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Walter White: Consequentialist

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I am a big fan of television show Breaking Bad.  For those who are unfamiliar with the show, let me give a brief synopsis of the plot.  Walter White is a technically brilliant chemist but an underachiever at life (at least by his own lights).  He had a chance to make big money using his chemical skills, but instead he wound up teaching chemistry to bored high school students while moonlighting at a car wash to make ends meet.  He finds out he has lung cancer and probably only a short time to live.  This is especially devastating to him because he knows he will not leave enough money behind for his wife and children to live comfortably.

Here is where things get really interesting.  Walt’s brother-in-law Hank is a DEA agent.  When Walt goes on a “ride along” with Hank when he busts a meth lab, he learns there is a lot of money to be made in the meth business.  Walt decides he will provide for his family after he is dead by cooking and selling meth and building up a nest egg during the brief time he has left.  And since Walt is a brilliant chemist, he will not cook just any meth.  He will cook the best meth on the planet.  The remaining five seasons of the show explore the consequences of that decision.

The consequences are not good.  The series is about Walt’s downward spiral into evil.  Over the course of the series we watch a startling metamorphosis as Walt transforms himself from a likable but bumbling and timid nerd into a truly monstrous criminal capable of appalling acts of cruelty and violence.

Breaking Bad is at its core a show about ethics, a morality play if you will.  Philosophers speak of consequentialist/utilitarian ethics and deontological ethics.  Briefly, the consequentialist says that an act is “good” if it creates the greatest net happiness.  Jeremey Bentham put it this way:  “it is the greatest happiness of the greatest number that is the measure of right and wrong.”  Because the consequentialist focuses on “overall” happiness, he can justify doing “bad” if he believes the bad act will result in a net overall increase in happiness.  Deontological ethics, on the other hand, focuses on the “inherent” goodness of a particular act without regard to consequences.  Thus, it is never good to do evil, even if one believes that somehow a greater good can be achieved by doing evil.

An example might help to demonstrate the difference between the two approaches to ethics.  Let us say that we can be certain that a young child will grow up to be a serial killer.  The consequentialist would say we should murder the child in his crib, because that will increase overall net happiness.  The deontologicalist says that murdering an innocent child is evil and can never be justified on any ground.  The Latin legal phrase Fiat justitia ruat caelum (“Let justice be done though the heavens fall”) captures this approach to ethics.

Walter White is a consequentialist.  Over the course of the series he justifies every evil act by appeals to a “greater good” that will result from the evil he commits.  Producing illegal meth?  How else is he going to get enough money to leave his family a little nest egg?  Killing a captured drug dealer?  I have to kill him to cover my tracks and provide for my family.  By the end of the series Walt has committed numerous murders and even poisoned a young boy to further his own selfish ends, and every step of the way he says he is doing it “for the family.”

I applaud Breaking Bad’s writers for exposing Walt’s consequentialism for the lie that it is.  They do this in two ways.  First, they turn Walt’s own consequentialism on its head.  One of the reasons evil is so bad is that we cannot in fact cordon off the consequences of evil actions in an airtight compartment.  Things have a way of spinning out of control, and Breaking Bad works as a morality play, because it does not let Walt off the hook.  In the end Walt loses everything.  He loses his wife, his children, his home, his ill-gotten money, his friends, and, finally, his life.

Even more importantly, Breaking Bad exposes the consequentialist for a liar even to himself.  In the last episode Walt, knowing he is about to die, is saying goodbye to his wife Skyler:

Walt:  “I just wanted to say that everything I’ve done . . .

Skyler:  “Stop!  Just stop!  I will scream if I have to listen to you say one more time you did everything for the family!”

Walt:  “No, that is not what I was going to say.  I did it for me.  I did it because I like it.  I was good at it, and it made me feel alive.”

That 30 seconds of dialogue is the crowning achievement of the five seasons of an already fabulous series, and my hat is off to the producers and writers.

In the end Walt finally admits that he had been lying all along.  He didn’t do evil to achieve a greater good.  He did evil to achieve his own selfish ends.  And that, dear readers, is a lesson that every consequentialist who has ever tried to justify his evil acts by sanguine appeals to a “greater good” should learn.  You say you want to do evil to achieve good?  I’m not buying it.  You want to do evil because you want to do evil.  Stop lying to me and, more importantly, stop lying to yourself.

Comments
"If I were the only person in the world who considered the holocaust to be wrong, I would be right and everyone else in the world would be wrong." Three questions: 1. What do you mean by "I would be right?" Do you mean that you would hold to your position even in the face of everyone else disagreeing with you? Do you mean that the omnipotent creator of everything that exists would agree with you? Do you mean that the holocaust would still be a net detriment to human progress? More specificity of the meaning of "I would be right" is needed. 2. Are you trying to convince your readers that the holocaust was wrong? That seems unlikely; hence, what are you really trying to say? What position are you trying to staple to the wrongness of the holocaust, and what is the logical justification for such stapling? 3. Your hypothetical, "if I were the only only person in the world who considered the holocaust to be wrong," is completely lacking in detail. Under what set of circumstances could that development occur? A specific answer to that question might be necessary before it is even possible to evaluate your claim that you would be right and everyone else would be wrong.DarelRex
April 12, 2014
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Thanks for the song CS. Here is one to, hopefully, brighten your day: Overcomer - Mandisa http://myktis.com/songs/overcomer/bornagain77
October 6, 2013
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CS, after being given a link, by me, to a Dr. Craig response that goes over the Canaanite issue in all its nuances blatantly lies and says: ",,,You won’t answer a simple question." Well that certainly was not chopped liver I gave you! The truth is CS, is that it is an answer that you do not want since it does not agree with the answer that you want to be true, but an answer it is none-the-less. You may not agree with the answer, or even take time to read the answer I provided you in the Dr. Craig link, as is evidenced in your 'blah, blah, blah' response to me, but an answer it is none-the-less to the Canaanite issue. And if you truly love me, why do you lie to me?bornagain77
October 6, 2013
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CS, I was listening to it on KOMA and X-Rock 80 from Jaurez Mexico because those were the only signals that reached into the Big Bend of Texas. Good tunes.Upright BiPed
October 6, 2013
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CS, great song. I was only a boy when it played on the airwaves. Just to note, I hear that if you listen to I'm Not In Love while watching this video of Blondie's Heart of Glass with the sound off, they sync up in an eerie sort of way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxpe1oSp_sg BTW, AFAICT it's Saturday night here in this hemisphere. :)Chance Ratcliff
October 5, 2013
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Now, it's friday night. Take a break, listen to this, and remember what you were up to back when this song was playing on the radio 20 times day, and, enjoy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rgepWg4rzwCentralScrutinizer
October 5, 2013
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BA77, Blah blah blah. You won't answer a simple question. That's OK. I still love you anyway.CentralScrutinizer
October 5, 2013
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Dr. Craig addresses the issue, in all its nuances, here: Slaughter of the Canaanites http://www.reasonablefaith.org/slaughter-of-the-canaanitesbornagain77
October 5, 2013
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But alas Tim, I'm afraid CentralScrutinizer's purpose is not to give an accurate account for how he himself derives objective morality, for, unless he claims prophetic type connection with God, the answer will be found that he believes moral perfection resides within himself, and thus defeat his argument, but alas his only real purpose, as far as I can tell, is to attack the Bible.bornagain77
October 5, 2013
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Tim @ 78, Ask Barry. Same place.CentralScrutinizer
October 5, 2013
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@CentralScrutinizer - From where does your belief that murder is evil come from?? Is it obective? Then why? If not then there is no real evil, right? How do you know sex slavery is evil in Somalia where know one is there to stop it?? That is the way of the culture is over there..Who are we to point the finger at them? Why? Why do you have a moral compass?Tim Gardiner
October 5, 2013
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CentralScrutinizer, you are entitled to opinions but you are not entitled to your facts. The facts, the way I read them, are that God is the moral law giver. Not you, and certainly not Dawkins! Period! I also hold that God, in whom morality is grounded and all justice is, and must be, fulfilled, commanded the complete destruction of the Canaanites after fore-bearing their exceedingly evil, child sacrificing, culture for hundreds of years (I believe he even sent them warnings).
The “new atheists” call God’s commands to kill the Canaanites “genocide,” but a closer look at the horror of the Canaanites’ sinfulness, exhibited in rampant idolatry, incest, adultery, child sacrifice, homosexuality, and bestiality, reveals that God’s reason for commanding their death was not genocide but capital punishment. After all, the Old Testament unequivocally commands that those who do any one of these things deserves to die. Also, God made it clear in His conversation with Abraham regarding the Canaanite cities of Sodom and Gomorrah that He knows who would or would not repent, and in the case of those cities, not one person would heed the warning and even Lot’s family had to be forcibly pulled away from the coming destruction. http://www.equip.org/articles/killing-the-canaanites/
Moreover, I hold that a supernatural sign, the sudden destruction of the wall surrounding Jericho (as is evidenced in the archeological record), preceded the complete destruction Canaanites, thus I hold that the Israelites had ample evidence to believe this to be a genuine command from God! And did not have the luxury that you now enjoy of questioning whether God really commanded the complete destruction of Jericho. Which reminds me of another time someone questioned whether God really said something was morally right or not:
Genesis 3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
You, on the other hand, do not believe that Jericho account is even true, much less the Genesis account, yet instead of having the courage of your convictions and arguing from the archeological record to obverturn the argument, you argue from a position that presupposes your moral superiority to God! Excuse me, but "barf"!bornagain77
October 5, 2013
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Pardon the formatting error (When is there ever going to be an edit function here?)CentralScrutinizer
October 5, 2013
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BA77, you see, here's the rub:
Barry makes a statement like this: Nightlight @ 18. You say the holocaust was the result of nothing but a flawed “evaluation” on the part of the Nazis. One who will not stand up and say unequivocally that unspeakable evil is unspeakable evil is himself evil/blockquote> Then he makes a statement like this:
Central: Are you suggesting there is a nuanced answer as to whether the holocaust was evil? If so, you are wrong. Are you suggesting there is no possible nuanced answer about God’s actions in Canaan 3,500 years ago? If so, you are wrong again.
Can you see the inconsistency here? If not, I have nothing else to say.
Hidden in this question is the presupposition that the person asking the question knows more than God as to what is morally right in the situation.
Fine. You believe (despite your (and Barry's) deepest feeling about evil, is that sometimes obvious moral evil is not really morally evil... because "God commands it." Sorry, but barf. You contradict what you know is obviously evil by some lame excuse that a book says otherwise and that "God knows better." You essentially are equating a book with God. Why you do that is non-trival discussion. You (I suspect) back-justify all this because you believe in Jesus and Jesus believed in the Old Testament, and therefore Yahweh commanding the killing of babies is justified despite your (and Barry's) revulusion at the very idea. I submit, you would not kill babies even in "God" told you to do it. If you would, you are a monster. Or to use Barry's conclusion, "you are evil yourself." I view people like you as essentially worshiping a book that is loaded with contradictions. I wonder how you put up with the cognitive dissonance. I really do. Killing babies is evil. God never told anyone to do it. If you believe that killing babies is good under any circumstances, you are evil too. Barry knows I'm right. And so do you.
CentralScrutinizer
October 5, 2013
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Dr. Torley, I think you might really appreciate this new philosophical argument that has been derived from the cutting edge of physics: Digital Physics Argument for God's Existence - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Xsp4FRgas Digital Physics Argument Premise 1: Simulations can only exist is a computer or a mind. Premise 2: The universe is a simulation. Premise 3: A simulation on a computer still must be simulated in a mind. Premise 4: Therefore, the universe is a simulation in a mind (2,3). Premise 5: This mind is what we call God.bornagain77
October 5, 2013
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CentralScrutinizer
Why didn’t Yahweh command the Israelites to adopt the babies instead of kill them?
Hidden in this question is the presupposition that the person asking the question knows more than God as to what is morally right in the situation. Something that I'm not willing to concede to CS, (a non-atheist), or any atheist, such as Dawkins, who usually asks the question!bornagain77
October 5, 2013
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vjtorley, Thank you for your reply. But the question still lingers in the air: Why didn't Yahweh command the Israelites to adopt the babies instead of kill them?CentralScrutinizer
October 5, 2013
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CentralScrutinizer, Thank you for your comments at #44 and #45. Re adoption, I think Glenn Miller has answered this question better than anyone else. See http://christianthinktank.com/rbutcher1.html and scroll down to the question, "So, if the Amalekite aggression virtually required the elimination of the warrior-class, what practical options for survival remained for the women/kids?" Re the absolute wrongfulness of killing innocents, as I argued in my Dawkins article, there are moral absolutes which apply to both humans and God. For instance: 1. It's wrong to intentionally take someone's life purely as a means of promoting the good of another individual - for that would be turning the person killed into a mere means to an end. 2. It's wrong to intentionally take someone's life unless you created them, and you know for certain that it would be better for them that their life should be taken. (Re 2: some might want to add, "[unless you created them] OR you're acting on an order from the Creator.") 3. It's wrong to intentionally take someone's life in a painful manner. Are those absolute enough for you?vjtorley
October 5, 2013
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CS corrected link: On Guard Conference: Gary Habermas - The Resurrection of Jesus - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNdmSQKyzgc Also of interest: How Reliable Is the New Testament? - Dan Wallace (16:30 minute mark of video "The New Testament has an 'embarrassment of riches' compared to other ancient texts") - video http://www.watermark.org/media/how-badly-did-the-early-scribes-corrupt-the-new-testament/2305/bornagain77
October 5, 2013
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CS, since you trying to attack the bible, I asked you,
But for clarity what parts of the Bible, generally speaking do you hold to be true? But I guess the most important thing I could ask, is do you believe in Christ and his atoning sacrifice?
To which you bluntly responded:
Not germane to an academic discussion, and none of your business besides. Kindly keep your proselyting directed elsewhere.
But alas CS, if Jesus rose from the dead then it is directly 'germane to an academic discussion' on the Bible such as we are having. For, as a British agnostic once said
“let’s not discuss the other miracles; let’s discuss the resurrection. Because if the resurrection is true, then the other miracles are easily explained; and if the resurrection is not true, the other miracles do not matter.”
Moreover this is a miracle that is evidence far more powerfully than any other historical fact:
“I have been used for many years to study the history of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them; and I know of no fact in the history of mankind which is proved by better and fuller evidence of every sort, to the understanding of a fair inquirer, than that Christ died and rose again from the dead.” Thomas Arnold — Professor of History at Oxford University; author of a 3-volume history on ancient Rome The (Unmatched Historical Reliability of the) Resurrection of Jesus - Dr. Gary R. Habermas (On Guard Conference 2013) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMqertodsVk History proves Christ’s resurrection - article http://www.c-bstatesman.com/news/2011-03-03/Church_News/RISEN.html
Moreover, the Shroud of Turin, that ancient linen that atheists thought they had also gotten rid of with Carbon dating (as you are now trying to do with Jericho)
Shroud of Turin - Carbon 14 test proves false (with Raymond Rogers, lead chemist from the STURP project) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxDdx6vxthE THE SHROUD AS AN ANCIENT TEXTILE - Evidence of Authenticity http://www.newgeology.us/presentation24.html
The Shroud of Turin testifies powerfully to the resurrection of Christ:
Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - December 2011 Excerpt: After years of work trying to replicate the colouring on the shroud, a similar image has been created by the scientists. However, they only managed the effect by scorching equivalent linen material with high-intensity ultra violet lasers, undermining the arguments of other research, they say, which claims the Turin Shroud is a medieval hoax. Such technology, say researchers from the National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (Enea), was far beyond the capability of medieval forgers, whom most experts have credited with making the famous relic. "The results show that a short and intense burst of UV directional radiation can colour a linen cloth so as to reproduce many of the peculiar characteristics of the body image on the Shroud of Turin," they said. And in case there was any doubt about the preternatural degree of energy needed to make such distinct marks, the Enea report spells it out: "This degree of power cannot be reproduced by any normal UV source built to date." per - The Independent Shroud Of Turin - Photographic Negative - 3D Hologram - The Lamb - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5664213/
Kevin Moran, a scientist working on the mysterious '3D' nature of the Shroud image, states the 'supernatural' explanation this way:
"It is not a continuum or spherical-front radiation that made the image, as visible or UV light. It is not the X-ray radiation that obeys the one over R squared law that we are so accustomed to in medicine. It is more unique. It is suggested that the image was formed when a high-energy particle struck the fiber and released radiation within the fiber at a speed greater that the local speed of light. Since the fiber acts as a light pipe, this energy moved out through the fiber until it encountered an optical discontinuity, then it slowed to the local speed of light and dispersed. The fact that the pixels don’t fluoresce suggests that the conversion to their now brittle dehydrated state occurred instantly and completely so no partial products remain to be activated by the ultraviolet light. This suggests a quantum event where a finite amount of energy transferred abruptly. The fact that there are images front and back suggests the radiating particles were released along the gravity vector. The radiation pressure may also help explain why the blood was "lifted cleanly" from the body as it transformed to a resurrected state."
And Moran's 'supernatural' explanation for image formation on the Shroud bears the scrutiny of others:
The absorbed energy in the Shroud body image formation appears as contributed by discrete values - Giovanni Fazio, Giuseppe Mandaglio - 2008 Excerpt: This result means that the optical density distribution,, can not be attributed at the absorbed energy described in the framework of the classical physics model. It is, in fact, necessary to hypothesize a absorption by discrete values of the energy where the 'quantum' is equal to the one necessary to yellow one fibril. http://cab.unime.it/journals/index.php/AAPP/article/view/C1A0802004/271
Moreover, the explanatory power of Christ's resurrection goes far deeper into science than most people realize:
General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, Entropy, and The Shroud Of Turin - updated video http://vimeo.com/34084462 Centrality of Each Individual Observer In The Universe and Christ’s Credible Reconciliation Of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics https://docs.google.com/document/d/17SDgYPHPcrl1XX39EXhaQzk7M0zmANKdYIetpZ-WB5Y/edit?hl=en_US
Thus Jesus victory over death is very 'germane to an academic discussion' on the Bible!. In fact, nothing else matters! Music and Verse:
Metallica & San Francisco Symphony Orchestra - Nothing Else Matters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziThYl6B2vw 1 Corinthians 15:17 “If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile, you are still in your sins”
bornagain77
October 5, 2013
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BA77, But for clarity what parts of the Bible, generally speaking do you hold to be true? But I guess the most important thing I could ask, is do you believe in Christ and his atoning sacrifice?
Not germane to an academic discussion, and none of your business besides. Kindly keep your proselyting directed elsewhere.CentralScrutinizer
October 4, 2013
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CS, I guess to bring clarity to my position, and remove any needless confusion I may have caused. I, at a very low point in my life, reached out to Jesus for help and, quite unexpectedly, had a profound 'spiritual experience' that left no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Jesus Christ is real. And although I don't see big miracles like that all the time, I still do see God move in many small miraculous ways in my life quite regularly (if I keep my eyes and ears open for the guidance) For me, that is what I consider most important as to being a 'Theist'. i.e. I consider a 'personal relationship' with God to be of primary importance and consider strict, dry, wooden, religious observances of traditions, and religious text to be suspect. Though I know such observances bring much comfort and faith to many people. For me, personally, there is nothing that can compare to recognizing a small miracle in my life where God has done something special in my life.,, The following article should help you see the 'different way' I view the bible than most people: Strange But True - Miracle Testimony https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AYmaSrBPNEmGZGM4ejY3d3pfNTNocmRjZGtkdg&hl=en also of note, I thought this was an interesting 'small miracle' story from John Lennox; One of John Lennox´s Great Personal Stories Told to Harvard Students - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh0M0EG2jKYbornagain77
October 4, 2013
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CS you ask: "Are you saying that a theist must accept all the stories in the Bible as true, literal and/or reliably dated or else not be a theist?" No, you could be a Muslim for all I know and you would still be a Theist. ,,,, But for clarity what parts of the Bible, generally speaking do you hold to be true? But I guess the most important thing I could ask, is do you believe in Christ and his atoning sacrifice?bornagain77
October 4, 2013
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CS, you never did give me your opinion on this video: The Physical Ashen Remains Of Sodom and Gomorrah – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwTVFk1HK3Y What is your honest opinion of that?bornagain77
October 4, 2013
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CS, ignoring your ad hominem, which coincidentally is another popular atheistic debating tactic by the way, as far as I'm concerned the pottery evidence he goes over at the 21:00 minute mark of the video gives solid evidence for the Biblical timeline and brings severe doubt to your position. CS you also ask:
What archeologists are “concerned” with the carbon dating of Bruins and van der Plicht of the cereal grains which could not have been 150 years old when they were burned?
Well I can only quote what Wood wrote on the Carbon dating and the 'heated debate':
C14 dates are consistently 100–150 years earlier than historical dates. There is a heated debate going on among scholars concerning this, especially with regard to the date of the eruption of Thera (Santorini). The literature on the subject is enormous, so I will not attempt to give you references. A recent overview can be found in Manfred Bietak and Felix Höflmayer, Introduction: High and Low Chronology, pp. 13–23 in The Synchronisation of Civilisations in the Eastern Mediterranean in the Second Millennium B.C. III, eds. Manfred Bietak and Ernst Czerny, Vienna: Österreichischen Akademie der Wissenschaften, 2007. Because of the inconsistencies and uncertainties of C14 dating, most archaeologists prefer historical dates over C14 dates. http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2012/11/20/Conquest-Confusion-at-Yale.aspx#Article
I have no reason to doubt that Dr. Wood is a man of integrity and that there actually is a 'heated debate' on the discrepancy between C-14 dates and historical dates.
bornagain77
October 4, 2013
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BA77, Thus my position (which Wood heavily referenced) is much stronger than yours and as far as the archeologists themselves are concerned there is something fishy with the Carbon dating!
What archeologists are "concerned" with the carbon dating of Bruins and van der Plicht of the cereal grains which could not have been 150 years old when they were burned?
You also objected to me questioning what kind of non-atheist you are, yet from as far as I can tell you are arguing the atheist’s position down the line. If you truly are a Theist I can hardly tell it from your argumentation.
Apparently because of your false assumptions about what is means to be a theist.
You also objected to me questioning what kind of non-atheist you are, yet from as far as I can tell you are arguing the atheist’s position down the line. If you truly are a Theist I can hardly tell it from your argumentation. Perhaps that may change when we get on another topic such as fine-tuning or molecular machines, but for now the eyebrow is left in questioning mode! I couldn't care less. But I do find it amusing, and a window into how you process information.
You didn't answer my question: Are you saying that a theist must accept all the stories in the Bible as true, literal and/or reliably dated or else not be a theist? Never mind. I was momentarily amused by your obliviousness to your assumptions behind such a ridiculous assessment of me. By now it's really quite irrelevant. Yawn.CentralScrutinizer
October 4, 2013
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But to iron this out a bit more, here is Dr. Wood's newer video from 2009: Jericho and Archaeology, by Dr. Bryant Wood http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nJNjhnTe4B0 I'll watch it in a bit and see what he says about the Carbon Dating so that we may more fully understand this important topic.bornagain77
October 4, 2013
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CS and the Response from Wood: My dating of the destruction of Jericho to ca. 1400 B.C. is based on pottery, which, in turn, is based on Egyptian chronology Jericho is just one example of the discrepancy between historical and C14 dates for the second millennium B.C. C14 dates are consistently 100–150 years earlier than historical dates.,,, Because of the inconsistencies and uncertainties of C14 dating, most archaeologists prefer historical dates over C14 dates. http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2008/08/Carbon-14-Dating-at-Jericho.aspx#Article Thus my position (which Wood heavily referenced) is much stronger than yours and as far as the archeologists themselves are concerned there is something fishy with the Carbon dating! Moreover, the sequence of events in Jericho matches the Bible! i.e. you are left with a questionable piece of evidence in the Carbon dating and I have the chronology to Egypt pottery right and I have the sequence of events in Jericho right. Pretty good evidence compared to one that is questioned as to veracity! You also objected to me questioning what kind of non-atheist you are, yet from as far as I can tell you are arguing the atheist's position down the line. If you truly are a Theist I can hardly tell it from your argumentation. Perhaps that may change when we get on another topic such as fine-tuning or molecular machines, but for now the eyebrow is left in questioning mode!bornagain77
October 4, 2013
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Box @ 53, What could be the reason for God to involve the Israelites in this annihilation? Why did He invoke their help? Williams said: ‘God did most of the fighting’. My question is: why did He not do all of the fighting?
My question is: if the story is literally true, why didn't Yahweh instruct the Israelites to at least adopt the babies instead of killing them?CentralScrutinizer
October 4, 2013
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BA: Plus I’m left wondering what type of non-atheist you are in that you are always arguing the atheistic position? Does that not strike you as strange? It certainly raises my eyebrow!
Are you saying that a theist must accept all the stories in the Bible as true, literal and/or reliably dated or else not be a theist? At any rate, feel free to raise your eyebrows.CentralScrutinizer
October 4, 2013
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