Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

That notorious ID paper was the one most downloaded from the Journal…

Denyse O'Leary
October 19, 2020
Academic Freedom, Intelligent Design, Peer review
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Readers, you remember surely… that ID-friendly paper at the Journal of Theoretical Biology by Thorvaldsen and Hossjer? It got through the cracks. Even got through the Twitter summit.

And the anguished screams from the editors that they didn’t know that the paper leaned toward design in nature… Never mind the stern rebuttal letter.

Hey, chill. Media hacks call that the Banned in Boston effect. Here is how you can know that the media hacks are right:

What is the top download paper in that stable? Yes!

Noise overheard from the Uncommon Descent News Coffee Room, Free Bagels Hour: “Eventually, people, we are going to have to start rewarding the Darwinians for banning and persecuting advocates of design in nature.

Look, guys, it’s only fair. Mediocrities steam themselves into near oblivion to destroy the idea and their efforts only fan the flames. Sadly, all we wanted was a serious discussion. We never asked them to be Roman candles.”

Comments
ET - some of us have knowledge about this that goes beyond one article. One can argue what exactly is "hefty", but for most journals it's of the order of 2-3 thousand dollars. If you're lucky, your funding agency or country will have negotiated a deal, but that isn't guaranteed.Bob O'H
October 20, 2020
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What is the basic open access fee? Have any of you checked? And what is 'hefty'? You guys are just arguing to argue.JVL
October 20, 2020
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Earth to Mac and cheese- Grow up and learn how to read. GOLD open access is different than open access. Looks like all of the problems are yours, punk. There isn’t anywhere in the article that says anything about paying a hefty fee for OPEN ACCESS. AND, as the article says, the research funder would be paying if the researcher did it correctly- all of the fees should have been included in the grant. You are supposed to figure out your expenses before submitting.ET
October 20, 2020
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In my calculus paper, after passing peer review, the journal would publish it for free, but I had to pay $900 to make it open-access. https://www.academia.edu/37619039/Extending_the_Algebraic_Manipulability_of_Differentialsjohnnyb
October 20, 2020
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Mac
Aaron, as far as I know, authors don’t get paid extra for publishing open access papers. I think they have to pay a hefty fee. But I could be wrong.
ET
Yes, Mac and cheese is wrong, again: There isn’t anywhere in the article that says anything about paying a hefty fee for open access.
It looks like reading comprehension is one of ET’s many problems.
Articles are freely available to both subscribers and the wider public with permitted reuse. An open access publication fee is payable by authors or their research funder. To provide gold open access, this journal has a publication fee which needs to be met by the authors or their research funders for each article published open access. The gold open access publication fee for this journal is USD 2600, excluding taxes.
Mac McTavish
October 20, 2020
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Pound sand, Bob. It means that it is an oversimplification. And it means that Mac was wrong. There isn't anywhere in the article that says anything about paying a hefty fee for open access. Again, your reading comprehension issues have surfaced.ET
October 20, 2020
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Yes, ET, I can read for comprehension. Unlike you. "it is important to note a common oversimplification..." means that it is a simplification, not that it is totally wrong. As a general rule, Mac McTavish is right, but there are exceptions. Which is what Michaela Panter is pointing out in that paragraph.Bob O'H
October 20, 2020
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Holy cow, Bob O'H- can you read for comprehension? Apparently not: it is important to note a common oversimplification I didn't quote-mine, Bob. You just cannot read for comprehension.ET
October 20, 2020
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ET - well done on that quote-mine. Here's how that paragraph starts:
Before addressing this slew of questions, it is important to note a common oversimplification: that traditional journals are solely based on a reader-pays model, in which institutional libraries typically pay for access to content, and that open access journals, supporting “unrestricted access and unrestricted reuse,” are always based on an author-pays model (see our article on open access myths for more information).
Bob O'H
October 20, 2020
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Authors who want to publish outside of the usual channels always have to pay. This has always been true. Vanity press and samizdat are costly. If you want to publish for free, or get paid, you MUST accept that you are simply a subcontractor, and you MUST give control to the publisher. You have to let the publisher decide whether to publish and how much to censor. The fake "freeness" of the web has spoiled us. We assume that we are entitled to be paid for using the enemy's presses and broadcasting studios. This entitlement never existed, and still doesn't exist.polistra
October 20, 2020
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Yes, Mac and cheese is wrong, again: Understanding Submission and Publication Fees
In other words, as an author, you may have to pay for submission to and/or publication in a subscription-based journal and may not have to do so for an open access one. The latter concept is made possible by alternative sources of revenue that cover the costs of the editorial, peer review, and publication processes, such as paywalled premium content, advertising, or subsidy by a journal’s affiliated foundation or society. Note also that for both traditional and open access publications that do entail so-called “author” charges, you may not have to pay these fees in full because of discounts related to institutional membership programs, your own society membership, or waivers of service (such as if in-house copyediting is not needed). Moreover, you may not have to pay full or even discounted fees due to waivers based on either financial hardship or your country of origin’s economic status or due to coverage by your institution, department, or funder/grant; in fact, for open access publication, only 5% to 12% of fees are ever paid using personal funds.
ET
October 20, 2020
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It is very telling that there aren't any peer-reviewed papers that support blind watchmaker evolution. Nothing to download.ET
October 20, 2020
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On the Open Access issue, Norway has an agreement with Elsevier to make all papers open access (where the corresponding author is from one of the Norwegian institutes signed up to this). On the high readership, that's no surprise. JTB is a niche journal, so a paper like this that gets wider coverage will have a much higher readership.Bob O'H
October 20, 2020
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Darwinian clowns ...martin_r
October 20, 2020
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Aaron, as far as I know, authors don’t get paid extra for publishing open access papers. I think they have to pay a hefty fee. But I could be wrong. Maybe those here who have published papers could inform us. ET? KF? WJM?Mac McTavish
October 19, 2020
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Yeah and it’s also competing with other papers what are the authors pay as open accessAaronS1978
October 19, 2020
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To put it in context, authors who pay to have their papers published as open access have a much higher download rate.Mac McTavish
October 19, 2020
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