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When Is Murder “Good”?

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I present the following proposition for consideration:  “Every human being has infinite value and therefore one can never justify killing a human being on the ground that killing that human results in a net overall increase in pleasure even for the human in question.” 

What reasoning could possibly warrant believing this proposition to be true?

Let’s say we have two people debating the matter.  “John” accepts the first principles of the Judeo-Christian belief system.  “Sam” is a metaphysical materialist.

John:  This is easy.  One of the first principles of the Judeo-Christian belief system is that humans are created imago Dei, literally, in the “image of God.”  God is, by definition, the most valuable of all things, and it follows that anything that is created in his likeness shares in that value.  Therefore, each human has infinite value and unique dignity and cannot be traded for any other “good.”  Therefore, John says in answer to the question in the heading, “never.”

Sam:  Hmmm.  Well . . . You see . . . Hmmm.  I got nothin’.

Sam has nothing indeed.  Will Provine is correct.  If God does not exist and has not declared an ethical standard then there simply is no foundation for ethics.  Everyone is cast adrift in a sea of conflicting opinions about the grounding of any ethical norm, including the ethical norm, “Thou shalt not commit murder.”  In fact, one system of materialist ethics (consequentialism, especially the utilitarian version of it) holds that no absolute statement such as this is ever true.  If you ask a consequentialist whether it is OK to murder someone, all he can say is “Does it increase overall happiness to murder that person?”  If yes, go ahead and murder him.  So the materialist who subscribes to consequentialism answers the question in the heading “depending on the circumstances, sometimes.”

Comments
Sonfaro, so why do Christians object to abortion? If the unborn are going to heaven (which by all accounts is better than life down here) should not the abortionists be upheld as saints?Timbo
November 1, 2011
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Bruce, Billy Graham has a recent article out!
Nearing Home: How To Live One's Latter Years And The Reality of Heaven Excerpt: Soon I will celebrate my 93rd birthday, and I know it won't be long before God calls me home to heaven. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/billy-graham/nearing-home-how-to-prepare-for-ones-latter-years_b_1031456.html?ref=fb&utm_campaign=110111&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BlogEntry&utm_term=Daily+Brief&src=sp&comm_ref=false#s277965
bornagain77
November 1, 2011
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Bruce, If you feel that you are able to face the perfection required of God's judgement on your own merit without the propitiation offered freely by Christ, you are simply living in denial as all the Darwinists are with their materialistic philosophy. But then again, are you not the pantheist who denied the existence of evil, all together!!! and moreover don't you believe that your god created himself in the big bang or something to that effect, since you believe, in your pantheism, that all is god, and all is good, or some tripe like that??? No thanks for you request for me to revise!!!, I'm starting to remember that you were the one shown to be without a foundation 7 ways to Sunday, by numerous UD commentators, and still, much like neo-Darwinists who comment on UD, you refused to concede the irrational basis of your beliefs compared to how reality is actually structured!!!; Perhaps you would do very well to humbly let God be God, instead of demanding that the creation of God is god as you do in your pantheistic beliefs!!!
Erasing Hell by Francis Chan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnrJVTSYLr8 G.O.S.P.E.L. Poetry Slam; To The Point http://vimeo.com/20960385
bornagain77
November 1, 2011
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Yeah, well, Darwinists believe that Darwinism is doing quite well also. There are none so blind as those who will not see.Bruce David
November 1, 2011
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I believe Christianity is doing quite well and it is Bruce David who is in serious need of revision of his beliefs.bornagain77
November 1, 2011
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Bornagain77: Re: Your very last quote (Matthew 10:28) and the accompanying YouTube video: The video is very interesting. The refrain is "The Voice of Truth". The singer does not say from whence that voice originates, but it is pretty clear that it is saying to him that you find truth in the Bible. Well, I hear a voice of Truth also, and it tells me that I have absolutely nothing to fear from God, for several reasons: 1. God loves me unconditionally. There is never anything to fear from unconditional love. It's really that simple. 2. God created me out of Himself. We are each of us Him, individualized and localized, made in His image and likeness. What possible purpose could be served by His destroying or harming a part of Himself? 3. God is the self sufficient being. Therefore, He has no needs. So the idea that He needs us to behave in any particular way is self-contradictory. 4. What possible purpose could such a place as Hell serve an unconditionally loving being? The Bible, insofar as it portrays God as judgmental, condemning, and punitive, is incorrect. That vision of God is a reflection of imperfect understanding by those who wrote the books that have been incorporated into it. Insofar as it portrays us as separate from Him, the Bible is incorrect in that regard as well. Insofar as the Bible portrays humans as miserable sinners, unfit to be in His presence instead of the magnificent beings (made in His image and likeness, don't forget) that we are, it is incorrect. For these reasons I believe that Christianity is in serious need of a revision of its beliefs. It is time, past time really, for an infusion of new understandings into Christianity (and the other major religions as well).Bruce David
November 1, 2011
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Well, this certainly explains the present chaos the world finds itself in. This is alsi illustrative of the United States global action of spreading it's own version of "Pax Americana" on other nations who boldly object to it's own version of National Interests. Anyone ever watch the film staring Jack Lemmon and Sissy Spacek called "Missing" ??? Jack Lemmon played this die hard God & Country love it or leveave it father who had been at odds with his conscientious son. One day his idealistic writer Son disappears during the Right Wing military coup in 1973 Chile, his wife(Sissy Spacek) and American businessman father(Jack Lemmon) try to find him. Based on the real-life experiences of Ed Horman, this is the story of an American father of conservative background who comes to a South American country to search for his missing son, a journalist. Ed joins with his daughter-in-law Beth, who like her husband is politically polarized from the father, in prying through the bureaucracy and dangerous political intrigue in search of their son and husband. Little by little, the father comes to realize that his own beloved government is not telling him the truth. In the end, Jack Lemmon playing the father is told by a spokesman at the U.S. Embassy that what America is trying to accomplish around the globe is to the preserving of a lifestyle. So sometimes that requires looking the other way. What more can anyone say! *sigh*Eocene
November 1, 2011
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Incredible, you just condemned your own faith and any credibility of all of Christendom being different from atheists , agnostics or all of pagandom. In 1941, I remember reading a quote from the high Reverend of the Evangelical Church of Mainz Germany who was giving a moving public prayer to the faithful. It was immediately after France surrendered unconditionally to Nazi Germany in that infamous restored railroad passenger car outside of Paris. In prayer the Reverend thanked almighty God for sending Adolf Hitler to save Germany. What do you think Jesus Christ was thinking at that moment ??? Especially when he taught Peter an object lesson of pacifism in the Garden of Gethsemane where he said, "All who live by the sword shall die by the sword." Matthew 26:52 This was nothing more than a whitewashed "Gott Mit Uns" excuse, which by the way was on a number of uniforms and military metals and other Nazi emblems.Eocene
November 1, 2011
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First the terms used for religion are Catholic and protestant. The evangelical term here is not true evangelicals but only protestants in the usual disinterested way. I'm sure Evangelical christians in Germany were a tiny percentageof 1-3%. Naughty , naughty with terms. Its not murder to kill people tryng to murder. One can shoot in the back the opposing General while petting his dog on break. He's taking your peoples lives, with effect, in a unjustified way. its murder to kill the good guy General. War and killing comes down to the equation of whether the killing is justified solely because they otherwise would murder human beings. You have to figure out before the killing starts who is the good guy. The bad guy will be a murderer regardless of any personal malice in his heart. There were no good japanese, Germans, italians etc etc. unless they sincerely believe they were killing only to preserve their lives. Its simple. the stuff of stories.Robert Byers
November 1, 2011
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Well its certainly not like they were human right? I thought you were okay with abortion. Geez. ;) Anyway, as far as I remember, the Christian position was/is that the unborn are heaven bound anyway. If the adults were all evil wicked people who required judgement, who'd stick around to take care of the kids? The goats? -_- They'd have wandered around and died a far more painful death. Of course this assumes that the Bible is inerrant and that it happened as written. I'm far more agnostic on that.Sonfaro
October 31, 2011
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How many unborn babies still in their mother's wombs do you suppose God killed in the Flood? Must have been in the tens of thousands at least. Seems like that makes the Christian God the world's most deadly abortionist. But I'm sure those unborn babies had it coming.GinoB
October 31, 2011
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Timbo, -"So you agree that God killing all humans could be just?" If ALL of humanity had stepped past the (as TVtropes calls it) the "Moral Event Horizon" then yeah, God killing everybody would be just. Thankfully, that hasn't happened. Even when/if the flood came there were still at least eight left considered to be decent. - SonfaroSonfaro
October 31, 2011
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So you agree that God killing all humans could be just?Timbo
October 31, 2011
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If the people are just too far gone to be dealt with in any other way, then it would be just. As I said God was going to kill ALL humans because He said it would be just...Joseph
October 31, 2011
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I think someone has mentioned this before, but it is interesting that you consider genocide could be just. Can you provide an example of a just genocide?Timbo
October 31, 2011
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I don't think it's true to say no-one considered killing Hitler as long as Germany was winning. Consider for example Georg Elser's attempt in 1939. Also, it's a little harsh giving the whole population the blame when he only won 30% of the vote.Dunsinane
October 31, 2011
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Let me try that again ....
And I think you will also notice that they are not so much principles as attitudes of the heart.
And as you can see I am just fine with "attitudes of the heart". But the person who refuses to offer an overdose of morphine to hasten the end of someone who is dying in agony, is, it seems to me, putting aside an “attitude of the heart” because of a rule they were told or read in a book.markf
October 31, 2011
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And I think you will also notice that they are not so much principles as attitudes of the heart. And as you can see I am just fine with attitudes of the heart. But the person who refuses to offer an overdose of morphine to hasten the end of someone who is dying in agony seems to me to is not putting aside an "attitude of the heart" because of a rule they were told or read in a book.markf
October 31, 2011
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That's a very good question. Thinking about it, even organizations who require certain ethical considerations (which would be most legal ones) have dilemmas they must overcome. Usually they have certain policies that are above others when such dilemmas occur. In law: We have laws against murder, but the law protects us if we kill someone out of self-defense. So morality as far as the law is concerned is circumstantial, and being circumstantial, there's a heirarchy, which dictates what is lawful. It's not simply "this person committed this act and this is the punishment." Also there are degrees of sentence in our laws. There's misdemeanors and felonies, and sometimes 2 people who commit the same crime could be charged differently depending on the circumstances of the crime. If I kill someone in one state only, then it's a state or local crime. If I kill people in several different states it becomes a federal crime with stiffer penalties. If I kill a police officer or government official, it's more serious than if I kill someone other. Personal morality: I'm of the belief that I should love people. This means that I honor my parents and I trust the judgment of those in my family (conditionally). But it doesn't mean that I must trust every stranger who comes along out of love. I believe in giving money to charities. I don't give money to every person who walks up to me. I simply couldn't do it and survive (you have to understand where I live to appreciate it - as everywhere I go there's someone who needs money). So I have to make a decision when people ask for money, and sometimes that decision might be the wrong one; but generally I can tell the difference (now) between a person who's desperate and a person who does it for a living. The people who do it for a living won't accept other non-money involved help, while the people who are desperate will take any help they can get. Those are the ones I will help either with money or a ride somewhere, or extra clothing or whatnot. These are the best I could come up with, but I'm sure there are plenty more. But I live by something that is above ethical considerations (which keeps me within whatever ethics or laws are in place), and that is the Shema. "Hear O Israel...." I'm not Jewish, but it applies to Christians as well. I'm not perfect at it and neither is anyone else, but I believe that it is a safeguard against corruption. And the other item that keeps me reminded about what is right is Galatians 5:22-23 where it talks about the 9 fruit of the spirit, which have no law against them. So the highest principle is that which is closest to that which is perfect. BTW, the fruit of the Spirit, which means what grows out of a certain attitude of the heart are: love, joy, peace, forbearance, Kindness, goodness, gentleness faithfulness and self-control. I can hardly see how these combined could be the heart attitude of anyone who justifies religiously based slaughter of the kind you mentioned. Those people either were ignorant of these passages or they forgot who they were, or something worse - wolves in sheeps' clothing, but that goes without saying. And these particular words were written by a former religious persecutor, Paul the Apostle. A man who literally had a change of heart. I think he knew how one can justify atrocities in the name of religion. I also believe he came to understand the principles by which they can be avoided. And I think you will also notice that they are not so much principles as attitudes of the heart.CannuckianYankee
October 31, 2011
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Perhaps there are other ethical principles higher than the supposed ethical principles upon which such “higher causes” are based.
But what do you mean by "higher" and on what criteria do you decide one principle is higher than another?markf
October 31, 2011
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Eocene- The way they saw it they were defending themselves against the people who were ruining their country- and the Germans were desperate at the time...Joseph
October 31, 2011
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Joseph: "Is all killing equal to murder?" "If I kill someone in self-defense is that murder?" ===== Who were those 60+ Millions of German citizens self-defending themselves against before or even at the beginning of WWII ??? If Hitler used Social Darwinism to justify his racial views(I believe he did), then why on Earth did 60+ million Christians(40% Catholic/60% Evangelical) put him in power to begin with ??? I'm not justifying another side here, just asking questions that should have been asked by the folks who could/should have made a real difference way back when!Eocene
October 31, 2011
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Is all killing equal to murder? If I kill someone in self-defense is that murder?Joseph
October 31, 2011
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dmullenix: "Nobody seems to have responded to myname’s point, so let’s revisit it. On July 20, 1944, plotters set off a bomb inside Hitler’s headquarters. The bomb failed to kill Hitler, but had it succeeded it would have been murder. I’d say that it would have also related in a large net increase in pleasure as the whole non-axis world celebrated." ==== Here's how it's been explained to me. I have asked in the past just why the 60,000,000,000+ citizens(taken from a 1926 German Census of those in Germany identifying them selves as Christian- 40%=Catholic -60%=Evangelical) put the man Adolf Hitler in power in the very first place when they knew he never once hid his racist agenda to the public. Now the Christendom participation in the war effort was put to me this way. They'll reference the one of the ten commandments where is says, "Thou shallt not murder" , but then proceed to say it speaks nothing of killing anyone. So in their minds murder and killing are two separate issues. Clearly from what I gather, they would consider the attempted killing of Hitler justified since it wouldn't be considered a murder. Don't ask me to explain the logic here. I can't. But you'll have to ask one of those who reason this way. To be further honest, these same individuals who attempted to assainate Hitler didn't ever once consider killing Hitler when their side was winning(like after France's unconditional surrender), but only after it was apparent that the Allies turned the tables and were winning and they thought they could spare themselves some further grief by suing for peace.Eocene
October 31, 2011
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Again if justice is good and the genocide was just- not that Nick could grasp that simple fact...Joseph
October 31, 2011
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Nobody seems to have responded to myname's point, so let's revisit it. On July 20, 1944, plotters set off a bomb inside Hitler's headquarters. The bomb failed to kill Hitler, but had it succeeded it would have been murder. I'd say that it would have also related in a large net increase in pleasure as the whole non-axis world celebrated. As myname asked, would this murder have been an unethical thing to do? If not we need an explanation why.dmullenix
October 31, 2011
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Further note: Mathematically, it is shown that the transcendent quantum information within us is of a superior quality, of a 'higher dimensionality', than the higher dimensional 4-dimensional space-time we currently reside in:
Light and Quantum Entanglement Reflect Some Characteristics Of God - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4102182 3D to 4D shift - Carl Sagan - video with notes Excerpt from Notes: The state-space of quantum mechanics is an infinite-dimensional function space. Some physical theories are also by nature high-dimensional, such as the 4-dimensional general relativity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VS1mwEV9wA On the Mystery, and Plasticity, Of 4-Dimensional Space-Time https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FFKL3FeyebpNNyal1DQ64y20zlplVrjkaLXrM0P5ES4/edit?hl=en_US
It is also very interesting to note that we have two very different qualities of ‘eternality of time’ revealed by our time dilation experiments;
Time Dilation - General and Special Relativity - Chuck Missler - video http://www.metacafe.com/w/7013215/ Time dilation Excerpt: Time dilation: special vs. general theories of relativity: In Albert Einstein's theories of relativity, time dilation in these two circumstances can be summarized: 1. --In special relativity (or, hypothetically far from all gravitational mass), clocks that are moving with respect to an inertial system of observation are measured to be running slower. (i.e. For any observer accelerating, hypothetically, to the speed of light, time, as we understand it, will come to a complete stop). 2.--In general relativity, clocks at lower potentials in a gravitational field—such as in closer proximity to a planet—are found to be running slower. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation
i.e. As with any observer accelerating to the speed of light, it is found that for any observer falling into the event horizon of a black hole, that time, as we understand it, will come to a complete stop for them. — But of particular interest to the ‘eternal framework’ found for General Relativity at black holes;… It is also interesting to note that entropic decay (Randomness), which is the primary reason why things grow old and eventually die in this universe, is found to be greatest at black holes. Thus the ‘eternality of time’ found at black holes can rightly be called ‘eternalities of decay and/or eternalities of destruction’.
Entropy of the Universe - Hugh Ross - May 2010 Excerpt: Egan and Lineweaver found that supermassive black holes are the largest contributor to the observable universe’s entropy. They showed that these supermassive black holes contribute about 30 times more entropy than what the previous research teams estimated. http://www.reasons.org/entropy-universe Roger Penrose – How Special Was The Big Bang? “But why was the big bang so precisely organized, whereas the big crunch (or the singularities in black holes) would be expected to be totally chaotic? It would appear that this question can be phrased in terms of the behaviour of the WEYL part of the space-time curvature at space-time singularities. What we appear to find is that there is a constraint WEYL = 0 (or something very like this) at initial space-time singularities-but not at final singularities-and this seems to be what confines the Creator’s choice to this very tiny region of phase space.”
i.e. Black Holes are found to be 'timeless' singularities of destruction and disorder rather than singularities of creation and order such as the extreme order we see at the creation event of the Big Bang. Needless to say the implications of this 'eternality of destruction' should be fairly disturbing for those of us who are of the 'spiritually' minded persuasion! verse and music
Matthew 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Casting Crowns - Voice Of Truth - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwsvqVmFV6Y
bornagain77
October 31, 2011
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Bruce David as to:
who we actually are is something other than our bodies, something immortal.
Though atheists have long denied that there is anything eternal, and transcendent (a soul), within man, there is now a strong case to be made, from the scientific evidence we now have in hand, that each man does indeed have a unique eternal soul that lives forever in a higher timeless/eternal dimension. i.e. there is a mysterious 'higher dimensional' component to life: notes:
The predominance of quarter-power (4-D) scaling in biology Excerpt: Many fundamental characteristics of organisms scale with body size as power laws of the form: Y = Yo M^b, where Y is some characteristic such as metabolic rate, stride length or life span, Yo is a normalization constant, M is body mass and b is the allometric scaling exponent. A longstanding puzzle in biology is why the exponent b is usually some simple multiple of 1/4 (4-Dimensional scaling) rather than a multiple of 1/3, as would be expected from Euclidean (3-Dimensional) scaling. http://www.nceas.ucsb.edu/~drewa/pubs/savage_v_2004_f18_257.pdf “Although living things occupy a three-dimensional space, their internal physiology and anatomy operate as if they were four-dimensional. Quarter-power scaling laws are perhaps as universal and as uniquely biological as the biochemical pathways of metabolism, the structure and function of the genetic code and the process of natural selection.,,, The conclusion here is inescapable, that the driving force for these invariant scaling laws cannot have been natural selection." Jerry Fodor and Massimo Piatelli-Palmarini, What Darwin Got Wrong (London: Profile Books, 2010), p. 78-79 4-Dimensional Quarter Power Scaling In Biology - video http://www.metacafe.com/w/5964041/
Though Jerry Fodor and Massimo Piatelli-Palmarini rightly find it inexplicable for 'random' Natural Selection to be the rational explanation for the scaling of the physiology, and anatomy, of living things to four-dimensional parameters, they do not seem to fully realize the implications this 'four dimensional scaling' of living things presents. This 4-D scaling is something we should rightly expect from a Intelligent Design perspective. This is because Intelligent Design holds that ‘higher dimensional transcendent information’ is more foundational to life, and even to the universe itself, than either matter or energy are. This higher dimensional 'expectation' for life, from a Intelligent Design perspective, is directly opposed to the expectation of the Darwinian framework, which holds that information, and indeed even the essence of life itself, is merely an 'emergent' property of the 3-D material realm. Indeed this 'transcendent' component to life is found to be required from a thermodynamic perspective:
Information and entropy – top-down or bottom-up development in living systems? A.C. McINTOSH Excerpt: This paper highlights the distinctive and non-material nature of information and its relationship with matter, energy and natural forces. It is proposed in conclusion that it is the non-material information (transcendent to the matter and energy) that is actually itself constraining the local thermodynamics to be in ordered disequilibrium and with specified raised free energy levels necessary for the molecular and cellular machinery to operate. http://journals.witpress.com/paperinfo.asp?pid=420
And this transcendent component has indeed now been found within life.,,, Quantum Action confirmed in DNA by direct empirical research;
DNA Can Discern Between Two Quantum States, Research Shows - June 2011 Excerpt: -- DNA -- can discern between quantum states known as spin. - The researchers fabricated self-assembling, single layers of DNA attached to a gold substrate. They then exposed the DNA to mixed groups of electrons with both directions of spin. Indeed, the team's results surpassed expectations: The biological molecules reacted strongly with the electrons carrying one of those spins, and hardly at all with the others. The longer the molecule, the more efficient it was at choosing electrons with the desired spin, while single strands and damaged bits of DNA did not exhibit this property. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110331104014.htm Falsification Of Neo-Darwinism by Quantum Entanglement/Information https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p8AQgqFqiRQwyaF8t1_CKTPQ9duN8FHU9-pV4oBDOVs/edit?hl=en_US Does Quantum Biology Support A Quantum Soul? – Stuart Hameroff - video (notes in description) http://vimeo.com/29895068
It is very interesting to note that quantum entanglement, which conclusively demonstrates that ‘information’ in its pure 'quantum form' is completely transcendent of any time and space constraints, should be found in molecular biology on such a massive scale, for how can the quantum entanglement 'effect' in biology possibly be explained by a material (matter/energy) 'cause' when the quantum entanglement 'effect' falsified material particles as its own 'causation' in the first place? (A. Aspect) Appealing to the probability of various configurations of material particles, as Darwinism does, simply will not help since a timeless/spaceless cause must be supplied which is beyond the capacity of the material particles themselves to supply! To give a coherent explanation for an effect that is shown to be completely independent of any time and space constraints one is forced to appeal to a cause that is itself not limited to time and space! i.e. Put more simply, you cannot explain a effect by a cause that has been falsified by the very same effect you are seeking to explain! Improbability arguments of various 'special' configurations of material particles, which have been a staple of the arguments against neo-Darwinism, simply do not apply since the cause is not within the material particles in the first place! Yet it is also very interesting to note, in Darwinism's inability to explain this 'transcendent quantum effect' adequately, that Theism has always postulated a transcendent component to man that is not constrained by time and space. i.e. Theism has always postulated a 'eternal soul' for man that lives past the death of the body.
Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Further notes:
The Unbearable Wholeness of Beings - Steve Talbott Excerpt: Virtually the same collection of molecules exists in the canine cells during the moments immediately before and after death. But after the fateful transition no one will any longer think of genes as being regulated, nor will anyone refer to normal or proper chromosome functioning. No molecules will be said to guide other molecules to specific targets, and no molecules will be carrying signals, which is just as well because there will be no structures recognizing signals. Code, information, and communication, in their biological sense, will have disappeared from the scientist’s vocabulary. http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-unbearable-wholeness-of-beings Quantum no-deleting theorem Excerpt: A stronger version of the no-cloning theorem and the no-deleting theorem provide permanence to quantum information. To create a copy one must import the information from some part of the universe and to delete a state one needs to export it to another part of the universe where it will continue to exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_no-deleting_theorem#Consequence
bornagain77
October 31, 2011
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I recently watched the Ken Burns civil war docu. it confirmed to me what is the issue about killing humasn beings. Its about whether we can kill a human being and send them to their eternity for reasons other then saving other human beings from being killed. In short God has a higher standard for finding us guilty of murder then we do. We kill for less important reasons. This in Gods eyes is murder. Our value is as made in gods image. One could only kill that image to stop it killing another image. one can not say one is innocent because of no malice in ones heart. the soldier can't say I'M not a murderer because theres no malice in his heart when he shoots another soldier under national orders but ignorant of the reasons. Bank robbers can't FAIR AND SQUARE shoot chasing policeman and say its self defence or no malicious intent was in their heart and so they are not murderers. only self defence from being killed justifys killing someone save in punishment for a successful murder. This would cover actions for most of our wars. Not Vietnam or Iraq or Libya. It would cover the revolutionary war and civil war for the North. It would of eliminated most wars on earth. This is for man but not God.Robert Byers
October 31, 2011
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Yes, absolutely. But perhaps the higher causes or the ethical principles upon which such "higher causes" are based are problematic. Perhaps there are other ethical principles higher than the supposed ethical principles upon which such "higher causes" are based. Thanks for clarifying though. I wasn't trying to suggest that you were agreeing with euthanasia per se. I don't know. But I'm glad you clarified this.CannuckianYankee
October 30, 2011
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