Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

To recognize design is to recognize products of a like-minded process, identifying the real probability in question, Part I

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

“Take the coins and dice and arrange them in a way that is evidently designed.” That was my instruction to groups of college science students who voluntarily attended my extra-curricular ID classes sponsored by Campus Crusade for Christ at James Madison University (even Jason Rosenhouse dropped in a few times). Many of the students were biology and science students hoping to learn truths that are forbidden topics in their regular classes…

They would each have two boxes, and each box contained dice and coins. They were instructed to randomly shake one box and then put designs in the other box. While they did their work, I and another volunteer would leave the room or turn our backs. After the students were done building their designs, I and the volunteer would inspect each box, and tell the students which boxes we felt contained a design, and the students would tell us if we passed or failed to recognize their designs. We never failed!

Granted, this was not a rigorous experiment, but the exercise was to get the point across that even with token objects like coins and dice, one can communicate design.

So what is the reason that human designs were recognized in the classroom exercise? Is it because one configuration of coins and dice are inherently more improbable than any other? Let us assume for the sake of argument that no configuration is more improbable than any other, why then do some configurations seem more special than others with respect to design? The answer is that some configurations suggest a like-minded process was involved in the assembly of the configuration rather than a chance process.

A Darwinist once remarked:

if you have 500 flips of a fair coin that all come up heads, given your qualification (“fair coin”), that is outcome is perfectly consistent with fair coins,

Law of Large Numbers vs. Keiths

But what is the real probability in question? It clearly isn’t about the probability of each possible 500-coin sequence, since each sequence is just as improbable as any other. Rather the probability that is truly in question is the probability our minds will recognize a sequence that conforms to our ideas of a non-random outcome. In other words, outcomes that look like “the products of a like-minded process, not a random process”. This may be a shocking statement so let me briefly review two scenarios.

A. 500-fair coins are discovered heads up on a table. We recognized it to be a non-random event based on the law of large numbers as described in The fundamental law of Intelligent Design.

B. 500-fair are discovered on a table. The coins were not there the day before. Each coin on the table is assigned a number 1-500. The pattern of heads and tails looks at first to be nothing special with 50% of the coins being heads. But then we find that the pattern of coins matches a blueprint that had been in a vault as far back as a year ago. Clearly this pattern also is non-random, but why?

The naïve and incorrect answer is “the probability of that pattern is 1 out of 2^500, therefore the event is non-random”. But that is the wrong answer since every other possible coin pattern has a chance of occurring of 1 out of 2^500 times.

The correct answer as to why the coin arrangement is non-random is “it conforms to blueprints”, or using ID terminology, “it conforms to independent specifications”. The independent specification in scenario B is the printed blueprint that had been stored away in the vault, the independent specification of scenario A is all-coins heads “blueprint” that is implicitly defined in our minds and math books.

The real probability at issue is the probability the independent specification will be realized by a random process.

We could end the story of scenario B by saying that a relative or friend put the design together as a surprise present to would-be observers that had access to the blueprint. But such a detail would only confirm what we already knew, that the coin configuration on the table was not the product of a random process, but rather a human-like, like-minded process.

I had an exchange with Graham2, where I said:

But what is it about that particular pattern [all fair coins heads] versus any other. Is it because the pattern is not consistent with the expectation of a random pattern? If so, then the pattern is special by its very nature.

to which Graham2 responded:

No No No No. There is nothing ‘special’ about any pattern. We attach significance to it because we like patterns, but statistically, there is nothing special about it. All sequences (patterns) are equally likely. They only become suspicious if we have specified them in advance.

Comment, Fundamental Law of ID

Whether Grahams2 is right or wrong is a moot point. Statistical tests can be used to reject chance as the explanation that certain artifacts look like the products of a like-minded process. The test is valid provided the blueprint wasn’t drawn up after the fact (postdictive blueprints).

A Darwinist will object and say, “that’s all well and fine, but we don’t have such blue prints for life. Give me sheet paper that has the blueprint of life and proof the blueprint was written before life began.” But the “blueprint” in question is already somewhat hard-wired into the human brain, that’s why in the exercise for the ID class, we never failed to detect design. Humans are like-minded and they make like-minded constructs that other humans recognize as designed.

The problem for Darwinism is that biological designs resemble human designs. Biological organisms look like like-minded designs except they look like they were crafted by a Mind far greater than any human mind. That’s why Dawkins said:

it was hard to be an atheist before Darwin: the illusion of living design is so overwhelming.

Richard Dawkins

Dawkins erred by saying “illusion of living design”, we know he should have said “reality of living design”. 🙂

How then can we reconstruct the blueprints embedded in the human mind in such a sufficiently rigorous way that we can then use the “blueprints” or independent specifications to perform statistical tests? How can we do it in a way that is unassailable to complaints of after-the-fact (postdictive) specifications?

That is the subject of Part II of this series. But briefly, I hinted toward at least a couple methods in previous discussions:

The fundamental law of Intelligent Design

Coordinated Complexity, the key to refuting single target and postdiction objections.

And there will be more to come, God willing.

NOTES

1. I mentioned “independent specification”. This obviously corresponds to Bill Dembksi’s notion of independent specification from Design Inference and No Free Lunch. I use the word blueprint to help illustrate the concept.

2. The physical coin patterns that conform to independent specifications can then be said to evidence specified improbability. I highly recommend the term “specified improbability” (SI) be used instead of Complex Specified Information (CSI). The term “Specified Improbability” is now being offered by Bill Dembski himself. I feel it more accurately describes what is being observed when identifying design, and the phrase is less confusing. See: Specified Improbability and Bill’s letter to me from way back.

3. I carefully avoided using CSI, information, or entropy to describe the design inference in the bulk of this essay. Those terms could have been used, but I avoided them to show that the problem of identifying design can be made with simpler more accessible arguments, and thus hopefully make the points more unassailable. This essay actually describes detection of CSI, but CSI has become such a loaded term in ID debates I refrained from using it. The phrase “Specified Improbability” conveys the idea better. The objects in the students’ boxes that were recognized as designed were improbable configurations that conformed to independent specifications, therefore they evidenced specified improbability, therefore they were designed.

Comments
Sal: So we both agree that the PI case is suspicious, but why ? It satisfys your std dev test (I presume), so why is it suspicious ? You seem to be suggesting that it matches a recognizable pattern, but thats exactly what Ive been agreeing with all along.Graham2
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
01:37 PM
1
01
37
PM
PDT
SC: Pi in bin seems hard to come by to 10^6 or so listed digits. Best I came up with is 32k+, here. But of course, without claiming a proof, I note that again we have a clash between uncorrelated deterministic entities so we should expect to get effective randomness . . . especially as pi goes on forever. KF PS: Onlookers may get a kick out of a discussion of that here, which does not bring out the little problem that searching out the relevant items is a solar system and observed cosmos scale supertask.kairosfocus
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
10:48 AM
10
10
48
AM
PDT
fifthmonarchyman, Wow. Long time no see! Thanks for dropping in. Salscordova
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
09:25 AM
9
09
25
AM
PDT
So could you answer the question about the PI case … would you regard this with any suspicion ? Sal ?
Yes. To illustrate why just use the procedure outlined in https://uncommondescent.com/computer-science/illustrating-embedded-specification-and-specified-improbability-with-specially-labeled-coins/ So use red numbered labels to specify PI. If "all red labels are up" after a random process, then imagine the first binary digits of PI generated by a random shaking of coins. :shock: Here are some of the first digits:
11. 00100100 00111111 01101010 10001000 10000101 10100011 00001000 11010011 00010011 00011001 10001010 00101110 00000011 01110000 01110011 01000100 10100100 00001001 00111000 00100010 00101001 10011111 00110001 11010000 00001000 00101110 11111010 10011000 11101100 01001110 01101100 10001001 01000101 00101000 00100001 11100110 00111000 11010000 00010011 01110111 10111110 01010100 01100110 11001111 00110100 11101001 00001100 01101100 11000000 10101100 00101001 10110111 11001001 01111100 01010000 11011101 00111111 10000100 11010101 10110101 10110101 01000111 00001001 00010111
The reason this works is that humans can only in principle write down or conceive so many highly specific specifications. Try writing down how many specific sequences that are 500 binary digits long. You'll be hard pressed to find anything that reaches 2^500. On earth there are only 2^149 atoms, so you won't even be able to take all 500-bit sequences from the printed books of history and fiction, all the sentences every person has ever spoken that was recorded and then locate it in a random sea of 2^500 sequences. 500 seems like tiny number. Agree, but 2^500 is big, and if we go to 1000 coins, then 2^1000 is astronomical relative to 2^500. That's why Bill Dembski went to a lot of trouble to estimate how likely it was we'd be able to use the following metaphors to describe biology: code control error correction language interpreter feedback sensor redundancy translation transcription wing gear wheel copy blueprint etc. How difficult is it to project engineering metaphors onto biology? You can't do that with a rock. But biological organisms seem so amenable to these metaphors. Compare then the class exercise in the OP. It was relatively easy to project my hard-wired and learned patterns onto the students designs and recognize them as designs. Detecting designs in biology is detecting patterns that conform to engineering designs. It's no coincidence ID seems to be over represented by engineers. They find it outrageous a chance hypothesis in a pre-biotic soup could even synthesize the first DNA/protein system in the ancestral cell at a the nano-level where there is tons of thermal and quantum noise to destroy any would-be pre-cursor of a cell rather quickly.scordova
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
09:11 AM
9
09
11
AM
PDT
G2: Have you done basic statistical mechanics? Try this class slide show, paying particular attention to the pattern of dominant clusters explained in slides 1 - 6, esp. the diag in 4. The links to the statistical principles behind the 2nd law of thermodynamics should be clear. KF PS: For tossed coins that dominant cluster tends to be near 50-50 in no particular order.kairosfocus
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
04:39 AM
4
04
39
AM
PDT
SC, 95:
You said it’s a psychological effect, and I actually agreed with you. Some IDists find that uncomfortable, btw. The problem however, is that with respect to all coins heads, the target has been well known throughout human history in as much as humans like simple repetitive patterns, and all coins heads is only an extension of a pre-existing fixed target.
With CSI as a broad thing, yes that is often true. But you are very close to why I have focussed our attention on functionally specific complex organisation and/or associated information [FSCO/I]. The isolated target zone in the space of configs is there, but now there is an objective test: does this thing work in a way that depends on configs? Scrambled text does not work, beyond a certain threshold. Scrambled genes, too. Scrambled car parts, scrambled electronic parts, scrambled programs etc etc etc. Hence the ideological rage to refuse to acknowledge this obvious reality. It is increasingly evident that we are up against the ideologised, closed, hostile mind, and that beyond a certain point we can only ring fence, and put up warning labels. The patent absurdities will in the end tell. But so long as entrenched power backs up absurdity, "it's dangerous to be right when city hall is wrong." Thus, the sadly revealing expelled phenomenon. KFkairosfocus
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
04:26 AM
4
04
26
AM
PDT
G2, 77:
The probability of any [--> INDIVIDUAL] sequence is (1/2)^n. Look it up.
True but a strawman, as I pointed out by highlighting INDIVIDUAL. In short, ti is maximally improbable to get any arbitrary specific 500-character sequence. But as the difference between garbage hands and valuable ones in card games shows, there are CLUSTERS of sequences that are of interest, that form isolated target zones in the config space of all sequences. By contrast there is an overwhelmingly dominant cluster of sequences that are near 50-50 and which hold not particularly interesting pattern or order or organisation. It is unsurprising to obtain by a chance process one of these. But, it IS highly unexpected to obtain one of the special sequences by such a process, but we know that patterns -- simple ones -- can be triggered by lawlike mechanisms [all H, all T, alternating H-T and the like, similar to crystals] and/or by design. The pattern 500-H, is an example of the simple repetitive pattern, which can be necessity or design mimicking necessity. And frankly, this fairly obvious distinction has been well known for a long time, so the plain point is this is a concept and perception gap triggered by ideological bias in a context of polarisation over the design inference. But, when you are a reasonably educated person and the matter has been pointed out to you in a reasonably clear way, then clinging to such a gap begins to look a lot like closed-mindedness. To show that you are not being closed minded, kindly accurately put the above in your own words, and then discuss it and its implications. KFkairosfocus
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
04:14 AM
4
04
14
AM
PDT
G2:
71 Graham2December 21, 2013 at 3:49 pm I think Neil @ 58 got it: If we were to label coins with many different symbols, not just H/T, then ALL outcomes would look random and we would be surprised about none of them. What used to be all H would now appear random, just like the rest. Yep, I will buy that.
Nope. For instance, X and Y would add informational features, it would not subtract the underlying ones. And if you were to write the alphabet's worth of characters over and over on coins scattered H vs T, it still would not change the fact that 500 coins all H will be maximally unlikely on a chance process. KFkairosfocus
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
03:54 AM
3
03
54
AM
PDT
oops, your browser!kairosfocus
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
03:25 AM
3
03
25
AM
PDT
PS: If you link the page, you can then use the in-page search feature of your blog to see if interesting digit strings crop up. I find that consistently, you may find 5 - 6 digits that strike us, but 7 up begins to get no hits. That looks like a threshold of 1 in a million . . . and that happens to be precisely the number of digits we have!kairosfocus
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
03:23 AM
3
03
23
AM
PDT
G2: The digits of pi are an example of the uncorrelated clash of two deterministic systems giving rise to effective, evident -- as opposed to proved -- randomness. The ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle has no necessary correlation with the decimal number place value notation system, and so it is no surprise that we can use tables of pi -- cf here 1 mn digits -- as random number tables for practical purposes. Of course, even pseudorandom numbers can be used as random numbers for many purposes. Here's a bloc:
84666104665392171482080130502298052637836426959733 70705392278915351056888393811324975707133102950443 03467159894487868471164383280506925077662745001220 03526203709466023414648998390252588830148678162196 77519458316771876275720050543979441245990077115205
Similarly, it is possible to use the local line loop codes -- phone numbers -- of telephones in a book as a poor man's random number table, based on the same root of chance. If you want effectively guaranteed chance digits, get a zener and drive a circuit that flattens out the distribution. Quantum noise. Sky noise may work as well. God old fashioned Johnson noise form a high value resistor would also work. KFkairosfocus
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
03:16 AM
3
03
16
AM
PDT
Apparantly, no one knows if the digits of PI are randomly distributed, its an unsolved problem, but it certainly appears that way.Graham2
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
02:41 AM
2
02
41
AM
PDT
And PI doesnt have that ?Graham2
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
02:29 AM
2
02
29
AM
PDT
PI The single highest movement from a 50/50 distribution would be 9 straight tosses of either heads or tails out of 500 tosses. That would not make me be suspcious of the sequence in terms of deviation. goodnightUpright BiPed
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
02:23 AM
2
02
23
AM
PDT
So could you answer the question about the PI case ... would you regard this with any suspicion ? Sal ?Graham2
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
02:09 AM
2
02
09
AM
PDT
You are probably right about the H/T distribution test. I dont mind that, but in general we are suspicious of outomes that dont ‘look’ random. The case of 500 heads would be suspicious on 2 counts: the unexpected distribution, and the fact that it matches what we regard as ‘unnatural’.
We regard them as "unnatural" only because we have studied them enough to know what "natural" is. This particular practice has served humanity very well. We look for both regularities and their counterparts. The incessant attempt to paint ID proponents as seeing "patterns everywhere" is cheap BS offered as a rhetorical placemat in leau of enaging the arguments that ID proponents actually make. The "500 fair coins" conversation has been a great testament to that attempt. You should not have stood on the trivial fact that a coin has two faces which are equally likely to appear - while ignoring the fact that coins have two faces that must equally appear as a regularity of the physical event known as a "fair coin toss".Upright BiPed
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
02:03 AM
2
02
03
AM
PDT
You are probably right about the H/T distribution test. I dont mind that, but in general we are suspicious of outomes that dont 'look' random. The case of 500 heads would be suspicious on 2 counts: the unexpected distribution, and the fact that it matches what we regard as 'unnatural'. My example of PI is a better test. The H/T distribution is (I presume) close to 50/50. Would you regard such an outcome as suspicious ?Graham2
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
01:26 AM
1
01
26
AM
PDT
If you tossed 250 heads straight, it would still deviate wildly from the known value of a fair coin toss. For some reason that seems to give you trouble understanding. Following that with 250 straight tails would not make it an even distribution. good grief.Upright BiPed
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
01:13 AM
1
01
13
AM
PDT
Again, you've lost your place in the conversation. The question you posed was -> why I would be suspicious if 500 fair coin tosses came up with all heads, and I gave my answer. The result of a fair coin toss is either one of two values, heads or tails, at roughly a 50/50 distribution. That is a known value of a physical event controlled by inexorable law. If the result deviates from that value by some wild factor, then I would have every right to be suspicious of that result. Do you disagree? The question that remains is why *you* would be suspicious of it ... setting aside the ridiculous answer that it's a psychological thing you carry around, having nothing whatsoever to do with the simple fact that it's a physical event with a known random distribution.Upright BiPed
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
01:10 AM
1
01
10
AM
PDT
If I tossed 250 heads then 250 tails, it also conforms exactly to the the expected distribution (50% heads), but you can probably see through that one.Graham2
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
12:43 AM
12
12
43
AM
PDT
So if I tossed 500 coins and the result represented the value of PI (correct to 500 bits) you wouldnt see any problem. None at all. A perfectly reasonable result. I see.Graham2
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
12:42 AM
12
12
42
AM
PDT
Is there a follow-on comment you'd like to make Graham?Upright BiPed
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
12:35 AM
12
12
35
AM
PDT
it deviates wildly from a random distributiuon of fair coin tosses .... Is that your explanation ?Graham2
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
12:21 AM
12
12
21
AM
PDT
Answer: no, it deviates from expectation of 50% heads by wide margin (on the order of 22-sigma or whatever)
The reason I said "whatever" is when the term sigma is used, it implies a normal distribution. The binomial distribution can be approximated by the normal distribution, and thus I can borrow some language, but it is inexact in extreme case. In this case, the probability of all heads is 1 out of 2^500 = 3.2 x 10^150 When I put 26 sigma in Wolfram Alpha to get expected frequency of 1 out of some huge number, I got 1/(1-erf(26/sqrt(2))) = 2 x 10^148 so 22 sigma actually understates the severity of the deviation if we are borrowing terminology of the normal distribution. Something like 26 sigma would be more accurate. As I said in the original discussion, that numbers involved are so extreme for the normal approximation for a binomial distribution, "22-sigma" becomes a figure of speech. So I actually understated my case.scordova
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
12:20 AM
12
12
20
AM
PDT
I already gave my answer, and compared it to yours - but here again, my answer has nothing whatsoever to do with why you would find 500 heads suspect. That is the question at hand, why did you say that *you* would find 500 heads suspect? Apparently, it's all about a psychological thing you carry around. I think the weakness of that answer is rather ironic for someone who operates around here with such self-certainty, but it is what it is, and I am prepared to leave it at that.Upright BiPed
December 22, 2013
December
12
Dec
22
22
2013
12:13 AM
12
12
13
AM
PDT
OK, then we are all waiting. Your explanation is ...Graham2
December 21, 2013
December
12
Dec
21
21
2013
11:51 PM
11
11
51
PM
PDT
typo phychological -> psychologicalUpright BiPed
December 21, 2013
December
12
Dec
21
21
2013
11:45 PM
11
11
45
PM
PDT
You've lost your place Graham. I accepted 'no answer' from you in #96, and left it alone. You then came back to say that I needed to "come clean". As crazy as it sounds, I actually have nothing whatsoever to do with why you would see 500 heads as suspect. I can tell you that I would see 500 heads as suspect, not because (as you suggest) it's a phychological thing we carry around, but because it deviates wildly from the a random distributiuon of fair coin tosses. If I commissioned a research project of 500 parents, and sit down to find that everyone in my sample has a female child, then I can assure you I will have the director in my office to be "suspect" with. I would not think "Gee, all children are either girls or boys, so it must be a phychological thing I carry around". And no matter how many times the RD tells me that "having a girl is as likely as having a boy" I would not be swayed by that reasoning. I was just wondering why you are.Upright BiPed
December 21, 2013
December
12
Dec
21
21
2013
11:43 PM
11
11
43
PM
PDT
UBP: For the umpteenth time, I have explained it at #79 as best as I can. If you have any questions about that, then ask. In the meantime please dont keep asking the same question.Graham2
December 21, 2013
December
12
Dec
21
21
2013
11:00 PM
11
11
00
PM
PDT
Graham, there is nothing for me to "come clean" about. You said you'd be suspect of seeing 500 heads in a row. I am asking to think about it and tell me: Why?Upright BiPed
December 21, 2013
December
12
Dec
21
21
2013
10:51 PM
10
10
51
PM
PDT
1 2 3 4 6

Leave a Reply