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Violence is Inherent in Atheist Politics

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Progressive hero Ta-Nehisi Coates (an atheist) is conflicted about whether to bring on the guillotines.  From a recent interview with Vox:

When he tries to describe the events that would erase America’s wealth gap, that would see the end of white supremacy, his thoughts flicker to the French Revolution, to the executions and the terror. ‘It’s very easy for me to see myself being contemporary with processes that might make for an equal world, more equality, and maybe the complete abolition of race as a construct, and being horrified by the process, maybe even attacking the process. I think these things don’t tend to happen peacefully.’

Materialist ideas have entailments, including (1) God does not exist; (2) good and evil do not exist as objective transcendent ontological categories; (3) God, who does not exist, cannot endow men with inalienable rights; and (4) men are not image bearers of a non-existent God; they are jumped up hairless apes.

If there is no good and evil and no God-endowed rights, by what standard does the progressive define the eponymous “progress” they claim to want to achieve?  Certainly, there is no transcendent standard.  The answer is that progressives want what that want.  Theirs is a political philosophy bound by nothing and defined by their unbounded will to power.

Coates rejects the ideas of the Declaration of Independence.  A non-existent God does not endow men with the right to life and liberty.  Jumped up hairless apes have no inherent rights.  So why not lop their heads off if they get in the way of Ta-Nehisi Coates’ pursuit of the greater good – i.e., Ta-Nehisi Coates’ idiosyncratic take on economic and racial justice.  After all, as every tyrant from Robespierre to Pol Pot knew, you’ve got to crack a few eggs if you’re going to make an omelet.

Comments
Do you think that blessing both sides of the war conflict came from God? If yes, please elaborate... If not, where did it come from and why?J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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KF, Do you think God is happy with your religion?J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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Second request KF@ 167 Do you think that some mistakes are unforgivable or God’s grace is unlimited?J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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Latex condoms, used consistently and correctly, are 98-99% effective in preventing HIV http://www.aidschicago.org/resources/legacy/condoms/ltoyw_fact.pdf You must have been reading the Vatican propaganda...J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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JMAC, really! KFkairosfocus
October 14, 2017
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PS: I was once berated on radio here, live, for pointing to the Kenya example at that time (i gather their approach has since been beaten into the ground by the usual suspects). Several years later, with HIV infection numbers rising, HIV educators took a much more sober view of the "party hat" approach. As always it seems, the pivotal issue is are we morally governed, responsibly and rationally free creatures. the scapegoat the Christians approach fails, yet again.kairosfocus
October 14, 2017
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KF @@172 I do not agree with the views of the Catholic Church on contraception So, you must agree that they are at least partially responsible for for the rising number of abortions?J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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KF Waiting for your answer @169J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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KF @172 Is saving few or even one life, worth the effort?J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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J-Mac, please read what I already wrote. I note to you that condoms are only a marginal protection against HIV, because under realistic use conditions, we will see failure rates of order 10%. using such under those circumstances 10 times implies a likelihood of being protected all 10 times of about 35%, in effect comparable to playing Russian Roulette with two loaded chambers in a six-shooter. A far saner solution was advocated in Kenya, where socio-cultural forces and the principle of responsible freedom were harnessed to promote what I have called ABc, abstain [you will not die], be faithful to your wife or husband [and, yes, they encouraged fairly early marriage down to 17 - 19 . . . ], if all else fails understand that the needless risks you insist on can be ameliorated by using a condom, but a habit of exposure to needless risk undermines the overall protection. their symbol for the campaign, coffins -- rather similar to the anti-smoking campaigns that worked in the end, after oh get a filter tip did not. In the Caribbean, the "party hat," made freely available in rum shops etc. Again, the issue of responsible freedom arises: are or are we not free, morally governed creatures? Now, I do not agree with the views of the Catholic Church on contraception, but I do want to point out that in too many cases how something like the oral contraceptive worked, was by inducing a very early abortion, and the IUD may have been much the same. That in some cases was disguised by redefining conception as implantation. We are looking at some very serious issues and again the pivotal one is this: is the unborn child a human life, a human being? KFkairosfocus
October 14, 2017
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KF @168 "J-Mac, your arguments above are enabling of the mass holocaust of abortion. KF I think you got me confused with the god's at the Vatican who insist on prohibition of contraceptives... This also makes them responsible for the holocaust of HIV taking its toll in Africa because they insist using condoms is immoral... Imagine yourself living their, in a village or town, where there is only children alive because all adults died because HIV was spread because these people listen to the gods in Vatican and refused to use condoms... If this continues, the number of victims due to this prohibition will surpass the number of victims of the holocaust...if it hasn't happened already... Your denial is pitiful...J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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PS: Heine, predicting what would happen to Germany on the trend of apostasy already present and powerful in his day:
Christianity — and that is its greatest merit — has somewhat mitigated that brutal German love of war, but it could not destroy it. Should that subduing talisman, the cross, be shattered [--> the Swastika, visually, is a twisted, broken cross . . do not overlook the obvious], the frenzied madness of the ancient warriors, that insane Berserk rage of which Nordic bards have spoken and sung so often, will once more burst into flame [--> an irrational battle- and blood- lust]. … The old stone gods will then rise from long ruins and rub the dust of a thousand years from their eyes, and Thor will leap to life with his giant hammer and smash the Gothic cathedrals. … … Do not smile at my advice — the advice of a dreamer who warns you against Kantians, Fichteans, and philosophers of nature. Do not smile at the visionary who anticipates the same revolution in the realm of the visible as has taken place in the spiritual. Thought precedes action as lightning precedes thunder. German thunder … comes rolling somewhat slowly, but … its crash … will be unlike anything before in the history of the world. … At that uproar the eagles of the air will drop dead [--> cf. air warfare, symbol of the USA], and lions in farthest Africa [--> the lion is a key symbol of Britain, cf. also the North African campaigns] will draw in their tails and slink away. … A play will be performed in Germany which will make the French Revolution look like an innocent idyll. [Religion and Philosophy in Germany, 1831]
kairosfocus
October 14, 2017
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KF@ 167 Do you think that some mistakes are unforgivable or God's grace is unlimited?J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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J-Mac, your arguments above are enabling of the mass holocaust of abortion. KFkairosfocus
October 14, 2017
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J-Mac, have you read the course page that addresses the underlying issue? Are you aware that Christians can and do make mistakes or can live far below their principles? But that is already to highlight that there is a basis to rebuke wrong and call to reformation -- as BTW happened twice in our civilisation with slavery. By utter contrast, the highest right is might -- an implication of evolutionary materialism and the like -- leads straight to amorality and nihilism. Which BTW is exactly what Nazism represented, and it having seized power, church leaders were forced to deal with nihilism in control of the organs of power in a major power. They had a choice of evils and we need to find it in ourselves to try to understand what that is like when millions of lives are on the line. KFkairosfocus
October 14, 2017
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KF, You are confused again! I'm not pro-abortion...J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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J-M: Nope, you also misunderstand responsibility. I have a son, who I gave life to knowing that he too will stumble as we all do. I have taken time and effort to lead him towards the right. But he is a truly free being and may choose wrongs that could break my heart. He is responsible for doing the right, even when it is foreseeable that he will do wrong sometimes. However, the possibility that he will use heart and mind to live by the truth in love opens up a world of good that a mere programmed robot could never attain to . . . and as it turns out, struggles and stumbles notwithstanding, he is making me very proud of the path of life he is treading -- e.g. a potential future Premier if he wants it. KFkairosfocus
October 14, 2017
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KF "J-Mac, you are citing the talking points that were successfully used to create the atmosphere that has enabled holocaust. Subsequently it leaked out that much of the argument was highly questionable. Questionable??? Why did the Catholic church signed the concordat with the Nazis? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat Why did the church blessed troops on both sides of the conflict? Why should anybody be surprised that German Christians had no problem exterminating Jews, other Christians, on the other side of the conflict, it they believed God was with them by the blessing of their church and the their spiritual leaders?J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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PPS: Or, are we back to the radical amorality and relativism of evolutionary materialism and fellow travellers so that rights have no real meaning. Other than "the highest right is might" -- exactly what Plato exposed 2350+ years ago, and exactly the point of the OP.kairosfocus
October 14, 2017
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dave's @159 "That’s hard to say—I find it very difficult to put myself in that situation. Well, now you know how God could feel... "Assuming I am/was watching Earth from outside of time, I could have foreseen what a fiasco this whole project would turn out to be, so perhaps I wouldn’t have embarked on it. Good point, but remember that God gave everyone free will... If He had known, or chosen to know, everything in advance, then He would have been guilty of all the consequences of His knowing it ahead of "time"... Even after starting over with Noah’s family, a large majority of people end up burning for eternity. From my human perspective, it would seem that the initial act of creation would have led to vast amounts of suffering. If you are referring here to the teaching of hell, then I can assure you that Christianity is leaning toward non-literal hell, without physical suffering...at least that's what Pope JP II initiated...J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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J-Mac, you are citing the talking points that were successfully used to create the atmosphere that has enabled holocaust. Subsequently it leaked out that much of the argument was highly questionable. IIRC, many of the former illegal abortionists simply came out into the open. Further, Ms Norma McCorvey, the example used to push the matter in the US supreme Court, according to her later testimony was a set-up. BTW so was the Scopes trial. There is a vast difference between when something has become even widespread and when it is now sanctioned under colour of law, as the law teaches for good or ill. The progressive corruption of law and various institutions backed by agit prop and deception promoting benumbing of conscience is baking in the dynamics of a march of folly of our civilisation heading over the cliff. KF PS: Put it this way, the unborn child in the womb, is it a human life with therefore fundamental equality of nature that implies unalienable rights, starting with the first, life? If so, the debates about the further crimes of abortionists using methods that harm the women they are exploiting and inducing to be party to killing their own posterity just compounds their wickedness -- and there was a Dr Kimmel was it who exemplifies this same problem even with abortion being promoted under false colour of law. If your answer is no, that is the real problem, you have been led to imagine that posterity in the womb is sub human. Compare the exchange in Luke between Elizabeth with John in the 6th month and Mary with Jesus within the first, and you will easily see where that notion did NOT come from.kairosfocus
October 14, 2017
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KF @154 "When Christians has strong influence on law making and coyurt rooms, teh unborn were protected. You are delusional KF... When religious law making prohibited legal abortions in many Christian countries, illegal abortions, death due non-medially supervised abortions and abroad abortion travel skyrocketed... Also, the unwanted children burden on many governments became unmanageable... In my view, religion has failed at the root of the problem...J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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J-Mac,
Imagine YOU ARE in charge and you watch the earth from outside of time…Generation, after generation goes on, and nothing good grows out of the children…if they survive at all, because their parents have sacrificed some of their children to blood thirsty gods…
That's hard to say---I find it very difficult to put myself in that situation. Assuming I am/was watching Earth from outside of time, I could have foreseen what a fiasco this whole project would turn out to be, so perhaps I wouldn't have embarked on it. Even after starting over with Noah's family, a large majority of people [in present times] end up burning for eternity. From my human perspective, it would seem that the initial act of creation would have led to vast amounts of suffering.daveS
October 14, 2017
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dave's @153, "Is the relevant point here that God could tell “ahead of time” that everyone except Noah’s family deserved to die, based on what sinful acts they had committed or would commit in the future? Including infants, the unborn, and the mentally disabled?" Imagine YOU ARE in charge and you watch the earth from outside of time...Generation, after generation goes on, and nothing good grows out of the children...if they survive at all, because their parents have sacrificed some of their children to blood thirsty gods... What would you do?J-Mac
October 14, 2017
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KF, The typos did not affect the substance of the commentary. Thanks.Dionisio
October 14, 2017
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ouch on typoskairosfocus
October 14, 2017
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J-Mac, when Christians has strong influence on law making and coyurt rooms, teh unborn were protected. Once the secular humanists and rellow travellers prevaZiled, such was removed and instead insitutions were warped to promote, enable and disguise holocaust even now in progress. Your attempt to blame Christians for that corruption of law and insitutions fails. yes, there are many who profess the Christian faith who are personally caught up in the horror, they are ill instructed, lack proper support and are participating in wrong. What you failed to mention is that there are also millions of Christians who stood up 40+ years ago and are still standing up to make a difference, including the whole crisis pregnancy movement and much more. Of course the annual march in defence of unborn life in Washington DC only gets a sneeringly bad press in the major, corrupt media houses, when it gets a mention. That too speaks. We again see the one sided rhetoric game that tries to turn Christians into scapegoats. Aren't you going to do better? KFkairosfocus
October 14, 2017
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J-Mac,
It’s not hard at all to understand or justify the flood as an act of justice if one takes into consideration at least 2 facts: 1. God, as the creator of the universe and the laws governing it, is not restricted by “time”; i.e. past, present and future “times” exist to him “at the same time” and are accessible to Him, if he chooses to (this is what Einstein claimed based on his theory of general relativity).
Is the relevant point here that God could tell "ahead of time" that everyone except Noah's family deserved to die, based on what sinful acts they had committed or would commit in the future? Including infants, the unborn, and the mentally disabled?
2. Flood was an act of justice; i.e. similar to the act of justice when unrepentant criminals are executed.
If everyone who died was evil (on the order of Ted Bundy, for example), then I could understand the justice behind the flood. A world of perhaps millions of Ted Bundys [or at least millions deserving the death penalty] and only 8 righteous people is beyond my ken, I have to admit.daveS
October 14, 2017
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YVL, you will recall that Magna Carta went back and forth several times until it was established. You have -- yet again -- played the half-truths game on a tangent, demonstrating the pattern of problems. FYI, even the most ardent Catholics (and I am Protestant) will acknowledge that many popes have erred or worse, indeed there is such a concept as anti-popes. The point I highlighted is not the silly strawman claim that Christendom's history is sinless and error free and struggle free. If you had bothered to seriously read my course web page that would have been utterly clear. The real point is of course that Magna Carta is foundational, and particularly 39 and 40 per the Blackstone numbering. Even that is significant as Blackstone was crucial to the development of law. So, here we find the Archbishop of Canterbury pioneering principles of liberty in a foundational document for common law, building on the deposit of Alfred. The all too prevalent scapegoating of Christians and the church and the scriptures as enemies of freedom and the civil peace of justice fails yet again. Thus we see a deeper background, where in the days before modern democracy was feasible, the lawful state in defence of the civil peace of justice was being championed in a key state document of Christendom. And the question is, were you being calculatedly deceitful above, or just utterly ignorant of Magna Carta's importance and history then failing to do proper due diligence before posting a handy Wikipedia talking point? Neither horn of that dilemma will do you any good. Going yet deeper, the US founders and framers were very aware that Athenian democracy spectacularly demonstrated its instability and failed, with Alcibiades and co playing key roles. This is part of the context of why they spoke of a republic, one with democratic character with checks and balances to guard liberty down to the minority of one. So, we see by 1215 the lawful state based on a corpus of law, and by 1579, 1581 and the 1640's a moving beyond the error and indeed heresy of an absolute king who claimed to rule by Divine right without effective accountability to God or man or spokesmen for both [how can someone read even Nathan the prophet confronting David over his adultery and disguised murder and imagine this . . . much less a huge prophetic corpus in OT and clear linked teachings in the NT]. Thus, we see how it was in fact hammered out under Christian auspices that rule of law expressed in a corpus pivoting on justice prevails over arbitrary rule of the tyrant or the oligarchy. then as we move to the UD founding, this principle of upholding the civil peace of justice was being transformed into the first state with democratic character that pivots on a Constitution that sets out to guard liberties. In that context the wisdom of the Baptist dissenters insisting on a bill of rights speaks for itself. Though, today such has been in significant part wrenched utterly out of its proper meaning by those with dubious agendas. Thus the urgent need for reform and the impact of the plumbline test of the global abortion holocaust of 800+ millions and mounting up at a million per week. Those who fail to get this straight inadvertently expose how their thinking has been en-darkened even while they imagine themselves enlightened. And that has a very direct Scriptural reference from the prince of the OT prophets:
Isa 5: 18 Woe to those who draw iniquity with aa cords of falsehood, who draw sin as with cart ropes, [Gill, MHWBC, NET Notes, TSK, TTB] 19 who say: ab “Let him be quick, let him speed his work that we may see it; let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw near, and let it come, that we may know it!” [Gill, MHWBC, NET Notes, TSK, TTB] 20 Woe to ac those who call evil good and good evil, ad who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! [Gill, MHWBC, NET Notes, TSK, TTB] 21 Woe to those who are ae wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight! [Gill, MHWBC, NET Notes, TSK, TTB] 22 Woe to those who are af heroes at drinking wine, and valiant men in mixing strong drink, [Gill, MHWBC, NET Notes, TSK, TTB] 23 who ag acquit the guilty for a bribe, and deprive the innocent of his right! [Gill, MHWBC, NET Notes, TSK, TTB] 24 Therefore, ah as the tongue of fire devours the stubble, and as dry grass sinks down in the flame, so ai their root will be aj as rottenness, and their blossom go up like dust; for they have ak rejected the law of the LORD of hosts, and have al despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. [Gill, MHWBC, NET Notes, TSK, TTB] [ESV]
Yes, from 700+BC and beyond, the Judaeo-Christian tradition was clearly upholding justice and challenging oppression. That is the reason why when we see the sort of one-sided litany and scapegoating that are so common today, that tells us a lot about the secularists and their agendas, JVL. Not one bit of it good. Indeed we can take what we see as a warning about their intent. KFkairosfocus
October 14, 2017
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JVL:
Well this article makes it sound that man-made affects are even more affecting global warming. Because of air pollution
Right not CO2.
Aside from the fact that the article you link to is over a decade old it states?
I don't care how old it is it still stands. You cannot account for either subunit via unguided evolution. You don't even know how to test the claim unguided evolution didit. And time will tell if Jonas is right or not. So far not one of the dire predictions of the alarmists has come true.ET
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