Religious Nones drawn to the occult (what did you expect?)

Brother Brian:

Are you referring to the worldview that has resulted in lower infant mortality, greater life expectancy, better quality of life into old age, lower violence, lower abortion rates, lower rates of teen pregnancy, reduced persecution of women, homosexuals, transgendered, etc, etc, etc?

None of which have anything to do with atheism.

My worldview supports all of those things.

Only in your very, very limited mind.

For some reason he thinks that my worldview is not warranted

And he is right. Atheism has nothing to do with what you are calling your worldview. ET

AaronS1978

I would not Insinuate those to be the result of secular humanism, ...

I wasn’t insinuating anything. I was just responding to KF’s opinion of my worldview, which he despises. My worldview supports all of those things. For some reason he thinks that my worldview is not warranted and, as far as I can tell, he is just pissed off that I can develop this worldview without relying on a God to dictate it to me. Or, maybe, he is just opposed to equal rights for women, homosexuals and transgendered. If the latter is the case, I can see why he might be so bitter. He is losing that battle. Brother Brian

I would not Insinuate those to be the result of secular humanism, many of the things mentioned above were achieved by very religious people like the father of the vaccine Edward Jenner , or human rights movements ran by very religious figures like a particular Dr. King AaronS1978

KF

BB, you have some unmet worldview warrant challenges to meet.

Are you referring to the worldview that has resulted in lower infant mortality, greater life expectancy, better quality of life into old age, lower violence, lower abortion rates, lower rates of teen pregnancy, reduced persecution of women, homosexuals, transgendered, etc, etc, etc? Brother Brian

BB, you have some unmet worldview warrant challenges to meet. KF kairosfocus

A Good Servant of Christ Jesus 1 Timothy 4:6-16  (ESV)

6 If you put these things before the brothers,[a] you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed. 7 Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness; 8 for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. 9 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance.10 For to this end we toil and strive,[b] because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. 11 Command and teach these things. 12 Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. 13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching. 14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you. 15 Practice these things, immerse yourself in them,[c] so that all may see your progress.16 Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Footnotes: 1 Timothy 4:6 Or brothers and sisters. In New Testament usage, depending on the context, the plural Greek word adelphoi (translated “brothers”) may refer either to brothers or to brothers and sisters 1 Timothy 4:10 Some manuscripts and suffer reproach 1 Timothy 4:15 Greek be in them   Reformation Study Bible provided by Ligonier Ministries

4:6–5:2 Having exposed the false teachers for what they are, Paul continues with a series of personal admonitions to Timothy regarding his ministry. 4:6 trained. The “good servant” must be continually nourished by true doctrine. 4:7 irreverent, silly myths. See note 1:4. train yourself for godliness. Throughout this section, Paul intertwines spiritual discipline with official duties. 4:9 See note 1:15. 4:10 Savior of all people. The general call to repentance and salvation is extended to all people (Matt. 11:28). See “Definite Redemption” at John 10:15. especially of those who believe. Salvation is God’s gift, in particular to those who trust in His provision in Christ (Matt. 22:14; Rom. 8:30). 4:12 Let no one despise you for your youth. The negative commands here and in v. 14 may indicate that Timothy had a tendency towards shyness or timidity. Furthermore, some in the church at Ephesus may not have accepted his authority (Introduction: Date and Occasion). Timothy was probably in his thirties, and therefore was younger than many of the Christians (and elders) at Ephesus. example . . . in purity. Timothy is to establish his authority, not by flaunting it but by setting an example of godly living (Titus 2:7). 4:13 Until I come. See 3:14, 15 and Introduction: Date and Occasion. 4:14 the gift. See note 1:18. 4:15 your progress. A reference to the advancement of Timothy’s spiritual life, his ministry, or perhaps both. Noteworthy is the fact that it is “progress,” not arrival. 4:16 on yourself and on the teaching. That Paul summarizes his instructions to Timothy in this manner is an indication of where the false teachers have gone astray, and, hence, where Christians in general can go astray. you will save. God alone grants salvation (v. 10; 1:1; 2:3), but He is pleased to use His people as instruments in bringing salvation to others. Salvation is not completed when one comes to faith. To be sure, faith brings justification and the assurance of salvation. But faith also begins the lifelong process of sanctification that continues until the Christian’s final glorification in heaven. yourself. Sanctification is a work of God which demands the cooperative activity of the Christian (Phil. 2:12).

NIV Study Bible Notes

4:6 brothers and sisters. See NIV text note. good teaching that you have followed. Even from early childhood (see 2Ti 3:15 and note). 4:7 myths. See 1:4 and note. train yourself to be godly. See 2:2 and note. Godliness requires self-discipline. 4:9 trustworthy saying. See note on 1:15. Here the expression probably refers back to the seemingly proverbial statement in v. 8. The words “labor and strive” in v. 10 may refer to the training mentioned in vv. 7b–8. 4:10 hope. See note on 1:1. Savior of all. Obviously this does not mean that God saves every person from eternal punishment, for such universalism would contradict the clear testimony of Scripture. God is, however, the Savior of all in that he offers salvation to all and saves all who come to him (all “who believe”). 4:12 because you are young. Cf. Jer 1:7 and note. Timothy was probably in his mid-30s or younger, and in that day such an influential position was not usually held by a man so young. For this reason his leadership may have been called into question. example. See Titus 2:7–8 and note. 4:13 Until I come. Paul’s journey had taken him from Ephesus to Macedonia (see map), but he hoped to rejoin Timothy soon at Ephesus (3:14). 4:14 through prophecy. See 1:18 and note. laid their hands on you. As an act of commissioning to service (see Ac 6:6; Heb 6:1–2and notes). 4:16 you will save . . . your hearers. God alone saves, but Christians can be God’s instruments to bring about the salvation of others.

NKJV MacArthur Study Bible

4:6 nourished…words of faith…good doctrine. Continual feeding on the truths of Scripture is essential to the spiritual health of all Christians (2 Tim. 3:16, 17), but especially of spiritual leaders like Timothy. Only by reading the Word, studying it, meditating on it, and mastering its contents can a pastor fulfill his mandate (2 Tim. 2:15). Timothy had been doing so since childhood (2 Tim. 3:15), and Paul urged him to continue (cf. v. 16; 2 Tim. 3:14). “Words of faith” is a general reference to Scripture, God’s revealed truth. “Good doctrine” indicates the theology Scripture teaches. 4:7 reject profane and old wives’ fables. In addition to being committed to God’s Word (see note on v. 6), believers must avoid all false teaching. Paul denounced such error as “profane” (worldly; the opposite of what is holy) “fables” (muthos, from which the Eng. word “myths” derives), fit only for “old wives” (a common epithet denoting something fit only for the uneducated and philosophically unsophisticated). See notes on 2 Tim. 2:14–18.exercise…toward godliness. “Godliness” (a proper attitude and response toward God; see note on 2:2) is the prerequisite from which all effective ministry flows. “Exercise” is an athletic term denoting the rigorous, self-sacrificing training an athlete undergoes. Spiritual self-discipline is the path to godly living (cf. 1 Cor. 9:24–27). 4:8 profits a little. Bodily exercise is limited both in extent and duration; it affects only the physical body during this earthly life. profitable for all things. In time and eternity. 4:9 faithful saying. See note on 1:15. 4:10 trust. Or “hope.” Believers are saved in hope and live and serve in light of that hope of eternal life (Titus 1:2; 3:7; see note on Rom. 5:2). Working to the point of exhaustion and suffering rejection and persecution are acceptable because believers understand they are doing God’s work—which is the work of salvation. That makes it worth all of the sacrifices (Phil. 1:12–18, 27–30; 2:17; Col. 1:24, 25; 2 Tim. 1:6–12; 2:3, 4, 9, 10; 4:5–8). theSavior of all men, especially of those who believe. Paul is obviously not teaching universalism, that all men will be saved in the spiritual and eternal sense, since the rest of Scripture clearly teaches that God will not save everyone. Most will reject Him and spend eternity in hell (Matt. 25:41, 46; Rev. 20:11–15). Yet, the Gr. word translated “especially” must mean that all men enjoy God’s salvation in some way like those who believe enjoy His salvation. The simple explanation is that God is the Savior of all men, only in a temporal sense, while of believers in an eternal sense. Paul’s point is that while God graciously delivers believers from sin’s condemnation and penalty because He was their substitute (2 Cor. 5:21), all men experience some earthly benefits from the goodness of God. Those benefits are: 1) common grace—a term that describes God’s goodness shown to all mankind universally (Ps. 145:9) in restraining sin (Rom. 2:15) and judgment (Rom. 2:3–6), maintaining order in society through government (Rom. 13:1–5), enabling man to appreciate beauty and goodness (Ps. 50:2), and showering him with temporal blessings (Matt. 5:45; Acts 14:15–17; 17:25); 2) compassion—the broken-hearted love of pity God shows to undeserving, unregenerate sinners (Ex. 34:6, 7; Ps. 86:5; Dan. 9:9; Matt. 23:37; Luke 19:41–44; cf. Is. 16:11–13; Jer. 48:35–37); 3) admonition to repent—God constantly warns sinners of their fate, demonstrating the heart of a compassionate Creator who has no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezek. 18:30–32; 33:11); 4) the gospel invitation—salvation in Christ is indiscriminately offered to all (Matt. 11:28, 29; 22:2–14; John 6:35–40; Rev. 22:17; cf. John 5:39, 40). God is, by nature, a saving God. That is, He finds no pleasure in the death of sinners. His saving character is revealed even in how He deals with those who will never believe, but only in those 4 temporal ways. See notes on 2:6. 4:12 Let no one despise your youth. Greek culture placed great value on age and experience. Since Timothy was in his thirties, still young by the standards of that culture, he would have to earn respect by being a godly example. Because he had been with Paul since a young teenager, Timothy had much experience to mature him, so that looking down on him because he was under 40 was inexcusable. be an example…in purity. Paul lists 5 areas (the better Gr. manuscripts omit “in spirit”) in which Timothy was to be an example to the church: “word” (speech; cf. Matt. 12:34–37; Eph. 4:25, 29, 31); “conduct” (righteous living; cf. Titus 2:10; 1 Pet. 1:15; 2:12; 3:16); “love” (self-sacrificial service for others; cf. John 15:13); “faith” (not belief, but faithfulness or commitment; cf. 1 Cor. 4:2); “purity” (especially sexual purity; cf. 3:2). Timothy’s exemplary life in those areas would offset the disadvantage of his youth. 4:13 Till I come. See note on 3:14. give attention…to doctrine.These things were to be Timothy’s constant practice; his way of life. “Reading” refers to the custom of public reading of Scripture in the church’s worship service, followed by the exposition of the passage that had been read (cf. Neh. 8:1–8; Luke 4:16–27). “Exhortation” challenges those who hear the Word to apply it in their daily lives. It may involve rebuke, warning, encouragement, or comfort. “Doctrine” (teaching) refers to systematic instruction from the Word of God (cf. 3:2; Titus 1:9). 4:14 the gift. That grace given to Timothy and to all believers at salvation which consisted of a God-designed, Spirit-empowered spiritual ability for the use of ministry (see notes on Rom. 12:4–8; 1 Cor. 12:4–12; 1 Pet. 4:10, 11). Timothy’s gift (cf. 2 Tim. 1:6) was leadership with special emphasis on preaching (2 Tim. 4:2), and teaching (vv. 6, 11, 13; 6:2). by prophecy. Timothy’s gift was identified by a revelation from God (see note on 1:18) and apostolic confirmation (2 Tim. 1:6), probably when he joined Paul on the apostle’s second missionary journey (Acts 16:1–3). laying on of the hands of the eldership. See note on 5:22. This public affirmation of Timothy’s call to the ministry likely took place at the same time as the prophecy (cf. 2 Tim. 1:6). His call to the ministry was thus confirmed subjectively (by means of his spiritual gift), objectively (through the prophecy made about him), and collectively (by the affirmation of apostles and the church, represented by the elders). 4:15 progress. The word was used in military terms of an advancing force and in general terms of advancement in learning, understanding, or knowledge. Paul exhorted Timothy to let his progress toward Christlikeness be evident to all. 4:16 to yourself and to the doctrine. The priorities of a godly leader are summed up in his personal holiness and public teaching. All of Paul’s exhortations in vv. 6–16 fit into one or the other of those two categories. you will save…yourself.Perseverance in believing the truth always accompanies genuine conversion (see note on Matt. 24:13; cf. John 8:31; Rom. 2:7; Phil. 2:12, 13; Col. 1:23). those who hear you. By careful attention to his own godly life and faithful preaching of the Word, Timothy would continue to be the human instrument God used to bring the gospel and to save some who heard him. Though salvation is God’s work, it is His pleasure to do it through human instruments.

PaoloV

Some Will Depart from the Faith 1 Timothy 4 (ESV)

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

NIV Study Bible Notes

4:1 The Spirit clearly says. As, e.g., in Mk 13:22; Ac 20:29–30; 2Th 2:3. Paul, however, is perhaps speaking here of a specific revelation made to him by the Spirit. later times. The time beginning with the first coming of the Messiah (see Jas 5:3 and note). That Paul is not referring only to the time immediately prior to Christ’s second coming is obvious from his assumption in v. 7that the false teachings were already present at the time of his writing. 4:3 This unbiblical asceticism arose out of the mistaken belief that the material world was evil—a central belief of the Gnostic heresy (see Introduction to 1 John: Gnosticism). 4:4 everything God created is good. See Ge 1:4, 10, 12, 18, 21, 25, 31 and note on 1:4; see also Titus 1:15 and note.

NKJV MacArthur Study Bible

4:1–5 After already noting the presence of false teachers at Ephesus (1:3–7, 18–20), and countering some of their erroneous teaching with the positive instruction of chaps. 2, 3, Paul deals directly with the false teachers themselves in this passage, focusing on their origin and content. 4:1 the Spirit expressly says. Paul repeats to Timothy the warning he had given many years earlier to the Ephesian elders (Acts 20:29, 30). The Holy Spirit through the Scriptures has repeatedly warned of the danger of apostasy (cf. Matt. 24:4–12; Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Thess. 2:3–12; Heb. 3:12; 5:11—6:8; 10:26–31; 2 Pet. 3:3; 1 John 2:18; Jude 18). in latter times. The period from the first coming of Christ until His return (Acts 2:16, 17; Heb. 1:1, 2; 9:26; 1 Pet. 1:20; 1 John 2:18). Apostasy will exist throughout that period, reaching a climax shortly before Christ returns (cf. Matt. 24:12). depart from the faith. Those who fall prey to the false teachers will abandon the Christian faith. The Gr. word for “depart” is the source of the Eng. word “apostatize,” and refers to someone moving away from an original position. These are professing or nominal Christians who associate with those who truly believe the gospel, but defect after believing lies and deception, thus revealing their true nature as unconverted. See notes on 1 John 2:19; Jude 24. deceiving spirits. Those demonic spirits, either directly or through false teachers, who have wandered away from the truth and lead others to do the same. The most defining word to describe the entire operation of Satan and his demons is “deception” (cf. John 8:44; 1 John 4:1–6). doctrines of demons. Not teaching about demons, but false teaching that originates from them. To sit under such teaching is to hear lies from the demonic realm (Eph. 6:12; James 3:15; 2 John 7–11). The influence of demons will reach its peak during the Tribulation (2 Thess. 2:9; Rev. 9:2–11; 16:14; 20:2, 3, 8, 10). Satan and demons constantly work the deceptions that corrupt and pervert God’s Word. 4:2 speaking lies in hypocrisy. Lit. “hypocritical lie-speakers.” These are the human false teachers who propagate demon doctrine (cf. 1 John 4:1). conscience. See note on 1:5. seared. A medical term referring to cauterization. False teachers can teach their hypocritical lies because their consciences have been desensitized (cf. Eph. 4:19), as if all the nerves that make them feel had been destroyed and turned into scar tissue by the burning of demonic deception. 4:3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods. A sample of the false teaching at Ephesus. Typically, it contained elements of truth, since Scripture commends both singleness (1 Cor. 7:25–35) and fasting (Matt. 6:16, 17; 9:14, 15). The deception came in making such human works a prerequisite for salvation—a distinguishing mark of all false religion. This ascetic teaching was probably influenced both by the Jewish sect known as the Essenes, and contemporary Greek thought (which viewed matter as evil and spirit as good). Paul addressed this asceticism in Col. 2:21–23 (see notes there). Neither celibacy nor any form of diet saves or sanctifies. 4:4 every creature of God is good. The false teachers’ asceticism contradicted Scripture, which teaches that since God created both marriage and food (Gen. 1:28–31; 2:18–24; 9:3), they are intrinsically good (Gen. 1:31) and to be enjoyed with gratitude by believers. Obviously food and marriage are essential for life and procreation. 4:5 sanctified. Set apart or dedicated to God for holy use. The means for so doing are thankful prayer and an understanding that the Word of God has set aside the temporary Mosaic dietary restrictions (Mark 7:19; Acts 10:9–15; Rom. 14:1–12; Col. 2:16, 17). Contrast the unbeliever whose inner corruption and evil motives corrupt every good thing (Titus 1:15).

Reformation Study Bible provided by Ligonier Ministries

4:1–5 Returning to his main theme again (1:3–20), Paul continues his attack on the false teachers and their teachings. 4:1 the Spirit expressly says. Presumably a specific revelation the Holy Spirit granted to someone, perhaps Paul himself (Acts 20:22–31; cf. 21:11). in later times. This is not a period just prior to the Second Coming of Christ. Rather, in keeping with the overall New Testament perspective, it is the era inaugurated by Christ’s First Advent and completed at His second (Acts 2:17; Heb. 1:2; 1 Pet. 1:20; 1 John 2:18; cf. 2 Tim. 3:1). some will . . . demons. A reference to the false teachers, who have arisen within the church. 4:3 forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods. The false teachers promote a rigorous lifestyle (cf. Col. 2:20–23). Some Gnostics argued that since the material world was evil, the spiritual individual should avoid it. that. The following argument focuses on foods. Paul has already affirmed marriage in 3:2, 12. 4:4 everything created by God is good. Contrary to the false teachers, the Christian affirms the essential goodness of God’s creation (Gen. 1).  

  PaoloV

Godlessness in the Last Days 2 Timothy 3:1-9  (ESV)

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions,7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9 But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

 MacArthur Study Bible

3:1 the last days. This phrase refers to this age, the time since the first coming of the Lord Jesus. See note on 1 Tim. 4:1.perilous times. “Perilous” is used to describe the savage nature of two demon-possessed men (Matt. 8:28). The word for “times” had to do with epochs, rather than clock or calendar time. Such savage, dangerous eras or epochs will increase in frequency and severity as the return of Christ approaches (v. 13). The church age is fraught with these dangerous movements accumulating strength as the end nears. Cf. Matt. 7:15; 24:11, 12, 24; 2 Pet. 2:1, 2. 3:2–4 This list of attributes characterizing the leaders of the dangerous seasons is a description of unbelievers similar to the Lord’s in Mark 7:21, 22. 3:5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. “Form” refers to outward shape or appearance. Like the unbelieving scribes and Pharisees, false teachers and their followers are concerned with mere external appearances (cf. Matt. 23:25; Titus 1:16). Their outward form of Christianity and virtue makes them all the more dangerous. 3:6 gullible women. Weak in virtue and the knowledge of the truth, and weighed down with emotional and spiritual guilt over their sins, these women were easy prey for the deceitful false teachers. See notes on 1 Tim. 2:13, 14; 5:11, 12. 3:7 the knowledge of the truth. First Timothy 2:4 uses this same phrase, equating it with being saved. Here Paul identified those women (v. 6) and men who were often jumping from one false teacher or cult to another without ever coming to an understanding of God’s saving truth in Jesus Christ. The present age, since the coming of Jesus Christ, has been loaded with perilous false teaching that can’t save, but does damn (cf. vv. 14, 16, 17; 1 Tim. 4:1). 3:9 folly…manifest. Sooner or later, it will be clear that these false teachers are lost fools, as it became clear in the case of Jannes and Jambres.

NIV Study Bible Notes

 3:1 last days. The Messianic era, the time beginning with Christ’s first coming (see 1Ti 4:1; Heb 1:1–2 and notes; 1Pe 1:20). That “the last days” in this passage does not refer only to the time just prior to Christ’s return is apparent from Paul’s command to Timothy to “have nothing to do” (v. 5) with the unbelieving and unfaithful people who characterize this time. 3:2–5 For similar lists of vices, see note on Ro 1:29–31. 3:2 lovers of money. See 1Ti 6:9–10, 17–18. 3:5 godliness. See 1Ti 2:2 and note. 3:6 gullible women. Unstable women who are guilt-ridden because of their sins, torn by lust and victims of various false teachers (“always learning,” v. 7, but never coming to a saving knowledge of Christ). 3:8 Jannes and Jambres. According to Jewish tradition, they were the Egyptian court magicians who opposed Moses (see Ex 7:11 and note).  

Reformation Study Bible provided by Ligonier Ministries

3:1–9 Paul continues on the theme of false teaching by turning to an attack on the false teachers themselves, noting their impact upon the church at Ephesus, but concluding with the affirmation that they will not succeed in the end. 3:1 the last days. The era inaugurated by Christ’s First Advent and completed by His second (1 Tim. 4:1 note). 3:5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. What makes the false teachers so dangerous is that they appear to be Christians (Matt. 7:15, 21–23). 3:6 weak women. Paul’s point is not that all women are this way, but that some have been especially vulnerable to deception. The false teachers at Ephesus had been especially successful in deceiving women (1 Tim. 2:14; 5:13–15). 3:8 Jannes and Jambres. In Jewish tradition, these names were given to two Egyptian magicians who opposed Moses before Pharaoh (Ex. 7; 8).

PaoloV

Religious Nones Drawn To The Occult

A more accurate phrase would be that all humans are drawn to the occur. After all, the only difference between occult and religion is the level of respectability. Brother Brian