An astrophysicist explains:
If we didn’t have the Pauli Exclusion Principle to prevent multiple fermions from having the same quantum state, our Universe would be extremely different. Every atom would have almost identical properties to hydrogen, making the possible structures we could form extremely simplistic. White dwarf stars and neutron stars, held up in our Universe by the degeneracy pressure provided by the Pauli Exclusion Principle, would collapse into black holes. And, most horrifically, carbon-based organic compounds — the building blocks of all life as we know it — would be an impossibility for us.Ethan Siegel, “This Little-Known Quantum Rule Makes Our Existence Possible” at Forbes
Paging Hugh Ross… 😉
See also: Fungus found that can oxidize gold
Rob Sheldon: Researchers Showed That The Carbon State Of The Universe IS Fine-Tuned
and
What becomes of science when the evidence does not matter?
Follow UD News at Twitter!
This quote from the article,,,
,,, is very similar to this quote,,,
Moreover, the quote I highlighted from the article in the OP, adds further weight to the following article,,, “In the following article entitled ‘Quantum physics problem proved unsolvable: Gödel and Turing enter quantum physics’, which studied the derivation of macroscopic properties from a complete microscopic description, the researchers remark that even a perfect and complete description of the microscopic properties of a material is not enough to predict its macroscopic behaviour.,,, The researchers further commented that their findings challenge the reductionists’ point of view, as the insurmountable difficulty lies precisely in the derivation of macroscopic properties from a microscopic description.”
And herein lies the irresolvable dilemma for reductive materialists, i.e. for Darwinists, the architectural plans and/or blueprints for how any given organism might achieve its basic biological form is simply not reducible to DNA or to any other material particulars within biology that they might wish to invoke.
Also of related interest, Wolfgang Pauli, for whom the Pauli exclusion principle is named after, had this to say about Darwinian evolution,,, “While they (Darwinian biologists) pretend to stay in this way completely ‘scientific’ and ‘rational,’ they become actually very irrational, particularly because they use the word ‘chance’, not any longer combined with estimations of a mathematically defined probability, in its application to very rare single events more or less synonymous with the old word ‘miracle.’”
Too funny, according to Pauli, although Darwinists deny miracles happen, mathematically speaking Darwinists are still very much reliant on miracles after all.
Verse:
So here we are, living in a thin film of atmosphere surrounding a small, rocky planet, shielded from the worst effects of solar and cosmic radiation by a magnetic field. Even here, it’s not exactly a bed of roses what with earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, wildfires to name but a few.. But step outside our little Garden of Eden without extraordinary protective measures and you will find yourself dead in short order. The fact is that the overwhelming majority of this unimaginably vast Universe is relentlessly hostile to life such as ourselves. It may well be that this Universe could not exist if the values of certain fundamental constants were to fluctuate by even a small amount but to suggest that it was all fine-tuned for us is absurd on its face.
Hello Seversky @2
You misunderstand the claim of “Fine-tuning” as it is used by those who make that claim. They do not claim, that the universe is fine-tuned “for us human beings”. Also they don’t claim that the universe is “fine-tuned to contain life everywhere within the universe”. They claim, that no life at all would be possible anywhere in the universe, if the constants of the physical laws and the initial conditions weren’t fine-tuned. Having a universe that exists for any sensible length of time is only one condition among many.
You should read a good book about what fine-tuning is about, preferably by someone who doesn’t get it wrong. I recommend “A fortunate universe” by Lewis and Barnes. BTW in pages245ss it discusses more or less your point asking “how can the universe be fine-tuned, if it is mostly inhospitable to life?” Your contribution would be a lot better if it would incorporate answers to the points raised in that discussion. One point is “a universe full of life from end to end is impossible (for involved reasons discussed fully in the book)”. As it is you come off as someone quite uninformed about the problem discussed.
Seversky states,
Apparently Seversky presupposes that the entire universe, including the earth, should be a virtual heavenly paradise for life. Yet no Theist has ever claimed that the universe, or the earth in particular, is a heavenly paradise for life. Theism, and Christianity in particular, has always claimed that we live in a fallen world that is subjected to death and decay. In fact, Christianity in particular is vitally dependent on us living in a fallen world. i.e. Christ could hardly be miraculously resurrected from the dead if death were not, in fact, a pervasive facet of this universe in the first place.
Moreover, exactly how is Seversky able to judge that we live in a less than perfect world in the first place?
The ability of Seversky’s immaterial mind to be able to judge that we live in a less than perfect world in the first place is in and of itself self-refuting to Seversky’s atheistic materialism. As C S Lewis pointed out,,, “A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line.”
As to this claim from Seversky in particular,
Really??? And other than your self-refuting apriori aesthetic preference for living in a heavenly paradise, what actual physical scientific evidence do you have that humans are not ‘special’ in this universe?
In the recent past, you, as an atheist, could have appealled to the Copernican Principle, and/or the Principle of mediocrity to say humanity had no significance in this universe. But now both General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, our two most powerful theories in science, have now overturned the Copernican Principle, and/or the Principle of mediocrity.
Moreover, to put a cherry on top of the cake, Robin Collins, building off the work of Gonzalez, predicted and confirmed that the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMB) is such “as to maximize the intensity of the CMB as observed by typical observers.”
https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/uses-and-misuses-of-the-anthropic-principle/#comment-674228
Moreover, on top of all that, Chemistry itself reveals “fine-tuning which (is) clearly for advanced being like ourselves.”
Thus Seversky, not only is your philosophical basis of atheistic materialism self refuting of your claim that humanity is not ‘special’ in this universe, (i.e. CS Lewis), but the current state of scientific evidence itself, from our most powerful theories ever in the history of science, refutes your claim that humanity is not special in this universe.
Moreover Seversky, before you trying to undermine Theism by any means you can possibly find, I suggest that you should first seriously look at the foundations of your own atheistic worldview and see how utterly incoherent it is a rational worldview: Simply put, atheistic materialism is completely insane!
Seversky:
LoL! Was that supposed to be an argument? That is absurd on its face. 😛
Hgp @ 3
Hi
I am probably not as well-versed in fine-tuning theory as you. That said, I do allow that many in the science community, like Fred Hoyle, look at various physical phenomena and have a hard time believing that such things could have come about accidentally. They think the whole thing looks rigged, that some intelligent agency must have been behind it, even if they don’t think that intelligent agent was necessarily the Christian God.
However, if you have been here long enough, you will know that the Intelligent Design/Creationist community do take fine-tuning to be evidence of their God’s handiwork and, for me, that view runs straight into the objections I raised.
My position is that we have no answers to the questions of why there is anything at all and why what does exist is the way that it is. They are the most profound mysteries, which are not answered by postulating a creator God or Intelligent Designer. As a long-time Trekkie, I have no problem with the concept of some vast super-intelligence which dwarfs us here on our little planet. The aforementioned Fred Hoyle even touched on it in his science-fiction novel The Black Cloud. But, so far, I’m seeing a lot of speculation but nothing that is particularly persuasive, not that my opinion counts for much.
Sev writes,
That is a nice short succinct statement that I agree with 100%, FTR.
seversky:
So your side is all about ignorance. Got it.
That is your ignorant opinion. Why should anyone listen to you?
We posit an Intelligent Designer due to our KNOWLEDGE of cause and effect relationships in accordance with science. What do you have beyond denial of that?
LoL! Your entire position is based on ignorance and the speculation from that.
hazel:
So you don’t like science and the inferences it generates. Got it
Seversky states that
Yet he does have a problem with the suggestion,,,,
And yet, the evidence that Seversky himself cited in post 2 for his claim that it is absurd to believe that “it was all fine-tuned for us” is the fact life here on earth is “not exactly a bed of roses” and moreover that the universe, beyond “our little Garden of Eden”, is very hostile to life.
How Seversky can possibly take this as evidence that the universe is not “fine-tuned for us” I have no idea.
Welcome to the insane world of atheistic metaphysics. Seversky basically concedes some “vast super-intelligence” could possibly be behind the fine-tuning of the universe, and also basically concedes that “our little Garden of Eden” is very rare in this universe, and yet, in a direct contradiction in logic, he holds “that it was all fine-tuned for us is absurd on its face.”
How someone can possibly get from the fact that the ability of the earth to host life in this universe is extremely rare to the conclusion “that it was all fine-tuned for us is absurd on its face”, I have no ‘earthly’ idea. But apparently in atheistic metaphysics such a direct contradiction in logic is readily accepted, even embraced, without a bat of an eyelid.
Of course, those of us who demand that arguments from atheists at least be coherent in their logic are under no obligation to accept such a blatant contradiction in logic on Seversky’s part and, in fact, will reject Seversky’s argument because it is logically self-refuting.
Moreover, besides the fact that the earth is shown to be extremely rare in its ability to host life in this universe,,,
Moreover, besides the fact that the earth is shown to be extremely rare in its ability to host life in this universe, another much more compelling piece of evidence that highlights just how unique our solar system and earth are in this universe are the anomalies that are now found in the “Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation” (CMBR).
The preceding article was written before the Planck data (with WMAP & COBE data), but the ‘multipoles’ were later verified by Planck data. At the 13:55 minute mark of this following video, Max Tegmark, an atheist who specializes in this area of study, finally admits, post Planck 2013, that the CMBR anomalies do indeed line up with the earth and solar system
Here is an excellent clip from the documentary “The Principle” that explains, in an easy to understand manner, how these ‘anomalies’, that line up with the earth and solar system, were found, via ‘averaging out’, in the tiny temperature variations in the CMBR data.
In other words, the “tiny temperature variations” in the CMBR, reveal teleology, (i.e. a goal directed purpose, a plan), that specifically included the earth from the start. ,,, The earth, from what our best science can now tell us, is not some random cosmic fluke as atheists presupposed, but was purposely intended from the start of the universe.
Moreover, as was mentioned previously, contrary to the popularly held belief that the Copernican principle has rendered any belief in the special status of the earth in this universe, and for humanity in particular, null and void,,, contrary to that popular belief, the fact of the matter is that both General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, our two most powerful and accurately verified theories ever in the history of science, have themselves now overturned the Copernican principle and/or the principle of mediocrity as being a valid principle in science.
Moreover, by allowing agent causality back into the picture of modern physics, as quantum physics itself now demands with the closing of the free will loop-hole by Anton Zielinger and company, and as the Christian founders of modern physics originally envisioned, (Sir Isaac Newton, James Clerk Maxwell, Michael Faraday, and Max Planck, to name a few), then a empirically backed reconciliation, (via the Shroud of Turin), between Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity, i.e. the ‘Theory of Everything’, readily pops out for us in Christ’s resurrection from the dead.
Here are a few posts where I lay out and defend some of the evidence for that claim:
To give us a small glimpse of the power that was involved in Christ resurrection from the dead, the following recent article found that, ”it would take 34 Thousand Billion Watts of VUV radiations to make the image on the shroud. This output of electromagnetic energy remains beyond human technology.”
Thus, Seversky’s argument that it is absurd to believe “that it was all fine-tuned for us” in now contradicted by several lines of powerful scientific evidence. ,, Seversky may, philosophically, not like the scientific findings one bit, but his refusal to accept the scientific findings is not the Christian’s problem. It is Seversky’s own psychological problem that he has brought on himself by his refusal to humble himself before God. Indeed, that he has brought on himself by his open hostility towards God and even his open hostility towards Christians, (a irrational hostility towards God and Christians which he has openly voiced many times here on UD).
But alas, regardless of whatever faux moral outrage Seversky tries to falsely imagine against God (and Christians), the scientific evidence could care less about Seversky’s faux moral outrage and, on the other hand, the Christian can take great comfort that the findings of modern science have confirmed his most basic beliefs that Jesus Christ is Lord of all creation and that the universe, and our life in it, is not without any real meaning and/or significance as the atheist falsely holds to be true..
Verse:
Bornagain77 @ 4
No, I accept the Universe as it is. I am no longer a Christian who believes that I am the pinnacle of my “loving” God’s creation who must reconcile that belief with living in a “created” Universe which is somewhat less than an ideal habitat for creatures like us. Indeed, one might also be tempted to wonder if God had some other favored race in mind when He designed the place, not us.
That would be a bit difficult given the way the Universe appears to be.
Yes, the whole “fallen world” thing is one way out of the dilemma, I suppose. Except it raises more questions than it answers. Why were Adam and Eve forbidden to eat the fruit? What was wrong with them knowing the difference between Good and Evil? And we are talking about an all-powerful and all-knowing God here. If he wanted them to be immune to the blandishments of talking snakes, why didn’t He design them that way? He had the knowledge. He had the power. So He had the choice. If they fell from grace it was because that’s the way He designed them to behave. And if they behaved the way He designed them to behave, how could He punish them? Worse than that, He didn’t just punish them, He inflicted it on all their descendants in perpetuity. Where is the justice in punishing the descendants of an offender for an offense that they didn’t commit because it happened before they were born? This whole Fall thing is incoherent nonsense.
As for the resurrection, Jesus as the Son of God is immortal by definition. He cannot be destroyed. If He survived the death of his physical body it was because, dare I say it, that was His nature. And if you accept as true what Christianity teaches about the nature of Christ then there was no miracle. That was just an immortal deity doing His thing.
I see terrible crimes, diseases, famine, tornadoes, earthquakes, acts of terrorism, TV reality show hosts in the White House. What more do you need?
I’m pretty sure even C S Lewis knew it was a bad idea to walk in front of a speeding bus. He didn’t need an omniscient God to tell him.
What do you mean by “special”? How do you know we are? What’s the evidence?
Let me also note that you and I have very different standards of what constitute powerful lines of evidence. Cosmic curiosities and coincidences are certainly intriguing but do not rise to the standard of incontrovertible evidence for the existence of an Intelligent Designer/Creator.
Seversky, if ever there were an exercise in superficial theological and philosophical flatulence, your post is it.
Get back to me when you have some real scientific evidence to support your position instead of just you passing the bad gas of your own personal atheistic opinions.
Bornagain77 @ 10
Would you, as a Creator, place your most cherished creation on a planet that is periodically in the path of flares of intense radiation erupting from the parent star. Why would you fine-tune your Universe to do that?
Would you, as a Creator, site that planet in a solar system filled with high-velocity debris, ranging from specks of dust to huge planet-killing asteroids? Why would you fine-tune your Universe to do that?
Would you, as a Creator, place that solar system in a galaxy where stars explode into supernovae periodically, the radiation from which, if close enough, would wipe your creation from the surface of the planet? Why would you fine-tune your Universe to do that?
Would you, as a Creator, populate your Universe with black holes that could easily suck your creation’s entire solar system into oblivion? Why would you fine-tune your Universe to do that?
The fact is that the reality of the Universe we observe is seriously at odds with the notion of a Creator who wants to provide the best for the creatures He supposedly loves and cherishes. Once again, the Universe may have been fine-tuned but it doesn’t look like it was for our benefit.
Sev@14, I agree that the idea of the universe being finely tuned for us. You can’t even say that about earth. Earthquakes, floods, volcanoes, tornados hurricanes, plagued, etc. The most that can be said is that earth is adequate for the survival of life as we know it. But, given that there is life here, it would have to be.
Seversky, you conceded that some “vast super-intelligence” could possibly be behind the fine-tuning of the universe, and also basically conceded that “our little Garden of Eden” is very rare in this universe. But then you, in a direct contradiction in logic, claimed “that it was all fine-tuned for us is absurd on its face.”
To remind you of what your atheistic position actually holds, the position of atheists is that life is NOT special on the earth. In fact, sans Carl Sagan, SETI, and NASA’s exoplanet exploration, atheists presuppose that planets that are able to host life should be fairly common in this universe. But that is not what we have found. It turns out that planets that are able to host life are exceedingly rare in this universe.
,,, And that is just the probability of getting a life supporting planet in the universe,,, that does not even take into account the probability against ‘simple’ life appearing on that life supporting planet or against advanced life forms accidentally evolving from that ‘simple’ life on that life supporting planet,,
Moreover, that is just simple life. When we factor in the existence of intelligent life, i.e. ourselves, the odds get even worse for atheists
As William Lane Craig quipped, ” if evolution did occur, it literally would have been a miracle and evidence for the existence of God.”
Along that same line:
Thus, as far as science itself is concerned, your starting atheistic presupposition that life should be fairly common in this universe is all but falsified. Whereas the Theistic presupposition that the earth is unique in this universe in its ability to host life is strongly supported by the scientific evidence that we now have available to us:
Thus Seversky you have literally ZERO scientific evidence supporting your starting atheistic position that life should be fairly common in this universe, whereas, once again, the Christian Theist can appeal directly to the scientific evidence itself to support his position that the earth is extremely unique in this universe in its ability to support life.
Yet Seversky, since you are a dogmatic atheist who could care less about what the scientific evidence itself actually says, what do you do? Well just like Darwin himself did in his book “Origin”, since you cannot appeal to actual scientific evidence to support your position, you have appealed, in post 14, to bad Theological argumentation about how you personally prefer God to have created the universe. In fact, on four separate occasions in post you state, “Would you, as a Creator,” allow such and such.
In case you have not noticed Seversky, that is NOT a scientific argument in support of your atheistic position but is a Theological argument!
Moreover, this type of theological argumentation is a self refuting argument for you, a dogmatic atheist, to make. In short, Theology itself, not scientific evidence, is essential to your argument. In fact, without “God-talk” your argument collapses in on itself since you have ZERO scientific evidence supporting your claim. As Cornelius van Til quipped, the atheist is “like the child who must climb up onto his father’s lap into order to slap his face.”
Seversky, your appeal to bad Theological argumentation, instead of any substantiating scientific evidence that your atheistic position is actually true, is not surprising. From Darwin onward, Atheists have constantly relied on bad Theological argumentation to try to make their case:
For someone, such as yourself, who supposedly toes the methodological naturalism party line, (a position in which an appeal to God is forbidden), to say this rampant abuse of Theological argumentation in order to support atheism is cheating would be an understatement. But alas, since atheistic metaphysics is completely insane as a worldview, I guess railing against how God actually created the universe and how much better you would have created the earth and the universe if you were God, is all you, a dogmatic atheist who could care less about truth and actual scientific evidence, have got left.