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Two pretty good arguments for atheism (courtesy of Dave Mullenix)

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Move over, Professor Richard Dawkins. Atheism has a new champion.

Dave Mullenix has recently come up with not one but two philosophical arguments for atheism. Mullenix’s arguments, unlike Dawkins’, aren’t based on inductive inference, but on the unassailable facts that (i) a certain minimal amount of information (usually several bits) is required to represent a proper name; and (ii) a very large amount of information is required to represent all of the rules we follow, when speaking a language. Any Being that knows your name must be able to keep your name in its mind. That means its mind must be able to store more than one bit, so it can’t be the simple God of classical theism. Moreover, any Being that knows all the rules of a language (as God does, being omniscient) must be extremely complex – much more so than the first cell, say. And if it’s very complex, then its own existence is inherently even more unlikely than that of the living creatures whose existence it is supposed to explain.

I believe in addressing arguments for atheism head-on, especially good ones, so here goes.

Commenting in response to a question which I had previously posed to Dr. Elizabeth Liddle, “Why does a mind require something brain-like?”, Dave Mullenix argued as follows:

I would ignore brains and say instead that any mind needs billions of bits of carefully organized information to exist because a mind is, essentially, huge amounts of information interacting with each other. That’s what thoughts are – information acting on other information.

Think of it this way: Does God know your name? Just “vjtorley” is about 56 bits, although it could probably be compressed to half that. But just to give every one of the six billion plus people alive today a unique identifying code would take over 32 bits per person or several hundred billion bits of info total.

Or think of language in general: If He can understand English, He will need millions of bits of information just to cover the words, let alone how to put them together and do all the other processing that’s associated with understanding a language and that information needs to be “on line”.

This is the single biggest weakness in ID – ID in practice treats the existence of God as a given when in fact any thinking being at all, even a human-quality thinking being, requires so many gigabits of precisely ordered information that the unlikelyhood of that being “just existing” totally overshadows the relatively small information requirements (probably only a few hundred bits) of first life. And once you have first life, evolution can account for all the rest. Just ask Rabbi M. Averick.

I’ve taken the liberty of trying to make Dave Mullenix’s arguments against theism as philosophically rigorous as possible, and this is what I’ve come up with.

Argument A. An argument against the existence of the God of Classical Theism (an absolutely simple and omniscient Being)

1. Any entity that knows someone’s name has a representation of that name within his/her mind.
2. Proper names (e.g. Sam or Meg) have a minimal representation in excess of one bit.
3. If God exists, God knows everyone’s name. (By definition, God is omniscient, according to classical theism.)
4. Therefore if God exists, God’s mind contains representations whose length exceeds one bit.
5. A representation in excess of one bit is composed of multiple (two or more) parts.
6. Therefore if God exists, God’s mind has multiple parts.
7. But if God exists, God’s mind does not have multiple parts. (By definition, God is simple, according to classical theism.)
8. Therefore God does not exist. (If P->Q and P->not Q, then it follows that not P.)

This argument will not trouble all religious believers. Some of them might be tempted to say: “We can jettison classical theism but still retain our belief in God. Maybe God is omniscient, but complex.” But Dave Mullenix’s second argument discredits even this fallback position.

Argument B. An argument against the existence of an omniscient God who created life

1. If God exists, God knows each and every human language. (True by definition of omniscience.)
2. Any entity that knows a language has a representation of all the rules of that language within his/her mind.
3. Rules have a minimal representation in excess of one bit. (A rule contains several words; hence you can’t represent a rule using only a single bit.)
4. Since the rules of a human language include not only phonologic rules, morphologic rules and syntactic rules, but also semantic rules and pragmatic rules, the total number of rules in any given language is vast.
5. Therefore any entity that knows a language is capable of holding a vast number of bits of information (let’s call it N) in his/her mind.
6. Therefore if God exists, God’s mind contains an extremely large number of bits of information. In fact, this number is much larger than N, as N is the number of bits required to specify the rules of just one language, and there are roughly 10,000 languages in existence, to the nearest order of magnitude.
7. However, the number of bits in the minimal representation of the first living cell is smaller than N. (A living cell is complex, but it cannot be as complex as the total set of rules in a human language – otherwise we would be unable to describe the workings of the cell in human language.)
8. Indeed, it is probably the case that the total number of bits required to explain the existence of all life-forms found on Earth today is smaller than N. (Many ID advocates, including Professor Behe, are prepared to assume that front-loading is true. If it is, then the number of bits in the minimal representation of the first living cell is sufficient to explain the diversity of all life-forms found on Earth today.)
9. The more bits an entity requires to specify it, the more complex it is, and hence the more antecedently unlikely its existence is.
10. Therefore God’s existence is antecedently even more unlikely than the existence of life on Earth – the difficulties of abiogenesis notwithstanding.
11. An explanation which is antecedently even more unliklely than what it tries to explain is a bad explanation.
12. Hence invoking God (an omniscient Being) to explain life is a bad explanation.

A brief comment about the wisdom of choosing names

Before I go on, let me just say that the choice of names was a very clever one on Dave Mullenix’s part. Traditionally, Scholastic philosophers have maintained that God’s mind can store a vast number of concepts, in virtual form. How does God know what a dog is, what an E. coli bacterium is, and what an atom of gold is? The Scholastic reply has been that each of these entities must possess a kind of unity, or it wouldn’t be an individual. Therefore God, who knows all things in the most perfect manner possible, must have a unified concept of each of these kinds of entities. What’s more, God doesn’t even need to have separate and distinct concepts of each of these creatures. He only needs to have a concept of Himself as the possible cause of all these creatures, since He is able to create them all. Hence, simply by knowing Himself as a perfectly simple Being, God’s mind implicitly or virtually contains the concepts of all the various kinds of creatures which He is able to create.

Now, even if you buy that solution to the question of how God can have concepts of natural kinds, it certainly won’t work for names. Names don’t belong to any natural kind; they’re a human convention. And even if you were to maintain that God implicitly knows all names by knowing all possible combinations of letters or sounds, that wouldn’t explain how God knows your name – or how God knew Samuel’s name when He called him three times: “Samuel, Samuel.”

Argument A

OK. Let’s go back to argument A. What’s wrong with it? The problem, I believe, lies in premise 1: “Any entity that knows someone’s name has a representation of that name within his/her mind.”

At first blush premise 1 seems obvious: surely all knowledge has to be in the mind of the knower. However, I’d like to challenge this assumption. Why should this be so? A clue to why this seems so obvious is contained in Dave Mullenix’s words, “that information needs to be ‘on line.'” If we picture God as having a conversation with us in real time, then of course He will need to be able to access relevant information about us – including our names – from one moment to the next. In other words, He will need to keep it in His mind. And since a name, being inherently composite, cannot be compressed to a single bit, there can be no room for it in the simple mind of God.

But God is not in real time. God is beyond space and time. This is true regardless of whether one conceives of God as atemporal (totally outside time) as classical theists do, or as being omnitemporal (present at all points in time) subsequent to the creation of the universe, as Professor William Lane Craig does. On either analysis, God is not confined to a single location in time. In that case, God does not have to store information about our names in His mind for future retrieval; it’s always immediately there for Him.

“All right,” you may answer, “but if God is talking to me, and He calls me by my name, then the information about my name must still be in His mind, mustn’t it?” Not so. I would maintain that all God needs is to have access to your name; it doesn’t need to be “in” His mind. I would suggest that God knows facts about the world (including individuals’ names) simply by having access to the states of affairs which make them true (their truthmakers, in philosophical jargon). These facts don’t need to be “in God’s mind”; He just needs to be able to access them. The fact that grounds my having the name I do is that my parents gave it to me, shortly after I was born. God, who holds all things in being, was certainly present at this event: if He had not been present, my parents and I would not have been there, for “in Him we live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28). If God has immediate epistemic access to the occasion when I acquired my name, then He automatically knows my name. It doesn’t need to be in His mind.

God, who holds all things, past, present and future, in existence, has immediate epistemic access to all events in the past, present and future. That’s how He is able to know my name.

Argument B

Now let’s have a look at argument B. Here, the critical premise is premise 2: “Any entity that knows a language has a representation of all the rules of that language within his/her mind.” Now, this is plausibly true for a computer that can speak a language. However, it is not true for human speakers, and it is certainly not true for God.

Consider the English language. It certainly contains a vast number of rules. However, most speakers of English don’t know these rules. Many people don’t know what a preposition is, for instance. And even if a well-educated child were aware of all the phonologic rules, morphologic rules and syntactic rules of a language, he/she could not possibly articulate all of the semantic rules and pragmatic rules. Yet virtually all children manage to learn their native tongue and speak it with ease.

It may be objected that we have an implicit knowledge of the rules of a language, even if most of us seldon need to make this knowledge explicit. Moreover, it could be argued, nothing is hidden or “implicit” to God. If He knows things in the most perfect manner possible, then He must have an explicit knowledge of each and every rule of a language.

But this objection assumes that the most perfect way to know a language is to know the rules, and then to apply those rules when making sentences. That’s roughly how I speak Japanese, for instance – but then, Japanese is not my native language. To know a language properly is to be in possession of a certain set of habits, which are properly acquired from being around the native speakers of that language for a certain length of time (usually a few years). Sentences produced as a result of this natural exposure have an authenticity that can never come from reading a grammar book.

“All right,” I hear you say, “but what about God? How does God pick up the habits of a language?” The answer, once again, is that God has epistemic access to all events – past, present and future. He was present at those points in history when each human language was in the process of being created; and He is present wherever mothers pass their native language on to their children. By having access to all these events, God can legitimately be said to possess all of the habits that an authentic native speaker of any human language possesses. Indeed, God has had more linguistic exposure than any one of us could possibly hope to experience. God has seen it all. That’s why God has no difficulty in producing perfect sentences in English, Hebrew or any other human language.

Notice that these habits do not have to be “in” the mind of God. They are “out there” in the course of history, as human languages are being created, and as they evolve over time. God, who has immediate epistemic access to all events in the past, present and future, has a perfect knowledge of these habits, without them being “in” His mind.

I will conclude by saying that in order to mount a successful argument against God, an atheist would have to show that the notion of a Being who has immediate epistemic access to all events in the past, present and future is an incoherent one. This has not been done to date, and there are even atheist philosophers who contend that the notion of such a Being is defensible. David Misialowski, a self-described “agnostic atheist,” is a case in point. His articles on God’s foreknowledge (see here, here and here) are highly entertaining and well worth reading, whatever your theological perspective.

I would like to congratulate Dave Mullenix for putting forward two highly ingenious arguments against the existence of God. They are much better and more interesting than the arguments recently put forward by the New Atheists.

Comments
Mung, I think it's vital here to point out what Wiki referenced from Alvin Plantinga in the article you cited re Dawkin's Ultimate 747 Gambit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Boeing_747_gambit "Plantinga concludes that the argument, to be valid, would require materialism to be true and, since materialism is a vision not compatible with traditional theology, the argument turns out to be a fallacy of begging the question - in order to accept the argument as valid and the conclusion of the non-existence of God, you must require His non-existence since the beginning, in the premise."CannuckianYankee
July 3, 2011
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CannuckianYankee: https://uncommondescent.com/science/why-there-is-no-scientific-explanation-for-evil/junkdnaforlife
July 3, 2011
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Any entity that knows a language has a representation of all the rules of that language within his/her mind.
I'd deny that premise. But what does it mean to know a language? Can I know English without a representation of all the rules of English within my mind? Any omniscient entity that knows a language has a representation of all the rules of that language within his/her mind.Mung
July 3, 2011
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2. Proper names (e.g. Sam or Meg) have a minimal representation in excess of one bit. So no proper name can consist of a single symbol? What is a bit? What is the proper name of a bit? Is a bit a representation? How many bits does it take to represent one bit? 4. Therefore if God exists, God’s mind contains representations whose length exceeds one bit. How does one measure the length of a representation? Is God a proper name? Does God know his own name(s)? 5. A representation in excess of one bit is composed of multiple (two or more) parts. What is a representation? Do representations have parts? Are representations composed of bits?
"A proper name [is] a word that answers the purpose of showing what thing it is that we are talking about" writes John Stuart Mill in A System of Logic (1. ii. 5.), "but not of telling anything about it". The problem of defining proper names, and of explaining their meaning, is one of the most recalcitrant in modern analytical philosophy. A proper name tells us which thing is in question, without giving us any other information about it. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_name_%28philosophy%29
A proper name tells us which thing is in question. Is God not sure which name applies to who? Is "Meg" or "Sam" a proper name? There are many Megs and many Sams. I say that neither Meg nor Sam is a proper name.Mung
July 3, 2011
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Actually dmullinex also formed a moral argument (of sorts) against the existence of God in the thread concerning why science cannot determine what is evil. (If anybody can find a link to that thread I'd appreciate it just for reference). In that thread dmullinex made a rather blanket statement that since most Christians he encountered seemed to operate under what they considered an absolute and objective set of moral codes, this implies that Christians in general accept that there exists a set of moral codes - i.e., a complex system whereby one might be able to determine what is right and what is wrong - a complex rule book. I pointed out in the course of several posts that Christianity simply didn't operate that way, because Christian morality is based in the perfect loving character of God as exemplified in human terms as a woman/man giving up his/her life for a friend or neighbor; the antithesis of which would be preferring one's self interest above others. So evil is simply the negation of the perfect love of God, or that which goes against God's perfect love. So in human terms, God's character is a pole of reference for morality, and human evil goes in an opposite direction to a polar opposite of love - self interest. Now the way I see it, what we perceive as necessitating complexity is perfectly represented in something very simple, and it seems to work when one considers morality. There is no reason to suggest that it couldn't also work for primary knowledge in the same way. Of course there are rules that we can follow, which direct us towards perfect love rather than self interest, but ultimately, if we are loving God (The sh'ma Yisrael) and we are loving our neighbors as ourselves (the golden rule), we are being moral; i.e., we are obeying the law of God. Even Christian scripture confirms this. So it's quite reasonable to assume then that the "mind" of God encompasses all knowledge by His omniscience (yes it's a tautology, but hear me out); however it is unreasonable to suggest that such a "mind" as we think of minds must be so complex as to contain all complex bits of knowledge that could exist. Perhaps there is a prime knowledge that is also characteristic of God, which encompasses all possible complex bits of knowledge, just as there is one morality which encompasses all possible circumstances regarding what is good and what is evil. I think we need to think more in terms of basic laws of logic in determining where to go with arguments regarding God's "knowledge" (I put that in quotes because it is not clear that what we understand as knowledge is the same for God). He knows what is true because He is truth. Truth is not a separate entity from Him. Any antithesis of truth, which goes against His perfect character is immediately known to him. If we think more in terms of binary code then, I think we are closer to (but perhaps still inadequate) to understanding God's "knowledge." Since He is truth, He knows what truth is not, just as since He is love, He knows what love is not. All bits of knowledge then can be incorporated into what is ULTIMATELY or PRIMARILY true. So it would seem that it is humans who need bits of knowledge to understand a whole just as humans need laws to understand what is moral. God is not so. Of course dmullinex objected stating that my argument was "mystifying," however, he gave no rebuttal other than that assertion.CannuckianYankee
July 3, 2011
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Can we turn the argument around? Is the critic buying in to any ID position?Mung
July 3, 2011
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google http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Boeing_747_gambitMung
July 3, 2011
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That's a good catch, Deuce.Ilion
July 3, 2011
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Actually, there's a more serious problem with both of these argument than the ones you pointed out, even if we accept the argument that for God to know names requires that He be "complex". I'll highlight the quote that contains it: And if it’s very complex, then its own existence is inherently even more unlikely than that of the living creatures whose existence it is supposed to explain. The problem is, when we say that complex things are "unlikely" or "improbable", what we actually mean by that is that it's unlikely for an object possessing the complex pattern in question to have come into existence by chance. So what these arguments actually show (assuming we accept the argument that God must be complex), is that it's very unlikely for God to come into existence by chance. I trust I don't need to expound on why such a conclusion isn't exactly earth-shattering.Deuce
July 3, 2011
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Hell, if we kindly grant eliminative materialism, then we will find that we have agreed that *we* cannot exist.Ilion
July 3, 2011
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Still, you'd think that Aristotlean-Thomists, of all persons in the world, would be able to immediately grasp the fact that there is no such thing as “the future,” and thus, no such things as “events in the future.” You know, that whole potential-vs-actual thing they have going on.Ilion
July 3, 2011
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... nor effect, else they would be past (or present) events.Ilion
July 3, 2011
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… and, by the way, there are no “events in the future.”
If they are uncaused, they can be in the future. What is the cause of an event in the future? Future events have no cause. See how it works?Mung
July 3, 2011
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Ilion Thank you for your clarifying additions. And I agree. It appears as though Mr. Mullenix has made his argument on unfounded assumptions.Bantay
July 3, 2011
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Bantay: "Since names are part of what is all that can be known, and God is described as knowing all things, and man is not God, then it follows that it is man who is limited by information unit quantification, not God." Further, the knowledge possessed by even a limited a human mind is not known -- nor "stored" -- in the form of bits/parts, but rather holistically. Thus, it is theoretically possible -- and known cases do exist (Mrs O’Leary has even linked to some) -- to excise half or more of a diseased human brain and yet not destroy the memory nor personality of the human person. Brains are not minds, and minds are not “essentially, huge amounts of information interacting with each other.”Ilion
July 3, 2011
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Bantay:I wonder what his basis is for assuming a “mind” even exists, which is implied in 1st argument, premise 1.” Actually, Mr Mullenix asserts -- though Mr Torley fails to capture this assertion in his attempt to cast Mr Mullenix’s argument into the form of a syllogism -- that minds do not even exist: “I would ignore brains and say instead that any mind needs billions of bits of carefully organized information to exist because a mind is, essentially, huge amounts of information interacting with each other. That’s what thoughts are – information acting on other information.” For this reason, I summarized Mr Mullenix’s argument as: “If you will kindly grant me eliminative materialism (suitably translated into “mental talk”), then you will find that you have agreed that God cannot exist.Ilion
July 3, 2011
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I wonder what his basis is for assuming a "mind" even exists, which is implied in 1st argument, premise 1. And it's almost as if he assumes a non-material, extra-dimensional mind exists. Then, he just arbitrarily assumes that God's mind would have to be subject to quantifiable units of information measurement. Does Mr. Mullenix have some insight about God and the spiritual realm that we do not? In fact, I think his argument is most certainly not against the Judeo-Christian God, but of some other god of his own imagining. Here is why. The Judeo-Christian God is described as being omniscient. Omniscience implies that all is known. Information is part of all that can be known, including names. Since names are part of what is all that can be known, and God is described as knowing all things, and man is not God, then it follows that it is man who is limited by information unit quantification, not God. On the alleged complexity of God, Mr. Mullenix should first examine the complexity of his own argument. Check it for unfounded assumptions, contrivances et etc...Then compare it to the description of the Judeo-Christian God...immaterial, independent of all matter, energy, space and time, unchanging, just, loving and truthful. Of the two, Mr. Mullenix's argument is, by far, exceedingly more complex than God Himself.Bantay
July 3, 2011
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... and, by the way, there are no "events in the future."Ilion
July 3, 2011
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As to God being omniscient, i.e. infinite and perfect in knowledge, I would say that a single 'simple' photon coupled with quantum teleportation 'proves' this: notes: How Teleportation Will Work - Excerpt: In 1993, the idea of teleportation moved out of the realm of science fiction and into the world of theoretical possibility. It was then that physicist Charles Bennett and a team of researchers at IBM confirmed that quantum teleportation was possible, but only if the original object being teleported was destroyed. --- As predicted, the original photon no longer existed once the replica was made. http://science.howstuffworks.com/teleportation1.htm Quantum Teleportation - IBM Research Page Excerpt: "it would destroy the original (photon) in the process,," http://www.research.ibm.com/quantuminfo/teleportation/ Researchers Succeed in Quantum Teleportation of Light Waves - April 2011 Excerpt: In this experiment, researchers in Australia and Japan were able to transfer quantum information from one place to another without having to physically move it. It was destroyed in one place and instantly resurrected in another, “alive” again and unchanged. This is a major advance, as previous teleportation experiments were either very slow or caused some information to be lost. http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-04/quantum-teleportation-breakthrough-could-lead-instantanous-computing Explaining Information Transfer in Quantum Teleportation: Armond Duwell †‡ University of Pittsburgh Excerpt: In contrast to a classical bit, the description of a (photon) qubit requires an infinite amount of information. The amount of information is infinite because two real numbers are required in the expansion of the state vector of a two state quantum system (Jozsa 1997, 1) http://www.cas.umt.edu/phil/faculty/duwell/DuwellPSA2K.pdf Single photons to soak up data: Excerpt: the orbital angular momentum of a photon can take on an infinite number of values. Since a photon can also exist in a superposition of these states, it could – in principle – be encoded with an infinite amount of information. http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/7201 But alas, the catch is that ONLY GOD has access to infinite information! :) But proof of principle was achieved; Ultra-Dense Optical Storage - on One Photon Excerpt: Researchers at the University of Rochester have made an optics breakthrough that allows them to encode an entire image's worth of data into a photon, slow the image down for storage, and then retrieve the image intact. http://www.physorg.com/news88439430.html etc.. etc... etc...bornagain77
July 3, 2011
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... aaand ... I still don't see a good argument. What I see is, “If you will kindly grant me eliminative materialism (suitably translated into “mental talk”), then you will find that you have agreed that God cannot exist.” Well, d’oh!Ilion
July 3, 2011
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In the end, all that Dave Mullenix ended up proving is the veracity of the statement. "The fool hath said in his heart there is no God."JDH
July 3, 2011
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I'm sorry, but so far (that is, reading just the "above the fold" portion of the post, I don't see a good argument. I see misunderstanding (or misrepresenting) what "divine simplicity" means.Ilion
July 3, 2011
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Names don’t belong to any natural kind; they’re a human convention.
Perhaps that's why God had Adam name all the animals. Adam even named Eve. But was Adam a name? A name - that by which a thing is called? God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." The use of personal names is not unique to humans. Dolphins also use symbolic names, as has been shown by recent research. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NameMung
July 3, 2011
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Arguing against a God mind that would exist beyond the c-boundary by using laws confined within the c-boundary is arguably worse than Dawkings Boeing 747junkdnaforlife
July 3, 2011
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