Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

ID and the Science of God: Part I

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In response to an earlier post of mine, DaveScot kindly pointed out this website’s definition of ID. The breadth of the definition invites scepticism: ID is defined as the science of design detection — how to recognize patterns arranged by an intelligent cause for a purpose. But is there really some single concept of ‘intelligence’ that informs designs that are generated by biological, human, and possibly even mechanical means? Why would anyone think such a thing in the first place? Yet, it is precisely this prospect that makes ID intellectually challenging – for both supporters and opponents.

It’s interesting that not everything is claimed to be intelligently designed. This keeps the phrase ‘intelligent design’ from simply collapsing into ‘design’ by implying a distinction between the intelligence and that on which it acts to produce design. So, then, what exactly is this ‘intelligence’ that stands apart from matter? Well, the most obvious answer historically is a deity who exists in at least a semi-transcendent state. But how can you get any scientific mileage from that?

Enter theodicy, which literally means (in Greek) ‘divine justice’. It is now a field much reduced from its late 17th century heyday. Theodicy exists today as a boutique topic in philosophy and theology, where it’s limited to asking how God could allow so much evil and suffering in the world. But originally the question was expressed much more broadly to encompass issues that are nowadays more naturally taken up by economics, engineering and systems science – and the areas of biology influenced by them: How does the deity optimise, given what it’s trying to achieve (i.e. ideas) and what it’s got to work with (i.e. matter)? This broader version moves into ID territory, a point that has not escaped the notice of theologians who nowadays talk about theodicy.

A good case in point is Christopher Southgate’s The Groaning of Creation, a comprehensive work written from a theistic evolutionary standpoint. Southgate is uneasy about concepts like ‘irreducible complexity’ for being a little too clear about how God operates in nature. The problem with such clarity, of course, is that the more we think we know the divine modus operandi, the more God’s allowance of suffering and evil looks deliberate, which seems to put divine action at odds with our moral scruples. One way out – which was the way taken by the original theodicists – is to say that to think like God is to see evil and suffering as serving a higher good, as the deity’s primary concern is with the large scale and the long term.

Now, a devout person might complain that this whole way of thinking about God is blasphemous, since it presumes that we can get into the mind of God – and once we do, we find a deity who is not especially loveable, since God seems quite willing to sacrifice his creatures for some higher design principle. Not surprisingly, religious thinkers complained about theodicy from day one. In the book I flagged in my last post, The Best of All Possible Worlds, Steven Nadler portrays the priest Antoine Arnauld as the critical foil of the two duelling theodicists, Nicole Malebranche and Gottfried von Leibiniz. Against them, Arnauld repeatedly pointed out that it’s blasphemous to suppose that God operates in what humans recognise as a ‘rational’ fashion. So how, then, could theodicy have acquired such significance among self-avowed Christians in the first place (Malebranche was also a priest) and, more interestingly, how could its mode of argumentation have such long-lasting secular effects, basically in any field concerned with optimisation?

The answer goes back to the question on everyone’s mind here: What constitutes evidence of design? We tend to presume that any evidence of design is, at best, indirect evidence for a designer. But this is not how the original theodicists thought about the matter. They thought we could have direct (albeit perhaps inconclusive) evidence of the designer, too. Why? Well, because the Bible says so. In particular, it says that we humans are created in the image and likeness of God. At the very least, this means that our own and God’s beings overlap in some sense. (For Christians, this is most vividly illustrated in the person of Jesus.) The interesting question, then, is to figure out how much of our own being is divine overlap and how much is simply the regrettable consequence of God’s having to work through material reality to embody the divine ideas ‘in’ – or, put more controversially, ‘as’ — us. Theodicy in its original full-blooded sense took this question as its starting point.

There was some enthusiasm for this way of thinking in the late 17th century. Here are four reasons:

(1) The sheer spread of literacy, connected both to the rise of the printing press and the Protestant Reformation (and those two events connected to each other, in terms of who operated the presses), meant that the Bible came to treated increasingly as instructions for living, as often happens today. So, the claim that we are created in the image and likeness of God was read as a mode of personal address: I am so created. This, of course, broke down the Catholic mode of Christian domination, whereby clerical authorities had modulated the biblical message for the situation at hand – e.g. by telling the faithful to treat certain aspects of the Bible as merely ‘symbolic’ or ‘metaphorical’. Theistic evolutionists routinely resort to this strategy today.

(2) On theological grounds, to deny that we are literally created in the image and likeness of God is itself to court heresy. It comes close to admitting an even worse offence, namely, anthropomorphism. In other words, if we presume that, even in sacred scripture, references to our relationship to God are mere projections, then why take the Bible seriously at all? 19th century secularisation was propelled by just this line of thought, but anti-theodicists like Arnauld who refused to venture into God’s mind could be read that way as well – scepticism masquerading as piety. (Kant also ran into this problem.) In contrast, theodicists appeared to read the Bible as the literal yet fallible word of God. There is scope within Christianity for this middle position because of known problems in crafting the Bible, whose human authorship is never denied (unlike, say, the Qur’an). One extreme result of this mentality was Thomas Jefferson’s attempt to edit the Gospels of all ‘superstitious’ elements, just as a Neo-Darwinist (say, UK geneticist Steve Jones) might re-write Origin of Species to reinstate Darwin’s fundamental principles in a firmer evidence base. To be sure, there is still plenty of room for blasphemy, but at least not for atheism!

(3) Within philosophy, theodicists, despite their disagreements, claimed legitimacy from Descartes, whose ‘cogito ergo sum’ proposed an example of human-divine overlap, namely, humanity’s repetition of how the deity establishes its own existence. After all, creation is necessary only because God originally exists apart from matter, and so needs to make its presence felt in the world through matter. (Isn’t that what the creation stories in Genesis are about?) So too with humans, so Descartes seemed to think. The products of our own re-enactment of divine thought patterns are still discussed in philosophy today as ‘a priori knowledge’. The open question is how much of our knowledge falls under this category, since whatever knowledge we acquire from the senses is clearly tied to our animal natures, which God does not share. But of course, the senses do not operate unadorned. Thus, by distinguishing the sensory and non-sensory aspects of our knowledge, we might infer the reliability of our access to the intelligent designer.

(4) There was also what we now call the ‘Scientific Revolution’, whose calling card was the fruitfulness of mechanical models for fathoming the natural world. A striking case in point was Galileo’s re-fashioning of a toy, the telescope, into an instrument of astronomical discovery. This contributed to the sense that our spontaneous displays of invention and ingenuity also reproduced the divine creative process: We make things that open up the world to understanding and control. This mode of thinking would start to kick in the scientific societies formed around the 18th century’s Industrial Revolution. One such influential society in the British Midlands, the ‘Lunar Society’, has been the subject of a recent popular book by Jenny Uglow.

Theodicy gets off the ground against these four background conditions once a specific mental faculty is proposed as triggering the spark of the divine in the human. This faculty was generally known as intellectual intuition – that is, the capacity to anticipate experience in a systematic and rational fashion. (Here’s a definition of intelligence worth defending.) We would now say the capacity to generate virtual realities that happen to correspond to physical reality, the sort of thing computer simulations do all the time, courtesy of their programmers. In the 17th century, people were especially impressed by the prospect of analytic (aka Cartesian) geometry capturing a rational world-order governed by universal laws of mechanical motion. So far, so good. But clearly something went wrong – what?

Tune in for the next instalment…

Comments
Upright BiPed says,
The first rule in a defense (of ID or anything else) is to be truthful about your position. This rule is sometimes stated as “Only the leader can defend”. It’s a prescription for rigorous honesty among human beings, based on the vast experience of human beings themselves.
The contemporary ID movement in America is fundamentally dishonest. It was founded by a law professor who knows much more about rhetoric than about science. His key rhetorical insight, hard on the heels of the U.S. Supreme Court decision forbidding references to creation in public-school science classes, was that creation of a material entity includes creation of its design, and that the word design could be used cunningly in place of the words create and creation. The rhetorical shenanigans are with us even on this blog, where getting ID proponents to acknowledge that their notion of intelligent design reduces to creation of complex specified information is like pulling virtual molars. My favorite example of what lengths a leader of the ID movement will go to in order to avoid honesty is the subtitle of No Free Lunch: Why Specified Complexity Cannot Be Purchased Without Intelligence. Having asked many times for an explanation of the purchased metaphor, and having never gotten one, I will state outright that the honest choice of word is created. It appears to me that Steve Fuller is attempting to help honest people elaborate an empirical science in which they proclaim, rather than hide under a bushel, their belief in God. And if you look into his writings, you will see that he opposes the exclusion of Christian thought from public institutions. I encourage all honest Christians who happen to read this, as I do my own family members who believe in ID, not to proceed by un-Christian subterfuge. The remedy to the political situation in America is not to pretend that you believe less than you do, but to oppose the artificial distinction of secular and religious views. We rightly do not teach students every minority view that comes along. If you want a science of God to have a place in American culture, then you must develop one. The claim that it presently exists is a lie. Stirring up controversy and then engaging in "teach the controversy" political activism is patently dishonest.Sal Gal
January 5, 2009
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Steve Fuller wrote: "It’s interesting that not everything is claimed to be intelligently designed." This statement, I believe, needs further clarification. For one thing, I think it's a mistake, with all due respect to Steve Fuller, to use the adverb form of "intelligent" here. I may be speaking out-of-turn here, (a vast understatement, I'm sure) but it occurs to me that the phrase "intelligent design" is not intended as a qualitative statement about the object that was (apparently) designed. Rather, it's a qualitative statement about the designer, about something that the designer possesses… intelligence. For this reason even something that appears very poorly designed indeed can still be a product of intelligent design because the designer possessed (and employed to some degree) intelligence. I own a British sportscar… a Triumph TR6. As much as I might love the car, I am intimately familiar with quite a few design flaws in the car. The car is indeed the product of intelligent design. But that doesn't mean that everything about the car was DESIGNED INTELLIGENTLY (or at least as intelligently as buyers might have liked). I actually believe that "everything" was designed by an intelligence and by that I mean that matter and energy and even the laws of physics are the product of an intelligent designer and all had a specific purpose. And I am convinced that the designer is the God of the Bible. But that doesn't mean that each and every object in the universe had to be designed. The complexity of a snowflake, for example, can readily be explained by natural processes and laws. In the direct sense, it was not designed. But in another sense it was designed in virtue of the fact that the laws and processes which produced it were designed. I like a painting analogy here because, as an illustrator, I can say with some authority that when painting I sometimes let natural forces do some of the work for me. I might create a wash upon which gravity and other natural laws act and this creates an effect that I intended in a non-specific way. I might even sprinkle some salt into the wash… the placement of each crystal of salt is not designed--the salt crystals land where physics dictates--but the effect and texture it creates on the board IS designed, or intended. Other times, however, I use specific brush strokes for specific reasons in specific places and the placement of those strokes can be CRITICAL. It appears to me that this designer acts in a similar way. Some things are designed in a specific, direct manner and other things are designed "indirectly." I hope this makes some sense to someone. He, he.TRoutMac
January 5, 2009
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Upright Biped, the problem with your position is that you write as if the evidence for ID simply manufactures itself
The evidence for gravity was observational. Those observations lead to testing and confirmation. So too is the evidence for design in Nature. How would Newton’s observations been served by establishing the meaning of gravity?
Is your position that we simply follow the evidence wherever it goes and merely hope that ID is vindicated?
Thank you for summing up the power of the evidence. This is called science. My admonishment to you is to not (in the name of ID) attempt to lead a position that you don’t have the evidence to defend.
if so, why do we need to adopt such a passive attitude
You may characterize it as passive if you wish, but I hardly think the work being done is passive. In any case, it’s certainly no weakness to allow the evidence to speak for itself, see Copernicus, Newton, Maxwell, and Einstein.
You say ID ‘leads the evidence’ but that is conditional on ID supporters providing an adequate account of the intelligence that is supposedly displayed in DNA, etc.
No argument here. Anything you can do to help is much appreciated, the one thing you might consider doing is remove the word “supposedly” from your sentence. This is (after all) a competition.
Otherwise, the Darwinists can always claim it’s a protracted lucky accident.
And when they do, we have to hold their feet to the fire for evidence that lucky accidents are so frequent in Nature that an organized DNA molecule can form from chance and necessity. When necessity only creates order, we question their evidence compared to the observed aperiodic nature of nucleic sequencing. And, when chance makes every digit in the sequence independent of any other digit in the sequence, then we question their evidence compared to the observed organization of nucleic sequencing. We STAND on the evidence because we LEAD it. And your answer to this is to take their feet off the fire and change the conversation to things we cannot possibly know?
In this context, the idea of an intelligent designer, some of whose properties we ourselves share by virtue of our own design, becomes important to invoke and develop.
This is the hook in your mouth talking again. You’ve been asked to be here to make your case. I, in turn, have objected to the content of your message, particularly regarding your suggestion to re-define ID and include issues we cannot know. I'll move along now...Upright BiPed
January 5, 2009
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dgosse @6, splendid! Steve, for my part, science, philosophy, and theology were never meant to be radically separated; each should illuminiate the other. If, as it turns out, one really wants the kinds of answers that you seek, many of them have already been worked out. Aquinas, for example, has already explained (successfully) that God's existence (similar to what we normally think of as God) can be proven through the use of unaided reason. He as also shown that our intelligence can be explained as that which participates in Divine Intelligence, just as our existence can be explained as that which participates in Divine being. God IS existence, but we HAVE it; God IS intelligence, but we have a small portion of it. We don't need a Bible to make the point. In my judgment, we should allow these points to complement our knowledge of science without becoming a part of our science, just as we should allow science to deepen our understanding the the philsophical/theological points without becoming a part of philosophy or theology. But, as we all know, political correctness will not permit it. In any case, I don't understand your objection to dgosse's concept of the painter and the painting, which is, of course, analogous to the creator and the creation. You seem to be saying that orthodox Christianity (a holistic religious answer) is at variance with ID (a specialized partial answer). I am simply not getting it. I don't understand why you are asking science to do provide philosophy's wisdom, while, at the same time, ignoring the wisdom that philosophy has already provided on its own.StephenB
January 5, 2009
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I have said this before on threads that have brought up the concept of evil. Just what is evil? The more advanced we get the more squeamish we seem to get and the more that is considered evil. We can all supply examples of what we consider evil but is what is evil in our sense, evil in God's sense and do we have any idea just what it means for something to be evil in God's sense. And if it is not evil in God's sense, can we say that God is allowing evil? Is it the fact that some insect poisons another insect and digests its internals, is it the fact that some organism possesses a particular lethal type of poison and uses this poison to kill its prey, is it the fact that a farm animal is kept in a tight enclosure prior to slaughter, is it the fact that a child gets sick and dies, is it the fact that someone is killed by a hurricane or accidentally falls and is killed, is it the fact that someone kills several people with a bomb, is it the fact that someone tortures someone and then kills them while imparting maximum pain, is it the fact that a group systematically rounds up and kills a group of people. Is it more evil for the last example when the people doing the killing are educated and the people are killed at the last second by a poison gas without them suspecting anything was amiss or would it make a difference if they were machine gunned down facing their executioners? Is it the magnitude of the examples I just gave that makes a difference. Is evil a phenomena that can be graded? What led to a re examination of the theodicy issue was the Lisbon earthquake and all its seemingly pointless misery and destruction. So suppose that something that seems to be evil in our sense, would it also be necessarily evil for God or as I said abov e, does this distinction have any meaning because nothing can be evil to God. Also if there is such a thing as a long range plan for our existence, what would constitute evil within the framework of such a plan? I have no certainty of what is right but suppose the long range plan is salvation. What then constitutes evil in terms of this goal? Or is it possible that none of the examples above are evil and only something that frustrates God's plan is evil? And what could frustrate God's plan? Before we tackle theodicy here and it has been discussed many times before, we need to assess just what is truly evil. I wish people luck in such a venture since it has occupied some of the brightest minds in history. To me as a Christian the only thing that would be evil would be something that prevents salvation for someone. And as a last aside, can a person that frustrates salvation for someone else be saved?jerry
January 5, 2009
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Dgosse, many thanks for your response, which I appreciate. But you give away the game when you compare God with a painter, which I happen to think is quite apposite but tells against your general position. Painting is all about struggling against a resistant medium, such that the ‘skill’ of painting has to do with getting the paints and canvas to do things that they would otherwise not do. And I agree that, if there is a God, this is probably how s/he operates – that is, there is always a struggle and the result may be never quite good enough, which is perhaps why a change of thought and/or being is always on the horizon.Steve Fuller
January 5, 2009
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Why "Intelligent" Design rather than simply design? For instance, Oxford biologist Richard Dawkins writes, "Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose." Likewise, Nobel laureate Francis Crick writes, "Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed, but rather evolved." http://www.designinference.com/documents/02.02.POISK_article.htm I have always considered the redundancy of "Intelligent Design" as a deliberate conterpoint to the oxymoronic "Un-Intelligent Un-Design" of evolutionary materialism. You would have to ask the framers of the phrase to clarify their actual intent (design?). Furthermore, their is the distinction between the design utilized by animals which I labeled "cunning" and the planned intentionality exibited by humans which I labeled "ratio." There is considerable difference between the two, the first may be considered "Un-Intelligent Design" and the second "Intelligent Design." How does the deity optimise, given what it’s trying to achieve (i.e. ideas) and what it’s got to work with (i.e. matter)? As I understand it, one of the fundamental premises of ID is that speculation about the nature and intent of the designer is specifically verboten due to the implicit religious entanglements. That said, the difficulty you have cited is not a particular problem for orthodox Christianity; the problem you cite is a only problem when the Platonic metaphysic is applied to the Creator God. (more later) Southgate is uneasy about concepts like ‘irreducible complexity’ for being a little too clear about how God operates in nature. The problem with such clarity, of course, is that the more we think we know the divine modus operandi, the more God’s allowance of suffering and evil looks deliberate, which seems to put divine action at odds with our moral scruples. There are two questions here, one is "irreducible complexity" and the other is the "question of evil". Irreducible Complexity is an effective wedge for opening minds, but it is flawed by its own implicit reductionism. It is a step up from the extreme reductionism and, as such, a step in the right direction, it still leaves one with the impression that the whole may be explained by the parts. I found Wiker and Witt's "A Meaningful World" a facinating journey from the opposite direction of how the parts depend upon the whole for function and meaning. "The Question of Evil" ...God’s allowance of suffering and evil looks deliberate... And I would have to answer, "Of course it is!" To understand why you would have to re-read Genesis:1-3 as historical theology and anthropology. It is the explanation of who God is (in orthodox Christian theology) and who man is (in orthodox Christian anthropology) and when you comprehend the natures of the main characters you will comprehend why "...God’s allowance of suffering and evil looks deliberate..." and the answer, quite simply is because it is deliberate. Let us imagine that, out of the goodness fo your heart, you decide to give a close friend a house that you own. You tell him, "George, you're a good friend whose fallen on hard times, and you need a place to live, I'll give you this house, and all I ask is that you take good care of it." You go down to land titles, sign the documents, and the house is his. The next thing you know he's moved in bunch of people, the lawn isn't mowed, windows are broken, garbage is strewn about the yard, etc. You may repent of your generosity, regret the impulse that caused you to give it to him, even confront him about his failure to maintain his end of the bargain, but it is still his house. In a sense, that is the position God is in. He made the world and everything in it, and then made people to look after it, and gave them title to it. They (we) didn't keep our end of the bargain. We have let the "house" fall into decay and frustration. Our Fall doesn't just affect us, it affects the entire "house." God is a "man of His word" so to speak (bad analogy) but He will not take by force what He has freely given. Therefore He must let the consequences of our and our ancestors actions play themselves out. We must freely give our selves and our house back to God before He can repair us and it. The 17th C. theodicies you cite are part of the budding rejection of the theology and anthropology of Genesis. Earlier theodicies (and there are many - Augustine's City of God is one) didn't concern themselves with the question of evil because they understood the source of evil. It is when we assume that death and suffering are built in, and that the story of Genesis is about man's upward Fall into moral consciousness, that evil becomes problematic. After all, creation is necessary only because God originally exists apart from matter, and so needs to make its presence felt in the world through matter. (Isn’t that what the creation stories in Genesis are about?) This takes us back to the confusion of Platonism and Christianity. Plato believed that matter was eternal and co-existed with the divine ideals. Since matter was "its own thing" independent of God. God (the demiurge) was restrained in his capacity to realize the ideals by the inherent limitation of matter. In Christian theology God precedes and creates matter according to his plan (design?) and so is not constrained in His capacity to create by any inherent limitations of matter. Hence, creation was "very good." It was not made "as good as I can" and it was not made out of any "need to make His presence felt," but as a single, volitional, artistic, creative act. First there was nothing, then there was something. Think of a painter or writer expressing his imagination in oil and ink. For some thoughts on Descartes may I suggest Wiker, "Ten Books That Screwed Up The World"?dgosse
January 5, 2009
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Upright Biped, the problem with your position is that you write as if the evidence for ID simply manufactures itself -- as if science were conducted in the sort of self-organizing fashion that you probably would deplore if we were talking about DNA. Is your position that we simply follow the evidence wherever it goes and merely hope that ID is vindicated? If so, why do we need to adopt such a passive attitude, especially given the known obstacles to the pursuit of ID-oriented research? You say ID ‘leads the evidence’ but that is conditional on ID supporters providing an adequate account of the intelligence that is supposedly displayed in DNA, etc. Otherwise, the Darwinists can always claim it’s a protracted lucky accident. In this context, the idea of an intelligent designer, some of whose properties we ourselves share by virtue of our own design, becomes important to invoke and develop.Steve Fuller
January 5, 2009
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Mr. Fuller, Establishment materialism uses a scientific edifice to say that belief in a spiritual existence is an outmoded idea for those who are weak-minded and unable to accept the truth of the evidence. This is a clear abuse of science. ID has rightfully self-limited its argument to nothing BUT the observable evidence - the material evidence. That is the source of its power within the debate. I react strongly to those say, as you have, "what good is ID if it doesn't say something about the Designer". The argument is the bait of our opposition. You may very well have something interesting to say, but redefining ID is a strategic mistake of the FIRST variety. Let me be more clear: The first rule in a defense (of ID or anything else) is to be truthful about your position. This rule is sometimes stated as “Only the leader can defend”. It’s a prescription for rigorous honesty among human beings, based on the vast experience of human beings themselves. If you do not lead then don’t defend, or the inverse, you can’t defend what you don’t lead. ID leads the evidence. Functional nucleic sequencing cannot happen by chance or necessity. In this, ID leads the evidence and can defend it. Materialism does not lead this evidence, and cannot defend against it, therefore all the associated crap that all ID proponents are well aware of comes into play - like, what does the design say about the designer, etc, etc. You seem to think that the defense of ID will profit by saying something it cannot immediately defend. I think you are completely mistaken, and hazardously so. If you have something interesting you’d like to say about the possibility of Design in nature, then by all means say it, but keep it off the main stage (by accepting its limits), and certainly don’t suggest that ID is lacking in its ability to defend the evidence when you yourself attempt to inject that which cannot be defended.Upright BiPed
January 5, 2009
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Somehow Plato arrived at the conclusion that man has an immortal soul. He's famous and quoted often. But the truth is, he had no way of knowing. To me these more recent philosophers who say that God needed to express himself this way or that way and apply all of their wisdom seem much the same. It's no less speculative than some theoretical pathway for the evolution of the eye.ScottAndrews
January 5, 2009
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Upright Biped, I'm glad you think 'volitional agency' is such a clear idea but I'm not sure why you're so upset that others might wish to probe exactly what that means and how it might work.Steve Fuller
January 5, 2009
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My first post - I enjoy the site. But I really don't get the scientific approach to God, in which various theologists attempt to study him beyond what he has revealed. Can anyone say that he 'needs' to express himself in a certain way? Can the clay examine the potter? Aren't his thoughts higher than ours, as the heavens are higher than the earth, and unsearchable? To me it's a bit like Plato concluding that man has an immportal soul. He's often quoted, because he's Plato, but how could he possibly know? I actually read the site for the scientific discussions, but seeing the topic I thought I'd throw $.02 in.ScottAndrews
January 5, 2009
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As Steve puts it, I too am wrestling with the question of "What constitutes evidence of design?" Let me be specific, and I apologize in advance if I'm getting the arguments wrong. Please help me out if I've made a mistake. For example, I saw elsewhere on here that the design inference is more complicated than just the notion that "things that looked designed probably are designed." Two concepts that drill down with more depth are Complex Specified Information (CSI) and irreducible complexity. I *think* I understand those concepts. But then there are other arguments that don't seem to fit with either CSI or irreducible complexity, and I'm struggling to understand how they're evidence for design. For example: one argument (put forth in The Privileged Planet and elsewhere) has to do with the notion that the Earth is balanced "on a razor's edge" so as to permit complex life -- it is in the galactic habitable zone, in the solar habitable zone, has an axial tilt permitting seasons, has a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere, a large moon, etc., etc. The "fine tuning of the Earth" is not CSI, because it does not correspond to a pre-existing pattern (right?). Nor is it "irreducibly complex," because that term applies only to biological systems. So I'm struggling to understand how, philosophically, the fine tuning of the Earth constitutes evidence for design without making the mistake that others were corrected for -- that all things that look designed are designed. Any help would be greatly appreciated!angstrom
January 5, 2009
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it is precisely this prospect that makes ID intellectually challenging
Materialist atheism is what makes Design challenging, Mr. Fuller.
So, then, what exactly is this ‘intelligence’ that stands apart from matter?
The organized sequencing of the nucleotides in the DNA molecule cannot come about by chance or mechanical necessity. From qualitative analysis of mechanisms, it requires volitional agency to create such organized sequencing. This is what stands apart from the matter that is animated by its existence.
It’s interesting that not everything is claimed to be intelligently designed.
Mr. Fuller, you have a hook in your mouth. Please spit it out.Upright BiPed
January 5, 2009
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The sideshow enters the main stage... Mr Fuller, if you've grown tired of arguing for ID on its merits, or if the intellectual competition has not been to your liking, then simply stop arguing for it.Upright BiPed
January 5, 2009
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