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The Frontline Doctors put some “plausible” mechanisms for Hydroxychloroquine on the table

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In their July 28 seminar, the Frontline Doctors Group led by Dr Simone Gold, have put some plausible mechanisms for HCQ based cocktails on the table. These were noted on in an augmentation to an earlier post, but deserve headlining in their own right:

Dr Frieden OP: >>I have found at Bit Chute, a July 28 Frontline Doctors seminar which describes several mechanisms of action. Accordingly, I take liberty to annotate a screenshot, summarising several mechanisms of action described by these Doctors [cf. here for their references], but which are hard to find because of now almost pervasive censorship:

I add, that the above suggests a fairly similar viral attack process to the West Nile Virus (which is also an RNA virus), e.g.:

U/D, Mon Aug 16: I further add, a “DrBeen” — Dr Mobeen Syed — educational video, just found — this is the presenter summarised above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjkPdwlhI8A

I note, this first answers a puzzle on the mode of action, shape-shift of ACE2: the shift is INTERNAL to the cell by hindering “glycation” of the final AA (thus prior to exposure to buffering of blood etc), altering the shape enough to hamper S-protein reception. This reduces fusion with bilipid layer and RNA injection.

Other direct mechanisms as noted, reduce intracellular acidity thus action of organelles. They highlight stalling of assembly of new viri in the Golgi bodies, with implication of blocking export of fresh viri, thus hampering the multiplication chain. The by now well known indirect activity is that as a lipophilic molecule, HCQ enters the cell bilipid layer membrane, acting as a Zn ionophore, i.e. it “shoots” Zn into the cell. Zn in turn hinders a key viral enzyme, RdRP.

Thus, we see a plausible picture of causal action, involving multiple, synergistic effects. This lends credibility to the use of HCQ-based cosctails in treating the early viral phases of CV19.>>

Unfortunately, WP for UD is not set up to embed BitChute videos.

An odd bit of support for this, is that HCQ/CQ have been used as fish tank cleaner for about 40 years. The complex animals (the fish) live, but the crud from several kingdoms, dies. That points to attack modes that hit core cell processes, such as we may summarise:

That seems to be what is now on the table, through the effects of pH shifting, as proposed. In short, we have reasonable mechanisms to go with the reports of doctors who are treating CV 19 in the early, viral phase, with vulnerable group patients:

From this, we can freely say that it is going to be a challenge to refute the framework of issues and implicit model being presented in the open letter to Dr Fauci:

>>There is currently no recommended pharmacologic early outpatient treatment for individuals in the flu stage of the illness, correct?

It is true that COVID-19 is much more lethal than the flu for high-risk individuals such as older patients and those with significant comorbidities, correct?

Individuals with signs of early COVID-19 infection typically have a runny nose, fever, cough, shortness of breath, loss of smell, etc., and physicians send them home to rest, eat chicken soup etc., but offer no specific, targeted medications, correct?

These high-risk individuals are at high risk of death, on the order of 15% or higher, correct?

So just so we are clear—the current standard of care now is to send clinically stable symptomatic patients home, “with a wait and see” approach?

Are you aware that physicians are successfully using Hydroxychloroquine combined with Zinc and Azithromycin as a “cocktail” for early outpatient treatment of symptomatic, high-risk, individuals?

Have you heard of the “Zelenko Protocol,” for treating high-risk patients with COVID 19 as an outpatient?

Have you read Dr. Risch’s article in the American Journal of Epidemiology of the early outpatient treatment of COVID-19?

Are you aware that physicians using the medication combination or “cocktail” recommend use within the first 5 to 7 days of the onset of symptoms, before the illness impacts the lungs, or cytokine storm evolves?

Again, to be clear, your recommendation is no pharmacologic treatment as an outpatient for the flu—like symptoms in patients that are stable, regardless of their risk factors, correct?

Would you advocate for early pharmacologic outpatient treatment of symptomatic COVID-19 patients if you were confident that it was beneficial?

Are you aware that there are hundreds of physicians in the United States and thousands across the globe who have had dramatic success treating high-risk individuals as outpatients with this “cocktail?”

Are you aware that there are at least 10 studies demonstrating the efficacy of early outpatient treatment with the Hydroxychloroquine cocktail for high-risk patients — so this is beyond anecdotal, correct?

If one of your loved ones had diabetes or asthma, or any potentially complicating comorbidity, and tested positive for COVID-19, would you recommend “wait and see how they do” and go to the hospital if symptoms progress?

Even with multiple studies documenting remarkable outpatient efficacy and safety of the Hydroxychloroquine “cocktail,” you believe the risks of the medication combination outweigh the benefits?

Is it true that with regard to Hydroxychloroquine and treatment of COVID-19 infection, you have said repeatedly that “The Overwhelming Evidence of Properly Conducted Randomized Clinical Trials Indicate No Therapeutic Efficacy of Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ)?”

But NONE of the randomized controlled trials to which you refer were done in the first 5 to 7 days after the onset of symptoms- correct?

All of the randomized controlled trials to which you refer were done on hospitalized patients, correct?

Hospitalized patients are typically sicker that outpatients, correct?

None of the randomized controlled trials to which you refer used the full cocktail consisting of Hydroxychloroquine, Zinc, and Azithromycin, correct?

While the University of Minnesota study is referred to as disproving the cocktail, the meds were not given within the first 5 to 7 days of illness, the test group was not high risk (death rates were 3%), and no zinc was given, correct?

Again, for clarity, the trials upon which you base your opinion regarding the efficacy of Hydroxychloroquine, assessed neither the full cocktail (to include Zinc + Azithromycin or doxycycline) nor administered treatment within the first 5 to 7 days of symptoms, nor focused on the high-risk group, correct?

Therefore, you have no basis to conclude that the Hydroxychloroquine cocktail when used early in the outpatient setting, within the first 5 to 7 days of symptoms, in high risk patients, is not effective, correct?

It is thus false and misleading to say that the effective and safe use of Hydroxychloroquine, Zinc, and Azithromycin has been “debunked,” correct? How could it be “debunked” if there is not a single study that contradicts its use?

Should it not be an absolute priority for the NIH and CDC to look at ways to treat Americans with symptomatic COVID-19 infections early to prevent disease progression?

The SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 virus is an RNA virus. It is well-established that Zinc interferes with RNA viral replication, correct?

Moreover, is it not true that hydroxychloroquine facilitates the entry of zinc into the cell, is a “ionophore,” correct?

Isn’t also it true that Azithromycin has established anti-viral properties?

Are you aware of the paper from Baylor by Dr. McCullough et. al. describing established mechanisms by which the components of the “HCQ cocktail” exert anti-viral effects?

So- the use of hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin (or doxycycline) and zinc, the “HCQ cocktail,” is based on science, correct?>>

Let us see how the “game” moves forward beyond this point. END

PS: As an extra, here is Dr Zelenko:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ywj-PZTt4g

PPS: As a further extra, Aug 29, HT Jerry, Raoult et al on the pattern of cases and studies, involving 40,000+ cases:

Comments
Didier Raoult Trashing Darwin
“Charles Darwin’s vision of the world deeply influenced biology in the twentieth century. Today, however, his theory of evolution is more a hindrance than a help, because it has become a quasi-theological creed that is preventing the benefits of improved research from being fully realized." Didier Raoult, Life After Darwin
Truthfreedom
August 28, 2020
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MMT, the US is sliding over the cliff into high kinetic 4th gen civil war, with its toxic media bearing heavy responsibility.
Yes, the media bears responsibility. Just as they bore responsibility when reporting on repeated civil rights abuses in the 60s. And they bore responsibility for continuing to investigate Nixon and the Watergate scandal. And they bore responsibility for reporting on the “me too” movement. And they bore responsibility for reporting on the injustices born against homosexuals for decades. And they bore responsibility for holding men responsible for how they treat women. The media is far from perfect, but they do have a tendency of reflecting the concerns of the majority of the population. The fact that you disagree with them so much may be a greater reflection on you than on them.Mac McTavish
August 28, 2020
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RH7, you would be advised to note the just above. More than enough evidence of effectiveness of HCT-based cocktails is on the table, what is relevant is the ways and means by which dismissiveness has been turned into a domineering, censoring narrative and interference with the professional judgement of physicians. KFkairosfocus
August 28, 2020
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MMT, the US is sliding over the cliff into high kinetic 4th gen civil war, with its toxic media bearing heavy responsibility. Such has utterly no relevance to what has been shown, including what after a quarter of a thousand comments has yet to be either confuted or taken seriously by objectors. Credible mechanisms which match to actual observations. We will take due note on what the patterns tell us. KFkairosfocus
August 28, 2020
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I think this speaks for itself. https://apple.news/AgN9JbA4XRDqf-7fT69UCUg It speaks volumes that countries that were initially hit hard (eg Spain and Italy) think that their governments responded well to COVID. US, on the other hand...Mac McTavish
August 28, 2020
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For Florian Cova, co-author of the hoax on scooters and hydroxychloroquine, the Marseille professor mistreats thinkers in order to justify his practices. The whole world, or almost, now knows the thunderous positions taken by Didier Raoult on the Covid-19 epidemic. But for many years now, through both his chronicles and his books, the Marseille microbiologist has been giving equally strong opinions on the history of science and philosophy, relying in particular on epistemologists such as Karl Popper, Thomas K. Kuhn and Paul Feyerabend. A pure intellectual sham according to Florian Cova, assistant professor in the philosophy department of the University of Geneva. This researcher has just published a scathing text in Medium in which he assures us that Didier Raoult only appeals to philosophy, and in particular to the philosophy of science, only to justify his own unorthodox methods and to be able to stage himself as a solitary genius. and revolutionary, even if it means making gross errors in its philosophical references. Florian Cova is also the co-author of a resounding hoax on the links between hydroxychloroquine and scooters to denounce the predatory journals that have published bogus studies on hydroxychloroquine. While the Marseille microbiologist has just returned to the media, he explains to the Express how Didier Raoult is becoming more and more radicalized, supported by a base of anti-system supporters. https://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/idees-et-debats/didier-raoult-fait-dire-aux-philosophes-le-contraire-de-ce-qu-ils-ont-ecrit_2133662.htmlrhampton7
August 28, 2020
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Carol Iwuoha, Consultant, Public Health and Community Medicine Physician, has warned against self-medication in the handling of COVID-19. She said that several cases of drug toxicity, especially from irrational use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, had been recorded. Iwuoha, who is the Chairman, Abia State Inter-Ministerial Committee on COVID-19, warned against the management of COVID-19 at chemist and patent medicine stores. She called for adherence to COVID-19 protocols, including regular hand-washing, use of hand sanitisers and face masks as well as physical distancing. She said that the protocols provide barrier protection to people and their neighbours. Iwuoha, a former state Chairman of the Nigeria Medical Association, advocated early presentation when one had the symptoms of COVID-19. According to her, this has made the difference between those who survived and those we have sadly lost to COVID-19. https://naija247news.com/2020/08/28/covid-19-expert-warns-against-self-medication/rhampton7
August 28, 2020
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Hydroxychloroquine was one of the most heavily studied drugs this spring, and study after study has shown that it’s not an effective treatment for sick patients. But scientists still don’t, and may never, know if it works as a prophylaxis that prevents infections. “The fact that it’s August and it’s still an open question is an embarrassment,” Walid Gellad, who leads the Center for Pharmaceutical Policy and Prescribing at the University of Pittsburgh, told BuzzFeed News. The deeper systemic issue is that there have only been a handful of large, rigorous trials for hydroxychloroquine or, for that matter, any potential treatment. These randomized controlled trials, where some people receive a treatment and others a placebo, are the gold standard in medicine for determining if a drug works. In the near-absence of coordination among national and global health agencies, separate clusters of scientists have run smaller, less definitive trials. And for months, the FDA allowed hydroxychloroquine to be given to COVID-19 patients outside of clinical trials. That further drained the pool of people who might be willing to enroll in a trial and risk getting a placebo, in turn muddling the evidence about what worked and didn’t. History is now repeating itself with convalescent plasma. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemlee/hydroxychloroquine-clinical-trials-preventionrhampton7
August 28, 2020
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Australia’s Acting Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly has said the drug – which has been labelled “potentially harmful” by the country’s peak COVID research body – “doesn’t work”. Australia’s Deputy Chief Medical Officer Nick Coatsworth backed him up on Friday. “Paul Kelly, like myself, like all clinicians around Australia, understands that regrettably hydroxychloroquine is not effective for COVID-19. “While I understand why there are many Australians out there looking for a solution, we have solutions come across our desk literally every day and have to work whether they are or they aren’t effective.” “I believe we have tonnes of hydroxychloroquine in this country, which was really generously donated by Clive Palmer, early on in the pandemic where there was a possibility hydroxychloroquine would be useful,” he said. “Now, there are no circumstances where we, as government, or clinicians, would sit on several tonnes worth of hydroxychloroquine in the national medical stockpile if it were useful for COVID-19. We would be giving it to patients right now. “But unfortunately it’s not — the trials are very clear on that. https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coatsworths-hilarious-response-to-hydroxychloroquine-question/news-story/55584b3641b86f8437a58f05557ce1bdrhampton7
August 28, 2020
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What’s really happening with the virus. Here is a report by a guy calling himself Gummi Bear that is making the rounds. Is T cell immunity what is happening? Does it explain why East Asia and Southeast Asia are doing so well? And why the rest of us are next? https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1298246346974154757.htmljerry
August 28, 2020
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Turkey apparently has a good record with the virus. Its current deaths per million is 74. I assume it is close to accurate but it’s hard to know for sure. An article was published today what one major medical center was doing. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10096-020-04016-1
A novel approach to managing COVID-19 patients; results of lopinavir plus doxycycline cohort. We managed COVID-19 patients with a 3-step treatment approach in our institute. First, mild cases were isolated at home and prescribed with hydroxychloroquine plus doxycycline for 3 days. Second, moderate to severe cases were hospitalized and prescribed with a regimen of lopinavir plus doxycycline plus ceftriaxone for 5 days. Third, we used a salvage therapy for patients who did not respond to or whose conditions worsened under the lopinavir treatment. This therapy involved the oral administration of favipiravir 600 mg twice daily after two loading doses
It’s not necessarily a report on what has worked or not worked but a report on what they are doing in one medical center and why.jerry
August 28, 2020
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Were most deaths caused by opposition to early treatment? No.
If I were interested in the money I would be arguing yes, and all the information is on my side. The Belgian study reference above reduced deaths a third in hospital. That good for 50-60 thousand in the US. That's after the periods where treatments would prevent people getting to hospital should have been given. So my guess double that a minimum.
If we had acted earlier with social distancing, restricting travel and wearing masks, almost certainly.
And most certainly killed a lot more. I was social distancing since early March and so was everyone I saw and still see most today. There is an expression, "going viral." Lockdowns and all that go with it do not get rid of the virus so it will get most eventually. I would take that side in the argument too. Lockdowns kill big time.jerry
August 28, 2020
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Jerry
Were most deaths caused by opposition to early treatment?
No.
Could most of these deaths have been avoided?
If we had acted earlier with social distancing, restricting travel and wearing masks, almost certainly.Mac McTavish
August 28, 2020
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Where is this study? A report was issued in a press release in New York City in early May about a study that was conducted at NYU and posted by BA77. https://bit.ly/3hCIK0r
Drug Combo with Hydroxychloroquine Promising: NYU Study The study looked at the records of 932 COVID-19 patients treated at local hospitals with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. More than 400 of them were also given 100 milligrams of zinc daily. Researchers said the patients given zinc were one and a half times more likely to recover, decreasing their need for intensive care.
I searched and couldn't find it anywhere. Fits in with the "people did not need to die" narrative just above. On May 12, the date of the article the total US deaths were 86 thousand. Now it is 85 thousand more. Could most of these have been prevented? Zelenko started to get traction in late March and NY Times quickly did a hit piece instead of saying why not try this. It's harmless and cost next to nothing. Or are they just dots on the landscape as we justify them for our personal motives?jerry
August 28, 2020
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CDC predicts 200,000 deaths by September 19
Were most deaths caused by opposition to early treatment? Could most of these deaths have been avoided? Do those who have opposed early treatment have blood on their hands? A lot of people are accusing Fauci of this. Do they have a valid point? What is the morality of arguing against early treatment with what appears to be a treatment that has some or a lot of effectiveness? Will the lawyers start taking up the cause of those who died unnecessarily? Will see if they eat their own? A lot of questions that a lot of people don't want any answers to.jerry
August 28, 2020
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Mac Mc Tavish
CDC predicts 200,000 deaths by September 19.
Fine.
"In a Universe (or multiverse*) of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The Universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference". Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life
Truthfreedom
August 28, 2020
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CDC predicts 200,000 deaths by September 19. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/forecasting-us.htmlMac McTavish
August 28, 2020
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I'm sorry, kf, I'm still not getting what you are trying to communicate.Bob O'H
August 28, 2020
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a point of balance, as you wrote earlier as if I had not pointed to such, to wit: 238 >>That people fighting cancer or diabetes or with heart problems have bodies already under stress? That asthmatics and the like have stressed, malfunctioning, over-reactive immune systems? And the like? Why would such be even in the faintest degree a puzzle? Likewise, deficiencies of diet etc are patently material.>>kairosfocus
August 28, 2020
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kf - Yes, so ...?Bob O'H
August 28, 2020
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BO'H, I pointed to thewider generally accepted vulnerability patterns also. KFkairosfocus
August 28, 2020
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kf @ 238 -
BO’H: isn’t it obvious that older people are sicker with less effective immune systems, aka aging?
Yes, which explains why they are more likely to succumb to Covid-19. But for me that's a quantitative difference, not a qualitative one: some younger people also have less effective immune systems (and immune system efficacy is also quantitative). Jerry @ 239 - you're just moving the goalposts now, aren't you?Bob O'H
August 28, 2020
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Hope!! Incredible video on HCQ based on Belgian study. https://bit.ly/2Qv3BqH A doubter changes his mind. Realizes Recovery travel was giving 8-10 times the recommended dose of HCQ. Were they poisoning the patients? Includes analysis of Brazilian study which shows no difference but with about 10% of the number of patients as the Belgian study.jerry
August 27, 2020
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Five studies focused on HCQ effectiveness. Author - Location....number of patients....mortality HCQ....mortality no HCQ....Relative Risk....dosage Sbidian Paris....4,415....17.8....21.9....-18.7% Low https://bit.ly/3b109gG Catteau Belgium....8,075....17.7....27.1...-34.7% Low https://bit.ly/2CTCnXl Castelnuovo Italy....3,451....14.7....23.3....-36.9% Low https://bit.ly/32wkwOW Arshad USA....2,541....13.5....26.4....-48.9% Low https://bit.ly/3dVshSq RECOVERY UK....4,716....26.8....25.0....+7.2% High Did the Recovery study actually kill patients by administering high dosages of HCQ? Will they ever admit it? Unlikely even if true. These studies are just for HCQ and do not include any additives such as zinc or Azithromycin which may be much more effective. And now we have other possible positives for treatments. How many dead are due to the pressure from certain sectors to malign the treatments with HCQ. There are others that I will add to this list.jerry
August 27, 2020
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maybe half his subjects would have cleared the virus naturally
Probably much higher would be expected. Raoult did an analysis of over 3700 patients with C19 and about 94% had a good clinical outcome. This is what is expected. Most indeed were below 60 years old. But no one under 60 died with or without treatment. So if you look at percentages that died over 60 it is 3.2% for treatment and 9.3% without treatment. For those who went to ICU the percentages for over 60 were 3.0% for treatment and 10.4% without treatment. For death and or ICU the percentages for over 60 were 5.0% for treatment and 17.6% without treatment. For the young patients who were infected and went to the ICU the percentages were 0.5% for treatment and 7.2% without treatment. Those with a poor clinical outcome, death, ICU or greater than 10 days in hospital the percentages were 3.9% for treatment and 17.6% without treatment. So this points to a positive effect for HCQ. Not 100% but much better than the alternative. If the percentage reduction in death were applied to the non HCQ treated people who died of C19 the number saved would be almost a half million people world wide. So those who argue against HCQ are arguing for having a lot of unnecessary dead people.jerry
August 27, 2020
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An international collaboration of researchers across more than 80 countries has come to the conclusion that chloroquine (CQ) and hydroxchloroquine (HCQ) are unlikely to provide clinical benefit against COVID-19. In a new commentary paper co-authored by Wyss Founding Director Donald Ingber, M.D., Ph.D., a group of scientists describe multiple recent studies in human Organ Chips and other multi-tissue in vitro models, mice, hamsters, and non-human primates, all of which strongly indicate the drugs do not have the efficacy suggested by earlier results obtained from in vitro studies with cultured cell lines. The paper was published today in Nature Communications. I n an effort to provide more accurate data about the drugs' potential activity in humans than could be obtained from in vitro cells or mice, the co-authors of the new paper oversaw research projects in several different countries that evaluated CQ and HCQ's anti-SARS-CoV-2 activity in human Organ Chips and other more complex in vitro human tissue models, as well as hamsters and two species of non-human primates. Human lung chips developed at the Wyss Institute and commercialized by Emulate, Inc. were used to test CQ's effect on lung cells infected with SARS-CoV-2 pseudoviruses (lentivirus particles engineered to express the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein). CQ did not significantly inhibit the replication of the SARS-CoV-2 Spike pseudotyped viruses in the lung cells, and more recent findings confirmed that HCQ is ineffective as well. Meanwhile, in France, a research team at Inserm developed another complex human in vitro model system called MucilAir, which is derived from primary nasal or bronchial cells differentiated and cultivated under an air/liquid interface. In alignment with the findings by the Wyss Institute, Inserm concluded that HCQ does not significantly inhibit SARS-CoV-2 infection in their human respiratory tissue model. More https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-08-hydroxychloroquine-inhibit-sars-cov-infection-preclinical.htmlrhampton7
August 27, 2020
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The researchers looked at data from nine hospitals in the Netherlands, two of which never prescribed HCQ and seven which prescribed the drug routinely – three immediately on a positive test and four only when the patient’s condition deteriorated. The data ranged from 27 February when the first case was reported in the Netherlands to 15 May, when government guidelines no longer supported the use of HCQ. In all, the data on 1,893 patients was included. On initial examination, it appeared that mortality among the 1,552 subjects at HCQ hospitals was 23.4%, whereas it was 17% among the 341 subjects from the non-HCQ hospitals. However, once the figures were adjusted for age, sex and co-morbidities – pre-existing conditions like diabetes and cardiac disease likely to increase the severity of Covid-19 – there was very little difference at all in mortality rates. Likewise, there was no difference between those who received HCQ immediately on testing positive and those who received the drug only when their condition deteriorated. In other words, the use of HCQ on patients with Covid-19, either immediately or only when symptoms increased, made no appreciable difference to the patients’ chances of survival. “This clearly shows that prescribing the drug had no positive effect,” another of the researchers, Jonne Sikkens, told De Volkskrant. “Our conclusion would be to stop using it in the treatment of Covid-19.” https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/health/128697/dutch-study-shows-no-benefits-from-hydroxychloroquine/rhampton7
August 27, 2020
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And it’s also been pointed out that DR Raoult’s studies had a mean age of 45. So his results are untrustworthy because maybe half his subjects would have cleared the virus naturallyrhampton7
August 27, 2020
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there have been RCTs for “after they’ve shown symptoms and before they require hospitalization”. Here are 3 showing no effect:
All three of the studies listed show positive effects for HCQ, but sample sizes are too small for statistics significance. Two of the three studies are survey studies and have no way to ascertain what really happened. There was no doctor overseeing the interview and compliance with anything. Essentially there are the useless because of this despite the positive results for HCQ. The third study from Spain also had small positive results for HCQ but it too lacked the numbers for statistics significance. The samples were too small. All three are irrelevant because of the young sample who were mostly health care workers. These individuals would be expected to eliminate the virus naturally almost at a rate of 100% if infected. None of the studies used hospitalization or death as a way of evaluating the intervention. These reflect the difficulty of recruiting relevant patients. Best to use the information from doctors who have been treating the high risk patients. With high risk patients there would be an ethical challenge to admit anyone to a treatment that would ensure that some would die. But this has all been explained before and the same irrelevant studies keep being linked to.
I still haven’t seen any such explanation.
Of course you have seen explanations. Age being the main one indicating the strength of the immune system is very different. Also relatively young active individuals such as health care workers may represent an unusual population.jerry
August 27, 2020
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Aug
27
27
2020
11:20 AM
11
11
20
AM
PDT
BO'H: isn't it obvious that older people are sicker with less effective immune systems, aka aging? That people fighting cancer or diabetes or with heart problems have bodies already under stress? That asthmatics and the like have stressed, malfunctioning, over-reactive immune systems? And the like? Why would such be even in the faintest degree a puzzle? Likewise, deficiencies of diet etc are patently material. KFkairosfocus
August 27, 2020
August
08
Aug
27
27
2020
08:21 AM
8
08
21
AM
PDT
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