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A Simple Argument For Intelligent Design

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When I come across a new idea, I like to see if there are any relatively simple and obvious arguments that can be levied for or against it.  When I first came across ID, this is the simple argument I used that validated it – IMO – as a real phenomenon and a valid scientific concept.

Simply put, I know intelligent design exists – humans (at least, if not other animals) employ it.  I use it directly.   I know that intelligent design as humans employ it can (but not always) generate phenomena that are easily discernible as products of intelligent design.  Anyone who argues that a battleship’s combination of directed specificity and/or complexity is not discernible from the complexity found in the materials after an avalanche is either committing intellectual dishonesty or willful self-delusion – even if the avalanche was deliberately caused, and even if the rocks were afterward deliberately rearranged to maintain their haphazard distribution.

Some have argued that we only “recognize” human design, and that such recognition may not translate to the intelligent design of non-human intelligence.  The easy answer to that is that first, we do not always recognize the product of human design. In fact, we often design things to have a natural appearance. That we may not recognize all intelligent design is a given and simply skirts the issue of that which we can recognize.

Second, it is again either delusion or dishonesty to ignore a simple hypothetical exercise: in some cases, were we to find certain kinds of objects/phenomena [edited for clarity] on distant,  uninhabited and otherwise desolate planets, would we be able to infer that such  were most likely specifically designed by intelligent creatures of some sort for some purpose?

Again, the obvious answer to this except in cases of delusion or or dishonesty is “yes”.   Then the question becomes: without a scientifically valid means of making such a determination, how would one be made? Intuition? Common sense? Is the recognizable difference between such artifacts and those that appear to be natural not a quantifiable commodity? If not, how do we go about making the case that something we find on such a planet is not a naturally-occurring phenomena, especially in cases that are not so obvious?  There must be some scientifically-acceptable means of making such a determination – after all, resources committed to research depend upon a proper categorical determination; it would quite wasteful attempting to explain a derelict alien spacecraft in terms of natural processes – time and money better spent trying to reverse engineer the design for practical use and attempting to discern the purpose of its features.

Thus, after we make the determination that said object/phenomenon is the product of intelligent design, our investigatory heuristic is different from what it would be were we to assume the artifact is not intelligently designed.  A scientific, categorical distinction is obviously important in future research.

The idea that there is no discernible or quantifiable difference between some products of ID and what nature produces without it, or that such a determination is irrelevant, is absurd. One might argue that the method by which ID proponents make the differential evaluation between natural and product of ID (FSCI, dFSCI, Irreducible Complexity, Semiotic System) is incorrect or insufficient, but one can hardly argue such a difference doesn’t exist or is not quantifiable in some way, nor can they argue that it makes no difference to the investigation.  One can hardly argue, IMO, that those attempts to scientifically describe that difference are unreasonable, because they obviously point at least in spirit to that which obviously marks the difference.  IMO, the argument cannot be against ID in spirit, but rather only about the best way to scientifically account for the obvious difference between some cases of ID and otherwise naturally-occurring phenomena, whether or not that “best accounting” indicts some phenomena as “product of design” that many would prefer not to be the case.

The only intellectually honest position is to admit ID exists; that there is some way to describe the differential in a scientific sense to make useful categorical distinctions (as “best explanation”), and then to accept without ideological preference when that differential is used to make such a determination.  If the best explanation for biological life is that it was intelligently designed, then so be it; this should be of no more concern to any true scientist than if a determination is made that some object found on a distant planet was intelligently designed, or if a feature on Mars is best explained as the product of water erosion.  To categorically deny ID as a valid, scientific explanatory category (arrowheads?  geometric patterns found via Google Earth? battleships? crop circles? space shuttle? potential alien artifacts?) is ideological absurdity.

Comments
WJM, Pardon. While I understand your basic point, it seems there is a lot of selectively hyperskeptical, dismissive (and, frankly, perhaps willfully obtuse) sniping at the concept and quantification, functionally specific, complex information and associated organisation. Way back, in 1979, the concept was simply put by Wicken (with Orgel as a prior root of the term specified complexity), and as CSI (which in biology is cashed out as function) was brought to quantitative status by Dembski. A lot of sniping and objections that would not have been made if an ideological a priori were not at stake. So, things began to appear far more complex than they really were. Some time ago, in response to the objections being raised by a sock puppet, Torley, Giem and I simplified the Dembski 2005 metric, in the end using a log reduction that showed that what is going on at root is the measure of functionally specific info, beyond a threshold of complexity measured in bits, that makes the blind, unintelligent sampling of the space of possibilities by the available atomic and temporal resources maximally unlikely to hit on clusters of functional configs. (For the 10^57 atoms of our solar system and a typical lifespan estimate, 500 bits is such that the blind sampling is comparable to blindly picking a one-straw sample from a cubical haystack 1,000 light years om the side, as thick as our galaxy. If superposed on our vicinity, it would be obvious that such would reliably yield a strew and that with near certainty. A cosmos scope threshold for 10^80 atoms would be 1,000 bits.) In an expression: Chi_500 = I*S - 500, bits beyond the solar system threshold, where S is a dummy variable that defaults 0 and goes to 1 if there is a positive, objective reason to infer functional specificity, on a case by case basis. That is, it invites investigation to ascertain that.) All sorts of hyperskeptical objections and dismissals have again been made, and what we see above is clearly the Cartesian hyperskeptical error, if I can object I may freely dismiss. Sorry, we are dealing with objective, observable matters and it is patent that with billions of cases in point, the criterion reliably distinguishes separately known design cases from known not-design cases. And attempted counter examples, for years, reliably reduce to design. Reduce, in ways that show that what is at work is determination to rhetorically object and dismiss, not to find out if something works as advertised. For example, the sketches of perceived canals on Mars were plainly designed. Similarly, the suggested 2-d world that spontaneously -- you can't make this up -- makes rods and gears into time telling watches is a designed simulation and neglects what is required to for instance make and mount a functional, meshing set of gears etc on a plate. Likewise the very existence of a more or less well behaved uphill pointing fitness function highlights that most of the space of configs has already been intelligently selected out. And the like. I therefore have come to the conclusion that to the determined objector, the real point is that there is an a priori commitment to not allowing design to be a possibility where it is inconvenient for evolutionary materialism, going so far as to try to redefine science in the teeth of relevant history, phil and the obvious value that science ought to seek the empirical evidence-led truth about our world. That is exactly what I have found in -- cf. here on -- Lewontin, Coyne, the US NAS and NSTA and more. Taking up your avalanche example, way back [maybe seven years back and elsewhere than at UD, cf. the always linked note], the similar case was, such a rock fall spelling out the words, Welcome to Wales. That in turn came from elsewhere, decades ago. Believe it or not, this was dismissed in the very same way. The same obtained for an analysis of assembling a micro-jet out of components in a vat of fluid. The battleship of course is a case of massively complex, functionally specific object, where as I have laid out the specification can be reduced to an equivalent SET OF STRINGS, AS ENGINEERING DRAWINGS ARE STORED IN MEMORY OF A COMPUTER, e.g, for AutoCAD etc. (That, too was objected to and derided!) Just the fire direction control instrumentation would vastly exceed the Chi_500 limit. As for the pile of rocks, complex for sure, but not specific, functioning as a pile of rocks is not exactly a very demanding thing on specificity of configs. And, function depending on close interaction of many parts in proper alignment with the right interfaces is going to put you on the often derided islands of function. A pile of parts does not a functioning car engine make, for example. But that does not prevent any number of dismissive objections to what is both obvious and patently correct. None so blind as one who refuses to see. As for the latest attempt to abuse Occam, let's just say that his point was that hypotheses were not to be multiplied WITHOUT NECESSITY. With all due respect, it seems to me that design is a directly observed phenomenon in the world and any number of things are not reasonable explicable without it. Just so, the real issue is inference on empirically tested, reliable sign. We observe certain phenomena and describe such. We find that here are certain features --FSCO/I -- that strike us and on testing we find that the causally adequate, reliable, observed explanation is design. So, FSCO/I on investigation, is a reliable sign of design and we are entitled epistemologically to confidently trust it, pending the same sort of counter example that would overthrow the laws of thermodynamics. And BTW, this is the same pattern of reasoning that -- with much weaker evidence -- was held to establish much of the conventionally taught reconstruction of the remote past of origins. None such are forthcoming, or else they would have been trumpeted to the highest heavens with great fanfare as the victory of evolutionary materialism. The sort of stunts, antics and outright rudeness, hostility and attacks tot he man we routinely see instead are in turn signs. First, that he above is accurate, we do have signs that we should confidently trust. And, second, there are determined objectors willing to resort to all sorts of means fair or foul to object and to distract or dismiss. The recent series of comments I had to make on what Wikipedia is doing, is a clear case in point, and the sort of sick antics going on at various hate sites that are backed up by enabling behaviour of too many of those who would not themselves stoop to such tactics, tells us just what is going on: ideology, not science. But if it is left to rule by default, dirty game tactics can persuade many. That is why it is indeed important to flag the fallacies, willfully hyperskeptical objections and personal attacks as what hey are. Signs of ideological desperation. KFkairosfocus
January 21, 2013
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Mung: As I explained earlier, acceptance of the supernatural requires a rejection of more or less the totality of Science. This is not very parsimonious, in fact it is about un-parsimonious (spendthrift?) as you can get. (regarding capitalization, I rather like: Science/god. It looks better that way)Graham2
January 21, 2013
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Graham2, I'll begin to take you seriously as an ID critic when you can support your baseless use of Ockham's Razor. Why do you keep avoiding it?Mung
January 20, 2013
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Mung: Im also touched by the way you trip around any mention of the supernatural. If you think ID is not a thinly veiled promotion of God, then you are welcome to your delusions. Eg: you might like to speak to Dembski who has made it clearer than I have. Yes, Ive read the promotional stuff: ID is a process of 'detecting design' etc etc, but in the end I think the wedge document got it right.Graham2
January 20, 2013
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Graham2, The 'ID crowd' does not just blithely turn to the supernatural when seeking an explanation for observed phenomena. In fact, the whole point of the modern ID "movement" is to avoid such an unscientific turn. So not only do you not understand Ockham's Razor, you also don't understand ID. But setting aside for now the latter misunderstanding, are you prepared to address Ockham's Razor? What do you think Ockham's Razor says? Why do you think ID violates Ockham's Razor? [I love how you capitalize science. Touching, really.]Mung
January 20, 2013
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Mung: Im not sure if my reference to the razor was entirely apposite, but in general Im appalled by the readiness of the ID crowd (and others) to blithely accept the supernatural. The idea of an intelligence just floating round in space does such violence to all that we have learnt from Science, that you would have to have some stupendously strong evidence to accept it. I concede that Evolution is asking a lot, but it pales into insignificance next to what you have to swallow to accept the supernatural.Graham2
January 20, 2013
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Graham2: You appeal to Ockham's Razor. When confronted with your ignorance you decline to respond. What gives?Mung
January 20, 2013
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WJM: I honestly have no idea if its possible in principle.Graham2
January 20, 2013
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continuing the thoughts from #52: The guns of a battleship are not there "for the sake of" the battleship. Their purposes is not to help it survive. Their purpose is extrinsic, imposed from outside. So in what sense are the properties of a living organism extrinsic? So forget about living things. The claim appears to be that we can discern between intrinsic and extrinsic properties of an artifact. But to do so how do we identify that it is in fact an artifact?Mung
January 20, 2013
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If we were to look at the intrinsic properties of the materials in a battleship we'd wonder why it did not rapidly sink to the bottom of the ocean. As such, it would be the extrinsic properties which would lead us to think of design. How on earth can this thing float? What are these guns for?Mung
January 20, 2013
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Mung: Have you read Darwin's Black Box WJM: I honestly don’t remember if I have or not. hehe. ok. How about Signature in the Cell? http://www.amazon.com/dp/0743290313 http://www.amazon.com/dp/0061472794 DBB I thought was easily grasped by the layman. I think the point I'd like to make here is that if we [the design community] are going to abandon the biological case for design, as exemplified in DBB and SitC, we may as well return to the ways of Aquinas and the teleological argument from ends (The Fifth Way). Not necessarily a bad thing ... But given the current rejection of teleology in science I think that's a harder row to hoe (though no less important).Mung
January 20, 2013
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KN @ 18 > "in the way that artifacts are" genetic engineering actually goes in and modifies the current "technology" in these living things, such that they behave in new ways, exactly as intended/predicted by the engineers. how much more similar do the artifacts need to be, when they are modifiable by engineering, as engineers would modify man made artifacts?es58
January 20, 2013
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Mung: I honestly don't remember if I have or not.William J Murray
January 20, 2013
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Graham, My question was:
I think the real question is whether or not you agree in principle that there is a quantifiable difference between that which is easily recognizable as product of ID (battleship) and that which appears natural(rock/crystalline formation)? I mean, whether or not you agree that such a method of quantification has been found, and whether or not the various proposed methods have any merit, isn’t it obvious that there is indeed some kind of quantifiable difference between the two – rock/crystalline natural formation & a battleship?
Please note how I couched my question with the disclaimer "whether or not you agree that such a method of quantification has been found, and whether or not the various proposed methods have any merit," To which you answered @34:
My answer was NO, there isnt a quantifiable difference.
Therefore, in the context of my question and disclaimer contained therein, your answer means that whether or not such a method has been found, and whether or not any currently proposed methods have any merit, there is no quantifiable difference, even though the difference is obvious. Which is why I then asked you, @38:
Can you tell me why you believe there is no quantifiable difference, even though you admit the difference is obvious?
To which you responded @ 41, changing your answer to:
Im not saying there isnt a quantifiable difference, just that we havent found it yet.
But I had disclaimed this very thing in my original question. Whether or not we currently have such a method is irrelevant to the question of if the difference is in principle quantifiable. IOW, you changed your answer so that it was non-responsive to my original question. So, again, my question to you is (re-phrasing #23 for brevity): Whether or not we currently have such a method, can the admittedly obvious difference between known ID objects such as battleships and other known, inorganic, presumably natural phenomena in principle be quantified? I'm not asking you if such a method exist, only if one could in principle be developed.William J Murray
January 20, 2013
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KN @ 18 >As for living things, I’ll certainly grant that they are >terribly complex in all sorts of fascinating ways, but >they’re not complex in the way that artifacts are. translation, transcription, layers (and multiple kinds) of error correction to extraordinary levels of fidelity , massive parallelism, massive concurrent processing, code, “command and control” co-ordination, How do you define "in the way that artifacts are" so that these are not "the same"? Are they really not the same in any way?es58
January 20, 2013
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WJM, Have you read Darwin's Black Box?Mung
January 20, 2013
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I think that arguments about biological ID involve mostly intractable ideological commitments on both sides and, as far as laymen are concerned, are largely indecipherable without extensive time and effort commitments. For that reason, I think it is illuminating to simply remove biology from the argument and see what an examination of the glaringly obvious might reveal. Any reasonable onlooker - even a layman - comprehends the obvious categorical difference between a battleship and any other known, inorganic, presumably natural phenomenon - even if they are comprised of the same basic materials. The question is if that categorical difference is in principle subject to quantification - the development of a methodology that can be used to make determinations of provisional "best explanation" at least in some non-obvious or contested cases of potential ID.William J Murray
January 20, 2013
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WJM: See #34.Graham2
January 20, 2013
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Graham2 @41 said:
Im not saying there isnt a quantifiable difference, just that we havent found it yet. Eg: can you quantify the difference between happiness and sadness?
In other words, you still haven't answered my question posed at the end of #23. Will you try and answer that question?William J Murray
January 20, 2013
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Mung: on extrinsic vs intrinsic properties, Do we have to know what the purpose is for a 20 ft, perfectly rectangular plane of 1" thick glass with uniform, beveled edges in order to discern that it is best explained by design? Must we know how it was made, or where it was found and in what environmental conditions? Or am I misunderstanding the application of the term "intrinsic" and "extrinsic"? Are those properties not intrinsic to the object itself? Not intrinsic to glass, but to the object in question?William J Murray
January 20, 2013
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WJM @38: If we could reliably quantify the difference, it would be such an achievement, it wouldnt be confined to the fringes (ID etc), ie: we would all know about it. Im not saying there isnt a quantifiable difference, just that we havent found it yet. Eg: can you quantify the difference between happiness and sadness ?Graham2
January 20, 2013
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Graham2, What is Ockham's Razor and why do you think it's relevant to the OP?Mung
January 20, 2013
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KN @ 18 > I’m just not impressed by the similarities at all. translation, transcription, layers (and multiple kinds) of error correction to extraordinary levels of fidelity , massive parallelism, massive concurrent processing, code, "command and control" co-ordination, some of this seems likes what has been intentionally designed and placed into computers. I'm impressed by the similarity. just that the accomplishments in the bio, for example the degree of overlapping of the code, dwarfs current engineering.es58
January 20, 2013
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Graham2 said @34:
My answer was NO, there isnt a quantifiable difference.
Can you tell me why you believe there is no quantifiable difference, even though you admit the difference is obvious?William J Murray
January 20, 2013
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LarTanner: ID is supposed to be the best explanation for the existence of a battleship. Do you dispute that?William J Murray
January 20, 2013
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KN: can you rephrase #33 without including biological elements, since I purposefully left it out of my argument to avoid this kind of derailment? Do you believe there is no quantifiable difference between the category of phenomena represented by the battleship, and the category of phenomena represented by all known natural-occuring phenomena **excluding** biological phenomena?William J Murray
January 20, 2013
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I’m not making a case about organic life.
Shouldn't you be? In any case, that's partly why I ask about what specifically the ID is supposed to have designed.LarTanner
January 20, 2013
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WJM: This one? ... isn’t it obvious that there is indeed some kind of quantifiable difference ... My answer was NO, there isnt a quantifiable difference. Bleeding obvious maybe, but not quantifiable. Sort of like the difference between emotions, or whatever.Graham2
January 20, 2013
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isn’t it obvious that there is indeed some kind of quantifiable difference between the two – rock/crystalline natural formation & a battleship?
Difference, yes; obvious, yes; quantifiable, I'm not so sure. Here's how I see the difficulty. Suppose we compare (i) a crystalline formation; (ii) a battleship (or car, or whatever); (iii) a bacterium. We can construct the following categories: Category A for (i) and (ii), excluding (iii); Category B for (ii) and (iii), excluding (i); Category C for (i) and (iii), excluding (ii). Now, it seems to me that design theory is committed to the idea that Category B is somehow more intuitive or more obvious than Categories A and C. And to be honest, I really just don't see it.Kantian Naturalist
January 20, 2013
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Are beaver dams natural while human constructed dams are not?
I wouldn't even know how to go about answering this question. In order to address what the question seems to be asking, I would need a large family of concepts, such as "culture," "language," "concepts", "experience," "learning," "innate", "acquired", "rationality," "social cooperation," "practice", "institution", "physical", "mental", and no doubt many more as well.Kantian Naturalist
January 20, 2013
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