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Stone Carver of the Gaps

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I just got back from a couple of weeks in Israel, where I visited the ruins of the ancient city of Capernaum on the shores of the Sea of Galilee and saw this stone:

Capernaum Rock

An “expert” at the site insisted that this stone bears the marks of a 1st century Jewish stone carver.  “But,” I asked him, “as a scientist are you not bound by the strictures of methodological naturalism?  Your explanation for the markings is a classic example of the ‘stone carver of the gaps’ fallacy, and you should be ashamed of yourself.  The methods of science demand that we favor a naturalistic explanation for the markings on this stone, and it seems to me that ‘weathering’ is the best hypothesis.  Indeed, it is the only reasonable hypothesis unless we are willing to let the IDiots get a foot in the door.” 

Comments
A design inference can detect design but it cannot detect the identity of the designer. Either a Divine or human agency could leave behind functionally specified complex information.
Exactly. We don't know that it was a human that made that carving, since none of us were there.soplo caseosa
April 25, 2008
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BarryA, you may have experience with miracles. Alas, I do not, and neither has anybody I know in a way that's not better explained naturally.evo_materialist
April 25, 2008
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-----Ej Klone: "Pardon me for disagreeing Barry, but humans are natural entities. It does not violate methodological naturalism to say that a human designed something. In fact, I think natural intelligences are to be preferred above supernatural intelligences in design detection, for the simple reason that we have experience with the former, but not the latter." You misunderstand the methodology. A design inference can detect design but it cannot detect the identity of the designer. Either a Divine or human agency could leave behind functionally specified complex information. In any case, the notion that "humans are natural entities" implies that humans are "solely" natural entities. You are assuming that humans cannot possilby have non-material minds, the effects of which are very things that ID detects.StephenB
April 25, 2008
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Challenging post and interesting commenst. But there are gray areas that leave one wondering - like the Yonaguni 'Monuments' off the coast of Japan.Timothy V Reeves
April 25, 2008
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Barry, You are 110% correct. I salute you, sir! EJ Klone, Human bodies are natural entities, but human minds are not naturalistic causes. Minds cannot be observed at all; they're causal efficacy must be inferred from the effects they produce. This is true with all minds other than your own--even other humans.crandaddy
April 24, 2008
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"I never said anything about a supernatural intelligence. Why are you injecting the supernatural?" You did: "bound by the strictures of methodological naturalism" And EJ told you that: "Pardon me for disagreeing Barry, but humans are natural entities. It does not violate methodological naturalism to say that a human designed something." But I have another problem with your text: We often use XXX-of-the-gaps-inferences.An Argumentum ad Ignorantiam can be a GOOD argument. But there is a problem: You know, that there was something I call a "potential designer" ( a intelligence being able and having the motives to design)in the 1st century - you can't know whether there was one a billion years ago. In all the fine-tuning-arguments the Designer has to be supernatural - but it isn' proven that there is a potential designer of that kind (like it is proven for the 1st century). The "believe" in the 1st-century-man is transsubjective - the theistic believe is only intersubjective. So you have totally different situations here. ‘stone carver of the gaps’ fallacyChristopherSaint
April 24, 2008
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I think we can confirm that this so-called 'expert' there in the Holy Land, probably does not understand the deeper implications of his unwillingness to admit that the stone block was carved by humans. Such people, like this man or PZ Meyers or Allen MacNeill, would rather face the gaping maw of the Gates of Hell and claim there is no God than to admit their own sins. BarryA I am intrigued, did this so called expert admit that he really had no idea who carved this stone? It sems that your incisive question left him with little options outside of attempting to cover the crime with ad hominems or non sequitors such as the sort of argumentation we see from the evolutionary materialists.irreducible_complacency
April 24, 2008
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Arrrrg! My comments on my own post are going into moderation. When will it end?BarryA
April 24, 2008
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Klone writes: "I think natural intelligences are to be preferred above supernatural intelligences in design detection . . ." I never said anything about a supernatural intelligence. Why are you injecting the supernatural? ". . . we have experience with the former, but not the latter." Says who? You are repeating Hume's error of circular reasoning. "Miracles do not happen because they are counter to universal experience." In other words, "miracles do not happen because miracles do not happen." That may satisfy you and Hume. Those who would like to have their conclusions demonstrated rather than assumed might not be as impressed.BarryA
April 24, 2008
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Pardon me for disagreeing Barry, but humans are natural entities. It does not violate methodological naturalism to say that a human designed something. In fact, I think natural intelligences are to be preferred above supernatural intelligences in design detection, for the simple reason that we have experience with the former, but not the latter. I believe the same holds true for the design we are discovering in life. True, independent confirmation would be necessary to establish this, but we've got a leg up by recognizing the design inputs in the first place. Evolutionists can't confirm ANYTHING!EJ Klone
April 24, 2008
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