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Science and Human Origins conclusion: It IS possible we came from just two parents

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In a just-published book, Science and Human Origins, Ann Gauger et al took issues with some popular beliefs. Some asked whether their work commits the sin of creationism.

Well, as noted earlier, if it is legitimate to ask whether all life descended from a primordial cell, it is legitimate to ask whether all human life came from two parents. You can call them Adam and Eve or Ada and Evan. Or Geek and Granola..

The principle question is whether the bottle’s neck is so narrow. Here is Gauger et al’s conclusion:

Reconsidering the Evolutionary Story

I chose to look at the HLA-DRB1 story because it seemed to provide the strongest case from population genetics against two first parents. If it were true that we share thirty-two separate lineages of HLA-DRB1 with chimps, it would indeed cause difficulties for an original couple. But as we have seen, the data indicate that it is possible for us to have come from just two first parents.

See also: Breaking: Adam and Eve are scientifically possible

Adam and Eve possible?: Ayala’s contrary claim built in favourable assumptions

Adam and Eve could be real?: Genes’ introns and exons tell different stories here. Who to believe?

Moreover, the data indicate that DNA similarity is not going to be a simple story to unravel. There are already regions of human DNA known to more closely resemble gorilla sequences than chimp sequences.22 Now we have sequences that resemble macaque DNA, a primate not part of the hominid group. Furthermore, when adjacent regions of DNA yield different evolutionary trees, linked to species that diverged well before the putative most recent common ancestor of chimps and humans, something unusual is going on.

This result was a surprise to me, and threw me back into a consideration of the whole story of our common descent from ape-like ancestors. I already knew from my own research that similarity of form or structure was not enough to demonstrate that neo-Darwinian common descent was possible. I knew that genuine protein innovations were beyond the reach of naturalistic processes. I therefore began to re-examine everything
I knew or thought I knew about human origins. I reviewed paleo-anthropology, evolutionary psychology and population genetics research articles, I reviewed popular books and textbooks. I applied strict logic to the story of what would be required for our evolution from great apes.
As a result of all this reading and reflection, although I was always skeptical about the plausibility of human evolution by neo-Darwinian means, I have now come to wonder about the extent of common descent as well.

Currently, neo-Darwinism is the accepted explanation for our origin. It may be, though, that as we continue to investigate our own
genomes, the Darwinian explanation for our similarity with chimps—namely, common descent—will evaporate. We may discover additional features in our genome that defy explanation based on common ancestry. As evidence of common descent’s insufficiency as a theory grows, alternate theories will need to be tested.

But one thing is clear right now: Adam and Eve have not been disproven by science, and those who claim otherwise are misrepresenting the scientific evidence. [emphasis in original]

Note: In this and in previous excerpts, journal reference numbers have been omitted.

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Comments
Joe @ 69
C: We know, as an empirical fact, that small intergenerational changes stack up over many generations when under selective pressure, producing e.g. both chihuahuas and St Bernards from wolves within human history. J: Except we do not know if dogs evolved from wolves. We just assume that is what happened. No one has taken wolves and via artificial selection made a dog. And also for all their phenotypic plasticity the dogs are still dogs.
Well, then, you've conceded my point: that dogs are highly phenotypically plastic, and this is observational evidence that small intergenerational changes stack up over time into much larger changes. I also notice you are ducking and weaving to avoid answering my question about common descent: Can you name any empirically confirmed process that produces two organisms with the same anatomy – other than ordinary reproduction i.e. descent one from the other? i.e. What is the empirically confirmed process by which ‘design’ produces organs and nerves and knits them into a living thing? CheersCLAVDIVS
July 2, 2012
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OK PaulMC- what is the testable hypothesis for humans evolving from knuckle-walkers via accumulations of random mutations? And how do you know that Schulz et al., are not just speculating given the evolutionary scenario? Ya see they cannot provide a history because they were not around so they can only speculate given a certain scenario. But then again you seem to just agree with anything that you like...Joe
July 2, 2012
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Highly relevant to the premise of Science and Human Origins, there is a new themed issue of Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society devoted to the evolution of human cognition. Of particular relevance, Schultz et al. provide a history of the progressive increase in hominin cranial capacity over 3 million years that culminates in the emergence of modern human language only 100,000 years ago. This is massively at odds with Casey Luskin's (Chapter 3) picture of human evolution (that Homo erectus and sapiens hardly differ) and demonstrates that Ann Gauger's (Chapter 5) potential but unevidenced Adam and Eve bottleneck based on HLA-DR (at 4 Mya) cannot have occurred in hominins with a contemporary human language capacity, pre-dating its emergence by minimum of 3.9 million years.paulmc
July 1, 2012
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Chapter 5 of Science and Human Origins, reviewed here. Feel free to pop over and comment. Fear not, I won't tolerate any abusive comments on my blog.paulmc
June 30, 2012
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"Why, one would almost get the impression that it doesn’t matter what the book actually says – he intends to trash it however he can. ;)" But what if God is bad, as Nick fears, Nullasalus? Punishing Adam and Eve wouldn't have been fair. They'd just be a 'chip off the old block'.Axel
June 30, 2012
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Your untestable spewage still do not amount to an argument, for example, that purifying selection exists nor taht the onion test means anything. And mutational fixation appears to be imaginary also- no one can test it. Heck we have experiments with fruit flies that demonstrate mutation fixation does not occur as advertised. Also for gene duplication, well again we have possible future needs to consider. Junk DNA is based on our ignorance alone.Joe
June 30, 2012
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Your double scare quotes still do not amount to an argument against, for example, the mutational load argument (that no more than ~10% of a typical mammalian genome can be under purifying selection because of the deleterious mutation rate). Or the onion test. Or that for mutations where NeS is less than 1, fixation should equal the mutation rate, which effectively ensures the fixing of some duplications of genes and transposable elements in humans. Under that last point, some amount of pseudogene accumulation and Alu repeats are actually unavoidable in small populations.paulmc
June 29, 2012
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paulmc:
That is literally the worst refutation of the junk DNA argument ever conceived.
Seeing that the "junk DNA 'argument'" is quite possibly the worst ever conceived...Joe
June 29, 2012
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Joe
If you want weak arguments try the one that says the majority of our genome is junk. And for more weak arguments people just have to read your review of the book…
Do you ever have anything of substance to add to a discussion? That is literally the worst refutation of the junk DNA argument ever conceived.paulmc
June 29, 2012
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CLAVDIVS:
We know, as an empirical fact, that small intergenerational changes stack up over many generations when under selective pressure, producing e.g. both chihuahuas and St Bernards from wolves within human history.
Except we do not know if dogs evolved from wolves. We just assume that is what happened. No one has taken wolves and via artificial selection made a dog. And also for all their phenotypic plasticity the dogs are still dogs.
The basic problem with this, is that postulating a being capable of producing anything without constraint is not a testable hypothesis.
Nice strawman. No one said the designer didn't have constraints.
Contrast this with evolution theory’s reliance on the observed process of reproduction which, as we are discussing, is highly constrained and thus testable.
Yeah chimps reproduce chimps and that does not help you. So what is the testable hypothesis that knuckle-walkers evolved into upright bipeds? But anyway it is obvious that all you have is to throw father time around as if that is a testable hypothesis...Joe
June 29, 2012
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paulmc- If you want weak arguments try the one that says the majority of our genome is junk. And for more weak arguments people just have to read your review of the book...Joe
June 29, 2012
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I have now reviewed up to and including Chapter 4 of Science and Human Origins, leaving only a formal review of the fifth chapter, which I have already made some comments on in this thread. Chapter 4 deals with junk DNA, and recycles some weak arguments that have been dealt with numerous times before. Enjoy.paulmc
June 28, 2012
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Jon Garvey @ 63
I actually have no beef agsinst common descent, but was looking merely at the strength of your argument as it stands. My use of “identical”, as you ought to have realised, was comparative. I’ve delivered enough babies, operated on enough humans and dissected enough rabbits in the last 40 years to be well aware of generational variation and its usual extent. That extent, though, is a good deal less than the difference between any human and any chimp, wouldn’t you agree? And maybe about the same as that between any two complex hand-made artifacts.
Jon, I agree, of course, that the variation between any two generations is relatively small and this is what you have personally observed. But given that we know life has existed on earth for hundreds of millions of years and the number of extant and extinct species is in the millions, I do not believe examining a couple of species over less than a lifetime is a statistically relevant sample size for assessing the limits (if any) of cumulative intergenerational change over thousands or millions of generations. We know, as an empirical fact, that small intergenerational changes stack up over many generations when under selective pressure, producing e.g. both chihuahuas and St Bernards from wolves within human history. Now, this was the result of intelligent selection and I'm willing to stipulate - just for the sake of this discussion - that life on earth was intelligently designed to evolve. But this stipulation does not change the fact of common descent via normal reproduction and the stacking up of small intergenerational variations. The empirical fossil and genetic records tell us that, whatever method the designer used to guide the process, it certainly involved organisms reproducing in the normal way with variations ramifying out in a branching pattern.
But then if common design weren’t also plausible, it wouldn’t have been the prevailing paradigm over so many more millennia. People concluded that any being capable of making a self-reproducing animal would have no problem produce a variety of them.
The basic problem with this, is that postulating a being capable of producing anything without constraint is not a testable hypothesis. Contrast this with evolution theory's reliance on the observed process of reproduction which, as we are discussing, is highly constrained and thus testable.
So plausibility, though a good basis for forming a hypothesis, doesn’t decide the issue – after all, since we’re being picky, chimps and humans do not have the same anatomy as you unguardedly said – they have somewhat similar anatomy, but differing more than normal reproduction ever produces.
Actually, I said that humans do not have any organs not shared with chimps, and that chimp babies are anatomically more similar to humans than to any other organism, besides, of course, chimps. I believe both of these statements are correct, even to the level of the enervation of the muscles, the regions of the brain, the developmental trajectory of the organs etc.
After all, as you rightly say, the appearance of design is so universal that Dawkins includes it in his popular definition of life – making the implausibility of non-teleological evolution a counterbalance to the plausibility of descent with (large) variation.
My argument is, if we stipulate that evolution is teleological, this stipulation does not contradict common descent. CheersCLAVDIVS
June 28, 2012
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CLAVDIVS:
Biological reproduction does not invariably produce anatomically identical organisms. Instead, there is significant intergenerational variation.
ALL observations demonstrate biological reproduction produces anatomically similar organisms- that is similar to the parents. Humans always give rise to humans.
On the other hand, the ability of living things to self-replicate with variation is empirically demonstrable and in fact well understood.
Chimps always give rise to chimps, prokaryotes always give rise to prokaryotes- sure there is some modification but nothing that supports your claims.Joe
June 28, 2012
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CLAVDIVS:
Of course I can’t refute your opnion Joe, because it’s an opinion not based on any evidence or reasoning – like whether you prefer chocolate or vanilla ice cream.
Opinions are refuted by evidence. And you don't have any that demonstrates a knuckle-walker can evolve into an upright biped.
What is the empirically confirmed process by which ‘design’ produces organs and nerves and knits them into a living thing?
What is the empirically confirmed process by which 'descent with modification' produces organs and nerves and knits them into a living thing?
Biological change over time is empirically confirmed.
Yup and both baraminology and ID are OK with biological change over time. And biological change over time has never been observed to create new body parts and new body plans.
The common ancestry of organisms is an hypothesis that can be statistically tested – not by counting mutations but by characteristing the pattern of mutations.
THAT is just your opinion- and evidence-free opinion.Joe
June 28, 2012
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CLAVDIUS I actually have no beef agsinst common descent, but was looking merely at the strength of your argument as it stands. My use of "identical", as you ought to have realised, was comparative. I've delivered enough babies, operated on enough humans and dissected enough rabbits in the last 40 years to be well aware of generational variation and its usual extent. That extent, though, is a good deal less than the difference between any human and any chimp, wouldn't you agree? And maybe about the same as that between any two complex hand-made artifacts. I've also read enough to know how much variation has been observed in any one species over time, and the limits seen around those changes that temper the plausibility of an ape-human transition somewhat. Interestingly no such constraints limit common design. You can modify a design forever, but eventually run out of options with selective breeding. Nevertheless you're right that common descent is plausible. If it weren't then Darwin's theory would never have achieved its popularity so quickly. But then if common design weren't also plausible, it wouldn't have been the prevailing paradigm over so many more millennia. People concluded that any being capable of making a self-reproducing animal would have no problem produce a variety of them. So plausibility, though a good basis for forming a hypothesis, doesn't decide the issue - after all, since we're being picky, chimps and humans do not have the same anatomy as you unguardedly said - they have somewhat similar anatomy, but differing more than normal reproduction ever produces. After all, as you rightly say, the appearance of design is so universal that Dawkins includes it in his popular definition of life - making the implausibility of non-teleological evolution a counterbalance to the plausibility of descent with (large) variation. Since, therefore, plausibility is clearly in the eye of the beholder, the evidence will have to decide it instead.Jon Garvey
June 28, 2012
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Joe @ 60
C: That’s just your opinion Joe, and its a pretty weak one. J: Excvept it isn’t just mine and I notice that you cannot refute it.
Of course I can't refute your opnion Joe, because it's an opinion not based on any evidence or reasoning - like whether you prefer chocolate or vanilla ice cream.
C: Can you name a single anatomical organ that humans do not share with chimpanzees? J: Both a common design and convergent evolution can explain that.
I'll take that as a 'No'.
C: Can you name any empirically confirmed process that produces two organisms with the same anatomy – other than ordinary reproduction i.e. descent one from the other? J: I just did.
No, you did not name any empirically confirmed process other than ordinary reproduction. What is the empirically confirmed process by which 'design' produces organs and nerves and knits them into a living thing?
C: Based on empirically sound, uniform experience, common descent of humans and chimpanzees is the only reasonable inference. J: Except there aren’t any experiences with such a thing. All YOU have is change and eons of time, not exactly science.
Biological change over time is empirically confirmed. Eons of time are empirically confirmed. That's science.
Is there any math behind your scenario? How many mutations does it take to evolve an upright biped from a knuckle-walker?
Oh my goodness, yes, loads and loads of maths - mostly statistics. The common ancestry of organisms is an hypothesis that can be statistically tested - not by counting mutations but by characteristing the pattern of mutations. CheersCLAVDIVS
June 28, 2012
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Jon Garvey @ 59
C: Can you name any empirically confirmed process that produces two organisms with the same anatomy – other than ordinary reproduction i.e. descent one from the other? J: Now there’s an interesting equivalence here – reproduction observably produces anatomically identical organisms, but not anatomically similar ones. For example, chimps never beget humans or vice versa.
This is incorrect. Biological reproduction does not invariably produce anatomically identical organisms. Instead, there is significant intergenerational variation. Chimp babies are anatomically more similar to humans than to any other organism, besides, of course, chimps. Nonetheless you have a good point that living things have the appearance of being designed and manufactured for a purpose. But we do not have any empirical example of the design skill and manufacturing ability required to produce living things via direct assembly like cars. On the other hand, the ability of living things to self-replicate with variation is empirically demonstrable and in fact well understood. Thus this is the more plausible mechanism for the origin of species. CheersCLAVDIVS
June 28, 2012
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CLAVDIVS:
That’s just your opinion Joe, and its a pretty weak one.
Excvept it isn't just mine and I notice that you cannot refute it.
Can you name a single anatomical organ that humans do not share with chimpanzees?
Both a common design and convergent evolution can explain that.
Can you name any empirically confirmed process that produces two organisms with the same anatomy – other than ordinary reproduction i.e. descent one from the other?
I just did. However no one knows if descent with modification can produce the transformations required.
Based on empirically sound, uniform experience, common descent of humans and chimpanzees is the only reasonable inference.
Except there aren't any experiences with such a thing. All YOU have is change and eons of time, not exactly science. Is there any math behind your scenario? How many mutations does it take to evolve an upright biped from a knuckle-walker?Joe
June 28, 2012
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"Can you name any empirically confirmed process that produces two organisms with the same anatomy – other than ordinary reproduction i.e. descent one from the other?" Now there's an interesting equivalence here - reproduction observably produces anatomically identical organisms, but not anatomically similar ones. For example, chimps never beget humans or vice versa. On the other hand, manufacturing processes often produce similar as well as identical products (eg Toyota produces saloons and sports cars), but aren't observed to produce organisms. So both hypotheses need to be extended to about the same extent in order to explain the variations in life.Jon Garvey
June 28, 2012
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wd400, you asked what ID is against. I answered. Why pretend otherwise now? I think you already know that ID makes a positive inference to design, abductively, based on our current experience with the features of designed things, most notably specified functional and irreducible complexity. So why play coy? Design is the observation that Darwinian evolution is supposed to account for, but cannot; and there are indicia of design - namely sequence specificity in proteins and the DNA that codes for them. That's plenty of positive for anyone whose worldview doesn't overrule design on a technicality.Chance Ratcliff
June 27, 2012
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Joe and Chance Ratcliff, So it's a critique of evolutionary theory, not a theory in its own right?wd400
June 27, 2012
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Joe @ 55
paulmc: On paper, a pluralistic version of ID might be vague enough to be able to absorb universal common descent, but it is clear that in practice this is unpalatable to the authors of the book that is the subject of this thread. Joe: That is because the “evidence” for it is a joke.
That's just your opinion Joe, and its a pretty weak one. Can you name a single anatomical organ that humans do not share with chimpanzees? Can you name any empirically confirmed process that produces two organisms with the same anatomy - other than ordinary reproduction i.e. descent one from the other? Based on empirically sound, uniform experience, common descent of humans and chimpanzees is the only reasonable inference. CheersCLAVDIVS
June 27, 2012
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paulmc:
On paper, a pluralistic version of ID might be vague enough to be able to absorb universal common descent, but it is clear that in practice this is unpalatable to the authors of the book that is the subject of this thread.
That is because the "evidence" for it is a joke. That is the whole point of the book. Only people who want to be related to chimps buy the evidence that we share a common ancestor with them. And yes if religions are true they should have some evidentiary evidence. Newton used science as a way to understand God's Creation. Justice Lewis Powell wrote the following in his concurrence to Edwards v. Aguillard, “(A) decision respecting the subject matter to be taught in public schools does not violate the Establishment Clause simply because the material to be taught ‘happens to coincide or harmonize with the tenets of some or all religions’.” If we don't share a common ancestor with chimps, then so be it. Then next we try to figure out how we did get here.Joe
June 27, 2012
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wd400:
What exactly is ID against. What evidence couldn’t fit into a IDists view of the world?
See comments 51 and 52. Dr Behe put the edge of chance and necessity at two new protein-to-protein binding sites.Joe
June 27, 2012
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Joe, On paper, a pluralistic version of ID might be vague enough to be able to absorb universal common descent, but it is clear that in practice this is unpalatable to the authors of the book that is the subject of this thread. No number of Demski/Meyer/Behe quotes change that. I'll remind you that I did already say that different theorists will have different views as in every field and that what I am talking about is the approach taken by Gauger, Axe and Luskin. Science and Human Origins is published by the Discovery Institute and sets about to disprove common descent especially for humans, and tries to create enough doubt to allow for a literal Adam and Eve. Isn't that curious, when ID is so very neutral about the whole common descent thing? Again, while some pluralistic version of ID might be able to accommodate a common ancestor for humans and chimps, and junk DNA and so on, these authors actively seek to reject these possiblities. They set about creating a case against common descent, and junk DNA, and a large effective population size in humans, with explicitly Christian justifications, while offering no positive evidence for any alternative position. ID can be defined in general terms as a secular enterprise, but it remains, in practice, a vehicle for religious ideas explored by religious people.paulmc
June 27, 2012
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"ID infers design in living systems. This precludes an origin rooted in law and chance. It also challenges the novel generation functionally specific biological novelty in similar fashion." should read, "ID infers design in living systems. This precludes an origin rooted in law and chance. It also challenges the generation of functionally specific biological novelty in similar fashion."Chance Ratcliff
June 27, 2012
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"Joe, What exactly is ID against. What evidence couldn’t fit into a IDists view of the world?"
Same as always: 1) Materialistic origin of life; 2) neo-Darwinian mechanism of RM+NS. ID infers design in living systems. This precludes an origin rooted in law and chance. It also challenges the novel generation functionally specific biological novelty in similar fashion.Chance Ratcliff
June 27, 2012
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Joe, What exactly is ID against. What evidence couldn't fit into a IDists view of the world?wd400
June 27, 2012
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PaulMC- Just because IDists cast doubt on universal common descent, and given the "evidence" everyone should, that does not mean ID is against it: Intelligent Design is NOT Creationism (MAY 2000)
Scott refers to me as an intelligent design "creationist," even though I clearly write in my book Darwin's Black Box (which Scott cites) that I am not a creationist and have no reason to doubt common descent. In fact, my own views fit quite comfortably with the 40% of scientists that Scott acknowledges think "evolution occurred, but was guided by God."- Dr Michael Behe
Dr Behe has repeatedly confirmed he is OK with common ancestry. And he has repeatedly made it clear that ID is an argument against materialistic evolution (see below), ie necessity and chance. Then we have: What is Intelligent Design and What is it Challenging?- a short video featuring Stephen C. Meyer on Intelligent Design. He also makes it clear that ID is not anti-evolution. Next Dembski and Wells weigh in:
The theory of intelligent design (ID) neither requires nor excludes speciation- even speciation by Darwinian mechanisms. ID is sometimes confused with a static view of species, as though species were designed to be immutable. This is a conceptual possibility within ID, but it is not the only possibility. ID precludes neither significant variation within species nor the evolution of new species from earlier forms. Rather, it maintains that there are strict limits to the amount and quality of variations that material mechanisms such as natural selection and random genetic change can alone produce. At the same time, it holds that intelligence is fully capable of supplementing such mechanisms, interacting and influencing the material world, and thereby guiding it into certain physical states to the exclusion of others. To effect such guidance, intelligence must bring novel information to expression inside living forms. Exactly how this happens remains for now an open question, to be answered on the basis of scientific evidence. The point to note, however, is that intelligence can itself be a source of biological novelties that lead to macroevolutionary changes. In this way intelligent design is compatible with speciation. page 109 of "The Design of Life"
and
And that brings us to a true either-or. If the choice between common design and common ancestry is a false either-or, the choice between intelligent design and materialistic evolution is a true either-or. Materialistic evolution does not only embrace common ancestry; it also rejects any real design in the evolutionary process. Intelligent design, by contrast, contends that biological design is real and empirically detectable regardless of whether it occurs within an evolutionary process or in discrete independent stages. The verdict is not yet in, and proponents of intelligent design themselves hold differing views on the extent of the evolutionary interconnectedness of organisms, with some even accepting universal common ancestry (ie Darwin’s great tree of life). Common ancestry in combination with common design can explain the similar features that arise in biology. The real question is whether common ancestry apart from common design- in other words, materialistic evolution- can do so. The evidence of biology increasingly demonstrates that it cannot.- Ibid page 142
And from one more pro-ID book:
Many assume that if common ancestry is true, then the only viable scientific position is Darwinian evolution- in which all organisms are descended from a common ancestor via random mutation and blind selection. Such an assumption is incorrect- Intelligent Design is not necessarily incompatible with common ancestry.- page 217 of “Intelligent Design 101”
Joe
June 27, 2012
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