ordinary people -- to use the rapidly diminishing freedom we still have to take action, to do much more than just have the opinion that things have gone terribly wrong. You see, if we don't do this, if we rationalize away our obligation, then we, too, are reasoning without good judgment, sane affections and charity. We either resist this evil or become it.harry
August 5, 2015
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Zach So building the highways have aided in the killing of children by getting them to the abortion clinics faster? Evil roads!Andre
August 4, 2015
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Andre 216 To Z: "Perhaps its time to either change your view or come to the realization that you don’t really like people very much if you endorse their butchering." Unfair, Andre. Z does not endorse butchering people in general, just those who can neither object nor defend themselves.anthropic
August 4, 2015
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Zachriel:
Sure, and Eisenhower built the American autobahn. Same thing. Hitler.
I don't think you realise the import of what you just said. Building a public highway system is a good, of benefit to a nation, not something inherently freighted with the moral weight of taking a life. Even, looked at from a military perspective, both systems were conceived as being of logistics significance. But the taking of a single innocent human life is enormously freighted with moral significance. The taking of 57 or 58 millions in the US alone since 1973 and apparently a horrifically larger number globally is apallingly morally freighted. To casually write as though the two are the same betrays either an awful want of responsibility, or else it speaks to the collective behind the "we" of Zachriel (on recent talk of "we") having become utterly amoral. All I will say is that money can be very corrupting, but blood guilt and enabling blood guilt goes far, far beyond that. How far can be measured by the Dominical saying that for one to gain the world but lose his soul is a net loss. I suggest to you as a collective, that the time has more than come for soul searching. KFkairosfocus
August 4, 2015
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Zachriel @ 253:
Do you understand the difference between killing millions of people and providing birth control to women?
Yes, I do. And killing 55 million unborn children is not "providing birth control to women." Z, abortion stops a beating heart. Do you understand the genus and species of the organism whose heart is stopped?Barry Arrington
August 4, 2015
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Look, eugenic scientists from nazi Germany wrote articles for Sanger's Birth Control Review - Sanger's American Birth Control League sat in on sessions of nazi Germany's Supreme Eugenics Court and happily reported how their sterilization laws were "weeding out the worst strains in Germanic stock". They shared common interests in eugenics - it's not a big secret.Heartlander
August 4, 2015
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Heartlander: Eisenhower helped to defeat Hilter and did not share a common interest in eugenics like Sanger did… Eisenhower and Hitler shared in an interest in highway transportation. Same thing. As for eugenics, Teddy Roosevelt, Helen Keller, George Bernard Shaw, and Winston Churchill, supported eugenics. Sanger supported free reproductive choices (except those unable to make their own decisions). That's somewhat different than Hitler. Heartlander: Hitler. Hitler. Hitler. Hard to argue with that! Do you understand the difference between killing millions of people and providing birth control to women?Zachriel
August 4, 2015
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SA : I believe in monogamy within the context of marriage. I guess you don’t. You guess wrong ,amigo.velikovskys
August 4, 2015
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Ummm – no… Eisenhower helped to defeat Hilter and did not share a common interest in eugenics like Sanger did...Heartlander
August 4, 2015
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Heartlander: Hitler Heartlander: They just shared common interests… Sure, and Eisenhower built the American autobahn. Same thing. Hitler.Zachriel
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