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L&FP44: What are Self-evident truths [SET’s] and why do they matter?

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A classic case in point of self-evident truth can be seen by splitting our fingers into a two and a three then joining them again — and, sorry, this needs to be hammered home hard as we are cutting across the grain of current education and cultural conditioning.

So, pardon demonstration by undeniable example and re-use of an illustration:

As a bonus, we see another SET that is like unto the first, self-evident, but is subtler. That error exists is not only a massive empirical fact but an undeniable truth. The attempted denial actually supports the Josiah Royce proposition.

By way of Epictetus (c. 180 AD), we can see a third case, SET’s that are first principles of reasoning antecedent to proof and which therefore inescapably pervade our reasoning, including proofs and [attempted] dis-proofs:

DISCOURSES CHAPTER XXV: How is logic necessary?

When someone in [Epictetus’] audience said, Convince me that logic is necessary, he answered: Do you wish me to demonstrate this to you?—Yes.—Well, then, must I use a demonstrative argument?—And when the questioner had agreed to that, Epictetus asked him. How, then, will you know if I impose upon you?—As the man had no answer to give, Epictetus said: Do you see how you yourself admit that all this instruction is necessary, if, without it, you cannot so much as know whether it is necessary or not? [Notice, inescapable, thus self evidently true and antecedent to the inferential reasoning that provides deductive proofs and frameworks, including axiomatic systems and propositional calculus etc. Cf J. C. Wright]

These examples and others that could be brought forward show that SET’s are true, and for one with adequate experience, background and insight to understand, will be seen as necessarily true once understood. That is, the attempted denial is in some way immediately, manifestly absurd so that the certainty of the SET is assured.

Thus, SET’s are objective, warranted to full certainty.

Which makes them suspect to those enamoured with today’s all too common relativism, subjectivism and emotivism. Clearly though if SET’s have been demonstrated — as we saw — then the claim or suggestion that truth is a perception or agreement or feeling regarding an opinion only . . . true to me or to us, that’s all . . . manifestly fails.

Starting with, 2 + 3 = 5 and with, error undeniably exists or that we are undeniably self-aware (conscious) and able to reason responsibly. Illustrating, by contrast with a rock (even one formed into computer hardware!):

However, as the Angelic Doctor long ago noted, having adequate background and inclination to understand and acknowledge the force of a SET can be an issue. Indeed, the case with Epictetus’ interlocutor shows that one may have to be educated to be able to understand a SET. (Recall, we have to be taught basic addition and multiplication facts.)

Epictetus also shows that one might have to be corrected regarding a SET. The silence in response suggests, too, that such correction may not be welcome.

For sure, self-evidence does not mean utterly simple and obvious to one and all.

We may now expand:

SELF-EVIDENT TRUTHS — CHARACTERISTICS:

1] A SET is just that, true, it accurately describes actual states of affairs, e.g. split your fingers on one hand into a 2-cluster and a 3-cluster, then join, you necessarily have a 5-cluster, || + ||| –> ||||| accurately describes a state of affairs.

2] Further, a SET is understandable to anyone of appropriate experience and maturity to have formed the basic concepts and to therefore recognise the sentences expressing it.

3] A SET, is then recognisable as not only true but necessarily and manifestly true given its substance, though of course some may try to evade it or deflect it.

4] That necessity is backed up by a certainty mechanism, specifically that the attempted denial immediately manifests a patent absurdity, not by step by step reduction such as incomensurateness of the side and diagonal of a square, but blatant absurdity manifest on inspection.

5] Where such patent absurdities of denial may come in various forms, e.g.:

– Absurd incoherence or blatant error [ 2 + 3 = 4 X],
– undeniability [E= error exists, ~E is a claim it is error to assert E, so E is undeniable],
– inescapability [Epictetus’ interlocutor who tried to demand a logical proof of the necessity of logic . . . and — yes — the inescapability of appeals to the authority of Ciceronian first duties of reason, even in the face of an ongoing campaign to dismiss and sideline . . . to truth, to right reason, to prudence (including, warrant), to sound conscience, to neighbour, so too to fairness and justice etc . . . where, moral truths are truths regarding states of affairs involving oughtness, i.e. duty — we ought to respect the life, body, freedom and dignity of a young child walking home from school, never mind convenient bushes and dark impulses in our hearts],
– blatant self-referential absurdity [e.g. trying to deny one’s self-aware consciousness and the associated testimony of conscience or crushing of conscience],
– moral absurdity [trying to evade the message of the sadly real world case of a kidnapped, sexually tortured, murdered child]
– etc, there is no end to the rhetoric of evasion.

6] So, SET’s are not private subjective, GIGO-limited, readily dismissible opinions or dubious notions. They are objective and in fact warranted to certainty backed up by patent absurdity on attempted denial. More than objective, they are certainly true, and especially as regards first principles and first duties of right reason, they are inescapably authoritative and antecedent to reasoned thought or argument.

7] Indeed, self-evident first truths and duties of reason are before proof and beyond refutation. The attempt to object or evade, inescapably, implicitly appeals to their authority in attempting to get rhetorical traction, and attempts to prove equally cannot escape their priority, the first truths and duties are part of the fabric of the attempted proof. So, we are duty bound to acknowledge them, to be coherently rational.

Of course, we are always free to choose to be irrational and/or irresponsible. And others are equally free to note the fact and duly reckon the loss of credibility. Where, cheap shot turnabout projections only confirm the loss of credibility.

As a final point, SET’s are relatively rare, so rare in fact that they cannot by themselves frame a worldview or school of thought. So, what we use them as is plumb lines that test our thinking, especially when we are tempted to make a crooked yardstick into our imposed standard for what political correctness, newspeak word magic, agit prop and lawfare call truth, right, rights, tolerance, conspiracy theories, follow the science, X-phobias, facts, knowledge etc. So, pardon another oldie but goodie:

Self-evident truths are important and precious. Let us therefore prize and use them aptly. END

Comments
Vivid said:
“Epistemology precedes ontology (in the order or knowing, not in the order of being.)? Does anyone disagree?
Ontology provides the "what exists" for there to be any knowledge about. One must first have a thing to identify before one can identify it as a thing. What exists (ontology) precedes an knowledge about what exists (epistemology,) even if one's ontological assumptions are subconscious.William J Murray
June 12, 2021
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Sandy, we live in a going concern world and experience degrees of knowing, seeking to understand that knowing. How reliable? Self-evident truths regarding first principles and first duties of reason provide a framework for that. We have been conditioned to think in terms of proofs and empirical facts, but that is not the beginning. First principles and duties of right reason come before that and lend confidence when we do due diligence, or they may highlight limitations, e.g. error exists. Ontology, the core being framework of the world is not obvious, as error-prone creatures, so we need to start with knowledge and work out to what we can know about the fundamental stuff of reality and its roots. By inverting that order and suggesting smuggled in worldview question begging, objectors are undermining knowledge -- including, by way of self-reference -- their own. But if you are in an epistemically weak position . . . e.g, proposing a view that implies grand delusion in our common sense awareness and understanding of our common world, that may rhetorically blunt the force of that weakness. Then, one can push aside the issue as if it were not there. KF PS: The objectors also know or should that when it comes to worldviews there is a going concern world approach that allows us to move beyond question begging, comparative difficulties across factual adequacy, coherence and balanced explanatory power (neither ad hoc nor simplistic). But before that can be done seriously, we need to address knowledge and reasoning. SETs are a key part of that.kairosfocus
June 12, 2021
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StephenB Epistemology precedes ontology (in the order or knowing, not in the order of being.)
True. In our case is about knowing(or pretending to know). Without reason you don't have ontology , I mean you have but you don't have the tool (reason ) to access it,understand it and formulate it and ontology will be under our radar.Sandy
June 12, 2021
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Stephen B “Epistemology precedes ontology (in the order or knowing, not in the order of being.)? Does anyone disagrees? Vividvividbleau
June 11, 2021
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Vivid, please add the proper context to my comment. Epistemology precedes ontology (in the order or knowing, not in the order of being.)StephenB
June 11, 2021
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Stephen B “Epistemology precedes ontology “ Can this be any other way? Im trying to see if there is any common ground to be found in Stephens comment? Just this narrow focus. Does anyone disagree? Vividvividbleau
June 11, 2021
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Kairosfocus:
PS: The refusal to acknowledge the priority and freedom of empirically anchored and self-evident truth opens the door to ideological manipulation and domination,
Exactly right. It is WJM who tries to impose his own ontological assumptions as a means of ruling out rational arguments in principle. He knows that when reason confronts his world view, his world view will lose. That is why he tries to redefine the common meaning of terms - to muddy the debate waters and escape (he hopes) the force of reason.StephenB
June 11, 2021
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SB, the scare quotes on self evidence tell a story, a sad one. I have already spoken to the plumb line role of SET's, as established independent verified -- patent absurdity on attempted denial -- fact that worldviews and arguments or imposed standards alike account to under comparative difficulties. As the OP documents, SETs are real, by direct demonstration of cases. SET's addressing moral government of reason, first duties of reason, appear as pervasive patterns in thought and argument, even objections. KM et al keep ducking or trying to evade that little fact. In 42 above, it is shown that moral truths exist, the Ciceronian first duties are the sort of thing we should expect to see. KFkairosfocus
June 11, 2021
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Karen McMannus;
Yeah, your mere opinion and feeling. That’s the not the point of conversation, however. It orbits around “self-evidence.” Hehe. Keep up.
I am not offering my opinion. I am offering incontestable facts. Epistemology precedes ontology in the order of knowing, but Ontology precedes epistemology in the order of being. The former flows forward from the thinking subject to the the object of the investigation; the latter flows from the object of the investigation back to the thinking subject. When you resort to cynicism and mockery, especially when you use wildly inaccurate and misdescriptive phrases such as "orbits around self-evidence," you show your readers that you have nothing of substance to say. If you mindlessly follow WJM's irrational sophistry, you will continue to make mindless comments like the one you just made.StephenB
June 11, 2021
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PS: The refusal to acknowledge the priority and freedom of empirically anchored and self-evident truth opens the door to ideological manipulation and domination, Newspeak word magic backed by agit prop, lawfare and in the end state terror. 1984 is a satirical warning not an instruction manual -- see what is 2 + 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJz77y4d_JA Notice the implication of crushing duty to truth.kairosfocus
June 11, 2021
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KM, you are spinning SB's point; ontological cart before epistemological horse continues. You know full well that an observed pattern is a start point for knowledge-building and that historically such has changed worldviews over and over again, showing that epistemology based on observation first is sound and not trapped in any one worldview. KFkairosfocus
June 11, 2021
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SB: First, the argument for a moral law is not necessarily (though it could be) the product of an ontological world view, which flows backwards from the object of the investigation to the thinking subject. Yeah, your mere opinion and feeling. That's the not the point of conversation, however. It orbits around "self-evidence." Hehe. Keep up. Again, folks, there is what humans do (descriptive) and what you think humans ought to do (proscriptive based on your feelings and/or commitment to theology.) I implore you to keep those two domains separate. It seems like some of y'all have trouble doing that. With much love, K.Karen McMannus
June 11, 2021
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Anyway God made the moral law in such a way that an immoral human being can have the delusion of escaping moral duty. If he/she wants to...Free will is paramount.Sandy
June 11, 2021
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WJM:
Without God (root of reality) as the agent that holds us accountable, and inescapable outcomes, no existential, inescapable duty can be said to exist. These are ontological conditions. Thus, the idea of such duties are necessarily the product of a particular ontology that contains the necessary conditions for any such duty to exist, much less be revealed or understood as such a duty.
I have answered these objections several times. First, the argument for a moral law is not necessarily (though it could be) the product of an ontological world view, which flows backwards from the object of the investigation to the thinking subject. In KF's case (and mine) It is the product of a epistemological process of apprehending the moral law, which flows forward from the thinking subject to the object of the investigation. In other words, the epistemological process of discovery, which is prior, shapes the the ontological convictions that follow and not the other way around. Ignoring that point does not make it go away. Second, any discussion about the objective moral law is, by definition, a discussion about duties, moral obligations, and moral responsibilities. Again, by definition, to speak of the moral "law" is to speak about what it is morally binding. The ought to component is an essential part of the laws structure. Hence, The moral law cannot be logically separated from its binding nature because that IS its nature - to bind consciences, not just of those who respect it, but also those, like yourself, who militate against it because you would "prefer" that it not be true. In that sense, you have much in common with Marxist revolutionaries, who would "prefer" to overthrow the natural order of things.StephenB
June 11, 2021
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BA, yes, first plausibles that because of self-evident, antecedent, pervasive character are what we have to recognise in order to prove or support. We cannot disprove as the process of argument already embeds. We cannot prove as the proof already embeds. We cannot rationally dismiss, as we land in instant, patent absurdity. However, that last will not stop those who are invested in rejecting such principles from clinging to favoured absurdities. Sometimes that means paradigms shift one funeral at a time. But some need to learn that 1984 was satire, not an instruction manual in the power of newspeak word magic, agit prop, lawfare and state terror. Mr Smith, what is 2 + 2? KFkairosfocus
June 11, 2021
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PS: Where, understanding self evidence in general and as addressing first moral principles, is material. It is also material, in my opinion, to understanding the refusal to attend to compelling evidence of design such as discovering string data structure based 4-state digital code, algorithms and executing molecular nanotech machinery in the heart of cell based life. A sound civilisation would have immediately acknowledged and celebrated the import, the actual history since 1953 is diagnostic of a sick civilisation. There is no short cut that evades defending and renewing the intellectual and moral core of our civilisation. Which, will be contested with sometimes outright ruthless ferocity.kairosfocus
June 11, 2021
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Jerry, the correction is there for record and the grinding attrition is over. At this point, the question of willful obtuseness is on the table. I hate to have to put it in those terms, but that is what we now face. We may freely summarise, HT J C Wright, that we rightly expect honesty, soundness and justice in thought, reasoning, argument, decision and action. Expanding, amenable to framing law through jurisprudence pivoting on duty of justice as coeval with our humanity, we see the Ciceronian first duties. From that we may frame sound civil law and address needed, sound reform. One suspects, those who have enabled the unsound and the rise of lawless ideological oligarchy acting under colour of law, may perceive something that highlights fatal cracks in their supported schemes. But if we are to restore civilisation to soundness, to the first duties we must go. Yes, ends and responsible means. KFkairosfocus
June 11, 2021
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KM, you too are putting the ontological cart before the epistemological, observation-driven horse. The whole province of science -- drummed into us from elementary school on -- pivots on recognising consistent patterns in the midst of data, which may be noisy, so this is not exactly a dubious, idiosyncratic readily dismissed whimsy. It is a massive fact of observation that we show rational, responsible, conscience guided [or at least, prodded] significant freedom. Likewise, we are error prone and struggle with doing what we sense we ought to. Further, it is a readily seen pattern of expectations in reasoning that we find ourselves duty bound to honest, responsible, truth-directed, justice framed thought, argument, deeds. When these are flouted, that alone becomes causus belli so to speak and our quarrelling is almost all about showing the other in the wrong. Where, those who do not fit this pattern, are numb to duty and experience no sound guidance by conscience are rightly regarded as pathological and are often quite dangerous. We find, overall, a pattern of first principles of duty (and see 49 above on objects of duty). The Ciceronian first duties summarise the pattern as manifested even in objections, as has been repeatedly pointed out on cases. These first duties pervade, are antecedent to and govern our rational lives. That is a signature of self evidence. So, onward -- repeat, ONWARD -- we need to live with the ontological issues that raises. KFkairosfocus
June 11, 2021
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f it requires an extensive proof it may be analytically demonstrated but it is not self evident
I posted this a couple times because it actually happened to me in a logic course in graduate school. Except the expression was “intuitively obvious” not self evident.
you are trying to equivocate away
Kf, There is no serious attempt to understand, improve, or correct in what’s going on. It’s all a charade brought on by a few to try and embarrass you. Trying to analyze their nonsense and then respond will just generate new nonsense by them. It’s what they want. They want another 1000 comments that gets nowhere. They are not interested In ontology, epistemology, first principles, self evident truths or Cicero. Nobody could be as dumb as they are so assume otherwise. I would look elsewhere for motivation. Actually towards perverseness.jerry
June 11, 2021
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Folks, please turn down rhetorical voltage, it only helps those who wish to poison, cloud, polarise and distract. KFkairosfocus
June 11, 2021
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KM, you are trying to equivocate away the ought-loaded import of "should," above. However, you did bring out that oughts appear in the context of ends, which can be built in and naturally evident in many cases. Evils undermine, wrench away from or block/frustrate/prevent fulfillment of ends. Duties, foster or express support towards these ends. As I noted but you likely skimmed over, the proper end of a school child on the way home from school had nothing to do with being seized, sexually tortured and murdered to give a few minutes of perverted pleasure to some sicko. Instead, going home to nurturing family and attending school providing education are contrasting goods towards achieving potential. None of this is news to you or any reasonably educated person, so the resistance to acknowledging such becomes manifest and telling. Beyond, it is manifest that your objections, never mind equivocations and evasions, still manifest expectation of our recognition of the legitimate authority of first duties of reason. Enough on old business which by now is repeated for record, the point is that the pattern of our reasoning, including objections shows pervasiveness of first duties of reason. This inescapability is a signature of self-evident first principles, here addressing truths regarding duty. On the self-defeating failure of attempts to deny the reality of such duties, I point to 42 above. KFkairosfocus
June 11, 2021
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FE, if it requires an extensive proof it may be analytically demonstrated but it is not self evident. KFkairosfocus
June 11, 2021
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McClownnus "sit" on a higher moral ground than KF and tell people not to consider that morality as a duty...and is not able to see the irony.Sandy
June 11, 2021
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Barry: The issue is and always has been, does an objective basis exist. No, the issue has been that sans an ontological grounding of a duty, is a putative duty "self-evident" or not? While does KF acknowledge that his philosophy is grounded in his version of the Christian God, he essentially claims this is not a necessary grounding, that the duties are "self-evident" by merely considering human nature, and quotes Cicero (a non-Christian and non-Jew) in an attempt to demonstrate this. There we cry foul. As KF and SB and others have argued there are many good reasons for believing so. Such as? Can any of these reasons be established in an apodictic sense? No, and neither can their negations. We all start with first plausibles, not first certainties, as KF as explained. Not the point of the discussion. As WJM has correctly stated, if the grounding ontology does not contain the "self-evident duty", nothing derived from the grounding is a "self-evident" duty.Karen McMannus
June 11, 2021
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Kf, There is some hope https://twitter.com/DanScavino/status/1402795678640873472jerry
June 11, 2021
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This subject reminds me of an old joke I heard: A math professor begins his lecture with, "It is self evident that X" (X is some starting proposition). A student asks, "but I don't see how that is self evident." The prof moves to another blackboard and after scratching his head for a minute, begins furiously writing equations and logic diagrams. After twenty minutes, he replies, "There you see, it is self evident!"Fasteddious
June 11, 2021
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Sandy: Your message double confirmed me., Okie dokie.Karen McMannus
June 11, 2021
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Karen McClownnus “Mister McClownnus you don’t seem to understand that what you accuse KF, actually you are doing. You should listen to me McClownnus because I tell the truth.”
:) it's not relevant the genre on morality issues . By the way between my quotation mark is what you say.
...No, KF should listen if...
Your message double confirmed me.Sandy
June 11, 2021
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Sandy: “Mister [it's miss not mister] McClownnus you don’t seem to understand that what you accuse KF, actually you are doing. You should listen to me McClownnus because I tell the truth." No, KF should listen if he wants to be consistent and for me to take him seriously. It's not a self-evident intrinsic duty grounded in a (putative) objective ontology. It's merely a prescription related to an outcome. The "should" in, "you should take an aspirin if you want to cure your headache" is not a duty and neither is what I said that you quoted. Hope that helps.Karen McMannus
June 11, 2021
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People who don't agree with KF, just by posting their messages appeal(oh, cosmic irony) to a type of duty they themselves use to reject it . Self defeater. :) McClownnus and WJM have a duty to their ego( or their pleasure or whatever ) and even it's a (morally)wrong type of duty their actions postulates the universality of moral duty because all players in this game of "there is duty , there is not" use a duty.Sandy
June 11, 2021
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