Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

“Self-Evident” Does Not Mean “Apparent”

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

Many of our materialist friends do not seem to know the difference between the epistemological categories of “self-evident” and “apparent.” I am providing this primer on the difference to help them understand.

Here is a typical exchange where a materialist makes this category error.

Barry: It is self-evident that torturing an infant for pleasure is evil.

Materialist: Yeah, lots of things that have seemed self-evident have turned out to be false. For example, people used to believe it is self-evident that the earth is flat, and they were dead wrong.

Where has M gone wrong? First, M has gone wrong on the basic factual premise of his comparison. The ancients knew the earth was round and even measured its circumference. Great discussion here.

But the fact that materialists continue to spew this factually incorrect chestnut over and over after repeated correction is secondary for our purposes today. More importantly, M has failed to understand the epistemological difference between “apparent” and “self-evident.” “Apparent” means “according to appearances.” M has asserted that it is apparent to many people that the earth is flat. That appearance is false. And by equivocating between “apparent” and “self-evident” he attempts to prove that some self-evident propositions are false.

Nonsense. In the sense we are using it, “self-evident” is not a synonym for “apparent.” Instead, a self-evident proposition is defined as a proposition that is known to be true merely by understanding its meaning without proof. In that sense, is the proposition “the earth is flat” a self-evident proposition? Let’s see.

P1: The earth is flat.

P2: How do you know?

P1: Just go outside and look at it.

What has P1 just done? He has appealed to evidence in order to prove his statement. That very appeal means that his statement cannot be considered self-evident. Go back to our definition. A self-evident claim is one that we know to be true without proof.

An example of a self-evident claim is that 2+2=4. I cannot “prove” that 2+2=4. But does the fact that I cannot prove the proposition mean that I must conclude it is false? Of course not. I know the proposition to be true without proof merely because I understand what it means. Another way of looking at it is that I know for an absolute certain fact that the proposition “2+2 is not 4” is absurd in the sense that it cannot possibly be true, and in order to accept it as true I would have to reject rationality itself.

Unlike the statement “the earth is flat,” the statement 2+2=4 is not merely apparently true, it is necessarily true in any rational universe.

We have a clue that we are not talking about a self-evident truth when a proposition is appended to the word “believe.” Yes, people believe self-evident truths in the sense that they must necessarily accede to the fact that they are true. But people do not “believe” self-evident truths in the sense that they have evaluated the evidence and reached a conclusion they think is justified. Self-evident propositions are not subject to proof or disproof by empirical evidence. They are necessarily true. A person’s belief about a self-evident truth is irrelevant and is therefore rarely expressed. Thus, when one talks about a proposition that is either “believed” or “disbelieved” it is a clue that the proposition is not a proposition of self-evident truth.

This brings me back to my original statement. Numerous materialists with whom I have argued have denied that the statement “torturing an infant for pleasure is evil” is self-evidently true. They always agree that it is true. They never agree that it is self-evidently, necessarily true.

And I always ask them this question: Please describe the circumstances under which the proposition “torturing an infant for pleasure is not evil” is true. I say we can know for an absolute certain fact that the proposition “2+2 is not 4” is absurd because it cannot possibly be true, and in order to accept it as true we would have to reject rationality itself. The same is true of all self-evident propositions. The negation of any self-evident truth is absurd and rationality itself must be rejected in order to accept such a negation. I say the proposition “torturing an infant for pleasure is not evil” is just such an absurd negation of a self-evident truth. You, materialist, say it is not. Please support your assertion.

Dear readers, note that my challenge is extremely risky, epistemologically speaking, because even a single instance where it is met will shatter my project into a million pieces.

Happily, no one has ever come remotely close to answering this challenge. And it is easy to see why.

Comments
mjoels @ 16
And for the record he said that “I can’t prove” not that it cannot be proven.
No, you've misunderstood me. I mean exactly what daveS understood me to mean. No one can prove 2+2=4. It is either accepted as self-evidently true or it is not. None of daveS' examples prove that 2+2=4. They simply say the same thing in a wordier format and then append the word "proof" to it. It is all so pathetic.Barry Arrington
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:52 PM
1
01
52
PM
PDT
mjoels
Stay calm brother.
I hear you, but you need not worry. I am perfectly calm. Indeed, I fully expected the materialists to pull the exact stunt they pulled. They are so full of lies, deceit and confusion, that they must pounce on even the most basic truth in their feverish, frenzied, frenetic efforts to undermine all truth. So, I calmly demonstrate they are liars and then label them as such. Somewhere someone came up with the idea that it is impolite or something to call a liar out on his lies. I no longer believe that.Barry Arrington
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:48 PM
1
01
48
PM
PDT
And for the record he said that "I can't prove" not that it cannot be proven.mjoels
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:46 PM
1
01
46
PM
PDT
And that is a distraction from the point because the content is uncomfortable DaveS.mjoels
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:43 PM
1
01
43
PM
PDT
Dr JDD,
Ha! Classic materialistic response here! The whole point of BA’s post is absolutely nothing to do with 2+2=4.
?? It says right in the OP that you cannot prove 2 + 2 = 4. This is not true.daveS
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:36 PM
1
01
36
PM
PDT
Exactly.mjoels
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:35 PM
1
01
35
PM
PDT
Ha! Classic materialistic response here! The whole point of BA's post is absolutely nothing to do with 2+2=4. That was merely an example to illustrate a point and use of terminology. Yet this is precisely what the materialist attacks - because they cannot attack the actual argument itself. And that is the key to understanding materialist responses to many of the arguments against them: they attack subtleties in your argument because they cannot sufficiently demonstrate your argument is incorrect. It is a clever game because it detracts from the actual argument and to some shortsighted (including themselves) it appears as though they have successfully mounted a challenge to the argument. It really is classic!Dr JDD
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:31 PM
1
01
31
PM
PDT
Well BA, there is only a difference in presentation of the idea there. Not a new or novel idea. It really doesn't prove 2+2=4 any more than the statement 2+2=4, it is just a long winded abstracted version of it. Not really worth bringing in imo except to rile you up. Stay calm brother.mjoels
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:27 PM
1
01
27
PM
PDT
Barry, How am I lying? Of course you can prove that 2 + 2 = 4. Edit: Here are some other approaches.daveS
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:22 PM
1
01
22
PM
PDT
daveS @ 7. Sigh. Today is materialist whack-a-mole. See REC @ 3 and the replies. That stunt has already been pulled. It really is pathetic. They are saying, "It never was proved that 2+2=4 until such and such "proof" was published." Liars.Barry Arrington
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:18 PM
1
01
18
PM
PDT
The point is that it does not require proof. Certain statements, like the car is red, or 2+2=4, no matter how they are written, are always true. I am assuming that was a joke there... otherwise you are saying that 2+2=4 is a subjective idea... That would truly be insanity. Proofing of that kind is simply a way to formalize an idea. That is an exceptionally long winded 2+2=4... And that really just proves the point, now, doesn't it.mjoels
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:14 PM
1
01
14
PM
PDT
Virgil Cain,
You can demonstrate, 100% of the time, that 2+2=4.
In other words, you can prove that 2 + 2 = 4, correct? See this, for example.daveS
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:07 PM
1
01
07
PM
PDT
We use self-evident axioms to define what "2" "+" and "=" means. The 'proof' given by REC to apparently argue against the self-evident truth uses self-evident axioms (e.g. 2 is an integer).Silver Asiatic
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:02 PM
1
01
02
PM
PDT
To those who believe I am too hard on REC when I call his attempt at sophistry “pathetic,” I say all sophistry is dishonest. Every attempt at sophistry is essentially a lie. The sophist knows the truth; yet he employs sophistry in an effort to point people away from the truth. “Pathetic” is the kindest thing I can say of such.Barry Arrington
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
01:01 PM
1
01
01
PM
PDT
REC believes "logorrhea" = "proof." That is kind of pathetic. REC, are you really expecting us to believe that you did not immediately apprehend that 2+2=4 prior to reading that? That was a rhetorical question. To respond further, "prove" does not mean "talk a lot." For example, I could pull the same stunt REC did linguistically. I could say a number is a mathematical object used to count, measure and label. An "integer" means a number that can be written without a fractional component. Two is the English word for the integer between one and three. And if I have one set with two members and another set with two members and I combine them the resulting set will have four members. Therefore, two plus two equals four. None of that "proves" that two plus two equals four. It is merely a wordier way of saying the same thing.Barry Arrington
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
12:48 PM
12
12
48
PM
PDT
You can demonstrate, 100% of the time, that 2+2=4. Self-evidentVirgil Cain
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
12:29 PM
12
12
29
PM
PDT
An example of a self-evident claim is that 2+2+4. I cannot “prove” that 2+2=4. Proof of theorem 1 Two plus two equals four: http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/as2446/224.pdfREC
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
12:25 PM
12
12
25
PM
PDT
BA, A good post. However, there is one other key feature to self-evident truths, when one attempts to deny them, the result is immediately and patently absurd. Once, you have sufficient background experience of reality to understand what is meant when the truth is asserted. (That can be a problem; as Aquinas pointed out, i.e. there is such a thing as a pons asinorum.) True per understanding what is being said, necessarily true and this on pain of immediate patent absurdity on attempted dismissal or denial. The problem we are seeing is one of lack of understanding, as is manifest in the confusion between the obvious or apparent and the properly self-evident. This is backed up by clinging to absurdity due to ideological programming, dominance of agendas and the like. In the case of moral SETs, too often there is endarkenment due to the hardness of heart and/or the need to benumb oneself to fend off guilt and linked cognitive dissonance. I think it is critical to underscore, too, that when one believes error to be truth, the real truth will usually contradict it and therefore will seem false to you. But error will soon enough manifest its true status, on close examination. But that can be hard, and may require for one's life to go crash for it to be believed. Pain and grief do a lot to open closed minds and hardened hearts, if we are willing to listen to that still small voice saying, y'know, you were wrong way back there and that's why this is happening, why things have fallen apart. KFkairosfocus
August 31, 2015
August
08
Aug
31
31
2015
12:25 PM
12
12
25
PM
PDT
1 6 7 8

Leave a Reply