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Debunking The Old “There Is No Evidence of God” Canard

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Recently some of our opponents have trotted out the old, long-since debunked, unsupportable universal claim “there is no evidence of God”. Let me illustrate how this is just another emotionally-addicted, rhetorical maxim atheists cling to without any real thought in the matter.

Facts, as defined by Merriam-Webster:

something that truly exists or happens : something that has actual existence : a true piece of information”. According to Wiki, a scientific fact is: an objective and verifiable observation, in contrast with a hypothesis or theory, which is intended to explain or interpret facts.”

Merriam Webster says the evidence is

“something which shows that something else exists or is true”.

Obviously, “something else” is not directly observable as a fact, or else one wouldn’t need evidence for it.

Wiki says that scientific evidence is

That which serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis.

People that claim to “go where the evidence leads” are fundamentally missing the fact that without an interpretive expectation, facts don’t lead anywhere. They are just brute facts that stand alone without any theoretical associations.

Theories explain or interpret facts, describing their place in a contextual framework.  Facts, when thusly interpreted, support or contradict those theories. Facts do not come with interpretations or conceptual frameworks. Interpretations exist in the mind of the individual considering a fact. Without a framework that contextualizes the facts in a system of expectations and meaning, facts are just brute sensory data. Facts don’t “lead” anwhere; they only lead where interpretations, intuition, logic or insight can support and understand them. Language itself categorizes the expression of facts into a systematic framework of expectations.

We expect facts to make sense within a consistent and reliable framework of coherent, causal space-time (an interpretive framework). We expect to find recognizable patterns. We expect our environment to have an understandable quality about it. We expect that we can make models that will not only explain facts, but predict them as well. We replace old models with ones that better explain and predict facts in a practical, useful manner.

What does it mean to say: “There is no evidence of god”, when any number of empirical facts can be interpreted favorably towards the existence of a god as commonly referred to as a supremely intelligent creator of the universe and source of goodness and moral law? Setting aside logical and moral arguments, personal experience, testimony and anecdote (all of which count as forms of evidence as I previously wrote about here), if one has a hypothesis that such a god exists, how can it be reasonable for atheists to claim that no physical facts can be interpreted to support the existence of that kind of god? Of course they can – billions do it every day.

Atheists do not have a copyright on how facts can be reasonably interpreted.  Much of the successful heuristic of modern science was founded entirely upon theistic expectations of a rationally understandable universe, metaphysical laws that governed the universe, and a god that favored elegance, efficiency and beauty.  They often referred to their scientific work as uncovering the mind of God.

Simply put, the atheist interprets certain sets of facts according to the expectation “there is no god”. The theist interprets those facts in light of the hypothesis that there is a god. Just because the atheist doesn’t consider the god hypothesis doesn’t mean that facts cannot be intepreted to support that hypothesis.

Take for instance the fine-tuning facts. Each of those force/material constants are facts. Scores of them appear to be fine-tuned for the existence of a universe that can support life. Take also for instance the advanced nano-technology of living cells. These facts can certainly be supportive of the hypothesis that an intelligent, creative god designed the universe and life. Now, throw in the logical arguments, anecdotes and the testimony of billions of people for thousands of years; it is a blatantly false lie or sheer denial to claim that there is “no” evidence for a god of some sort, when the term “evidence” means, among other things, an interpretation of facts that support a theory or hypothesis.  Evidence can also mean testimony; it can refer to circumstantial or anecdotal evidence; it can refer to logical, rational arguments in support of an assertion.

I’ve come to view many anti-ID advocates as having profound psychological resistance to anything that remotely points to the existence of a god of some sort. This cathexis seems to be a deep-rooted hostility towards the god concept in general that generates an almost hypnotic form of neuro-linguistic programming where they cannot see what is before them, and also leads them to see things that are not there.

Atheists/physicalists often talk about “believing what the evidence dictates”, but fail to understand that “evidence” is an interpretation of facts. Facts don’t “lead” anywhere in and of themselves; they carry with them no conceptual framework that dictates how they “should” fit into any hypothesis or pattern. Even the language by which one describes a fact necessarily frames that fact in a certain conceptual framework that may be counterproductive.

Atheists first preclude “god” from being an acceptable hypothesis, and then say “there is no evidence of god”. Well, Duh. The only way there could be evidence of god is if you first accept it as a hypothesis by which one interprets or explains facts.

“God” is a perfectly good hypothesis for explaining many facts especially in light of supporting testimonial, anecdotal, logical and circumstatial evidences. When an atheist says “there is no evidence for god”, what they are really saying (but are psychologically blind to it) is: There is no god, so there cannot be evidence for it. Their conclusion comes first, and so no evidence – in their mind, irrationally – can exist for that which does not – cannot – exist.

There is evidence that all sorts of things are true or exist; that doesn’t mean they actually exist, or are actually true – just that some facts can be interpreted to support the theory. To claim “there is no evidence for god” is absurd; atheists may not be convinced by the evidence, and they may not interpret the evidence in light of a “god hypothesis”. But to claim it is not evidence at all reveals uncompromising ideological denial. If one cannot even admit that there is evidence of god for those who interpret facts from that hypothesis, they cannot be reasoned with.

Comments
daveS, I think the question is more: Without devolving into Selective Hyper-skepticism, what kind of evidence would you require in order to believe that the likeliness of God's existence has been established to a standard of Moral Certainty, as opposed to Absolute Certainty? Allow me to paste in some comments I made here a while back about Selective Hyper-Skepticism:
Normal skepticism is generally equitable and a good thing. It applies a reasonably consistent demand for warrant across the board before some claim of fact or some argument is accepted. It prevents one from being credulous, but allows one to believe what is reasonable to believe once one has received a reasonable amount of supporting evidence and/or argumentation. There’s obviously some subjectivity here in terms of what one person considers to be a sufficient or reasonable amount of evidence or argumentation vs another, but the typical idea is that one is willing to believe if they’ve received sufficient evidence to bring about Moral Certainty rather than requiring Absolute Certainty. In other words, enough to warrant action or acceptance by a person who is not heavily biased. Conversely, hyper-skepticism (which is certainly not a term we made up … just google it) is virtually never equitable. Rather it is highly selective. Selective Hyper-Skepticism results when one requires a much higher degree of warrant in order to accept things that they prefer weren’t true. It most often comes up when worldview issues are at stake. It’s the application of a double-standard where one demands sufficient evidence to support absolute certainty (which is generally impossible) on certain facts they’d rather not have to believe, but they are willing to accept a much more lax standard of evidence and argumentation on matters of a very similar profile that don’t threaten their worldview. It also happens that someone demonstrating hyper-skepticism on these types of worldview issues often displays hyper-credulity towards arguments and evidence on the matter that is consistent with their own worldview. This isn’t really an accident, because the hyper-skepticism applied on one side of the equation often leaves the person grasping for any contrary evidence or argument at all on the other side of the equation, no matter how implausible or unsubstantiated.
Keep in mind that the saying "exceptional claims require exception evidence" makes for a nice soundbite, but it isn't really true. What is defined as "exceptional" can easily come down to the biases of the one demanding the evidence. Instead, when looking to establish some proposition to a degree of Moral Certainty, the kinds of things we typically want from the proposition is that it is coherent, supported by and consistent with a sufficient degree of evidence given what we could reasonably expect to find if the proposition is true, and, to some significant degree, explains the evidence more fully and plausibly than competing propositions (when one is unburdened by contrary biases) given our knowledge of the cause and effect structure of the universe, such that our doubts, if any, are not genuinely motivated by the inability of the proposition to explain the relevant evidence or by the existence of some other proposition with a similar measure of explanatory power, explanatory scope, and degree of ad hoc-nessHeKS
June 14, 2016
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Andre,
Interpreting DaveS’s comments what he is really saying is that he knows that he can’t know…..
Eh? No, I'm not asserting that I know that I can't know. Maybe tomorrow I will decide that the evidence indicates there is a God.daveS
June 14, 2016
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Interpreting DaveS's comments what he is really saying is that he knows that he can't know..... DaveS the obvious question then is? How do you know?Andre
June 14, 2016
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The root practical meaning of the term "fact", is that it is a 1 to 1 corresponding model. If the police ask for the facts about what happened then they are asking for a 1 to 1 corresponding model of what happened. Agency is categorically a matter of opinion. One cannot make 1 to 1 corresponding models of love or hate, or God the holy spirit. To say there is no evidence for God is misleading. There is indeed no evidence for God, which is because it is a matter of opinion. Only opinion can express the reality of what the agency of a decision is.mohammadnursyamsu
June 14, 2016
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WJM, Completely agree with this. I had actually been considering writing something on this recently but haven't had much time. Here's a brief snippet from something I wrote to someone elsewhere a couple years ago on this subject regarding what it means to say there is evidence for God (which covers, by extension, what it means to say there is evidence for anything)
When I say that there is evidence for God's existence, I do not mean there is absolute proof of God's existence. Rather, I mean that there are facts and states of affairs that we are aware of that, on a reasonable interpretation, make God's existence more probable than it would be if we weren't aware of those facts and states of affairs, or if they happened to be other than they are. I do not say that there can be no other LOGICALLY POSSIBLE explanations for these facts, since that would amount to saying I could prove for a certainty that God exists. I will only claim for the purposes of this discussion that I do not find any potentially competing materialistic explanations of these facts to be obviously better than, or even obviously as good, plausible or parsimonious as, the theological ones.
Good job on the article. People really need to get a proper understanding of what it does and does not mean to say, "There is evidence for X"HeKS
June 14, 2016
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I could best be classified as a weak atheist or an agnostic. Maybe that is because I come from the show me state. I have not seen any convincing evidence for the existance of a god. On the other hand, I have never had any compelling desire to go looking for it.Gordon Cunningham
June 14, 2016
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WJM,
daveS: are you unaware of the logical arguments for the existence of god? Are you unaware of the fine-tuning evidence? Are you unaware of the moral argument for god? Are you unaware of the existence of testimony from hundreds of years and perhaps billions of people, including that of some of the most credible people to ever exist experiences of god? Are you unaware of the deep code & incredible nanotechnology found at the heart of life? Are you actually unaware, daveS? Because it seems, from what you have written, that you are aware of the evidence. Perhaps you are aware of it, but simply choose not to reflect on what it means?
I'm aware of them from outside sources and from discussions here, and have reflected on them. I don't find these lines of evidence to be very convincing, however (especially the logical arguments, I might add). I will look forward to your new thread on the supernatural. I do find that an intriguing topic, although in the end I don't find the case for "supernatural" events to be very compelling.daveS
June 14, 2016
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For a long time now, I've argued that when an atheist says "there is no evidence for the existence of any God or gods" all that really means is that there isn't any data, observation or phenomenon which they take to be evidence for God, which is a very different thing. We are all looking at the same world, the same universe, the same data. But clearly atheists (and agnostics) reach a very different conclusion about what explains what we observe, than do theists. What accounts for the difference is one's worldview. In denying evidence for the existence of God, then, atheists are not denying the existence of the universe, or the data and phenomenon we all observe. Rather they are denying the legitimacy of connecting those observations with the conclusion that God exists...and doing so without any real argument. Disputes about the evidence for God's existence are never about evidence per se, but about what principles and background knowledge are acceptable to warrant connecting observations, data and phenomenon with the conclusion, God exists. Getting any atheist to see that, though, is another matter altogether. It requires them to admit to the presuppositions inherent in their own worldview, which most simply will not do.DonaldM
June 14, 2016
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daveS said;
With all respect, that’s a mere assertion.
No, it's not. I made my case against the rationality of weak atheism on that thread.
And while there are items on your list of evidence for God that deserve to be taken seriously, the PEAR and Scole experiments are no longer in that category.
Those two were at best tangential evidences that supported the existence of god, hardly worth even mentioning here as if any doubt about those experiments significantly matters wrt the sum total, importance and weight of the other evidences I outlined in that thread. Also, there is much more profound and significant evidence for the supernatural and a designing supernatural agency that I'll be presenting shortly in a new thread. However, as I said in that thread, the already detailed evidences for god would be sufficient for any rational person to at least come to the conclusion that there is sufficient evidence to support the belief that it is more likely than not that some sort of god exists. daveS: are you unaware of the logical arguments for the existence of god? Are you unaware of the fine-tuning evidence? Are you unaware of the moral argument for god? Are you unaware of the existence of testimony from hundreds of years and perhaps billions of people, including that of some of the most credible people to ever exist experiences of god? Are you unaware of the deep code & incredible nanotechnology found at the heart of life? Are you actually unaware, daveS? Because it seems, from what you have written, that you are aware of the evidence. Perhaps you are aware of it, but simply choose not to reflect on what it means?William J Murray
June 14, 2016
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WJM,
Then I suggest you read the thread I have now linked to in #3. Weak atheism is not a rationally supportable position when one is informed of the evidence for god.
With all respect, that's a mere assertion. And while there are items on your list of evidence for God that deserve to be taken seriously, the PEAR and Scole experiments are no longer in that category. Edit:
Even if the “weak atheist” is not aware of any compelling evidence for god, he or she must know that we humans are quite limited in what we know, and may often be unaware of mistakes in what we think we know. That means that any categorical claim a “weak” atheist makes about the available evidence he or she is not privy to — that it is not credible or convincing — is again intellectually dishonest because you cannot justifiably make a categorical claim about something you have no knowledge of.
I do agree with this. Perhaps my concept of "weak atheist" is more modest than yours? I merely state that I lack a belief in gods (based on the vidence I know of). I'm not even claiming that there does not actually exist sufficient evidence to conclude that god exists; if there is such, then I'm unaware of it.daveS
June 14, 2016
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daveS @4: Then I suggest you read the thread I have now linked to in #3. Weak atheism is not a rationally supportable position when one is informed of the evidence for god. Often (I'm not saying it's true of you), "weak atheism" or saying "I just lack belief in gods" is, IMO, a rhetorical device employed to avoid the evidence in order to preserve a preferred ideology in the face of substantial evidence to the contrary.William J Murray
June 14, 2016
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WJM@3: Agreed!Truth Will Set You Free
June 14, 2016
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WJM,
Indeed, there is enough to consider strong atheism (assertion that no god exists) an irrational position, and likely enough to even consider weak atheism (the idea that not enough evidence exists for belief) to be intellectually dishonest, as I argued in the linked thread.
I'm a weak atheist in the sense that I lack belief in any gods. I don't know if that means the same thing as your definition, but of course I do not concede to any intellectual dishonesty regarding the matter.daveS
June 14, 2016
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There is an enormous amount of evidence for the existence of at least a classical god (root of existence creator and ground for morality), daveS. Indeed, there is enough to consider strong atheism (assertion that no god exists) an irrational position, and likely enough to even consider weak atheism (the idea that not enough evidence exists for belief) to be intellectually dishonest, as I argued in this prior thread. There is so much evidence for the existence of god and the supernatural, in fact, that to deny it requires an enormous amount of blind faith and outright denial.William J Murray
June 14, 2016
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There is indeed evidence for the existence of God. Accounts of the empty tomb, bible prophecy, even alleged modern-day miracles (e.g., Fátima). The strength of this evidence is open to question, of course.daveS
June 14, 2016
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What we learn from experience depends on the kind of philosophy we bring to experience. --C.S. Lewismike1962
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