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The cybernetic contradiction of Darwinism

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In automatic control theory “homeostasis” is defined as the property of a system in which variables are regulated so that internal conditions remain stable and relatively constant. Homeostasis is a fundamental concept in biology because is what allows the life of organisms. In fact, it maintains the stability of the organisms in response to changes in external conditions. The concept of homeostasis is tied to the strictly correlation and interdependence of all systems in a body, i.e. its functional unity. Organisms can live and survive only because are giant cybernetic hierarchical hologramatic macro-systems.

Donald Johnson defines cybernetics as:

… the interdisciplinary study of control systems with feedback. (Programming of Life, Big Mac Publishers 2010)

While Norbert Wiener, about homeostasis, writes:

In the process called homeostasis there is a large set of cases where feedback is applied to physiological phenomena and is absolutely necessary to the continuation of life. […] For our internal organization we must have a large series of automatic controls, and all a series of mechanisms that could sustain the working of a large chemical industrial plant: these are what we call homeostatic mechanisms. (Cybernetics, MIT Press 1961)

As known, basically there are two kinds of feedback: positive and negative. What kind is used in the organisms? The regulation of a single physiological process (example: blood pressure) needs the collaboration of many correlated homeostatic processes with negative feedback. Biological homeostasis necessarily involves countless processes using negative feedback loops. A negative feedback happens when the results of a change act to reduce or counteract it (negative loop gain). Conversely, a positive feedback happens when the results of a change act to increase or ease the change (positive loop gain). When in the organisms, despite all and caused by illness or injury, a positive feedback happens, this produces a risky and uncontrolled ever increasing deviance, leading to disequilibrium and eventually to death. Organisms defend themselves from changes, thanks to an all-pervading homeostatic system that cybernetically self-regulates.

Since regulation and control make sense only in the perspective of what a system must do and what values/constraints its parameters must meet, they are essentially teleological. Regulation, control and guide point to design, not at all to what is unguided as Darwinian evolution. Homeostasis requires a sensor to detect changes, an effector that is able to decrease those changes and a negative feedback loop between the two. These three things necessarily need to be correlated together by an higher direction with a goal, which only design can provide.

That said, a first question to Darwinists comes to mind: if homeostasis grants the stability of organisms, and the organisms are plenty of negative feedback systems counteracting changes, how can Darwinian evolution (= macro changes of organisms) happen in the first place?

But there is another worse question for Darwinists: given evolution wants to change organisms, why evolution created so many negative feedback systems that counteract changes? Why evolution, which is by definition macro variation, created homeostasis, which is robust maintenance of the status quo?

Darwinian evolution should prefer and create systems with positive feedback. In fact, when the loop gain is positive that creates divergence from equilibrium. And what is evolution but “divergence from equilibrium”? Given the pretension of unguided evolution is to have created 500 million extremely different species, evolution should prefer and construct what diversifies, not what maintains equal. Negative feedbacks serve to stabilize systems, not to change them. Homeostatic mechanisms give organisms a strong tendency toward stasis, not toward evolution. Homeostatic mechanisms counter evolution.

Darwin’s feedbacks should be of positive kind and instead organisms are filled with negative feedback systems. Another day, another contradiction of Darwinism. This clear Darwinian contradiction is similar to the contradiction I dealt with about the repair systems in this previous post.

We know in advance what evolutionists object to this reasoning: evolution has nothing to do with homeostatic feedback systems, because they can coexist with evolution, and evolution works at the genetic level, and evolution can create X and non X in the same time, and…

Mind you, how fixity and stability in all major workings of organisms (granted by homeostasis) could be consistent with large variability and diversification (needed by macroevolution)? Evolution “works” at the genetic level but must produce phenotypic results, and at this level we see homeostasis, i.e. stasis = non evolution.

We can add the homeostatic feedback systems to the list of contradictions of Darwinism. This list is already long but it will still lengthen, because – as I like to repeat – when a thing is false, is false from all points of view. We can patiently sit down on the river side to wait for the corpse of this absurd Darwin’s theory to finally sink under the weight of its own contradictions.

Comments
I've been thinking about the use of "sets" and how we have collectively described them here in the post. With each attempting to persuade the other to adopt a particular definition of the set. In considering the case of my marbles as constituents (or elements, representatives) of a set, and reviewing the discussion of my marbles (), I noticed that some are arguing that a marble is itself a set. I don't think that should be the case. While certainly a marble possesses properties by virtue of its being, I don't think we can rightly call a marble a set. I think we must use the definition of a
set as "a collection of distinct entities regarded as a unit, being either individually specified or (more usually) satisfying specified conditions."
I might add that the "distinct entities" could be either concrete or abstract. In accepting this definition, we are required to accept that a set is an abstract concept. Which means that an individual marble is not a set. It is rather a member or element of a set. Such as the "Set of All Colored Marbles" or the "Set of All Blue Marbles". The set itself would be abstract (in sense that it technically can only exist within the confines of the mind), it is just a concept. I think therefore, that we could dispense with a lot of confusion by constraining how we utilize "sets", if we adopt this working definition.ciphertext
January 17, 2014
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Thank you for this enlightening post, now that I've seen the error of my ways I'll be out of you way...wd400
January 16, 2014
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Homeostasis prevents Darwinian UCD- natural selection does too.Joe
January 16, 2014
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Well, Darwinism is in particular those theories of evolution that emphasize the role of natural selection. But what difference does that make to this point? Homeostasis doesn't prevent evolutionary change, be it Darwinian or notwd400
January 16, 2014
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wd400- niwrad is discussing Darwinism, not just mere evolution. And Darwinism is UCD via accumulations of genetic accidents.Joe
January 16, 2014
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Are you serious? In case you are, evolution is change over time. The variation from which that change is made comes from mutations in each new generation.wd400
January 16, 2014
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and when evolution happens? when all individuals are dead?niwrad
January 16, 2014
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We are still left, after all these wasted pixels, where we started. Homeostasis is a process that happens in individuals during their lifetimes. Evolution is not. If you can't grasp this simple point I don't know what the point of this is.wd400
January 16, 2014
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wd400 / 5 = #80 :)
I was trying to understand the original claim that becuase individuals don’t evolve species, which are groups of species, can’t. That can’t be a general law. After all a blue marble is a set of colourless atoms, but it’s still blue.
Your analogy between marble and species doesn't stand up. No one pretends that the atoms of a blue marble are blue. Instead, all pretend that if a species has - say - the wings, there may be at least some individuals with wings. Suppose I come here and say "boys, I found in a forest a new species of pink dogs that have the same echolocation apparatus of bats". You go, explore all the forest, see all the pink dogs but no one has the echolocation apparatus. What would you say? "niwrad, your new species is pink but has no echolocation". Species is not a whole that can have properties different from the properties of its parts (as an airplane that has properties different from those of its components). Species is simply a set or collection of individuals. When we speak of the "properties of a species" we speak of the properties of its individuals. Consider this set of integers: {7, 3, 1, 9, 13}. I say "this set is even". You say "you are crazy, no number is even, how can you speak of even set if all its numbers are odd". Analogously, we cannot say that a species evolved a property if nowhere existed and nowhere exists at least one individual of that species with that property.niwrad
January 16, 2014
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"In other words, rephrasing ciphertext’s example"; not "In other words, rephrasing ciphertext’s"seventrees
January 15, 2014
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The nature of the atoms, and without a stretch, their spatial arrangement (someone correct me if I’m wrong), determines how electrons will be excited by EM waves in order to exhibit a particular colour. In other words, rephrasing ciphertext's,
Set A is the collection of marbles which can exhibit colours. Set A as a whole contains an atomic arrangement which can reflect the colours “Blue”, “Red”, “Green”, “Yellow”. If none of the constitute components (marbles with this ability to exhibit colours) have an atomic arrangement to exhibit pink, then the Set A cannot contain an atomic arrangement that exhibits “Pink”.
It is said small changes in some organisms in the past led to big changes we see now. Using the marble example, it is possible for the marble to become pink if the spatial arrangements of the atoms are changed. One can say it is a small change. But supposing that this marble has some negative feedback which it does not allow this particular small change (the marble getting the pink colour), then this change will never happen. Of course, this example isn’t even good simply because there is no negative feedback in marble. It is just to see if I got niwrad’s post correctly.seventrees
January 15, 2014
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wd400:
I was trying to understand the original claim that becuase individuals don’t evolve species, which are groups of species, can’t.
I explained that to you. You chose to ignore that part of my comment. Also Darwinism demands much more than just a change in allele feequency. It is all about universal common descent via accumulations of genetic accidents. That said, what the OP does is show that that premise is contradicted by “homeostatic systems maintaining the norm”.Joe
January 15, 2014
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Ciphertext, I was trying to understand the original claim that becuase individuals don't evolve species, which are groups of species, can't. That can't be a general law. After all a blue marble is a set of colourless atoms, but it's still blue.wd400
January 15, 2014
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Yes, wd400, individuals, even identical twins, are different from each other. Yes mutations happen. Yes change happens... So you disagree with Nirwrad that physiological homeostasis has anything to do with the plausibility of evolution - since it doesn't prevent mutations from happening?wd400
January 15, 2014
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Re: Post 73 @Roy Ok, so it’s the fallacy of composition instead. I don't believe so, because while he isn't conferring properties contained by the whole onto each of the constituents; he isn't asserting that the whole has a given property either. Rather, he's asserting that the "whole" cannot possess a property that none of the constituents themselves possess. There would be no source for this property available to the greater whole. An example for such a fallacy I've seen is something along the lines of: Atoms have no color. Paint is made of atoms. Paint is therefore colorless. While it is true that atoms (constituents) themselves lack coloration, that cannot be said for the paint (the whole). Re: Post 72 #wd400 It is true that atoms are "colorless". However, my example was explicitly stated as "Set A is the collection of colored marbles." I'm not sure of which set you are attempting to refute in this instance. Are you saying it is possible for a set to contain a property that isn't possessed by any of its constituents (or elements if you prefer)?ciphertext
January 15, 2014
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Yes, wd400, individuals, even identical twins, are different from each other. Yes mutations happen. Yes change happens. It's just that there are factors that regulate that change- ie try to stop or minimize it. IOW evolution is even more gradual and constarined than Darwin could have imagined due to "homeostatic systems maintaining the norm".Joe
January 15, 2014
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Neil #69
The positive feedback is presumably non-linear and controlled so as to not be destructive.
If what you call biological "positive feedback" (and I deny to be a "positive feedback" in its complete sense of global degenerative loop) is controlled, that means an higher homeostatic system is in place to govern that process and maintains stability and functions of the organism. The claim of my post was indeed that the presence of homeostatic systems maintaining the norm always and everywhere disagrees with evolution.niwrad
January 15, 2014
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I think it's a pretty safe assumption that individuals are, in fact, different each other, though?wd400
January 15, 2014
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wd400- If individuals are stable- homeostasis- then they can't pass on any changes because they don't have any to pass on.Joe
January 15, 2014
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Why? This sounds a lot like the fallacy of division. I think niwrad might be correct in this instance, for he isn’t conferring the properties of the species as a whole, on each of the individuals. Rather, he is working in the other direction. If none of the constituent members of a set possess a property (in this instance ability to evolve), then it wouldn’t be possible for the set (species) to contain that property.
Ok, so it's the fallacy of composition instead. RoyRoy
January 15, 2014
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I’m assuming that by “why” you mean “why is it impossible for a set to contain properties that aren’t properties possessed by the constituent members of the set?”. Is that what you mean? Yes. I think it's very obviously untrue. Take your specific example about colour - none of the atoms in a blue marble are blue...wd400
January 15, 2014
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RE: Post 63 @wd400 Why? Neurons can’t think, brains are collections of neurons that can think. I'm assuming that by "why" you mean "why is it impossible for a set to contain properties that aren't properties possessed by the constituent members of the set?". Is that what you mean? RE: Post 66 @wd400 I fail to see how you have refuted my assertion concerning the properties of sets in your post. In your scenario, the set of marbles is still precluded from containing any property not possessed by any of its constituents. Even if you were able to include a marble that could itself emit light at a range of given frequencies, the container set of marbles would still be constrained by the emitted frequencies of that marble. In other words, if the marble could emit all frequencies in the visible light spectrum; and assuming no other constituent marble included ranges such as infrared or ultraviolet; then the set could be said NOT to posses the property of infrared. I agree with you that "properties" mustn't be predefined before they (properties) can be expressed, and certainly not before they can exist. The simple fact that they are a measurable property demands that they exist in the first place! Humans later came along and defined color (or more specifically the divisions in visible light range of the electromagnetic frequency spectrum). However, I do believe that the properties themselves must be created before they can "exist" and thus be measured, let alone defined. The EM spectrum was created (that is came into being), which enabled the possibility of its detection, measurement and subsequent definition.ciphertext
January 15, 2014
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Joe, have you read this post? Nirward is trying to make something out of the fact homeostasis exists. How is the existence of homeostasis, which acts in individuals over their lifetimes, relevant to the plausibility of evolution?wd400
January 15, 2014
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niwrad #10:
The examples you cite are very simple compared to organisms.
Simple examples make for a better illustration of the point. Let's use an even simpler example, the pendulum clock. Those have been around for several hundred years. On each swing of the pendulum, it receives a little positive feedback (a push in the direction of motion). It is not destructive. You are probably thinking of linear feedback. If the amount of positive feedback given were proportional to the length of the swing, you might get a desctructive run-away effect. Instead, the amount of feedback is constant (per swing). This is non-linear controlled positive feedback. If properly done, it is not destructive. Returning to neurons, when a neuron fires, there is an avalanche effect. It seems very likely that is a case of positive feedback, though again, it would be controlled positive feedback. Incidentally, when you are eating, there is positive feedback. As you feel something to bite on, you strongly chomp down. This is occasionally destructive, as when you bite your tongue. To summarize my point: biological systems appear to use both positive and negative feedback. The positive feedback is presumably non-linear and controlled so as to not be destructive.Neil Rickert
January 15, 2014
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wd400:
Individuals don’t evolve in their lifetimes,...
Strawman- no one said individuals evolve in their lifetimes. Natural selection pertains to the individual. Variations occur in individuals. Individuals mate and reproduce. Evolution is all about the genetic turnover of individuals within a population- Mayr WEI.Joe
January 15, 2014
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Nirward, That seems to be wholly unrelated to the question at hand. Homeostasis is something individuals do during their lifetimes. Individuals don't evolve in their lifetimes, so it's very hard to see what the point of this post is.wd400
January 15, 2014
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ciphertext, colours are abstract (just like numbers) and so the marbles can possibly can be any color from any visible light frequency (or mixture). The colour pink is an abstract and that exists exactly like any other color exists as an abstract. That a set of marbles are certain colours now doesn't preclude them from being any other colour unless the physical mechanism that makes them that colour forbids or is biased towards a sub-set of (abstract) colours. That we see marbles as red, green or blue then it is because the marble reflects those frequencies (or subset of frequencies) of light. If it was pink then it would reflect a mixture of red, green and blue. "Pink" is just one possibility out of countless possible colors. With a mutation then the color pink could be expressed. And that's the bit that probably confuses people who think that the properties must be pre-defined by something to exist to be expressed.Lincoln Phipps
January 15, 2014
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Neil #64 The examples you cite are very simple compared to organisms. In a flip-flop unit A output is connected to unit B input and viceversa. This can be seen as a simple loop. Only in certain input situations on certain kinds of flip-flop this may cause oscillation, which is non destructive because finally stabilizes on a certain frequency whose value depends on the values of the transmission delay of the gates. No, the flip-flop doesn't explode :) but, I repeat, this flip-flop loop has nothing to do with a illness emergency situation in a ultra complex system as an organism. To give an idea, cybernetically speaking, a flip-flop is an atom, while an organism is a galaxy. The quartz oscillator is an example of stability. It is indeed used because its frequency is stabile and precise, depending on the resonance value of the crystal. Again no explosion, but nothing of cybernetically meaningful. Differently, brain is of course cybernetically meaningful! All in a healthful brain fortunately is under control of many negative feedback systems. I don't see the normal signaling between neurons per se as a positive feedback. I do see destructive positive feedbacks in certain neurological and psychic diseases. wd400 #63
Neurons can’t think, brains are collections of neurons that can think.
This is a different story, worth of discussion in other threads. What chipertext @62 has explained you very well, better than me, is that if - example - in a population of apes no individual ape becomes a human, you evolutionists cannot say that ape species evolves to human. If in a set of cars zero cars become a F1 bolide, then we cannot speak of car technological evolution toward F1...niwrad
January 14, 2014
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niwrad #10:
Where positive feedback is used in organisms, for organizational purpose?
Again, I am not a biologist. You should ask an expert if you want a definitive answer. When I look at the signaling behavior of neurons, that looks like what one would expect from positive feedback, and not at all like what one would expect from negative feedback.
Positive feedback is divergent from the norm, it tends to destroy functionality.
The operation of a flip-flop, in computers, depends on positive feedback. The computer clock (the oscillator that generates the machine cycles) depends on positive feedback. Yet those components don't self-destruct.Neil Rickert
January 14, 2014
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he is working in the other direction. If none of the constituent members of a set possess a property (in this instance ability to evolve), then it wouldn’t be possible for the set (species) to contain that property Why? Neurons can't think, brains are collections of neurons that can think.wd400
January 14, 2014
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