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BREAKING: Is the 1934 Bayer anti-malarial, Chloroquine, a potential Covid-19 breakthrough treatment?

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And, why is that (which was announced yesterday by Mr Trump) not top- of- fold headline news everywhere?

Bayer, US, has announced, March 19:

>>Bayer today announced it is joining the U.S. Government’s fight against COVID-19 with a donation of 3 million tablets of the drug Resochin (chloroquine phosphate).

Resochin, a product discovered by Bayer in 1934 and indicated for prevention and treatment of malaria, also appears to have broad spectrum antiviral properties and effects on the body’s immune response. New data from initial preclinical and evolving clinical research conducted in China, while limited, shows potential for the use of Resochin in treating patients with COVID-19 infection.

Bayer in recent days has been in talks with the White House, HHS, CDC, and the FDA, offering any assistance we can provide with a focus on donating Resochin to help in the government’s efforts to combat the virus.

Currently not approved for use in the United States, Bayer is working with appropriate agencies on an Emergency Use Authorization for the drug’s use in the U.S.

Bayer thanks the Trump administration for moving quickly to enable this donation and will continue to work closely with the administration to support its efforts in the fight against COVID-19. >>

Here is Mr Trump’s announcement during what seems to be the now daily Covid-19 White House Covid-19 task force briefing:

No, ABC, it is not merely touting. In recent days, a leading researcher in France has posted a breaking news peer-reviewed report on a clinical test, which has shown remarkable success, which is all over the French language Youtube space, e.g. AP:

Yes, March 4, TWO WEEKS AGO.

The Paper’s Abstract:

>> Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID-19: results of an open- label non-randomized clinical trial

Abstract

Background

Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine have been found to be efficient on SARS-CoV-2, and reported to be efficient in Chinese COV-19 patients. We evaluate the role of hydroxychloroquine on respiratory viral loads. 

Patients and methods

French Confirmed COVID-19 patients were included in a single arm protocol from early March to March 16th to receive 600mg of hydroxychloroquine daily and their viral load in nasopharyngeal swabs was tested daily in a hospital setting. Depending on their clinical presentation, azithromycin was added to the treatment. Untreated patients from another center and cases refusing the protocol were included as negative controls. Presence and absence of virus at Day 6-post inclusion was considered the end point.

Results

Six patients were asymptomatic, 22 had upper respiratory tract infection symptoms and eight had lower respiratory tract infection symptoms. Twenty cases were treated in this study and showed a significant reduction of the viral carriage at D6-post inclusion compared to controls, and much lower average carrying duration than reported of untreated patients in the literature. Azithromycin added to hydroxychloroquine was significantly more efficient for virus elimination.

Conclusion

Despite its small sample size our survey shows that hydroxychloroquine treatment is significantly associated with viral load reduction/ disappearance in COVID-19 patients and its effect is reinforced by azithromycin.  >>

Going back 15 years, this should not be surprising, as SARS — a closely similar corona virus [some call Covid-19, SARS2], was reported in the virology literature as responsive to Chloroquine:

>>Virology Journal
2, Article number: 69 (2005)
Research Open Access Published: 22 August 2005

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread

Abstract
Background
Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is caused by a newly discovered coronavirus (SARS-CoV). No effective prophylactic or post-exposure therapy is currently available.
Results
We report, however, that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells. These inhibitory effects are observed when the cells are treated with the drug either before or after exposure to the virus, suggesting both prophylactic and therapeutic advantage. In addition to the well-known functions of chloroquine such as elevations of endosomal pH, the drug appears to interfere with terminal glycosylation of the cellular receptor, angiotensin-converting enzyme 2. This may negatively influence the virus-receptor binding and abrogate the infection, with further ramifications by the elevation of vesicular pH, resulting in the inhibition of infection and spread of SARS CoV at clinically admissible concentrations.
Conclusion
Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture. Favorable inhibition of virus spread was observed when the cells were either treated with chloroquine prior to or after SARS CoV infection. In addition, the indirect immunofluorescence assay described herein represents a simple and rapid method for screening SARS-CoV antiviral compounds. >>

In short, there has been reason to look seriously at Chloroquine, for fifteen years. That’s why John Delingpole has a point, and a right to ask a pretty pointed question:

>>It ought to be no surprise that chloroquine is effective against both SARS and COVID-19. After all, they are both coronaviruses and COVID-19 has often been described in medical and research sources as SARS-2.

Chloroquine works by enabling the body’s cells better to absorb zinc, which is key in preventing viral RNA transcription – and disrupting the often fatal cytokine storm.

As at least one person has noticed, the implications of this are enormous. If the medical establishment – including CDC – has been aware of the efficacy of chloroquine in treating coronavirus for at least 14 years, why has it not been mass produced and made available sooner?>>

So, should we be focussing significant attention on Chloroquine? Should we be asking pointed questions on how our polarised media may distort our consideration of crucial issues? END

U/D: There is a further report, giving a summary, vid:

https://youtu.be/Oy4AJP8nAPg

Money shot clip of remarks by US Rep Mark Green, a former US Army Flight Surgeon:

The old reliable Malaria drug chloroquine, the newer version hydroxychloroquine has shown really good, three studies, one in Australia, one in China and now one in France mixed with azithromycin, just the old Z-Pac that we take for bronchitis, has had 100%.  It cleared the virus, in some cases in three days,  that cocktail in every one of the patients in that study . . . It’s very promising, 100% of the virus gone in six days!

Let’s see if this holds up. If so, a breakthrough.

U/D, Mar 22: US vs other per capita Covid-19 death rates (HT, PowerLine):

Clipping:

Our friend Brian Sullivan has updated the international mortality table that I posted a few days ago, through yesterday. It shows deaths per million of population in 12 Western European countries, South Korea and the U.S. The blue bar shows the per capita death rate (per million) as of March 16, the orange bar as of March 20 . . . . Italy has the highest mortality rate by far, at 67 per million. It is too early to gauge the ultimate course of the epidemic, but in crude terms it looks as though Italy is heading for a death rate of something like 100 per million. It could easily go higher than that . . . . let’s assume the U.S. ultimately sees a mortality rate of 100 per million. That would be 143 times the current U.S. rate, not outside the realm of possibility. Do the math: if we have around 330 million people, and 100 die per million, that equals 33,000, which would be equivalent to the deaths from an average seasonal flu season. Maybe it’s worse than that; maybe by the time it runs its course, the death toll from COVID-19 rises to 200 per million, 286 times the current rate. That would still be less than the death toll from flu in the U.S. just two years ago.

That gives us some perspective that should help us to turn from over-wrought, deeply polarised rhetoric and political posturing. Then, let us refocus the key point here, there are hopeful potential treatments.

U/D Mar 23: From European CDC, trackers on rate of growth of cases to March 20, in days since hitting 100 cases:

Notice, how China is an outlier on the high side, and Singapore on the low side. Both Canada and the US are in the general European band, Canada happens to lag the US as things got out of containment there later it seems.

U/D Mar 24: As there was a debate overnight on “bell” curve impulses, let us look at the impulse-cumulative effect curve for “serious” cases of Covid-19 for South Korea, which seems to be among the best for statistical records:

We here see a lin-lin plot [cyan] of the cumulative cases, showing a sigmoid with of course statistical noise. Superposed, to a different scale, is number of fresh cases, shown as a bar chart. The pattern is clear, and is as expected. Notice, the jump in slope at the 909 peak, topping off the concave up part, then the emergence onward of a concave down pattern. The worst day, ironically, marked the point of inflexion where the cumulative case curve began to flatten out.

Next, with that in mind, let us look at the general pattern, using log-lin plots that allow read-off of growth rates etc as we explored yesterday:

The general sigmoid pattern still appears, obviously, but in a different format. Here, we see that the general pattern once initial lodgement achieves breakout is an early, quasi-exponential growth. In effect, we face an invasion and the first cases form bridgeheads that are prone to breakout, posing a challenge to stabilise by imposing a saturation before the natural one of infecting enough for herd immunity to stop further spread.

Stabilisation is obviously a major challenge.

Notice, too, the “main stream” at doubling every 2 – 3 days that was discussed yesterday. It is notable that the low-rate outliers are asian countries with experience of earlier dangerous epidemics or at least outbreaks, within the past 20 years. That suggests, institutional learning that we may find it advisable to tap. And, it suggests that the policy consensus for Europe and North America is significantly less effective.

Finally, as a reminder, here are impulse-bells for China and South Korea, overlapped in time:

Comments
The only thing the Trump Administration should be doing is having the Attorney General send a cease and desist order to every governor who has shut down business. By shutting down businesses, it has a negative impact on interstate commerce. No state, for any reason, can do anything that excessively burdens interstate commerce.BobRyan
March 23, 2020
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For the Stafford Act to be used, a state must be in a state of emergency. No state can claim a state of emergency based on what will be, but what it. A state must show the situation is beyond what the state can handle. Ohio, for example, has 77% occupancy of beds in hospitals and the state has not reached the threshold to qualify as a true state of emergency. Most states have not reached that point, which means most states do not qualify under the Stafford Act. Any state receiving funds that do not qualify is an impeachable offense against the president. The House controls the money, which means the House must approve the use of the money in most circumstances. The House should move to immediately impeach President Trump the moment he uses the Stafford Act for any state that does not qualify under the Act.BobRyan
March 23, 2020
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KF agreed I believe she committed career suicide to snub Trump And sadly you are right I thought the same thing till this will definitely divide the country especially if she tries to say that she blocked it because there weren’t any rights for pro choice in there Currently having people being forced to not work and then not having any form of stimulus because of the government forcing everybody not to work is possibly one of the worst things I’ve ever seen No matter what her reasoning is this was a very bad decision on her part because diseases don’t care about politics and fear caused by diseases can bring out the worst in peopleAaronS1978
March 22, 2020
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BA77, yes, it looks like some progress is ongoing, KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2020
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AS78, looks like the low grade civil war proceeds. Sadly. KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2020
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EG, in fact not even categories such as infected with covid-19 or died of it are consistently measured across countries. We have crude statistics and refined numbers will be for academics of the future. That said, the cumulative deaths per capita for the US, to date, is low compared to other leading countries. The further point is, that it is the overwhelming of the health care system that pushes death rates up. With an increasingly credible cluster of potential standard treatments coming online, I am inclined to the view that we are not going to see a runaway pandemic infecting 20 - 70+ percent of the world population. That is why the news on potential standard treatments is a strategic focal point. KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2020
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Need to all those that said Trump blocked aid check this golden nugget out https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-democrats-block-coronavirus-bill-that-provides-lifeline-to-economy-families?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiroAaronS1978
March 22, 2020
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KF
EG, I gave the info as it came in, I am not source. KF
I realize that. My point is just that it is almost important to draw any significant conclusions from it because of the way it is presented. If it was normalized from the start of infections in each country, it could be used to draw potentially valuable conclusions. As the date of the first infection in each country would be almost impossible to determine, the date of the first confirmed death in each country is a good second best. Sadly, this sort of analysis will do little to impact the current pandemic, but it could provide valuable information for the next one.Ed George
March 22, 2020
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@86 Kairosfocus:
TF, those who impose a priori evolutionary materialism believe that somehow through natural selection we were programmed with brains capable of mathematics.
Which is non-sense. And yes, evolutionary materialism is an imposition.
They fail to demonstrate observed causal adequacy to create required functionally specific complex organisation and/or associated information [FSCO/I henceforward] but if there is only matter and energy in reality, then that programming by blind chance and/or mechanical necessity MUST have happened.
Yes. A MUST that needs a logical explanation that never arrives.
That of course is circular but institutional dominance allows getting away with it.
Yes. Poor circular reasoning that explains nothing. Materialism is über-dogmatic.
Likewise, that this system undermines credibility of mind will be dismissed.
Yes, conveniently dismissed. Materialism leads to absurdity because it does not conform to reality.
As you can see, those beyond the pale who ask questions will normally be dismissed on some handy excuse.
Yes. The darwinian jihadists ignore, ridicule and bully. Look at what happened to Thomas Nagel (he is not a theist, but dared to attack darwinian evolution).
Only institutional and even civilisational collapse will force rethinking, as Athens showed.
Yes. Sooner or later it will have to happen.Truthfreedom
March 22, 2020
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EG, I gave the info as it came in, I am not source. KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2020
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Earth to Jim, If you were critical then you wouldn't be an evolutionist. If you were critical you wouldn't post your easily refuted trope.ET
March 22, 2020
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NY State to Begin Testing Malaria Drug in COVID-19 Battle By Margaret Besheer - March 21, 2020 NEW YORK - New York’s governor said Saturday that the state would conduct trials immediately on a malaria drug combined with an antibiotic that has showed promise in a French study in treating COVID-19, which is caused by the coronavirus. “There is a theory the drug treatment could be helpful,” Governor Andrew Cuomo told reporters Saturday during a news conference. He said there were people in serious condition and that the state’s health officials were comfortable trying the treatment on those patients. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration was sending New York 10,000 doses of the drugs, known as hydroxychloroquine (a malaria drug) and Zithromax (an antibiotic). “As soon as we get those doses, we will work with hospitals, doctors and families on using those drugs and seeing where we get,” Cuomo said.,,, https://www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/ny-state-begin-testing-malaria-drug-covid-19-battle
bornagain77
March 22, 2020
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KF@80, as interesting as this is, you are comparing all countries at two points in time. Italy an Spain saw their first deaths a few weeks before the US did. A better indication would be to track these numbers normalized for the date of the first death. In this way you could possibly determine whether the differences are due to different age demographics, different population densities, different actions taken, etc.Ed George
March 22, 2020
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JT, pardon but the issue is not being critical [or, critically aware even] but the deep polarisation of our civilisation that is reflecting in what is now low grade civil war in the US; also, it is echoed in a very condescending and dismissive or demonising attitude to the US [and UK] hinterland "peasants revolt" by ballot box. Messrs Trump, Johnson et al are faces, not the driving force; undermine them and others will rise or worse we will see a faceless mass movement of fatal disaffection that will become just that, fatal. The case of Syria, Palestine and Egypt, post the 628 mutual exhaustion of the Byzantine Empire and the Persians, is a classic with consequences to today. It should be clear, too, that I have a concern regarding the pandemic AND the danger of needlessly triggering global recession which can be damaging and even deadly through displaced deaths. China's economy dived hard, in part pulling oil with it, there is now an economic contagion secondary to the global epidemic of tickling the dragon's tail with the world economy. We need very prudent, well balanced action to stay on the tightrope. KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2020
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I’m critical, so I have to give credit where credit is due, I looked back on all of the posts and comments related to coronavirus over the last month on this site, and while several people were downplaying the seriousness of it, saying the flu is much worse, etc., giving the Fox News/Trump line, Kairosfocus was actually taking the virus seriously by late February. So kudos to him.Jim Thibodeau
March 22, 2020
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JAD, yup, a serious point, on borrowing someone else's antibodies. Apparently, that worked for 1918 too, or was at least tried. The timeline to a vaccine may be slow, too, not good. However, the news on drugs is worth watching and and monitoring. KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2020
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F/N: Yet more https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/02/14/wuhan-coronavirus-wuwt-update/ Note on spreading:
The bad news is that Wuhan IS transmissible during some later part of the symptomless incubation period. The definitive clinical proof (there was comment debate about the reliability of previous post evidence from Japan and Germany) is an age 50’s UK male who attended an about 100 person sales conference in Singapore 1/20-1/22 2020. A single individual from Wuhan also attended this conference and was–per Singapore Wuhan containment policies– symptomless on arrival (no fever, no cough). That either symptomless or very early symptomatic individual transmitted Wuhan to the UK citizen in Singapore. The UK individual then flew to France for a 4-day family ski vacation 1/24-1/28 at Le Contamines-Montjoie. During the 4-day vacation the UK male remained symptomless (entire incubation time Singapore plus France at most 8 days) but transmitted Wuhan to 11 other individuals, 5 later diagnosed in UK (family and friends), 5 later diagnosed in France, and 1 later diagnosed in Spain. Clearly this case is NOT family close proximity contact transmission. This case may be a “super spreader” outlier, BUT it means a symptomless R0 as high as 11 cannot be ruled out, with a symptomless transmission period of several days. By comparison, the R0 for measles (absent vaccination) is 12-18, so a horrific Wuhan symptomless R0 of 11 is within the realm of actual possibility. This is VERY bad news, as the formal CDC guidance on URI’s is that transmission risk is highest with peak symptoms (equating to peak virion shedding)–as was the case with SARS. Not so with Wuhan, reinforcing the public health necessity of strict 14-day quarantine.
KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2020
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Very early on this thread @ #8 I discussed “Antibody therapy [as] another promising, yet overlooked, approach to combating the COVID-19 pandemic.” https://uncommondescent.com/ud-newswatch-highlights/breaking-is-the-1934-bayer-anti-malarial-chloroquine-a-potential-covid-19-breakthrough-treatment/#comment-695579 The LA Times has a recent article “How the blood of coronavirus survivors may protect others from COVID-19,” which makes the point that with “a U.S. vaccine as much as 18 months off and effective treatments still unidentified, some scientists believe that convalescent plasma could provide a bridge to safety.”
As U.S. scientists race to stave off a tidal wave of COVID-19 patients, they are showing renewed interest in a little-known medicine with ancient roots and many modern applications: convalescent plasma. It’s medicine now coursing through the veins of at least 86,690 people in China and elsewhere, all of whom have joined a fraternity of potentially powerful healers. These are people who have been infected with the novel coronavirus and survived. Scientists believe the antibodies generated by these recovered patients’ immune systems will protect them from reinfection, at least for a while… The use of recovered patients to help the sick and not-yet-infected is widespread in modern medicine. Anyone who’s been bitten by a rabid animal, received a bone marrow transplant or given birth to a child has probably received a form of convalescent serum. They’re used to boost the immune response to rabies infection, to protect cancer patients from acquiring the herpes virus during a bone-marrow transplant, and to protect babies from contracting cytomegalovirus from their mothers during childbirth. Convalescent plasma was widely used during the three-year West African Ebola epidemic that ended in 2016, though its effectiveness was not rigorously studied. More recently, it has been used to treat people with Middle East respiratory syndrome, or MERS.
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-03-20/how-blood-from-people-who-survived-covid-19 In my opinion we need to be trying a shot gun approach in which we are looking at a number of different promising approaches and fast tracking testing and approval for the best of them. Again, the therapy discussed in the LA Times provides a bridge to a viable vaccine which by best estimates is over a year off. Convalescent plasma therapy while it does not provide long term immunization like a vaccine it does fight the same way a vaccination does with antibodies. However in this case it’s not your body’s own antibodies but somebody else’s who has already recovered from the disease. The therapy also has the potential to act as a short term prophylactic to protect those who are a risk.john_a_designer
March 22, 2020
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More from WUWT https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/02/10/wuhan-coronavirus-a-wuwt-scientific-commentary/kairosfocus
March 22, 2020
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TF, those who impose a priori evolutionary materialism believe that somehow through natural selection we were programmed with brains capable of mathematics. They fail to demonstrate observed causal adequacy to create required functionally specific complex organisation and/or associated information [FSCO/I henceforward] but if there is only matter and energy in reality, then that programming by blind chance and/or mechanical necessity MUST have happened. This of course is circular but institutional dominance allows getting away with it. Likewise, that this system undermines credibility of mind will be dismissed. As you can see, those beyond the pale who ask questions will normally be dismissed on some handy excuse. Only institutional and even civilisational collapse will force rethinking, as Athens showed. KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2020
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I am asking because mathematics are very useful in our everyday lives and to model this pandemic. - Evolution gave rise to brains with in-built mathematics. - Those mathematics helped H. sapiens to prolongue their lives/ understand their environment. - If they helped us, they were 'beneficial'. - Are mathematics subjected to 'Natural' Selection? Maybe genetic drift? If evolution explains everything, it has to explain mathematics.Truthfreedom
March 22, 2020
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PS: More substance to chew on, on another possibility:
Remdesivir This is a novel antiviral from Gilead that has a somewhat checkered past. It was originally developed for Ebola, where in African trials a few years ago it was shown reasonably safe but not very effective. It did, however, show efficacy against SARS and MERS in vitro. And, importantly, the NEJM reported a positive case outcome in Seattle patient zero under a compassionate use exception. The patient had visited Wuhan, returned to Seattle, began displaying symptoms, and was hospitalized on symptom day 3. By symptom day 8 X-ray showed clear lower respiratory tract viral pneumonia (diagnostic ‘ground glass’) and supplemental oxygen was started. Patient worsened, and intravenous antibiotics were started day 9. Patient worsened (proving viral pneumonia), so attending physicians consulted with FDA then had Gilead rush the experimental drug by air, with intravenous treatment starting day 10. Patient improved in 24 hours, was saved, and has since been discharged. For those interested, there is this NEJM case report providing a very hopeful proof of principle. The reason Gilead tested it against SARS and MERS even though those two episodes died out naturally has to do with Remdesivir’s novel mechanism of action. The ‘drug’ is just an analog of the amino acid adenosine, one of the 20 amino acid (only, in all life on Earth, proving a common genetic ancestor) building blocks the viral polymerase uses to ‘assemble’ new copies of the viral RNA genetic code. The polymerase does not recognize the small difference between adenosine and the analog. Flood an infected cell with enough remdesivir molecules, and the polymerase will eventually grab one and add it to the ‘building’ RNA copy. Remdesivir is enough different that the polymerase is then blocked from adding any more amino acids to the RNA chain, so viral replication halts. Neat very basic molecular genetics provided at a basic science 101 level. What Gilead scientists recognized was that the RNA code for Ebola RNA polymerase was very similar to SARS and MERS RNA polymerase, hence the in vitro testing. And when the Chinese first published the roughly 30,000 base RNA code for Wuhan coronavirus in January, it was evident immediately that it was another good RNA polymerase match, so they started immediate in vitro testing once viral samples were in hand.
kairosfocus
March 22, 2020
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ET, great link from WUWT. Looks like the leading climate change narrative critique blog is showing itself to be a useful source on developing sci-tech issues. So much for "climate denier" rhetoric meant to taint with holocaust denialism. I particularly note the reference on lipid coat, which instantly highlights why good old soap and water are highly effective sanitisers. Things get serious with this on the envisioned mechanism, a twist on the action of Chloroquine in relieving rheumatoid arthritis:
The viral S protein binds to the epithelial cell wall’s angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor. Raising lysosomal pH changes (via indirect enzymatic action) the ‘shape’ of ACE2 enough that the S protein cannot bind to it, thus preventing cell infection. Chloroquine changes the cell ‘lock’ so the viral ‘key’ doesn’t work. Does not undo damage from infected cells, nor prevent an infected person from shedding existing viable virus, but does stop the spread in an infected person’s body—a promising therapeutic for those testing positive.
Notice, too:
the main FDA legal issue (FDCA Act of 1906 as amended) issue is to determine dosing and duration for this new indication. But for starters, the standard RA 250mg once a day generic cheap pill should suffice for emergency use authorization (EUA). As a ‘Big Pharma’ goodwill gesture, today (3/19) Bayer announced it donated 3 million 250mg chloroquine phosphate pills to the US to get started.
That of course carries us back to where the OP begins. And, bonus, we have a clinical suggestion and a note on the main bad side effect retinal damage esp for the over 50's:
the main side affect is retinopathy [vision problems] in 25% of patients over 50 that resolves [slowly] after discontinuation
We have a start point. Let's hope others will take due note from your contribution. KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2020
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@ Seversky, Ed George, Bob O'H, Jim Thibodeau, MatSpirit, Mimus... Where exactly are mathematics in our brains? Everything is the result of evolution processes and 'physical' in nature according to you. Please explain the evolutive origen/ story of mathematics?Truthfreedom
March 22, 2020
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JT, there is a rather obvious and legitimate reason why cruise ships with surges of infectious diseases, including Covid-19, are subject to quarantine. Here, we can ponder two vessels especially, one in Japan, one in California it seems. Over-wrought polarised rhetoric and accusations are unwarranted and tell us much [again] about how you have dealt with issues here at UD. You are, by your own report, a researcher in relevant fields. Why not refocus on the actual focus for this thread, the possibilities for the apparently promising cocktail of drugs, hydrochloroquine + azithromycin; also, other possibilities? That would be a far more constructive thing to do and might even help us feed things through to policymakers in at least my neck of the woods. KF PS: I take it, that you are willing to accept PL's rebalancing on remarks about how Mr Trump allegedly called Covid-19 a hoax. That was manifestly irresponsible reporting by too many supposedly serious media houses. It is part of why their credibility sinks by the day, in a polarised age in which many operate on guilty by accusation.kairosfocus
March 22, 2020
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U/D: I have appended to the OP a graphic of per capita mortality rates, HT PL. While Canada is not in the list, Italy, S Korea, Germany, the UK, Spain and France are. The US is down with Austria as lowest per capita, though the rate doubled in four days. Maybe Canada on Mar 16 and 20 is even better, but the comparatives suggest that the US is indeed doing fairly well on flattening the curve and has been doing so for the past month or so. We can infer this, as with 14 days incubation and 17 days typical from symptom onset to dying, deaths reflect more or less what was going on with infections a month ago and what has been going on with care since. Polarisation against Mr Trump [an international phenomenon] is distorting perception of the US' relative performance, and PL's comparatives to typical annual flu seasons should give us pause before we indulge in overly panicky or polarised rhetoric. At the same time, we should realise that if care facilities and staff are overwhelmed by a surge, death rates will spike and reflect Wuhan and Italy rather than S Korea and Austria. This then brings in the economic and health implications of a linked economic panic. It is possible to trigger far more, displaced deaths if our reaction to the pandemic triggers a serious recession or worse. Those deaths won't be from Covid-19, but from other causes -- typically, chronic complaints -- that economic stringency and hardship or disruptions make it harder to manage. We must make well informed prudence into a watchword. KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2020
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More data points from the resident Never Trumpers. Graphs shaping up.Belfast
March 22, 2020
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South Korea has a lower average age than Italy by about 5 years. Older than the United States, but by about 4 years. South Korea has done a lot of testing for COVID-19 and give a much more honest assessment of the numbers. South Korea has 5,884 infected, with 59 in serious or critical condition listed as active cases. This shows 99% of the people with COVID-19 to have mild to moderate symptoms. The closed cases 2909 discharged and 104 dead. Many of these were before serious testing started. Based on the active cases currently in South Korea, the 99% is a more accurate assessment than what the WHO is claiming. The WHO is basing their 80% on China being an honest country, as they did with COVID-2. South Korea is far more open with their country and their data is open to independent verification. South Korea's raw data shows 3% of total dead, but most of the closed cases happened prior to testing, which artificially inflates the numbers much higher than they actually are. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/BobRyan
March 22, 2020
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Thank you for this that was helpfulAaronS1978
March 22, 2020
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You have to parse through a lot of data to get there. We know the COVID virus, all mutations included, is highly contagious, but not particularly lethal. Most people already have anti-bodies, which is why the WHO's own report says 80% of the people who contract COVID-19 will show mild to moderate symptoms, which means the vast majority of people who contract it will never be tested for it. South Korea is the one doing mass testing and they're the ones showing the low rate of death compared to the flu. China claims the number of about 86,000 people infected, but we also know China's government is less than honest with any information. Wuhan is the 7th largest city in China, with an estimated population of 11,000,000. Considering just how contagious COVID is, it would be impossible to have less than 10,000,000 infected in Wuhan alone. Everyone there goes to the markets and the conditions in China are ripe for transmittal of viruses far worse than COVID, like bird flu. China claims there are just over 3200 dead, which is likely a low number considering the population of China. They most likely have deaths throughout the country they aren't acknowledging are COVID related. Given China's track record, we're probably looking at closer to 30,000 dead with at least 300,000,000 infected. If the rate was as high as the WHO claims it could be (not is), than not even China could hide the numbers. The WHO gave a similar report with COVID-2, SARS, with much the same predictions. The same people susceptible to SARS are susceptible to COVID-19. Just because a virus mutates, does not guarantee more lethality. According to the NCBI, CDC, WHO, they claim as high as 10% of the people who contract the current virus could die, which is exactly what they said about SARS. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3329048/BobRyan
March 22, 2020
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