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The Frontline Doctors put some “plausible” mechanisms for Hydroxychloroquine on the table

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In their July 28 seminar, the Frontline Doctors Group led by Dr Simone Gold, have put some plausible mechanisms for HCQ based cocktails on the table. These were noted on in an augmentation to an earlier post, but deserve headlining in their own right:

Dr Frieden OP: >>I have found at Bit Chute, a July 28 Frontline Doctors seminar which describes several mechanisms of action. Accordingly, I take liberty to annotate a screenshot, summarising several mechanisms of action described by these Doctors [cf. here for their references], but which are hard to find because of now almost pervasive censorship:

I add, that the above suggests a fairly similar viral attack process to the West Nile Virus (which is also an RNA virus), e.g.:

U/D, Mon Aug 16: I further add, a “DrBeen” — Dr Mobeen Syed — educational video, just found — this is the presenter summarised above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjkPdwlhI8A

I note, this first answers a puzzle on the mode of action, shape-shift of ACE2: the shift is INTERNAL to the cell by hindering “glycation” of the final AA (thus prior to exposure to buffering of blood etc), altering the shape enough to hamper S-protein reception. This reduces fusion with bilipid layer and RNA injection.

Other direct mechanisms as noted, reduce intracellular acidity thus action of organelles. They highlight stalling of assembly of new viri in the Golgi bodies, with implication of blocking export of fresh viri, thus hampering the multiplication chain. The by now well known indirect activity is that as a lipophilic molecule, HCQ enters the cell bilipid layer membrane, acting as a Zn ionophore, i.e. it “shoots” Zn into the cell. Zn in turn hinders a key viral enzyme, RdRP.

Thus, we see a plausible picture of causal action, involving multiple, synergistic effects. This lends credibility to the use of HCQ-based cosctails in treating the early viral phases of CV19.>>

Unfortunately, WP for UD is not set up to embed BitChute videos.

An odd bit of support for this, is that HCQ/CQ have been used as fish tank cleaner for about 40 years. The complex animals (the fish) live, but the crud from several kingdoms, dies. That points to attack modes that hit core cell processes, such as we may summarise:

That seems to be what is now on the table, through the effects of pH shifting, as proposed. In short, we have reasonable mechanisms to go with the reports of doctors who are treating CV 19 in the early, viral phase, with vulnerable group patients:

From this, we can freely say that it is going to be a challenge to refute the framework of issues and implicit model being presented in the open letter to Dr Fauci:

>>There is currently no recommended pharmacologic early outpatient treatment for individuals in the flu stage of the illness, correct?

It is true that COVID-19 is much more lethal than the flu for high-risk individuals such as older patients and those with significant comorbidities, correct?

Individuals with signs of early COVID-19 infection typically have a runny nose, fever, cough, shortness of breath, loss of smell, etc., and physicians send them home to rest, eat chicken soup etc., but offer no specific, targeted medications, correct?

These high-risk individuals are at high risk of death, on the order of 15% or higher, correct?

So just so we are clear—the current standard of care now is to send clinically stable symptomatic patients home, “with a wait and see” approach?

Are you aware that physicians are successfully using Hydroxychloroquine combined with Zinc and Azithromycin as a “cocktail” for early outpatient treatment of symptomatic, high-risk, individuals?

Have you heard of the “Zelenko Protocol,” for treating high-risk patients with COVID 19 as an outpatient?

Have you read Dr. Risch’s article in the American Journal of Epidemiology of the early outpatient treatment of COVID-19?

Are you aware that physicians using the medication combination or “cocktail” recommend use within the first 5 to 7 days of the onset of symptoms, before the illness impacts the lungs, or cytokine storm evolves?

Again, to be clear, your recommendation is no pharmacologic treatment as an outpatient for the flu—like symptoms in patients that are stable, regardless of their risk factors, correct?

Would you advocate for early pharmacologic outpatient treatment of symptomatic COVID-19 patients if you were confident that it was beneficial?

Are you aware that there are hundreds of physicians in the United States and thousands across the globe who have had dramatic success treating high-risk individuals as outpatients with this “cocktail?”

Are you aware that there are at least 10 studies demonstrating the efficacy of early outpatient treatment with the Hydroxychloroquine cocktail for high-risk patients — so this is beyond anecdotal, correct?

If one of your loved ones had diabetes or asthma, or any potentially complicating comorbidity, and tested positive for COVID-19, would you recommend “wait and see how they do” and go to the hospital if symptoms progress?

Even with multiple studies documenting remarkable outpatient efficacy and safety of the Hydroxychloroquine “cocktail,” you believe the risks of the medication combination outweigh the benefits?

Is it true that with regard to Hydroxychloroquine and treatment of COVID-19 infection, you have said repeatedly that “The Overwhelming Evidence of Properly Conducted Randomized Clinical Trials Indicate No Therapeutic Efficacy of Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ)?”

But NONE of the randomized controlled trials to which you refer were done in the first 5 to 7 days after the onset of symptoms- correct?

All of the randomized controlled trials to which you refer were done on hospitalized patients, correct?

Hospitalized patients are typically sicker that outpatients, correct?

None of the randomized controlled trials to which you refer used the full cocktail consisting of Hydroxychloroquine, Zinc, and Azithromycin, correct?

While the University of Minnesota study is referred to as disproving the cocktail, the meds were not given within the first 5 to 7 days of illness, the test group was not high risk (death rates were 3%), and no zinc was given, correct?

Again, for clarity, the trials upon which you base your opinion regarding the efficacy of Hydroxychloroquine, assessed neither the full cocktail (to include Zinc + Azithromycin or doxycycline) nor administered treatment within the first 5 to 7 days of symptoms, nor focused on the high-risk group, correct?

Therefore, you have no basis to conclude that the Hydroxychloroquine cocktail when used early in the outpatient setting, within the first 5 to 7 days of symptoms, in high risk patients, is not effective, correct?

It is thus false and misleading to say that the effective and safe use of Hydroxychloroquine, Zinc, and Azithromycin has been “debunked,” correct? How could it be “debunked” if there is not a single study that contradicts its use?

Should it not be an absolute priority for the NIH and CDC to look at ways to treat Americans with symptomatic COVID-19 infections early to prevent disease progression?

The SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 virus is an RNA virus. It is well-established that Zinc interferes with RNA viral replication, correct?

Moreover, is it not true that hydroxychloroquine facilitates the entry of zinc into the cell, is a “ionophore,” correct?

Isn’t also it true that Azithromycin has established anti-viral properties?

Are you aware of the paper from Baylor by Dr. McCullough et. al. describing established mechanisms by which the components of the “HCQ cocktail” exert anti-viral effects?

So- the use of hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin (or doxycycline) and zinc, the “HCQ cocktail,” is based on science, correct?>>

Let us see how the “game” moves forward beyond this point. END

PS: As an extra, here is Dr Zelenko:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ywj-PZTt4g

PPS: As a further extra, Aug 29, HT Jerry, Raoult et al on the pattern of cases and studies, involving 40,000+ cases:

Comments
Two words striking fear in the C19 panic mongers? Sweden and Switzerland. From Australia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXmwt_8tdNY&feature=youtu.bejerry
August 18, 2020
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Jerry, nobody questions the demographics. That data is available to everyone. The question is how to protect the most vulnerable. One way would be to put everyone in a high risk category into isolation until the virus runs its course. The other way is for everyone to do their part. I prefer the latter.Mac McTavish
August 18, 2020
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Could this be why certain commenters here are so ill informed? https://www.franklintempletonnordic.com/investor/article?contentPath=html/ftthinks/common/cio-views/on-my-mind-they-blinded-us-from-science.html
ON MY MIND: THEY BLINDED US FROM SCIENCE Americans still misperceive the risks of death from COVID-19 for different age cohorts—to a shocking extent; The misperception is greater for those who identify as Democrats, and for those who rely more on social media for information; partisanship and misinformation, to misquote Thomas Dolby, are blinding us from science; and We find a sizable “safety premium” that could become a significant driver of inflation as the recovery gets underway.
Scott Adams has a new name for this. It’s called “social media poisoning.”
jerry
August 18, 2020
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ET, I have repeatedly noted the saying of the old pharmacology prof in my UNI: pharmacology is the study of poisons in small doses. KFkairosfocus
August 17, 2020
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daves- that former crackhead is now a multimillionaire business owner and entrepreneur. It doesn't hurt to hear what he has to say and then get the experts to check it out.ET
August 17, 2020
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Even oxygen is poisonous @ large concentrations. Most, if not all, vitamins are very bad for you if you take too much. Too much protein is also bad. For centuries local peoples and scientists have harnessed the medicinal powers of poisons, toxins and venoms- The Power of Poison: Poison as MedicineET
August 17, 2020
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RHolt, you are talking about the front hedge (which is goat-proof). Guess who has to trim it? To make it more interesting, the next hedge is allamander, with just as ferocious a reputation to go with the yellow flowers. Let's just say, a careful job. All that's missing is poinsettias. KFkairosfocus
August 17, 2020
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There is the often told tale of boy scouts or a vacationing family cooking hotdogs on oleander skewer and being found dead. It is an urban legend but the history behind such stories is pretty interesting reaching back into the early 1800's. See the Snopes link below. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fatal-wienie-roast/ there are reported instances of people being made ill and even dying after ingesting oleander, e.g., chewing leaves. Oleandrin and other cardiac glycosides in the oleander plant aren't to be trifled with. If this is a proposed or existing supplement it likely contains no oleandrin and I'd venture a guess its offered as a homeopathic remedy......which of course must have nothing in it given how homeopathic nostrums are prepared.RHolt
August 17, 2020
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Oleander is a notoriously poisonous ornamental. There is a weird-looking orange caterpillar with black spikes that eats it (just checked, polka dot wasp moth) -- obvious poison warning colours, but that's the only thing I see eating it. Goats avoid like the plague. (Look, there is a type of iguana that eats manchineel, something so bad rain drops from it are caustic.) Obviously, powerful stuff is in it I have heard it compared to snake venom. What is it they are claiming to find? And BTW, a plant extract novelty is light years away from a drug approved and in use 65 years with a wide range of effects for which plausible mechanisms are on the table and thousands of successful cases with high risk groups. Say 1 in 10^3 odds of by chance success once, after a thousand times that is not plausible anymore. Meanwhile the quinine family and aspirin both started as plant extract, penicillin as bread mould and much more. KF PS: I find the thesis and tone of the article really out of line.kairosfocus
August 17, 2020
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Mac McT, I wonder if the Pillow Guy has ever thought, "Hmm, I'm a former crackhead. Maybe I should leave medicine, in particular alleged Covid cures, to people with some knowledge of the subject".daveS
August 17, 2020
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Interesting, there is a chart on Dr. Gold's site which displays which states are most restrictive on the use of HCQ. https://bit.ly/2PXnne0 Some surprises. Most restrictive states usually have a Democratic governor except Arkansas and Utah are exceptions. Most lenient states have Republican governors including two very liberal states, Massachusetts and Maryland which is unusual. But Minnesota just reversed course and has allowed more lenient use of HCQ, https://bit.ly/3145Hnm It also has the countries where it is freely purchased vs those that have moderate restrictions and those who have severe restrictions such as the US. Now here is a study which should be the basis for approval in the US. All received a treatment with prospects. Ivermectin vs HCQ, each with an anti-biotic. https://bit.ly/3g8D3FQ Ivermectin did much better, faster clearance of virus, but the age was too young to be appropriate. But a good start. Should have been done months ago.jerry
August 17, 2020
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Oregano oil has antiviral and anti-inflammatory properties.ET
August 17, 2020
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We should be looking at OTC supplements for a cure or to alleviate symptoms.ET
August 17, 2020
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Apparently Ben Carson and the My Pillow guy are pushing Trump to pressure FDA to approve oleander extract as a supplement and COVID-19 cure. https://www.axios.com/trump-covid-oleandrin-9896f570-6cd8-4919-af3a-65ebad113d41.htmlMac McTavish
August 17, 2020
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Just as an aside, the Been video shows the entry into the cell is through the ACE2 receptor on the cell wall. Something which we have known for quite awhile. This enzyme does not exist on all cell types so some cells will not see the virus get inside. The ACE2 receptor or enzyme has very specific properties in protecting the body from getting out of wack in terms of blood clotting. MedCram has spent several of their lectures on the effect on blood clotting and other functions that are inhibited or eliminated because the ACE2 receptors are taken out of action by the virus. In fact one of the ways the virus kills is to eliminate the processes normal set in motion because these enzymes are available. So when they are not available after the virus binds to the ACE2 enzymes, positive processes are no longer available in several parts of the body. Specifically cardiovascular processes and in the cell wall lining of blood vessels. Deterioration of the cell wall of blood vessels releases a protein that can cause havoc by increasing blood clots. (probably not expressed exactly so watch the MedCram videos on von Willebrand Factor - See MedCram 67 and 96)jerry
August 17, 2020
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Seversky @ # 2,
I don’t approve of censorship.
So? How are your beliefs or opinions binding on anyone else? What about the people who approve of censorship like the powers that be at Google and Twitter? They’re not bothered by anyone else’s so-called rights. They have the power to censor anyone they want for any reason they wish. That’s all that they need. It’s an example of the ancient principle of might makes right. (Didn’t Plato use that phrase in one of his dialogues?)
It is far better to have contentious arguments, views or opinions out there in the open where they can be examined by anyone. If they are right then we learn something new and if they are wrong then we still learn something by discovering how they are wrong.
Where are you getting your standard of right, wrong or better from? Whose standard is it? Your standard? So any so called consensus is really just the result of the way you are able manipulate-- perhaps by vilifying and demonizing-- someone else’s opposing opinion because there is no overarching real standard of right or wrong. That sounds pretty disingenuous to me.john_a_designer
August 17, 2020
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Kf, The Been video is extremely informative. It just puts icing on the cake of what has been discussed here for over 4 months. But to reiterate about the virus: Everyone who dies of C19 passes through a window where the virus is just beginning to spread. Everyone! Most who get the virus will pass through it without much effect but there is a very vulnerable part of the population that won't. This transition is believed to be about 1-7 days but maybe longer for some. It is during this transition that HCQ in combination with other ingredients seems to have the most effect. First on preventing the virus from entering the cells and secondly, enabling other ingredients to also enter the cell that would also inhibit the virus from replicating such as zinc. The video shows that HCQ also works inside the cell to inhibit virus replication. So HCQ works inside and outside the cell. It is during this time that the immune system starts to work to actually kill the virus cells. So common sense and it has always been good medical practice from treating other diseases is to treat early and boost the immune system. Here it is to introduce inhibitory drugs such as HCQ to prevent the virus from spreading. Other thing such as Vitamin C and Vitamin D seem to help boost the immune system. Other additives such as NAC inhibit negative processes from spreading after the virus attacks the ACE2 receptors. This is aside from later term use of HCQ to fight the virus when other medications and procedures are apparently much more effective. But in all cases the immune system should be enhanced because this will be the way the virus is ridden from the body. And by enhanced, the immune system should be prevented from over reacting and actually becoming a cause of damage to the body. But it is this window at the beginning that all pass through that HCQ and zinc seem best. It is also during this time that drugs like Ivermectin also seem effective. Also to reiterate, one of the main reasons I come here to discuss this issue is to learn and hone my understanding of the issues. The Been video has been a big addition.jerry
August 17, 2020
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JAD, excellent questions. usually, anarchy is the repeller pole that snaps back into tyranny on excuse of restoring order. KFkairosfocus
August 17, 2020
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Sev, you are of course on a side track. the reality is that many doctors work emergency on a part time basis. the dismissal is what is there and whether or not you like Fox News, it is real. Notice, the doctors writing to Dr Fauci, who have direct knowledge of circumstances, highlught it as one of several examples of what is going on. Meanwhile, we have some plausible mechanisms on the table with some circumstantial detail, now including a lecture. KFkairosfocus
August 17, 2020
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Why isn’t the Frontline Doctors seminar on YouTube? Why was Dr Gold censored on Twitter? Why was James Todaro’s paper (another speaker at the seminar) censored by Google? You can find a PDF copy of Todaro’s paper on his website. https://www.medicineuncensored.com/ Take a look at it. What’s unscientific or dangerous about it? When freedom speech goes (which is more broadly the freedom of thought, conscience and belief) there goes democracy. So what do you prefer? Anarchy or tyranny? Those are your choices.john_a_designer
August 17, 2020
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Kairosfocus @ 5
Sev, she was fired. Its timing is suspicious and reflects the climate of censorship and intimidation that now obtains
The only evidence that she was fired that I can find so far is her claim on the Tucker Carlson show on Fox. I have found another report which indicates she works part-time at an emergency care facility:
Gold, who featured prominently in the video at the U.S. Supreme Court and founded the America's Frontline Doctors group, works in the emergency department at Adventist Health Bakersfield. The hospital said last week Gold is part of its medical staff through a contract the hospital has with physicians group Sound Physicians Emergency Medicine of Southern California, PC. Sound Physicians confirmed Gold has worked for the group as a part-time, independent contractor.
Her name is still listed as a physician on the Sound Physicians Emergency Medicine of Southern California, PC site. This appears to be a different facility to the one cited in connection with the Fox News report. I find it concerning that it is so difficult to pin down where Dr Gold has and does work and in what capacity. If a doctor is not open and honest about his or her professional career and medical experience and practice then how can we trust their judgement on other medical matters?Seversky
August 17, 2020
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U/D: I have found a Dr Been vid (the Dr who presented the summary for Frontline Doctors), and have embedded the lecture. KFkairosfocus
August 17, 2020
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Sev, she was fired. Its timing is suspicious and reflects the climate of censorship and intimidation that now obtains. I append some questions from the open letter to Dr Fauci. KF PS: Questions:
Are you aware that doctors who are publicly advocating for such a strategy with the early use of the HCQ cocktail are being silenced with removal of content on the internet and even censorship in the medical community? You are aware of the 20 or so physicians who came to the Supreme Court steps advocating for the early use of the hydroxychloroquine cocktail. In fact, you said these were “a bunch of people spouting out something that isn’t true.” Dr. Fauci, these are not just “people,” these are doctors who actually treat patients, unlike you, correct? Do you know that the video they made went viral with 17 million views in just a few hours, and was then removed from the internet? Are you aware that their website, American Frontline Doctors, was taken down the next day? Did you see the way that Nigerian immigrant physician, Dr. Stella Immanuel, was mocked in the media for her religious views and called a “witch doctor?” Are you aware that Dr. Simone Gold, the leader of the group, was fired from her job as an Emergency Room physician the following day? Are you aware that physicians advocating for this treatment that has by now probably saved millions of lives around the globe are harassed by local health departments, state agencies and medical boards, and even at their own hospitals? Are you aware of that? Don’t you think doctors should have the right to speak out on behalf of their patients without the threat of retribution? Are you aware that videos and other educational information are removed off the internet and labeled, in the words of Mark Zuckerberg, as “misinformation?” Is it not misinformation to characterize hydroxychloroquine, in the doses used for early outpatient treatment of COVID-19 infections, as a dangerous drug? Is it not misleading for you to repeatedly state to the American public that randomized clinical trials are the sole source of information to confirm the efficacy of a treatment? Was it not misinformation when on CNN you cited the Lancet study based on false data from Surgisphere as evidence of the lack of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine? Is it not misinformation as is repeated in the MSM as a result of your comments that a randomized clinical trial is required by the FDA for a drug approval? Don’t you realize how much damage this falsehood perpetuates? How is it not misinformation for you and the FDA to keep telling the American public that hydroxychloroquine is dangerous when you know that there is nothing more than anecdotal evidence of that?
PPS: These are doctors on the front lines, their experience with up to hundreds of patients is as validly evidence as anything in a lab; especially as the effect in question seems quite strong, feeling "better" in 24 - 48 hours seems common, effective relief in the 5 - 7 day window of the prescription; that feeling better phase is of course notorious as the point many are tempted to discontinue medications, which has helped to build up drug resistant strains. Further to this, the summary I have outlined above comes from a summary of the literature. Watch the video and check their listed references. Advocacy is neither here nor there as regards truth or warrant in unfortunately controversial contexts, and the summary I clipped and annotated from is otherwise fairly hard to find; you are welcome to view the vid -- I cannot embed, as it is Bit Chute (YT has suppressed video by this group after it went viral). Summary is often an important service. It is probably not irrelevant that the presenter of that summary is obviously an immigrant from India, a country quite familiar with HCQ given Malaria.kairosfocus
August 17, 2020
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Kairosfocus @ 4
Sev, she was fired in 24 hours of her involvement with the conference and protest at the US Supreme Court building. That timing speaks for itself and its message is not just “cancel culture” but whistleblower retaliation.
I found the Fox News report claiming that she was fired but I can't find any other sources to corroborate that she was ever a permanent employee of Provident Saint Joseph Medical Center or, if she was, that she was fired by them. If the Fox News report is inaccurate then this would not be an example of "cancel culture" or whistleblower retaliation.
As for data you claim to look for, it has long been on the table now. Above is a bit of it, on causal mechanisms summarised from literature and presented in a seminar.I should note that proof is not in the gift of inductive logic and empirical investigation, we are looking at best, empirically warranted inference. However, much of what is being said is hard to dispute. KF
I was wondering if this group had data from their own practices in addition to what is already on the table. If they don't then they are just an advocacy group rather than a group conducting primary research whose data and analyses are being ignored by the public health establishment, which is what was implied.Seversky
August 16, 2020
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Sev, she was fired in 24 hours of her involvement with the conference and protest at the US Supreme Court building. That timing speaks for itself and its message is not just "cancel culture" but whistleblower retaliation. That, sadly, is where we are. As for data you claim to look for, it has long been on the table now. Above is a bit of it, on causal mechanisms summarised from literature and presented in a seminar.I should note that proof is not in the gift of inductive logic and empirical investigation, we are looking at best, empirically warranted inference. However, much of what is being said is hard to dispute. KF PS: Just for starters, Dr Risch's summary:
Every randomized controlled trial to date that has looked at early outpatient treatment has involved low-risk patients, patients who are not generally treated. In these studies, so few untreated control patients have required hospitalization that significant differences were not found. There has been only one exception: In a study done in Spain with low-risk patients, a small number of high-risk nursing home patients were included. For those patients, the medications cut the risk of a bad outcome in half. I reiterate: If doctors, including any of my Yale colleagues, tell you that scientific data show that hydroxychloroquine does not work in outpatients, they are revealing that they can’t tell the difference between low-risk patients who are not generally treated and high-risk patients who need to be treated as quickly as possible. Doctors who do not understand this difference should not be treating COVID-19 patients. What about medication safety? On July 1, the FDA posted a “black-letter warning” cautioning against using hydroxychloroquine “outside of the hospital setting,” meaning in outpatients. But on its website just below this warning, the FDA stated that the warning was based on data from hospitalized patients. To generalize and compare severely ill patients with COVID-induced pneumonia and possibly heart problems to outpatients is entirely improper. In fact, the FDA has no information about adverse events in early outpatient use of hydroxychloroquine. The only available systematic information about adverse events among outpatients is discussed in my article in the American Journal of Epidemiology, where I show that hydroxychloroquine has been extremely safe in more than a million users. It is a serious and unconscionable mistake that the FDA has used inpatient data to block emergency use petitions for outpatient use. Further, already back in March, the FDA approved the emergency use of hydroxychloroquine for hospitalized patients, for whom it is demonstrably less effective than for outpatients. If hydroxychloroquine satisfied the FDA criteria for emergency inpatient use in March, it should more than satisfy those criteria now for outpatient use, where the evidence is much stronger.
kairosfocus
August 16, 2020
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I don't know why Dr Gold was fired by her hospital but if it was because she expressed controversial opinions rather than for any professional incompetence then she should be reinstated. Whatever her views, we need every doctor we can get. I don't approve of censorship. It is far better to have contentious arguments, views or opinions out there in the open where they can be examined by anyone. If they are right then we learn something new and if they are wrong then we still learn something by discovering how they are wrong. That said, it is clear that there are many plausible mechanisms for how drugs or cocktails of drugs might work but that does not mean that one or even any of them is how they actually work. So the question is how do you decide reliably between them?. That it is not best achieved by forming advocacy groups but by conducting research. If Dr Gold and her colleagues have data that HCL alone or in combination with other agents demonstrates measurable efficacy against the SARS-CoV-2 virus then by all means put them on the table so that we can all look at them.Seversky
August 16, 2020
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HEADLINED: The Frontline Doctors put some “plausible” mechanisms for Hydroxychloroquine on the tablekairosfocus
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