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ID and Catholic theology

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Father Michal Heller, 72, a Polish priest-cosmologist and a onetime associate of Archbishop Karol Wojtyla, the future pope, was named March 12 as the winner of the Templeton Prize.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0801398.htm

In this recent interview came a critique of the intelligent design position as bad theology, akin to the Manichean heresy. Fr. Heller puts forth this rather strange argument as follows:

“They implicitly revive the old manicheistic error postulating the existence of two forces acting against each other: God and an inert matter; in this case, chance and intelligent design.”

Coming from a theologian, this is an astonishing summary of the Manichean heresy. Historically Manichæism is a form of dualism: that good and evil were equal and opposite forces, locked in an eternal struggle. In this distortion, the role of the all-powerful evil is replaced by chance? It is traditional Christian teaching that God forms (i.e. designs) creation. Does this make God the arch-rival of chanciness? It is difficult to see how the intelligent design perspective could possibly be contrary to Catholic teaching. For example, St. Thomas Aquinas speaks in his Summa of God explicitly as the great designer of the creation:

“… the “Spirit of God” Scripture usually means the Holy Ghost, Who is said to “move over the waters,” not, indeed, in bodily shape, but as the craftsman’s will may be said to move over the material to which he intends to give a form.”

The ID point of view is such a minimalist position it is amazing to see the charge of heresy– it simply does not have the philosophical meat necessary to begin to make this kind of theological accusation.

There are some points that Fr. Heller raises that are entirely consistent with an ID point of view:

“There is no opposition here. Within the all-comprising Mind of God what we call chance and random events is well composed into the symphony of creation.” But “God is also the God of chance events,” he said. “From what our point of view is, chance — from God’s point of view, is … his structuring of the universe.”

In this quote, he is basically saying the there is no such thing as fundamental chance, only apparent chance. The apparent noise is really a beautiful tapestry viewed from the wrong side. Of course if there were discernable structure, then we could … well … discern it (this is the whole point of ID). The problem here is that Fr. Heller does not have a self-consistent position that one can argue or agree with, as his next quote shows:

“As an example, Father Heller said, “birth is a chance event, but people ascribe that to God. People have much better theology than adherents of intelligent design. The chance event is just a part of God’s plan.”

Now if I were picking from a list of random events to use as my illustration of chance acting in the world, childbirth would not be one of them. Does he mean the timing of birth, or the act of conception, or the forming of the child? If anything this is an extremely well-choreographed event that has very little to do with chanciness of any flavor. Here he seems to be going back, and saying that chance is real (not just apparent) – but God intends to have it that way. Once again, the ID position can also be reconciled with the existence of fundamental chance, but not fundamental chance as the only thing that exists in the universe.

In this interview, Fr. Heller does not seem to have a sophisticated view of how randomness can work together with intelligence, he also does not seem to have read any books by design advocates – the arguments he makes are directed to nonexistent opponents. For a physicist/theologian that is giving an interview upon the reception of his Templeton award, the only physics/theology that is offered is internally confused, and based on caricatures of the ID argument. My feeling is that if he actually read and considered the ID arguments we might find a kindred spirit.

Comments
Just by the way, and since we're talking of titles, Lord Ickenham, isn't it against Christian theology to call yourself 'Father'? As in, Jesus told his followers not to call themselves Father in Matthew 23. Doesn't the fact that someone cannot follow simple instructions from his leader cast doubt on his qualifications to tell others what is bad theology? I continue to find it incomprehensible why theistic evolutionists (like Heller, but particularly Alister McGrath) continually rail against ID. Which part of ID do they not understand? They accept that God is the Creator (and therefore that there was purpose and design in his creatorial acts, howsoever he accomplished them), and they consider God to be intelligent. I suppose their point is that they consider ID unscientific - i.e. God's creatorial works are not discernable by scientific means. How they can say this as Christians who believe in classic statements like Psalm 19 or Romans 1 completely baffles me. The only conclusion I can draw is that they are quislings who prefer respectablity in the scientific world to suffering the reproach that comes with standing up to philosophical/methodological naturalism. Of course, some of them don't get the fact that methodological naturalism IS a theological/philosophical position. Maybe explaining that to them might be a start.andrew
April 3, 2008
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DLH, his problem is the same as mine. If the intelligence is divine, there is not way to separate it from nature since nature also has a divine cause. The ID program only makes sense if the intelligent cause is separate from nature, or, more precisely, at odds with nature as humanity is, so that it can be distiguished from natural causes.garygagliardi
April 3, 2008
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From what I understand, Heller confuses the effort to identify SOME intelligent causation with saying that all the rest (Law plus Chance) is NOT divine. He is mixing up a true identification of an intelligent cause as we understand it, versus a false negative of saying the rest is NOT a result of intelligence.DLH
April 3, 2008
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Tribune at 41 AND DLH at 42 (a twofer answer): I can distinguish between the intelligent acts of people and acts of the natural world because there are two, separate sources of information. In the case of identifing differences between divine action and the natural world, what is the "other" cause separate from God? This is the whole point of Heller's remarks. Is there is no other cause, what is the basis for our identifying a division?garygagliardi
April 3, 2008
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DLH at 40: We are agreeing exactly, but unfortunaely, you cannot see it. You write, "by consequence of what we know of law, chance, specification and the probabilistic resources in the known universe over all time." Isn't this the same as saying that we don't know the rules by which it could happen? When you say that something has happened by no known rules, you are not saying that we cannot discover those rules are you? Isn't this my point? What am I missing? As far as your response about my statement about the distinctions in ID between intelligent causes and divine causes, I understand why ID makes the argument and why the enemies of ID deny it. My point is simply, from the viewpoint of a scientist who is also a believer, those arguments don't really matter at all because I believe that the intelligent cause is divine, which opens up other posibilities, such as the idea that we might not be able to detect that intelligence.garygagliardi
April 3, 2008
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gary at 39 Thanks for the explanation. That makes much more sense. re
In terms of respecting empirical evidence, we CANNOT argue that you can prove intelligence unless you really want to claim that intelligence is not God and so, like a human agent, that intelligence must have left evidence that is separate from nature’s laws.
I do not follow your logic at all here. ID does not a priori assume nor attempt to distinguish between human, alien or divine intelligence. The effort is to provide a scientific theory that can detect intelligent causation. (The rest of implications and/or revelation is left to religion. Nor am I saying that religion has no "facts". Some, like Jews and Christians point to historical facts.) ID never assumes "must have", but rather assumes "might have" and tests empirical evidence for that.DLH
April 3, 2008
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Gary, what can you infer if you find something in the natural world that highly correlates with our acts?tribune7
April 3, 2008
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gary at 36 I agree on your distinction between (design) "principles" versus "laws".
When you say that no laws of nature can generate Complex Specified Information, isn’t that by definition?
No, by consequence of what we know of law, chance, specification and the probabilistic resources in the known universe over all time. That is different from the definition (or tautology) of "Not law plus chance". Gary at 30
ID have a lot emotionally invested in its importance, especially the importance of dividing “intelligence” from God.
I do not know of ID dividing "intelligence from God". Rather the opposite. Intelligence may be human, alien or extra natural, and we may not be able to, nor need to distinguish them. The key issue is providing SOME evidence for "intelligent causation" from "law" or "chance." (whether the latter are "the mind of God" or not.)DLH
April 3, 2008
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DLH at 37, No, when I say we cannot separate divine action from natural laws, I only assume that the universe has not will or power of its own as a separate cause. It does not assume that the divine is wholly unknowable but rather that it is not totally knowable. This distinction is important.garygagliardi
April 3, 2008
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Tribune at 35, I agreed with Bohr in my article when I said specifically that God could choose to leave evidence but the point is that, logically, there isn't the same separation between God's acts and the natural world as there is between our acts and the natural world. Without that separation in reality, we cannot say that we can discern his intent. I refer you to my arguments about the painting. The wall of the cave and the painting on the way can have two clearly different sources. It is not as easy at all to discern differences of intention in the stroke in the painting.garygagliardi
April 3, 2008
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gary at 32
if the intelligence is divine, there is no method of differentiation between his actins and the forces of the universe That appears to assume 1) divine intelligence IS the universe, not separate from it, and 2) that divine intelligence is wholly unknowable and not understandable by human intelligence. Both of these are unnecessary and contrary to the basic assumptions of ID.
DLH
April 3, 2008
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DLH at 34, Why do you accuse me of making a error in logic when I said specifically that "this sets up the claim." While I agree with your points of logic, are you saying that CLAIMS in this area never violate those rules? My point is that statements like this on the part of ID open the door to the assumption others make regarding undirected causes. If your opponents do not make these claims, then I am mistaken. Is that what you are saying? As far as your second point, I must be missing something important. When you say that no laws of nature can generate Complex Specified Information, isn't that by definition? Aren't we just dealing with a bit of tautology? Complex specified information, as I understand it, is information that seems to serve a very specific purpose that we cannot explain by known laws. Does this mean that its existence proves that no principles affecting the likelihood of its existence will ever be discovered?garygagliardi
April 3, 2008
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if the intelligence is divine, there is no method of differentiation between his actins and the forces of the universe in the same way that there is between our actions and the forces of the universe. Gary, that's an opinion. To quote Niels Bohr, who are you to tell God what to do? :-) But on a practical, mundane, empirical, scientific level, why is it impossible to apply tested methods used to detect design to living creatures, and if not impossible why is it wrong?tribune7
April 3, 2008
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garygagliardi at 30 Encourage rethinking your post relative to common logic.
But separating these three causes out is the source of the problem. What if the law, the chance, and the intelligence are all God?
ID delineates between the undirected causation (i.e. law and chance) and directed causation (i.e. choice) that is empirically detectable.” This argument has two holes. First, it sets up the claim that if causation cannot be proven to be intelligently directed that it is, in fact, undirected.
That is logically false. If causation is unproven, that says nothing about whether the event is directed or not. Only that the event does not fit the stringent criteria established to conclude a true positive for causation and not a false positive. This says nothing about a true or false negative on causation.
Second, it assumes that directed causation can be empirically detectable in some form other than what becomes known as scientific law.
ID does not address what "becomes known" but "what IS known" as scientific law. There are no known laws that generate Complex Specified Information (CSI).
Again, if we assume that the existence of scientific laws disproves intelligent causes, we are going down the wrong path.
Again, that is your strawman, with no relation to ID.DLH
April 3, 2008
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All we can detect is where the explanations that we know--the laws of science--stop and our ignorance begins. We can, however, certainly detect and prove the unlikeliness of these events coming about by blind, directionless chance. This does not mean that we have proven that there is no undiscovered law of science that can explain them or that the discovery of such a law would undermine the proof of an divine intelligent cause.garygagliardi
April 3, 2008
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Tribune, I am saying that, if the intelligence is divine, there is no method of differentiation between his actins and the forces of the universe in the same way that there is between our actions and the forces of the universe. The argument is about simply logic, not about fairness, badness, or any set of religious beliefs.garygagliardi
April 3, 2008
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garygagliardi-- The right direction for anti-meaningless-chance movement, rather than attempting to prove design, Gary, are you saying it is impossible to detect design or are you saying it is unfair/bad/heretical to apply the methods used to detect design to living creatures?tribune7
April 3, 2008
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I see a number of reactions to my earlier post that I would like to address, and I apologize for not answering them sooner. One thing I love about the ID community is the level of discourse, which is impressively high even when there is disagreement. As you know, that cannot be said of similar discussions elsewhere. First, StephenB thinks I make a mistake by disregarding the design inference, that, "Intelligence leaves clues." He uses the example of a cave painting to illustrate, "we conclude that natural laws interacting with chance events probably did not cause the event to happen." This is quite correct, as far as it goes, but in applying the analogy to divine intelligence, as believers do, let us fill in some important assumptions implicit in this statement. First, intelligence on our level leaves clues, but intelligence on God's level only leaves clues by choice. The real problem is in the second half of your statement, which assumes that "natural laws interacting with chance events" are somehow NOT the work of God's intelligence. StevenB says I am wrong to think that ID separates God from nature and to make his points says, "there are only three possible causes for any event, law, chance, and intelligent agency." But separating these three causes out is the source of the problem. What if the law, the chance, and the intelligence are all God? Then the separations exist merely in our limited perceptions. The law is what we know of the universe. What we ascribe to chance or to intelligence agency is what we don't know. The point (originally Heller's not mine) is that claiming that we can know where godless chance ends and divine intelligence begins is just another level of ignorance. My point is that both belong to the realm of what we do not understand. Can we prove that the atheists label of "chance" is wrong by proving that there are signs of intelligence at work? Not to them. History tells us that, as we fill in the gaps of our ignorance, we are only going to find more "laws." If people don't accept the laws of the universe, as finely tuned as they are, as proof of intelligence, what further proof can you offer? Do you think evidence about the nature of our ignorance will sway them when the evidence for what we know does not? Ideas matter. The reason that the Darwinist ideas are so destructive is that they seek to deny purpose and meaning to the universe. Since the laws of nature keep indicating that the universe makes sense and that we have a special role in the universe, the Darwinist's real battle ends up trying to maintain the veil of ignorance so that they can ascribe divine power to random, meaningless, chance. In history, others have tried to maintain ignorance to protect their belief in particular form of divine agency. Science as the process of uncovering nature’s laws can be be negatively impacted by either view. Science only works if we accept our ignorance for what it is: simple ignorance and not evidence of anything except our need to learn more. Finally, StephenB seems to think that when I describe the laws of science as the mind of God I "attempt to refute intelligent design by ignoring the science and appealing to theology." I am not. I am just saying that, for the believer, there is no difference between natural laws and God's will any more than there is a difference between chance and God. Stephen says, "What our unqualified experience tells us is that once law and chance has been eliminated, intelligent agency is the best explanation." This statement is as anti-science as Darwinian chance. Once you start arguing that the discovery of laws eliminates intelligence as a cause, you are going in the wrong direction. Discovering laws is NOT disproving intelligence. There is a distinction here between the acts of intelligence that we make in a universe outside of our control, and the acts of an intelligent God in a universe of his own creation and control. Yes, we can delineate between our intelligent acts and those of the natural processes of the universe because there are two separate sources of causation at work: ourseves and the universe. Does this mean that we can delineate between intelligent acts of God as separate from the processes of the universe that are totally within his control? If the processes of the universe are not his intelligent acts as well, what are they? The argument for ID is a little like saying that we can look at a painting and identify which brush strokes the artist was really thinking about when he made them and which he didn't put a lot of thought into. We accept that everything on the canvas was put there by the painter, don't we? If all the brush strokes arose from intelligence, we should talk about the ones we understand and the ones we do not, but our criticism says more about us than it does the painter. Our arrogance can pretend to know the mind of the painter, but aren't we just fooling ourselves? I realize that people that support ID have a lot emotionally invested in its importance, especially the importance of dividing "intelligence" from God. EricB says, "It would be a mistake (one Heller appears to make) to think ID is delineating between God and nature. ID delineates between the undirected causation (i.e. law and chance) and directed causation (i.e. choice) that is empirically detectable." This argument has two holes. First, it sets up the claim that if causation cannot be proven to be intelligently directed that it is, in fact, undirected. Second, it assumes that directed causation can be empirically detectable in some form other than what becomes known as scientific law. Again, if we assume that the existence of scientific laws disproves intelligent causes, we are going down the wrong path. As far as not understanding that ID argues only to proving intelligence, not to proving divine intelligence, religious critics of ID understand the point but we also understand its deeper implications. If the intelligent cause is, in fact divine, we must accept the possibility that such intelligence can remain hidden if it so chooses. We must accept that all divine actions can appear as natural law. This means that the absence of evidence of intelligence, in the exactly way that ID defines it, is not the evidence of absence of divine intelligence. You can only claim that intelligent design MUST leave evidence if you first accept that this intelligence is NOT divine and separate from natural law. If ID people really believe that the intelligent cause is NOT God, this whole program makes a lot more sense, which is just the opposite of what your atheistic opponents claim. However, once you start down the road that says intelligent cause can be proven, you accept that is can also be disproven in exactly that same manner. I think that atheists are foolish in claiming that they can disprove God for exactly the same reasons that ID people are foolish for claiming they can prove intelligence if that intelligence is, indeed, God. The good work that ID is doing is mathematical and logical. The best part of this work makes it clear that, according to the laws of nature, the universe we see is incredibly unlikely in terms of chance. In other words, ID disproves that Darwinian evolution through random variation and natural selection is a "law of nature." The next step is where ID gets in trouble. In terms of respecting empirical evidence, we CANNOT argue that you can prove intelligence unless you really want to claim that intelligence is not God and so, like a human agent, that intelligence must have left evidence that is separate from nature’s laws. The right direction for anti-meaningless-chance movement, rather than attempting to prove design, is uncovering more and more of nature’s laws. In other words, it is in doing science. This process in biology will lead exactly to where it has lead in physics and astronomy, where the “stable state” universe of the atheists fell to the Big Bang universe of incredibly precisely tuned and unlikely variables. In other words, the more science we learn, the more it leads to God. Of course, that is just my faith speaking.garygagliardi
April 3, 2008
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StevenB, this confusion about the meaning of basic terminology, about the meaning of words like "evolution", "Darwinism", "design" and "purpose", is at the root of our conflict. (Re: "Huh? What are we to make out of that? Life is designed, except that it isn’t? Evolution is directed, except that it isn’t? Life has purpose, except that it doesn’t?) Words are labels and mean what we want them to mean, (by definition and proper logic), and the confusion arises out of the lack of (logical) precision, when dealing with these intricate concepts casually and without proper care as far as what we each mean by the words we say. (And this applies to all conflicts in the world, especially to theological and religious conflicts.) With respect to Fr. Heller, what I find quite ironic, is that this new Templeton prize winner, (For Progress Towards Research or Discoveries about Spiritual Realities), by a foundation which is "a philanthropic catalyst for research on concepts and realities such as love, gratitude, forgiveness and creativity", (see the top www.templeton.org page), would immediately break the basic tenets of the prize he had just received, as he would rather unkindly, (and unwisely), attack his fellow Christians (and others) who are also struggling with the difficult scientific and philosophical realities of life and modern science. This Christian and especially Catholic Darwinism may turn out to be just a "Jesuitical sophistry" (literally), since the desire of TE's to reconcile Darwin with God has deeper Jesuitical roots via Teilhard de Chardin, which many well-educated and highly placed Jesuits, such as those in astronomy and the Vatican Observatory, cherish as some kind of ultimate reconciliation of truth in life and science. (I know a Jesuit who was against Darwinism and against Teilhard de Chardin's sophistries, and he was basically told to shut up by his superiors on those subjects.)rockyr
April 3, 2008
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What a cultured and literate group of people we have visiting and taking part in this website. When at it's best, Uncommon Descent is one of the most civil, intellectual and enjoyable websites on the internet.PannenbergOmega
April 3, 2008
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Hmm.. I seem to remember either Dr. Dembski or Ms. O'Leary liking Brideshead Revisited.PannenbergOmega
April 3, 2008
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Thomas English (23) and DLH (6)– well said. Captain Ryder or even the more fitting Lord Marchmain would have sufficed in this instance, but my larger purpose is more Ickenhamian in nature: The necessity of assuming a nom de plume in order to more effectively spread sweetness and light.Lord Ickenham
April 3, 2008
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Clarence It doesn't take long to explain the ID concept to a lay audience - some patterns found in nature and in living things are best explained as a result of design rather than chance. Intelligent Design theory is a mathematical, logical, scientific means of determining whether any given pattern exhibits characteristics of design or not. I would be really surprised if one of the ID scientists interviewed in the movie didn't offer something close to the above statement.DaveScot
April 3, 2008
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Something very lovely about Father Heller: his contention that what appears to us poor mortals to be mere chance may actually be part of providence. This can be interpreted to mean that the ways of God surpass the understanding of men, a profound and beautiful insight. A very ambitious writer might even attempt to contextualize it as a defense of free will (where is St Thomas when we need him?). Something not so lovely, however: accusing one’s fellow believers of “grave theological error” for thinking that physical existence was intelligently designed. No can know with certainly whether creation was accomplished through pure chance (from the human point of view) or TE or ID or by any other means. Note that all three points of view can be supported through science. So it seems better to this poor writer, on the whole, to stop passing judgment on our fellow believers over disputable matters and save our rhetorical thunder for the real blasphemers. The immediate goal should be the overthrow of materialism and its stranglehold on culture. This can be accomplished more effectively by being tolerant of differences among believers than by public squabbling over theology.allanius
April 3, 2008
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The problem with ID is that it has bought into the materialists’ basic assumption: that the material world has its rules and God has his rules and the two are somehow separated. I think the problem with critics of ID is that they don't understand it. ID is neutral on the existence of God. Completely. Absolutely.tribune7
April 3, 2008
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Well, Uncle Fred, I'd have been less surprised by Captain Charles Ryder.Thomas English
April 3, 2008
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My feeling is that if he actually read and considered the ID arguments we might find a kindred spirit. Fair comment I think!Timothy V Reeves
April 3, 2008
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DeepDesign (6), "Isn’t that partly what the movie Expelled is about? That the Darwinian elites will not allow it to be taught, researched or even discussed?" Trouble is that, if the reviews are anything to go by, the movie itself doesn't actually explain what the theory of ID is. And as nullasullus says at (3), he's confused about it too. So who will explain it? Personally I blame the Big Tent approach. It's trying to be all things to all people, and it's failing.Clarence
April 3, 2008
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THEY HAVENT READ ANYTHING! THEY DONT KNOW ANYTHING! They are just proclaiming their ego manicalism and love of proclamation and or bad pontification. Read NFL. Read TDI. Read something other than the freaking news paper or the drivel on TV. Then when you know something feel free to open up your beloved mouth. All this proves is that bad judgement and power go hand in hand.Frost122585
April 2, 2008
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PaV (7): "So, as his royal highness, the Lord of Ickenham has stated, I, too, suspect that Fr. Heller would be more conducive to ID once he investigates it." I hope that is so, but it may depend on whether his antipathy comes mainly from misunderstanding or from a theistic evolutionary (TE) desire to subordinate theology to a truce with scientific materialism. Whatever the reason, it does seem that many who have a strong attachment to the TE viewpoint find the idea of detectable design in nature offensive and objectionable. In such cases, it may not matter what the empirical evidence says, a quality they share with the committed materialists. One indication of this is how they both will try to defeat scientific observations related to inferring intelligent agency by using theological arguments. Above we see Heller doing this. Likewise, consider how quickly materialists try to defeat a design inference with theological arguments, such as regarding pain and suffering. In this regard, atheistic evolution and theistic evolution are twin sisters. For both of them, whatever the empirical evidence may say is trumped by a prior commitment to a theological position. Both can become instances of ideological prejudice.ericB
April 2, 2008
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