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He said it: Prof Lewontin’s strawman “justification” for imposing a priori materialist censorship on origins science

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Yesterday, in the P Z Myers quote-mining and distortion thread, I happened to cite Lewontin’s infamous 1997 remark in his NYRB article, “Billions and Billions of Demons,” on a priori imposition of materialist censorship on origins science, which reads in the crucial part:

It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.

To my astonishment, I was promptly accused of quote-mining and even academic malpractice, because I omitted the following two sentences, which — strange as it may seem —  some evidently view as justifying the above censoring imposition:

The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen.

To my mind, instead, these last two sentences are such a sad reflection of bias and ignorance, that their omission is an act of charity to a distinguished professor.

Similar, in fact, to how I also did not refer to the case prof Lewontin also cited, of what we were invited to believe was a “typical fundamentalist”  woman who disbelieved the TV broadcasts of the Moon landing in 1969 on grounds that she could not receive broadcasts from Dallas. By telling contrast, Lewontin somehow omitted to mention that the designer of the Moon rocket, Werner von Braun, was a Bible-believing, Evangelical Christian and Creationist who kept a well-thumbed Gideon Bible in his office.

The second saddest thing in this, is that ever so many now seem to be unaware that:

1: Historically, it was specifically that theistic confidence in an orderly cosmos governed by a wise and orderly Creator that gave modern science much of its starting impetus from about 1200 to 1700. Newton’s remarks in his General Scholium to his famous work, Principia (which introduces his Laws of Motion and Gravitation), are a classic illustration of this historical fact.

[Let me add an excerpt from the GS: “[[t]his most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being . . . It is allowed by all that the Supreme God exists necessarily; and by the same necessity he exists always, and every where. [[i.e. he accepts the cosmological argument to God] . . . We know him only by his most wise and excellent contrivances of things, and final cause [[i.e from his designs] . . . Blind metaphysical necessity, which is certainly the same always and every where, could produce no variety of things. [[i.e. necessity does not produce contingency].  All that diversity of natural things which we find suited to different times and places could arise from nothing but the ideas and will of a Being necessarily existing. [[That is, he implicitly rejects chance, Plato’s third alternative and explicitly infers to the Designer of the Cosmos.]”]

2: As C S Lewis and many other popular as well as technical theological and historical writers point out (cf. here, here and here), in theism, miracles are signs pointing from the ordinary course of the world to the special intervention of God. As such, a world in which miracles happen MUST be a world in which there is an ordinary, predictable day to day course of events — one that is amenable to science, rather than the rationality-sapping chaos Beck and Lewontin imagine.

3: Similarly, one of the major, well-known emphases of theism is our accountability before God as morally governed agents and stewards of our world. Such accountability is only reasonable in a cosmos where choices and actions have reliably predictable consequences. Such a world, again, is one in which science is possible.

4: In light of such facts, it is unsurprising that the leading scientists of the foundational era of modern science  often saw themselves as thinking God’s creative and sustaining thoughts after him.

5: Going beyond that, as Nancy Pearcey rightly pointed out in her 2005 article, “Christianity is a Science-starter, not a Science-stopper”:

Most historians today agree that the main impact Christianity had on the origin and development of modern science was positive.  Far from being a science stopper, it is a science starter . . . .

[T]his should come as no surprise.  After all, modern science arose in one place and one time only: It arose out of medieval Europe, during a period when its intellectual life was thoroughly permeated with a Christian worldview.  Other great cultures, such as the Chinese and the Indian, often developed a higher level of technology and engineering.  But their expertise tended to consist of practical know-how and rules of thumb.  They did not develop what we know as experimental science–testable theories organized into coherent systems.  Science in this sense has appeared only once in history.  As historian Edward Grant writes, “It is indisputable that modern science emerged in the seventeenth century in Western Europe and nowhere else.”[7]. . . .

The church fathers taught that the material world came from the hand of a good Creator, and was thus essentially good.  The result is described by a British philosopher of science, Mary Hesse: “There has never been room in the Hebrew or Christian tradition for the idea that the material world is something to be escaped from, and that work in it is degrading.”  Instead, “Material things are to be used to the glory of God and for the good of man.”[19] Kepler is, once again, a good example.  When he discovered the third law of planetary motion (the orbital period squared is proportional to semi-major axis cubed, or P[superscript 2] = a [superscript 3]), this was for him “an astounding confirmation of a geometer god worthy of worship.  He confessed to being ‘carried away by unutterable rapture at the divine spectacle of heavenly harmony’.”[20] In the biblical worldview, scientific investigation of nature became both a calling and an obligation.  As historian John Hedley Brooke explains, the early scientists “would often argue that God had revealed himself in two books—the book of His words (the Bible) and the book of His works (nature).  As one was under obligation to study the former, so too there was an obligation to study the latter.”[21] The rise of modern science cannot be explained apart from the Christian view of nature as good and worthy of study, which led the early scientists to regard their work as obedience to the cultural mandate to “till the garden”. . . .

Today the majority of historians of science agree with this positive assessment of the impact the Christian worldview had on the rise of science.  Yet even highly educated people remain ignorant of this fact.  Why is that? The answer is that history was founded as a modern discipline by Enlightenment figures such as Voltaire, Gibbon, and Hume who had a very specific agenda: They wanted to discredit Christianity while promoting rationalism.  And they did it by painting the middle ages as the “Dark Ages,” a time of ignorance and superstition.  They crafted a heroic saga in which modern science had to battle fierce opposition and oppression from Church authorities.  Among professional historians, these early accounts are no longer considered reliable sources.  Yet they set the tone for the way history books have been written ever since.  The history of science is often cast as a secular morality tale of enlightenment and progress against the dark forces of religion and superstition. Stark puts it in particularly strong terms: “The ‘Enlightenment’ [was] conceived initially as a propaganda ploy by militant atheists and humanists who attempted to claim credit for the rise of science.”[22] Stark’s comments express a tone of moral outrage that such bad history continues to be perpetuated, even in academic circles.  He himself published an early paper quoting the standards texts, depicting the relationship between Christianity and science as one of constant “warfare.”  He now seems chagrined to learn that, even back then, those stereotypes had already been discarded by professional historians.[23]

Today the warfare image has become a useful tool for politicians and media elites eager to press forward with a secularist agenda . . . [The whole article is well worth the read, here.]

Perhaps, the saddest thing is, even with such correction on the record, many will be so taken in by the myth of the ages-long war of religion attacking science, and by the caricature of the religious as “ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked,” that they will still fail to see that the last two sentences cited from Lewontin above, provide not a justification for materialist censorship on the very definition and methods of science, but instead a further proof of just how ill-instructed, polarising and pernicious such a priori imposition of materialism is.

At the expense of simplicity (and while reserving the right to excerpt from the wider commented quote and using a link back to show the context), I have therefore decided to adjust the commented quotation as follows, to provide a correction on the record:

_____________

>> a key danger of putting materialistic philosophical blinkers on science is that it can easily lead on to the practical establishment of materialistic ideology under false colours of “truth” or the closest practical approximation we can get to it. Where that happens, those who object may then easily find themselves tagged and dismissed as pseudo-scientific (or even fraudulent) opponents of progress, knowledge, right and truth; which can then lead on to very unfair or even unjust treatment at the hands of those who wield power. Therefore, if religious censorship of science (as in part happened to Galileo etc.) was dangerous and unacceptable, materialist censorship must also be equally wrong.

Nor is this danger merely imaginary or a turn-about false accusation, as some would suggest.
For, we may read from Harvard Professor Richard Lewontin’s 1997 New York Review of Books review of the late Cornell Professor Carl Sagan’s The Demon-Haunted World, as follows:
. . . to put a correct view of the universe into people’s heads we must first get an incorrect view out . . .   the problem is to get them to reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world, the demons that exist only in their imaginations, and to accept a social and intellectual apparatus, Science, as the only begetter of truth [[NB: this is a knowledge claim about knowledge and its possible sources, i.e. it is a claim in philosophy not science; it is thus self-refuting]. . . . To Sagan, as to all but a few other scientists, it is self-evident [[actually, science and its knowledge claims are plainly not immediately and necessarily true on pain of absurdity, to one who understands them; this is another logical error, begging the question , confused for real self-evidence; whereby a claim shows itself not just true but true on pain of patent absurdity if one tries to deny it . . ] that the practices of science provide the surest method of putting us in contact with physical reality, and that, in contrast, the demon-haunted world rests on a set of beliefs and behaviors that fail every reasonable test [[i.e. an assertion that tellingly reveals a hostile mindset, not a warranted claim] . . . .
It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes [[another major begging of the question . . . ] to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute [[i.e. here we see the fallacious, indoctrinated, ideological, closed mind . . . ], for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen. [Perhaps the second saddest thing is that some actually believe that these last three sentences that express hostility to God and then back it up with a loaded strawman caricature of theism and theists JUSTIFY what has gone on before. As a first correction, accurate history — as opposed to the commonly promoted rationalist myth of the longstanding war of religion against science — documents (cf. here, here and here) that the Judaeo-Christian worldview nurtured and gave crucial impetus to the rise of modern science through its view that God as creator made and sustains an orderly world. Similarly, for miracles — e.g. the resurrection of Jesus — to stand out as signs pointing beyond the ordinary course of the world, there must first be such an ordinary course, one plainly amenable to scientific study. The saddest thing is that many are now so blinded and hostile that, having been corrected, they will STILL think that this justifies the above. But, nothingcan excuse the imposition of a priori materialist censorship on science, which distorts its ability to seek the empirically warranted truth about our world.][[From: “Billions and Billions of Demons,” NYRB, January 9, 1997. Bold emphasis added. (NB: The key part of this quote comes after some fairly unfortunate remarks where Mr Lewontin gives the “typical” example — yes, we can spot a subtext — of an ill-informed woman who dismissed the Moon landings on the grounds that she could not pick up Dallas on her TV, much less the Moon. This is little more than a subtle appeal to the ill-tempered sneer at those who dissent from the evolutionary materialist “consensus,” that they are ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked. For telling counter-instance, Werner von Braun, the designer of the rocket that took NASA to the Moon, was an evangelical Christian and a Creationist.  Similarly, when Lewontin cites eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck as declaring that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything, drawing as bottom-line, the inference that [[t]o appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen,” this is a sadly sophomoric distortion. One that fails to understand that, on the Judaeo-Christian theistic view, for miracles to stand out as signs pointing beyond the ordinary, there must first be an ordinary consistently orderly world, one created by the God of order who “sustains all things by his powerful word.” Also, for us to be morally accountable to God — a major theme in theism, the consequences of our actions must be reasonably predictable, i.e. we must live in a consistent, predictably orderly cosmos, one that would be amenable to science. And, historically, it was specifically that theistic confidence in an orderly cosmos governed by a wise and orderly Creator that gave modern science much of its starting impetus from about 1200 to 1700. For instance that is why Newton (a biblical theist), in the General Scholium to his famous work Principia, confidently said “[[t]his most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being . . . It is allowed by all that the Supreme God exists necessarily; and by the same necessity he exists always, and every where. [[i.e. he accepts the cosmological argument to God] . . . We know him only by his most wise and excellent contrivances of things, and final cause [[i.e from his designs] . . . Blind metaphysical necessity, which is certainly the same always and every where, could produce no variety of things. [[i.e. necessity does not produce contingency].  All that diversity of natural things which we find suited to different times and places could arise from nothing but the ideas and will of a Being necessarily existing. [[That is, he implicitly rejects chance, Plato’s third alternative and explicitly infers to the Designer of the Cosmos.]” In such a context of order stamped in at creation and sustained through God’s power, for good reason, God may then act into the world in ways that go beyond the ordinary, i.e. miracles are possible but will inevitably be rare and in a context that points to such a higher purpose. For instance, the chief miracle claim of Christian thought, the resurrection of Jesus with 500+ witnesses is presented in the NT as decisive evidence for the truth of the gospel and authentication of God’s plan of redemption. So, since these contextual remarks have been repeatedly cited by objectors as though they prove the above cite is an out of context distortion that improperly makes Lewontin seem irrational in his claims,  they have to be mentioned, and addressed, as some seem to believe that such a disreputable “context” justifies the assertions and attitudes above!)]

Mr Lewontin and a great many other leading scientists and other influential people in our time clearly think that such evolutionary materialist scientism is the closest thing to the “obvious” truth about our world we have or can get. This has now reached to the point where some want to use adherence to this view as a criterion of being “scientific,” which to such minds is equivalent to “rational.”>>

______________

Well did Aristotle warn us in his The Rhetoric, Bk I Ch 2:

. . . persuasion may come through the hearers, when the speech stirs their emotions. Our judgements when we are pleased and friendly are not the same as when we are pained and hostile . . .

So revealing, then, is the Lewontin quote that it is no surprise that several months later, design thinker Philip Johnson, went on corrective record as follows:

For scientific materialists the materialism comes first; the science comes thereafter. [Emphasis original] We might more accurately term them “materialists employing science.” And if materialism is true, then some materialistic theory of evolution has to be true simply as a matter of logical deduction, regardless of the evidence. That theory will necessarily be at least roughly like neo-Darwinism, in that it will have to involve some combination of random changes and law-like processes capable of producing complicated organisms that (in Dawkins’ words) “give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.”
. . . .   The debate about creation and evolution is not deadlocked . . . Biblical literalism is not the issue. The issue is whether materialism and rationality are the same thing. Darwinism is based on an a priori commitment to materialism, not on a philosophically neutral assessment of the evidence. Separate the philosophy from the science, and the proud tower collapses. [Emphasis added.] [The Unraveling of Scientific Materialism, First Things, 77 (Nov. 1997), pp. 22 – 25.]

Let us hope the above will sufficiently set the record straight that we can now clear the atmosphere of the miasma of poisonous caricatures of theism and theists, and address the substantial matter, the recovery of an objective understanding of what science is and how it should work. For, nothing can justify such a priori censorship as Lewontin advocates — and many others also (including very important official bodies), e.g. the US National Academy of Science and the US National Science Teacher’s Association.

In that interest, I suggest that we would profit from reflecting on this proposed restoration of the more historically warranted, and epistemologically justifiable understanding of what science should seek to be:

science, at its best, is the unfettered — but ethically and intellectually responsible — progressive, observational evidence-led pursuit of the truth about our world (i.e. an accurate and reliable description and explanation of it), based on:

a: collecting, recording, indexing, collating and reporting accurate, reliable (and where feasible, repeatable) empirical — real-world, on the ground — observations and measurements,

b: inference to best current — thus, always provisionalabductive explanation of the observed facts,

c: thus producing hypotheses, laws, theories and models, using  logical-mathematical analysis, intuition and creative, rational imagination [[including Einstein’s favourite gedankenexperiment, i.e thought experiments],

d: continual empirical testing through further experiments, observations and measurement; and,

e: uncensored but mutually respectful discussion on the merits of fact, alternative assumptions and logic among the informed. (And, especially in wide-ranging areas that cut across traditional dividing lines between fields of study, or on controversial subjects, “the informed” is not to be confused with the eminent members of the guild of scholars and their publicists or popularisers who dominate a particular field at any given time.)

As a result, science enables us to ever more effectively (albeit provisionally) describe, explain, understand, predict and influence or control objects, phenomena and processes in our world.

Let us trust, then, that cooler and wiser heads will now prevail and in the years ahead, science can and will be rescued from ideological censorship and captivity to Lewontinian-Saganian a priori evolutionary materialism presented in the name of science, through so-called methodological naturalism.

_______________

CONCLUSION (after a day of intense exchanges):

It seems to me that CD captured the essential problem in the false accusation of quote-mining, as early as comment no 3:

Evolutionists in general absolutely hate it when we use the words of authority figures like Crick and Lewontin against them. So when they say “Stop quote mining” what they actually mean is “Stop quoting!”

Bot is very much mistaken when [in comment no 1, cf below] he claims that Kairosfocus was “concealing the proper context of the quote”. The substantial point – that Lewontin demands an a priori, completely exclusive commitment to materialism – is not altered in any way by the lines that were omitted. What the likes of Bot also need to realise about quoting is that, when quoting, you have to start and end somewhere.

Quoting is an exercise in capturing the essence of the substantial point being made: not reproducing the complete work.

After over 100 further comments, much of it on tangential themes, it is quite evident that this summary still stands. END

_______

F/N: Smoking gun, courtesy Expelled. (HT: News.)

Comments
LOL Doveton. I think you'll need to catch your breath and take another crack at it. I see nowhere in your comment where you actually showed fault with the observation of information. Whining outloud that the observations aren't fair to materialists who wish to ignore those observations is hardly sufficient. You have to show that the observations are incorrect. Can you do that?Upright BiPed
June 22, 2011
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Upright,
#1 Well, as it happens, Dr Liddle and I were just discussing an operational definition of “information” in connection to a simulation she intends to design in order to falsify ID. The latest iteration of that definition is as follows: Information is a representation of a discrete object/thing embedded in an arrangement of matter or energy, where the object/thing represented is entirely dissociated from the representation, but where the association of the two can be established by means of a protocol instantiated in the receiver of the information.
Ok. Then your comment at 176 is question begging. Basically your definition of information here is an object/thing created (by a designer) embedded in some matter (by a designer) for a recipient. Your comment at 176 is that the concept of a designer is useful for explaining the origin of this information. Round and round it goes. This is useful from a scientific perspective. In other words, can the explanation of "designer" be used for any practical purpose. The rest of your response is rather moot given the above.Doveton
June 22, 2011
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KF,
Doveton: Pardon a direct comment: if, after interacting with me and others, you walk away with the notion that theists are so credulous that we believe “anything,” you are so far out of reach that we cannot help you.
Once again, my belief (or notion) about theists is irrelevant to this discussion. I am merely addressing on Lewontin's notions.
Perhaps you have not carefully read the original post. Let’s put it simply: on theism, a miracle, stands out as a sign pointing beyond the ordinary course of the world, and it is also in the context of a world that on theism we are accountable stewards who would one day face judgement. On theism, for a miracle to stand out as a sign, and for there to be accountability, there is a requirement for an ordinary, non chaotic course of the world. One, backed up by the character of the Creator. That is the context in which theist, seeing key texts and working though the logic as described, were in historical reality the founders of modern science, precisely because of their worldview rooted confidence in its stable general order. That such an order is open to miracles, does not mean that it is not an order that can be studied and used to our advantage. As was pointed out. Please, try to understand where others are coming from instead of twisting them into convenient strawmen. GEM of TKI
This is well and good, but does not address my question about Lewontin nor the point he raised. So, once again, if you believe God can break the laws of the universe and enact a "miracle" of overriding someone's death or illness, what then prevents God from rearranging the order of the planets in the solar system or turning our blood green in any given instant? What specific problem do you have with Lewontin's claim?Doveton
June 22, 2011
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KF @182,
Doveton: Please read the clip in the original post, then look closer at the focus that science has on ascertaining “facts” — as just one instance.
Actually I did read it, but thank you for reiterating it.
I am very aware of the importance of empirical reliability of scientific findings, but I suspect you will find it rather hard to convince the world that science does not care about facts, truth and accuracy to reality.
Science is indeed interested in facts, accuracy and truth in the sense that it uses those components to build a case for theories and hypotheses. For example, science relies upon the "truth" that F=MA in order to model tides on Earth. That said, this is not the same thing as being an arbiter of truth.
The denigration or denial of this aspect of science, that it seeks to know the world, however prone we are to err in that pursuit, is one of the strongest signs that things are falling apart.
I do not denigrate or deny that science seeks to know the world. I just don't see this as equivalent to being an arbiter of truth.
I will say this, that now that the Climategate revelations are out, the discredit due to showing scientists pushing a party line rather than seeking to be accurate to reality, is telling. GEM of TKI
I have no idea what this has to do with the concept of science being (or not being) an arbiter of truth. Of course, since it appears that "Climategate" was merely a distortion of conservative news folks (such as Beck), I don't have much interest in it.Doveton
June 22, 2011
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Doveton,
Hmmm…a couple of points here: 1) What do you mean by “information”? 2) How do you know it exists? 3) How do you know it can’t be explained by any other means?
#1 Well, as it happens, Dr Liddle and I were just discussing an operational definition of “information” in connection to a simulation she intends to design in order to falsify ID. The latest iteration of that definition is as follows: Information is a representation of a discrete object/thing embedded in an arrangement of matter or energy, where the object/thing represented is entirely dissociated from the representation, but where the association of the two can be established by means of a protocol instantiated in the receiver of the information. #2 Is this a rhetorical question, or are you suggesting that information does not exist? Or, to be clearer, do you think information exists? #3 My personal satisfaction that it cannot come into existence by any other means stems from the entailments that are required for its existence. Each of these, and indeed information itself, has never been associated with anything but a living thing (never as a matter of the remaining inanimate world). For someone to effect my judgment would require evidence that, in fact, information can come into existence by some other means. Such evidence does not exist.
In other words, what is the actual reliable mechanistic model for this “information” that the explanation “designer” provides.
The current iteration of an operational definition for information was given in the previous answer.
So far (as MG’s and other folks’ discussions have indicated) I don’t see any actual demonstrations of utility in the ID explanation.
MG was a roadshow who had the intent to spit in Bill Dembski’s face. She missed him by a mile, but hit Karl Popper right in the eye. What do you want me to say? I personally trapped her in her obfuscation, as did many others. I was not impressed. Nor am I impressed that you find no utility in an un-refuted observation you don’t wish to utilize.
How do you know there is only one origin of information?
Well, I suppose we could just ignore that all living organisms on this planet have (with minor variations) the same information system, and simply stipulate that Life began 1,398,762 times. Perhaps parsimony is over-rated.
Ahh…but the question of origin of gravity isn’t what makes the study of the phenomenon of gravity science. Gravity can be modeled is a succinctly useful way
What makes the study of gravity science is using systematic observations and rationale. That same paradigm works for information science as well.
Does information as conceptualized in ID offer any similar predictive models that can be used in such succinctly practical applications?
I am certainly willing to concede that limited numbers of persons in information and computer theory may have difference of opinion (regarding information) with limited numbers of persons in ID, but let’s get real. You speak as if information theorists and computer scientists see the necessary symbols and protocols of information as having just three toes, while ID theorist demand they have five. ID proponents and information theorists and computer scientists have a working aparatus that is not generally in conflict, and they use it productively. A far as a predictive model, are you once again asking ID to predict the next one-time ‘onset of information’ event in universal history, or, are you just wishing terribly to have me hang my head and admit that ID has no predictive value – and you just aren’t yet satisfied in that regard? Let’s cut to the chase. There is the observation that information and its prerequisite entailments are only observed as a product of living things, there is the further observation that no one on the surface of the planet can provide a plausible mechanism for their rise by chance and necessity. In that regard, computer scientist, information theorist, and ID proponents share a great deal of common ground. So, what is it that you would like ID to predict with that observed reality?
If so, how is this concept of information useful…
Again, you speak as if ID proponents have a concept of information utterly foreign to other information sciences. It doesn’t.
…because appears that the concept of the origin of information isn’t.
The design argument at the level of information (semiotics) is an un-refuted observation. That an opponent of ID would attempt to brand that observation as non-useful is laughable. CHeers...Upright BiPed
June 21, 2011
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Doveton: Pardon a direct comment: if, after interacting with me and others, you walk away with the notion that theists are so credulous that we believe "anything," you are so far out of reach that we cannot help you. Perhaps you have not carefully read the original post. Let's put it simply: on theism, a miracle, stands out as a sign pointing beyond the ordinary course of the world, and it is also in the context of a world that on theism we are accountable stewards who would one day face judgement. On theism, for a miracle to stand out as a sign, and for there to be accountability, there is a requirement for an ordinary, non chaotic course of the world. One, backed up by the character of the Creator. That is the context in which theist, seeing key texts and working though the logic as described, were in historical reality the founders of modern science, precisely because of their worldview rooted confidence in its stable general order. That such an order is open to miracles, does not mean that it is not an order that can be studied and used to our advantage. As was pointed out. Please, try to understand where others are coming from instead of twisting them into convenient strawmen. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
June 21, 2011
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Doveton: Please read the clip in the original post, then look closer at the focus that science has on ascertaining "facts" -- as just one instance. I am very aware of the importance of empirical reliability of scientific findings, but I suspect you will find it rather hard to convince the world that science does not care about facts, truth and accuracy to reality. Inded, that science and scientists do not make claims to have discovered the credible facts about our world, and that they further claim to be objective in pursuit of those facts. Facts, of course are matters of being accurate to checkable reality. The denigration or denial of this aspect of science, that it seeks to know the world, however prone we are to err in that pursuit, is one of the strongest signs that things are falling apart. I will say this, that now that the Climategate revelations are out, the discredit due to showing scientists pushing a party line rather than seeking to be accurate to reality, is telling. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
June 21, 2011
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Kf @ #102, Missed this one from last week, KF. Sorry - was a bit busy...
He is indeed saying — by quoting with approval [notice, no distancing] — that “anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything.” That is as broad-brush a dismissal as you are going to get. This then goes on to indict, via strawman caricature: “To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen.”
Ok...let's go with your interpretation on this as opposed to my more context-driven understanding. My earlier questions still apply. Seriously - is Lewontin wrong here? What parameters govern what the supernatural - and in particular God - can and cannot do? If one does believe in a god who can intervene and perform miracles, what prevents that God from rearranging all the planets in our solar system tomorrow? If God can heal the sick cannot He not also change the speed of light to 7 millimeters per hour in an instant? Can He not arbitrarily suspend gravity? If not, why not? What problem specifically do you have with Lewontin's conclusion?Doveton
June 21, 2011
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...to the point “that’s not scientific” is tantamount to that it is unreasonable and unbelievable. And surely, you will know the expression “prove that to me scientifically . . . ” or more sophisticated renderings thereof.
Just a thought on this point, KF: I have heard these expressions a number of times and I've actually used them (or similar phrases) on occasion myself. However, such phrases and feelings do not (in general) stem from any belief in the truth of a scientific response, but rather stem from the integrity and credibility the institution has garnered from the utility its explanations have provided. Like it or not, KF, science has offered and continues to provide very useful explanations on how (and to some extent why) things work. It is for that reason it garners the respect and authority it does.Doveton
June 21, 2011
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If science sacrifices the quest for truth, it loses its integrity and credibility.
I understand that's your opinion, KF, but I'm afraid that isn't much of a rebuttal in the realm of actual science and research.
The attempt to deny that this attitude, assumption and even assertion exists, now that it has been called out and corrected, is itself a telling indication of what has gone wrong.
Oh, I have no doubts it exists in realms of philosophical debate, but such debates have very little impact on the actual practice of research, theoretics, application in the working scientific community. In fact, the philosophy, when broken down, is clearly in direct conflict with the very method of investigation; if science investigated and arbitrated what is "true", we'd still be living on a flat world at the center of the universe. Truth is far too absolute a concept for science; practical explanation and utility are the far greater ideals of the discipline. Thankfully actual scientists recognize that all understanding is provisional in relation to current evidence and capability.Doveton
June 21, 2011
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Doveton: If science sacrifices the quest for truth, it loses its integrity and credibility. And, if you will look at the original post you will see that -- as can be confirmed in many ways - there is a widespread concept that science is the sole or at least the main arbiter of truth and knowledge [justified, true belief]; to the point "that's not scientific" is tantamount to that it is unreasonable and unbelievable. And surely, you will know the expression "prove that to me scientifically . . . " or more sophisticated renderings thereof. It has been pointed out in the OP that this is a serious fallacy. The attempt to deny that this attitude, assumption and even assertion exists, now that it has been called out and corrected, is itself a telling indication of what has gone wrong. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
June 21, 2011
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“What effects can only be explained by invoking the concept of a “designer”…
The origin of Information
Hmmm...a couple of points here: 1) What do you mean by "information"? 2) How do you know it exists? 3) How do you know it can't be explained by any other means? In other words, what is the actual reliable mechanistic model for this "information" that the explanation "designer" provides. So far (as MG's and other folks' discussions have indicated) I don't see any actual demonstrations of utility in the ID explanation.
“…and in what way does such provide a model that can be utilized to make predictions about further effects?”
Given that there is only one origin of Information – regardless of the metaphysics one might wish to accord – there is no viable need to make predictions upon another origin of Information.
How do you know there is only one origin of information?
We don’t predict the next origin of Information, no more so than we predict the next origin of Gravity.
Ahh...but the question of origin of gravity isn't what makes the study of the phenomenon of gravity science. Gravity can be modeled is a succinctly useful way - useful for flying planes, designing all-season tires, developing road materials, modeling solar orbits, predicting the weather and tides, etc, etc, etc. Does information as conceptualized in ID offer any similar predictive models that can be used in such succinctly practical applications? If so, how is this concept of information useful, because appears that the concept of the origin of information isn't.Doveton
June 21, 2011
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"What effects can only be explained by invoking the concept of a “designer”... The origin of Information "...and in what way does such provide a model that can be utilized to make predictions about further effects?" Given that there is only one origin of Information - regardless of the metaphysics one might wish to accord - there is no viable need to make predictions upon another origin of Information. We don't predict the next origin of Information, no more so than we predict the next origin of Gravity.Upright BiPed
June 21, 2011
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No, Driver, the issue is not the supernatural. It’s materialism. It’s science as the only arbiter of truth. It’s how to get people to reject irrational explanations of the world. So that would include irrational materialist explanations. It’s about what is rational and what is not, and whether materialism provides a foundation for rationality at all. That’s the issue.
I'm not aware of any scientists who claim that science is an arbiter of truth. Certainly no scientists I know seek truth through their research or speak in terms of truths when describing the outcomes of their research. Real science is about providing useful explanations. That's it. Is Newtonian Mechanics "true"? Who knows...I don't and I don't care. It is useful however; it has practical utility for determining predicting the motion of objects in the universe. It works. That's all that's necessary. Even the Aether Theory had utility, though it was later discovered it was unnecessary. So science is not about truth - it's about usefulness. The question then becomes, how is ID useful?Doveton
June 21, 2011
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So that would include irrational materialist explanations. It would also include irrational ‘scientific’ explanations.
I disagree with the second part here. Irrational explanations are those that either ignore evidence for the sake of story or contradict evidence for the sake of security. Neither case is supported by actual science for very long. Astrology is a good example of this in that its adherents claim to rely upon material observation, but predictions based upon these observations show no greater accuracy than guesswork and emotional manipulation.Doveton
June 21, 2011
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Mung@ #147:
Science is about investigating effects. A causeless effect is logically incoherent. Therefore, as long as there is a discernable effect science is free to continue it’s investigations.
To refine this a bit with what Dr. Liddle noted, science investigates effects to come up with a model explanation of the underlying mechanics of a cause such that the explanation provides utility for further predicting aspects of the effect or associated effects. Given this, how does "designer" provide any sort of utility as an explanation for any effect? What effects can only be explained by invoking the concept of a "designer" and in what way does such provide a model that can be utilized to make predictions about further effects? I realize this gets into that "level of detail" that Dr. Dembski feels is not within the domain of ID (or so he says), but if that's the case, how can ID be considered science?Doveton
June 21, 2011
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Mung: Apparently, they collaborated fairly closely. Indeed part of the story is on a debate in the 60's where they were on one side together. And of course, when we run into a "we" and "us" passage, that's first person plural. GEM of TKI PS: The idea of science as the only begetter of truth is a revealing point, on the philosophical illiteracy of this generation of practitioners of what used to be called natural philosophy. (Back then, the established results were called "knowledge" which is in Latin -- the writings were in that then common language of scholarship -- the word we get Science from. I actually recall shaking my head over a book many years ago now by a leading physicist that openly disparaged philosophy . . . )kairosfocus
June 17, 2011
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p.s. I'm trying not to forget that Lewontin is doing a book review here. It's hard to say what of this is coming from him and what is coming from Sagan.Mung
June 17, 2011
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From the OP, the claim made by Lewontin is:
... to put a correct view of the universe into people’s heads we must first get an incorrect view out ... the problem is to get them to reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world, the demons that exist only in their imaginations, and to accept a social and intellectual apparatus, Science, as the only begetter of truth.
The goal is: To put a correct view of the universe into people’s heads. "...we must first get an incorrect view out..." "... the problem is to get them to reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world..." He wants to get rid of irrational explanations of the world. Does that include all irrational explanations or only "supernatural" explanations? He said irrational AND supernatural explanations. I assume he meant what he said. So that would include irrational materialist explanations. It would also include irrational 'scientific' explanations. And how is it that we are supposed to do this? By having them "accept a social and intellectual apparatus, Science, as the only begetter of truth." Capital S science, aka scientism. Enough of the verbal games. Two threads of missing the point is wearing thin. What Lewontin said is clear for all to see. THIS is what the debate is about. Anything else is a red herring. MathGrrl's charge of quote-mining is meant as a distraction. It has nothing to do with getting at the truth. It should be denounced for what it is. Now how, as a defender of Lewontin, would you propose to establish the epistemological claim that Science is the only begetter of truth? Please, be sure to use the vaunted 'scientific method' to do so. Or, come over to the dark side. We'll welcome you as soon as you have completed the required re-programming.Mung
June 17, 2011
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OK, but I don't understand the point you are making. Could you rephrase? Thanks.Elizabeth Liddle
June 17, 2011
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Elizabeth. See my post @163.Mung
June 17, 2011
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Mung @ 154: If science cannot distinguish the natural from the supernatural, in what sense is it "censoring" anything? This is the point that a few of us have been making throughout the thread. The Divine is not "censored" from science - quite the reverse - to ascribe an effect to the Divine is tantamount to saying: "we have come to the end of the causal chain and can go no further". And no scientist is going to do that, not because they refuse to let a Divine Foot in the door but because, literally they CAN not. Their only possible response in the face of an effect that refuses to yield a cause is to keep trying to figure it out. To insist that they stop (i.e. to insist that more effort is futile because they have reached the Divine), however, is censorship. Fortunately, not very powerful these days but it has been in the past. I think there is conflation here between "Design" and "Divine". Design is excluded from science. It's a perfectly good domain of study, and is found in lots of fields of science. The Divine, however is, not because scientists can't bear the thought of God, but because their methodology is incapable of detecting it except as a "gap" and there is no way to test whether a "gap" can be bridged or not except by trying to bridge it. To do so is not to deny God, but to figure out how the universe actually works, no matter whether it was God-created or not.Elizabeth Liddle
June 17, 2011
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The issue is whether materialism and rationality are the same thing.
Obviously Johnson traveled forward in time and stole my comments here at UD and incorporated them into his article.Mung
June 17, 2011
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Elizabeth, I am referring to your comment # 150. "However science IS equipped to find non-God explanations for phenomena." To me, this statement is much too general. There is part of reality that cannot be formalised as incompleteness results suggest (see Goedel & Taski theorems), which can be interpreted as saying that your assertion above is NOT ALWAYS true. So I can agree with you only to an extent. A remarkable example where naturalistic ("non-God" as you put it) explanations are insufficient is the science of origins. We do have observed phenomena that naturalism is incapable of adequately addressing. Multiverse argumentation is one of its awkward non-scientific attempts to come up with an explanation. Positivism of science is a matter of the past. The trouble is a lot of scientists today are still thinking in positivistic terms. The circularity of Darwinistic argumentation in the large (there is an unsound tendency to stretch the notion of Darwinism even to include prebiotic processes) has essentially been exposed by ID using a scientific approach.Eugene S
June 17, 2011
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Driver: Some of the most effective strawman arguments rely on assumed context for the reader, what "everybody 'knows'." Only, it ain't so . . . In this case, in 1985, TMLO came out as the first technical design theory work [warning: fat pdf], and by about 1989, Pandas and People -- willfully misrepresented in the Dover case by NCSE et al, and taken on board hook, line and sinker by Judge Jones -- popularised the ideas. Darwin on trial was in 1991/2, and Reason in the Balance, 1995. In 1996, Behe's Darwin's Black Box had created a considerable up-stir, and is in fact probably what is specifically alluded to by the reference to "all but a few" in the Lewontin quote. At the same time, across the 1980's there had been several media issues and court cases over Biblical Creationism in education. It was very convenient rhetorically -- as opposed to paying due care and attention to the duty of accuracy and fairness -- for a priori materialism advocates to act as though the two were one and the same, and to suggest or assert confidently to the public that the matter was about the "obviously improper" injection of "the supernatural" into science. (Which, per NCSE et al and as slavishly copied by Jones in the teeth of easily accessible corrective fact, was claimed to be inherently naturalistic for "centuries." False.) Subsequent to this time period, this irresponsible and willful misrepresentation has been hugely popularised. It is a fact that from the days of Thaxton et al in TMLO, design theory has been about a critical assessment of the empirical evidence without authoritative reference to or underlying context of any scriptural or religious tradition. Indeed, Dembski actually defined design theory as follows:
intelligent design begins with a seemingly innocuous question: Can objects, even if nothing is known about how they arose, exhibit features that reliably signal the action of an intelligent cause? . . . Proponents of intelligent design, known as design theorists, purport to study such signs formally, rigorously, and scientifically. Intelligent design may therefore be defined as the science that studies signs of intelligence. [BTW, it is sad but necessary to highlight what should be obvious: namely, that it is only common academic courtesy (cf. here, here, here, here, here and here!) to use the historically justified definition of a discipline that is generally accepted by its principal proponents.]
That is the point of Johnson's remarks in rebuttal to Lewontin, as are cited in the OP. Let me clip, FYI -- have you read the OP, much less the onward linked materials?
For scientific materialists the materialism comes first; the science comes thereafter. [Emphasis original] We might more accurately term them “materialists employing science.” And if materialism is true, then some materialistic theory of evolution has to be true simply as a matter of logical deduction, regardless of the evidence. That theory will necessarily be at least roughly like neo-Darwinism, in that it will have to involve some combination of random changes and law-like processes capable of producing complicated organisms that (in Dawkins’ words) “give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.” . . . . The debate about creation and evolution is not deadlocked . . . Biblical literalism is not the issue. The issue is whether materialism and rationality are the same thing. Darwinism is based on an a priori commitment to materialism, not on a philosophically neutral assessment of the evidence. Separate the philosophy from the science, and the proud tower collapses. [Emphasis added.] [The Unraveling of Scientific Materialism, First Things, 77 (Nov. 1997), pp. 22 – 25.]
In addition, the idea roots go back to Plato's The Laws, Bk X, as I have so often linked or cited: the contrast of causal mechanism tracing to necessity, chance and art or choice or intelligence, in light of their characteristic empirical traces. This is exactly what Newton echoes in his General Scholium to Principia, which in turn is probably the single most important work of science in the past 350 years, maybe of all time. This was not done in a corner, in short. Indeed, in 1970/71, Monod (a Nobel Prize holder) had published a book that riffed off Plato's trichotomy, "Chance and Necessity," which was a hugely influential bestseller. Lewontin et al knew or could and should easily have found out that design thought and biblical creationism are quite distinct in idea roots, and modes of thought. They chose instead to go down a historically unprecedented path, imposing a priori materialism on the very definition of science itself, corrupting the integrity and ultimately the credibility of science. They chose to take the rhetorically convenient tack of conflating design thought with biblical creationism. They decided to cast the issue in terms of a contrast between science which somehow "must" only explain by naturalistic causes -- i.e. is now declaratively in thralldom to a priori materialism, and the "supernatural." They knew or could and should easily have known that the relevant contrast is between material and intelligent causes [i.e. nature (= blind chance and/or necessity) vs ART-ificial causes], both of which are entirely amenable to empirical, objective investigation on characteristic signs. Indeed, such is routinely embedded in many facets of pure and applied scientific practice; I simply chose the comparative of accidental fires vs arson as this fits in well with the example of a match as a demonstration of how causal factors work. I notice, that you did not respond to the analysis of causal factors, but tried to pick what you thought was a convenient point to try for a rhetorical shoot-down. Failed. Now, you have stood up in a public forum, to advocate for evolutionary materialism and/or its fellow traveller positions. In that context, the same duties of care of accuracy and fairness are applicable to you. Especially, in a context where this thread is a response to a false turnabout accusation of distortion by quoting out of material context. I suggest you read the OP and especially CD's response at no 3 above [which I have promoted to the OP as a major part of the conclusion written after 24 hours to respond], then reflect on what you have said above, in the teeth of easily accessible corrective materials. Please, think again. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
June 17, 2011
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No, Driver, the issue is not the supernatural. It's materialism. It's science as the only arbiter of truth. It's how to get people to reject irrational explanations of the world. So that would include irrational materialist explanations. It's about what is rational and what is not, and whether materialism provides a foundation for rationality at all. That's the issue.Mung
June 16, 2011
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No, KF, not misrepresentation - there is no discussion of design thought by Lewontin in his quote. It's not the point that Lewontin is discussing, it's not the point I was discussing, and it's not the point that Elizabeth was discussing. It is a divine foot, not a design foot, that Lewontin says should not be allowed in the scientific door. To refute Lewontin, you don't need to make the methodological case for design in science, but one for the supernatural.Driver
June 16, 2011
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Driver: PREZACTLY. This is a classic instance of a loaded, strawman misrepresentation of design thought. (There is also a misrepresentation of theism and theists . . . ) GEM of TKIkairosfocus
June 16, 2011
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As fire departments and police departments know, intelligently designed fires leave characteristic traces reflecting combination of parts to a purpose, based on choice and implementation thereof.
Yet neither we nor Lewontin were talking about a design inference. The issue is the supernatural and science.Driver
June 16, 2011
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F/N 2: For completeness, on chance:
AmHD: chance (chns) n. 1. a. The unknown and unpredictable element in happenings that seems to have no assignable cause. b. A force assumed to cause events that cannot be foreseen or controlled; luck: Chance will determine the outcome. 2. The likelihood of something happening; possibility or probability. Often used in the plural: Chances are good that you will win. Is there any chance of rain? 3. An accidental or unpredictable event. 4. A favorable set of circumstances; an opportunity: a chance to escape. 5. A risk or hazard; a gamble: took a chance that the ice would hold me. 6. Games A raffle or lottery ticket.
Online free book [GNU]: http://www.math.dartmouth.edu/~prob/prob/prob.pdf (Observe discussion Ch 1)kairosfocus
June 16, 2011
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