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Veritatis Splendor or Veritatis Peccator?

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Recently I posted “Darwin at Columbine,” in which I pointed out that Eric Harris, a great fan of Charles Darwin, believed he had evolved to a higher plane of existence and that his killing of his “inferior” classmates was the work of natural selection.  I hoped to spark a debate about whether Harris’ understanding of Darwinism is an aberration with no relation to the theory, or a logical (if perhaps misguided) extension of the theory.   The debate that ensued discussed this topic at a high level and I wish to congratulate the commenters on both sides for their insights into the issue and the general civility of the discussion.

I wish to respond, however, to one commenter who suggested that by pointing out the connection between Darwin and the (up until then) worst school shooting in history I was making cheap rhetorical points.  He even said in so many words that my post was “sinful.” 

I took the accusation seriously and examined both my actions and my motives.  Had I violated one of the injunctions or proscriptions of the moral code?  If so, which one?

Certainly I did not stray from the truth.  I have first hand knowledge of the matter about which I spoke, and I know for a certainty that what I said was true.

The truth is good and it is good to speak it (Veritatis Splendor).  Yet, my accuser said I sinned when I spoke the truth.  Can the truth also be sinful (Veritatis Peccator)?

No, the truth cannot be sinful.  It is always good.  Nevertheless, one can offend in the WAY in which one speaks the truth.  The truth, which is good in itself, must nevertheless be spoken in love in order to avoid giving unnecessary offense. 

Did I give unnecessary offense in my message?  I do not think so.  I merely pointed out the facts; I do not think any reasonable person could suggest that my post was inflamatory or rude.

Was the truth offensive to some?  Undoubtedly.  But that is not the point.  Scripture tells us that the truth (and the Truth) will be an offense to many.  We are nevertheless enjoined to speak the truth even though it offends.  At the same time we must strive to ensure that it is the truth (i.e., the message) and not us (i.e., the messenger) that is the cause of the offense. 

When I deposed the killers’ parents I struggled with this issue.  The depositions dragged on for day after day after day with my clients sitting  in the same small conference room with the parents of the men who slaughtered their children.   My clients were willing to endure this ordeal because they wanted to get at the bottom of what happened.  They were seeking truth.  At the same time I was not insensitive to the Harrises’ and Klebolds’ anguish as they answered my questions.  I would be less than candid if I did not admit there were times I thought about not following up on a particularly disturbing line of questions.  It was painful for them; it was painful for me; it was painful for my clients.  But I knew that if I gave in to this temptation I would  be shirking my duty, not only to my clients but also to the cause of justice and truth.

Yes, sometimes the truth does hurt, as the cliche goes.  But we must have the courage to face it and follow it wherever it leads.  In the case of my post, the moral implications of Darwin’s theory are there for all to see.  Eric Harris was a brilliant young man (Dylan Klebold was a follower, more or less along for the ride).  Harris paid attention in class and he learned both Darwin and Nietzsche (and wrote about both in his journal). He put two and two together and got “kill everyone whom I deem to be inferior.”  In our public school system Harris was steeped in the moral darkness and nihilism of Darwin and Nietzsche.  Tragically, he was not exposed to any countervailing influences,  He took what he learned and, however misguided his actions were, he acted upon his lessons.

This is the lesson of Columbine at least insofar as our schools are concerned:  It is very dangerous to spout untempered nihilism in class, because someone just might take you seriously and act on your lesson.

Is it wrong or even sinful for me to point this out?  I don’t think so.

Comments
"The point of my post was that HARRIS studied both and HARRIS wrote that his actions were motivated by Darwin and Nietzsche." What has that got to do with it Barry ? :P I thought your point was really well made Barry, and frankly if people get upset by it, perhaps they should examine why they get upset by it. You are not making the connection as you noted but just reporting that the killers in question made the connections. Perhaps what is really at issue is that people are simply annoyed at you for daring to point out the elephant in the room that some wish to make sure nobody notices.Jason Rennie
November 12, 2007
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specs, I take it that we are discussing a point of constitutional law. Accordingly, none of your questions is germane. What the founders, or any of them, thought in their heart of hearts about the moral questions you raise is utterly beside the point. The question is, “What does the text of the constitution mean?” The text of the constitution meant what I said it meant: The federal government may not establish a national church. Nothing in the federal constitution, as understood by those who proposed and ratified it, means that the federal government may not aid religion generally; nor, more importantly, does it prevent the most important organic unit of government in the federal system at the time – i.e., the individual states – from aiding religion as much as they wanted or even establishiing an official religion.BarryA
November 12, 2007
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StephenB, you're right of course that the terms need defining. We have been and remain a "Christian nation" in the sense that Christians have and continue to have a lot of influence in society. When I say that the government is and should be "secular," I mean that it should be vigorously neutral with respect to specific religions and with respect to religion vs. atheism. So that means Christians should get treated exactly the same as Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, agnostics, atheists, etc. with respect to rights and responsibilities. Institutions including schools should not prefer one religion, nor should they favor irreligion. (This should mean, for example, that "faith-based" government programs, which now support Christians groups overwhelmingly, should give money on the same terms to Mormons, Wiccans, Muslims, etc. I imagine that Christian support for faith-based programs is now predicated on the understanding that Christian and Jewish groups are favored.)getawitness
November 12, 2007
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Oops. 3. Do you agree that the Founders believed that The Founders believed that, because it was a natural (God-given right, if you will) right, the federal government could not infringe upon it?specs
November 12, 2007
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The First Amendment did absolutely nothing to prevent states from promoting religion, even particular sects, and it is a historical fact that several of the states had established churches. Hi, Barry. It seems we can't stop talking. I think I need to be disagreeable again here. But, first, I think we need to make sure we have a common understanding on a couple points, so please forgive me for employing the Socratic method. As a lawyer, I am sure you have had your fill of it, no? 1. Do you agree that the Founders viewed the freedom of conscience as a natural right endowed by God? 2. Do you agree that this freedom of conscience includes the right to choose any system of religious belief or even no system of religious belief?specs
November 12, 2007
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BarryA, All I'm saying is that that frame around two propositions, introduced at this late date, seems not to have been the point of the original posts. I think that's clear to anybody who reads through the original discussions. Framing it this way now need not be disingenuous or revisionist: it could simply be that you didn't express the original point very well. My broader objections have not been aesthetic but but ethical. The responses were "ugly" in the way that my fifth-grade teacher meant when I called her a bad name and she said "that's an ugly thing to say." Her objections were not aesthetic :-) Nor was she scandalized or feeling badly for herself. She was, rather, rightly concerned about how that kind of talk might deform me over time.getawitness
November 12, 2007
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getawitness, the list I offered was comprehensive, which included a summary of your comments and those of two other bloggers. The fact that you personally don't qualify on every count does not change the overall texture of what is going on. You are not the only critic. When I use the accusatory "you" I was using in the plural sense. One additional problem we have here is that you don't define your terms when you use them. "Secular government," and "Christian nation" are meaningless phrases. "Christian nation," for example, could mean Theocracy or it can mean significant christian influence. The only reason I included those phrases was because you and others use them. In fact, most of the freedom oriented ideas of the enlightenment were borrowed from the Church, an assertion I will be happy to back up. So all this talk about secular nation is not only meaningless, it is also misleading.StephenB
November 12, 2007
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Getawitness, "But I don’t think for a moment you were poosing the question in those terms: “the venue you chose to advance it in,” as specs notes above, already establishes what can be considered a reasonable answer to this question. And in this forum, (1) is ruled out as unreasonable from the get-go." How uncharitable of you to assume I was being disingenuous. Your and specs' statement that the forum in which the question is posed dictates the range of reasonable answers must depend upon a principle of polemics with which I am unfamiliar. I for one do not see this forum as a place where I can merely preach to the choir. I welcome respectful,decorous debate and dissent. Preaching to the choir is boring.BarryA
November 12, 2007
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Did the Constitution established a secular state? Of course not. The problem with all of the comments on this subject, both pro and con, is that they view a late 18th century document through early 21st century eyes. What do I mean by that? I mean that it is very difficult for us today to understand just how insignificant the question we are debating was at the time of the founding. The founders established a federal government of limited and enumerated powers. They really did hope that most of the heavy lifting of government in the nation would be done at the state and local level. The federal government’s role as “defend the shores and deliver the mail” might be oversimplifying it a some, but not much. Obviously, intervening events, primarily the Civil War and the New Deal radically changed our view of the federal government’s role. The other day Nancy Pelosi held a press conference in which she said it is the federal government’s duty (not right, not option, but duty) to make sure everyone has health insurance. Even the most radical centralists in 1789 would have been astonished at such a statement. What does all of that have to do with whether the constitution established a secular state? Everything. While it is certainly true that the constitution established a federal government that had no power to establish a national religion, by no means did it establish a “secular state.” First, even at the federal level the founders did not believe that the prohibition on establishing a national religion operated to prevent the promotion of religion generally. The same Congress that referred the First Amendment passed the Northwest Ordinance, which states: “Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.” Much more importantly, however, as I mentioned, the Constitution established a polity in which most of the important questions would be decided at the state and local level. The First Amendment did absolutely nothing to prevent states from promoting religion, even particular sects, and it is a historical fact that several of the states had established churches. Whether it was a good idea for the states to have established churches is another question. The point is that the constitution did not prevent them from favoring religion as much as they desired. Therefore, it is simply silly to suggest that the constitution established a “secular state” when several of the states in question had established religions. The constitution prevented the federal government from establishing a national religion. It plainly did not establish a secular nation.BarryA
November 12, 2007
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BarryA, true dat. I was impetuous, for which I apologize. But I don't think for a moment you were poosing the question in those terms: "the venue you chose to advance it in," as specs notes above, already establishes what can be considered a reasonable answer to this question. And in this forum, (1) is ruled out as unreasonable from the get-go.getawitness
November 12, 2007
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getawitness, an assertion is not an argument.BarryA
November 12, 2007
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Barry, the answer to your question is (1). Thanks for asking.getawitness
November 12, 2007
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Carl Sachs writes: “Is this supposed to mean that his teachers exposed him to Darwin or to Nietzsche, or that he read them on his own within the social context of public high school?” The former. While reading Harris’ journals I was stunned by his references to one teacher in particular who apparently delighted (like, unfortunately, so many teachers) in shocking his students with transgressive ideas. This teacher was playing with philosophical matches and he started a fire. How much of the blood at Columbine is on his hands? This is not for me to judge, but his story should be a caution to all teachers who would uncork the genie of nihilism. “I don’t know if this is significant, but I read Darwin and Nietzsche while in a public high school, and I didn’t kill anyone.” Is your point that not everyone who reads Darwin and Nietzsche goes off and kills their classmates. I’ll grant you that if you’ll grant me that not every kid who plays with matches starts a fire. “Oh, and on a slightly different point: Nietzsche once wrote that anyone who confused the Ubermensch with Darwinian ideas was a ‘scholarly oxen.’” Which proves that Nietzsche either did not understand his own philosophy (unlikely) or that he wrote some really stupid things. “The self-understanding of the killers is interesting if we have good reason to believe that they were reasonable, sane people with reliable self-insight and a sober, mature realization as to who they are and how they do (and don’t) fit into the larger society.” Exactly. The point of my post was to discuss the which of the following statements is true: 1. The killers’ understanding of the philosophical implications of Darwin was an aberration that can be safely dismissed as the workings of deranged or misguided minds. 2. The killers’ understanding of the philosophical implications of Darwin was horrific but not illogical.BarryA
November 12, 2007
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StephenB, I have put forward some, but by no means all, of the positions you claim. Who's claiming "guilt by association"? As for your ludicrous comment that Darwin was "necessary but not sufficient," I was observing a pattern. That pattern is simple: Comments questioning the link between Darwin and berzerk behavior are immediately jumped on by the front-pagers. Comments supporting such a link, no matter how wild or unsupported, are either praised or accepted without comment. As to the your summary of positions: The Founding Fathers established a “secular” government. They certainly did, and tribune7 said nobody here disagreed with that. Oh well: I guess he's wrong. There is no objective morality. I've never said that. I have said that actual moral decisions are always made in relative contexts. Christians are not persecuted in our culture. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they aren't. Mainly I'd say they aren't very much. Schools should be neutral about morality. Depends. Cassie Bernall was not singled out because she was a Christian. The historical record is, at best, ambiguous on this. The constitution has nothing to do with God. I've never said that. I've said it doesn't mention God. In fact it has a lot to do with God: that's why it has the establishment clause and prohibits a religious test for office. Darwinism doesn’t devalue life. This is such a huge statement I don't know what it means. Christianity does devalue life in some cases. I've never said that. People have a right “not to be offended.” I've never said that either. Hector Avalas is a credible source. Nope, not me.getawitness
November 12, 2007
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StephenB wrote: "As far as I am concerned, all this talk about Barry A’s “sin” is a bunch of politically correct nonsense. And political correctness it is." Yup, you said it. All I've seen is the same old darwinist apologetics I've seen for years.shaner74
November 12, 2007
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The issue is the shooters’ self understanding. Both of them say they were influenced by Darwinism. Whether I also believe this may be an interesting topic for another day, but it is not the topic of the post. Why is this so difficult to understand? Because it doesn't fit the venue you chose to advance it in. Examining the casus belli that a sick mind latches onto is certainly fair game for analysis. Doing so on blogs that exist to advance a new paradigm in modern biology inexorably leads the reader to the very implications that you are trying so hard to disavow. Your (and Denyse's) posts are not labelled as "off-topic", so what else are we to believe other than this is another front of the cause that UD seeks to advance, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding?specs
November 12, 2007
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Also, why are you holding Barry A accountable for my statement that Darwin was "necessary but not sufficient" for Columbine. Are you going to add an indictment of "guilt by association" to all of your other reckless chanrges.StephenB
November 12, 2007
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Furthermore: The self-understanding of the killers is interesting if we have good reason to believe that they were reasonable, sane people with reliable self-insight and a sober, mature realization as to who they are and how they do (and don't) fit into the larger society. This is hardly true of any teenagers! I would invite any of the posters on this board to ask themselves, how well did they know themselves when they were adolescents, compared to how well they know themselves now?Carl Sachs
November 12, 2007
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As far as I am concerned, all this talk about Barry A’s “sin” is a bunch of politically correct nonsense. And political correctness it is. Notice how his critics also just happen to believe the following: The Founding Fathers established a “secular” government. There is no objective morality. Christians are not persecuted in our culture. Schools should be neutral about morality. Cassie Bernall was not singled out because she was a Christian. The constitution has nothing to do with God. Darwinism doesn’t devalue life. Christianity does devalue life in some cases. People have a right “not to be offended.” Hector Avalas is a credible source. Barry A should shut up, because he made an “insensitive comment.” Let’s shift the focus away from his argument and speculate about his motives. Let’s move beyond speculation and accuse him of the sin of exploitation. Please stop the motive mongering and return to good faith dialogue.StephenB
November 12, 2007
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"In our public school system Harris was steeped in the moral darkness and nihilism of Darwin and Nietzsche. Tragically, he was not exposed to any countervailing influences, He took what he learned and, however misguided his actions were, he acted upon his lessons." Is this supposed to mean that his teachers exposed him to Darwin or to Nietzsche, or that he read them on his own within the social context of public high school? When I teach Nietzsche in my introduction to philosophy classes, I do it right after Emerson, and tell my students that Nietzsche is basically a very angry Emerson. I don't know if this is significant, but I read Darwin and Nietzsche while in a public high school, and I didn't kill anyone. I did have a lot of inexplicable rage, but it was self-directed, not other-directed, and in any event the proximate cause is the social context of public high school itself. Darwin and Nietzsche just gave him the excuse, not the reason. Oh, and on a slightly different point: Nietzsche once wrote that anyone who confused the Ubermensch with Darwinian ideas was a "scholarly oxen."Carl Sachs
November 12, 2007
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Bob, you misunderstand. I keep trying to make it clear that my personal view about whether Columbine or the Finnish shootings were caused by belief in Darwinism is beside the point of my post. The issue is the shooters' self understanding. Both of them say they were influenced by Darwinism. Whether I also believe this may be an interesting topic for another day, but it is not the topic of the post. Why is this so difficult to understand?BarryA
November 12, 2007
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getawitness says he objectd to the prior debate because the responses were "cold" and "ugly." His objection was not moral but aesthetic. Once again, you and I have a different view of the purpose of speech. I say that my subjective "feeling" about a statement has nothing to do with whether it is true or false. In the words of my torts professor, "Mr. Arrington, neither your classmates nor I have any interest in the condition of your viscera. Give us reasons, not feelings." This is not to say that comments should not be kept within the realm of decorum. They should. But that is not the issue here. None of the comments in the debate were insulting or rude. Getawitness may disagree with the statement "Darwin was necessary but not sufficient for Columbine." But a proper response is not to accuse the commenter of sin, but to try to correct him through reason. Slinging around accusations of sinfulness is not helpful.BarryA
November 12, 2007
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BarryA - so, if you think that Harris "understand “survival of the fittest” ... as a license to kill those whom [he] consider[ed] “inferior.”", how can you maintain that this didn't influence his actions? BobBob O'H
November 12, 2007
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I’m not saying the responses here should be censored; I’m saying they were, on the whole, ugly. I’m saying that the responses here were cold because over-philosphical: You are a very judgemental person.tribune7
November 12, 2007
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BarryA, As a free-speech purist, I'm amused to be called an advocate of censorship. Far from it. I'm calling, rather, for reflection and sympathy as first responses to tragedy. I'm not saying the responses here should be censored; I'm saying they were, on the whole, ugly. I'm saying that the responses here were cold because over-philosphical: they could not wait to add one more death to Darwin's tally. As for truth and error, I'm not sure what "error" you're talking about: the fact that this kid wrote about Darwin was widely known, and all we seemed to do here was emphasize that fact. And to what end?getawitness
November 12, 2007
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Bob, from their writings is seems clear to me that both Auvinen and Harris believe this.BarryA
November 12, 2007
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BarryA - who were you referring to when you wrote this:
It is, however, clear that at least some of Darwin’s followers understand “survival of the fittest” and the attendant amorality at the bottom of Darwinism as a license to kill those whom they consider “inferior.”
Auvinen? BobBob O'H
November 12, 2007
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getawitness, interesting response. I suppose the difference between our positions is that you seem to believe that certain questions should not be asked and certain topics should not be debated if, in your view, some of the debaters have insufficient "human sympathy," whereas I believe error should be met with truth, not censorship, even if feathers are ruffled in the process.BarryA
November 12, 2007
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BarryA, I agree that the Finnish boy's parents are unlikely to read UD. My concern with our response to the Finnish case was not about the damage it might do to them but with the damage it does to us. Look at those threads again: see how quickly the humanity was lost, how easily people claimed that Darwinism was "necessary but not sufficient" for Columbine (again, I'll mention, apparently not worth a correction from you), how human beings are transformed into abstractions. Human sympathy took a back seat, and that does not reflect well on this community.getawitness
November 12, 2007
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getawitness, if I had any reason to believe that the Finnish boys parents or anyone remotely related to him read this blog, your accusation might have at least some force. I do not; therefore it does not. Let me repeat myself. I have not ever attributed Harris' actions to the influence of Darwin and Nietzsche. The point of my post was that HARRIS studied both and HARRIS wrote that his actions were motivated by Darwin and Nietzsche.BarryA
November 12, 2007
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